665 réponses à ce sujet

[Torax]

Nedpepper, I'm sure your intention was well. But you did point out where Mass Effect had imports work properly and had consequence. If Wrex is dead, you get his brood brother as Clan Leader. If Wrex didn't die, he is the leader. So in this case a character's death can be permanent. All based on imports.

[AlexXIV]

Torax wrote...

Nedpepper, I'm sure your intention was well. But you did point out where Mass Effect had imports work properly and had consequence. If Wrex is dead, you get his brood brother as Clan Leader. If Wrex didn't die, he is the leader. So in this case a character's death can be permanent. All based on imports.

Just that Wrex' death didn't have more consequence than Wrex being dead and replaced by his twin brother with almost equal name.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 04 avril 2011 - 07:43 .

[David Gaider]

DanteCousland wrote...
David could I ask you a question?. Are you happy with how Dragon Age 2 turned out and the reaction it's getting. Also are you allowed to say things off the books or not?.

It's a mixed bag. Obviously I don't like some of the negative reaction-- who would? It's clear the fanbase is very polarized, and while that's not good it's also not altogether unexpected. Beyond that, I'm not really comfortable talking about it at length. There's some fans who seem particularly vengeful, and appear to look on anything that isn't a mea culpa of some kind as us completely ignoring what they see as overwhelmingly negative response (overwhelming in this case, I suppose, meaning any positive response is clearly invalid), which isn't the case either.

I can talk about my opinion, but insofar as a response goes or talking about our future plans, there's a very limited amount that I could say even if I wished to. Our plans will ultimately be up to us to decide, and we'll look to the forums as a source (if not the only source) of feedback for where to go.

Maria Caliban wrote...
I am serious.

Please tell me how Jurassic Park was not a great story.

It's probably because it's popular, and thus cooler to hate.

Not unlike Twilight, and the guy who keeps running around outraged at the very idea that I suggested the romance in Twilight was an interesting point of examination, considering how it clearly touched such a nerve. Since Twilight is considered terrible even by people who've only heard of it, this equates to it having nothing of interest for anyone or any positive qualities... ever... and any suggestion to the contrary is me endorsing it as both a story and a source of good romance.

Only extremes exist in the Internet. There is no middle ground, and nothing to learn even from failure. Perhaps, to these people, there is simply nothing to learn period. Which is probably the saddest commentary I can imagine.

Modifié par David Gaider, 04 avril 2011 - 07:49 .

[NedPepper]

Torax wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...

Maria Caliban are you being serious please tell me your not.

I am serious.

Please tell me how Jurassic Park was not a great story.

Michael Crichton was a respected science fiction author when he died. I've read The Andromeda Strain, Sphere, and Congo, as well as Jurassic Park and they all strike me as excellent novels.

I still wish Hammond died like he did in the book. Instead he lives happily every after. Well also that Ian wasn't fat and balding but still dressed like a biker.

The Lost World, the movie, and The Lost World, the novel are NOTHING alike.  Hammond is dead.  And is Ian still balding and obsessed with black. 

It's not as great as Jurassic Park, (which I think is Crichton's really one great book that is brilliant science fiction), but there's a lot of interesting ideas in The Lost World.  There's none of that awful T-Rex running around in San Diego that was in the movie.  Or the complete lack of...well, a plot.

[NedPepper]

AlexXIV wrote...

Torax wrote...

Nedpepper, I'm sure your intention was well. But you did point out where Mass Effect had imports work properly and had consequence. If Wrex is dead, you get his brood brother as Clan Leader. If Wrex didn't die, he is the leader. So in this case a character's death can be permanent. All based on imports.

Just that Wrex' death didn't have more consequence than Wrex being dead and replaced by his twin brother with almost equal name.

Exactly.  They just found a weaker substitute for Wrex and, IMO,it  takes away from the story a bit...

[AlexXIV]

David Gaider wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...
David could I ask you a question?. Are you happy with how Dragon Age 2 turned out and the reaction it's getting. Also are you allowed to say things off the books or not?.

It's a mixed bag. Obviously I don't like some of the negative reaction-- who would? It's clear the fanbase is very polarized, and while that's not good it's also not altogether unexpected. Beyond that, I'm not really comfortable talking about it at length. There's some fans who seem particularly vengeful, and appear to look on anything that isn't a mea culpa of some kind as us completely ignoring what they see as overwhelmingly negative response (overwhelming in this case, I suppose, meaning any positive response is clearly invalid), which isn't the case either.

I can talk about my opinion, but insofar as a response goes or talking about our future plans, there's a very limited amount that I could say even if I wished to. Our plans will ultimately be up to us to decide, and we'll look to the forums as a source (if not the only source) of feedback for where to go.

I'm always thinking, if I was in your place, I'd just check the raw complaints and not be offended by the tone or whatever. I mean this is the internet and people will be rude. You can see it at youtube comments etc. So I'd just read any complaint, look if the person got a point or not, and then dismiss it or not. Even angry and rude people can have a point. And even nice people can be stupid. Not saying that you should appreciate rude people or something, but a valid critizism is a point in which you could improve, so why disregard it because the guy who posted it is, beside having a point, an a-hole?

I am sometimes thinking you guys take things here too serious. Provocation is a natural part of message boards. I mean if you make a nice thread about a topic that is important to you and nobody reacts, and then make a provocative thread and get lots of posts in it, wouldn't you rather do that then? It's really all about getting attention which is not always a bad thing, especially if you actually have something important to say. Advertisement is not much different from that.

[Darth Krytie]

AlexXIV wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...
David could I ask you a question?. Are you happy with how Dragon Age 2 turned out and the reaction it's getting. Also are you allowed to say things off the books or not?.

It's a mixed bag. Obviously I don't like some of the negative reaction-- who would? It's clear the fanbase is very polarized, and while that's not good it's also not altogether unexpected. Beyond that, I'm not really comfortable talking about it at length. There's some fans who seem particularly vengeful, and appear to look on anything that isn't a mea culpa of some kind as us completely ignoring what they see as overwhelmingly negative response (overwhelming in this case, I suppose, meaning any positive response is clearly invalid), which isn't the case either.

I can talk about my opinion, but insofar as a response goes or talking about our future plans, there's a very limited amount that I could say even if I wished to. Our plans will ultimately be up to us to decide, and we'll look to the forums as a source (if not the only source) of feedback for where to go.

I'm always thinking, if I was in your place, I'd just check the raw complaints and not be offended by the tone or whatever. I mean this is the internet and people will be rude. You can see it at youtube comments etc. So I'd just read any complaint, look if the person got a point or not, and then dismiss it or not. Even angry and rude people can have a point. And even nice people can be stupid. Not saying that you should appreciate rude people or something, but a valid critizism is a point in which you could improve, so why disregard it because the guy who posted it is, beside having a point, an a-hole?

I am sometimes thinking you guys take things here too serious. Provocation is a natural part of message boards. I mean if you make a nice thread about a topic that is important to you and nobody reacts, and then make a provocative thread and get lots of posts in it, wouldn't you rather do that then? It's really all about getting attention which is not always a bad thing, especially if you actually have something important to say. Advertisement is not much different from that.

He does read criticism. Just because he doesn't post "you're right. I effed up" doesn't mean he doesn't read it. He's also bound by contracts and can't just say whatever he wants. He's either an offical or unoffical voice for the company and that makes it so he's not free to just say whatever he wants.

And if you've never written something or created something, I don't think you can understand what it's like to have your baby get evisorated...even if the crit is justified. It's hard seeing something you put your blood, sweat, and tears into getting thrashed...so, more sympathy to Gaider for even being brave enough to scroll the forums.

[Talogrungi]

AlexXIV wrote...

I'm always thinking, if I was in your place, I'd just check the raw complaints and not be offended by the tone or whatever. I mean this is the internet and people will be rude. You can see it at youtube comments etc. So I'd just read any complaint, look if the person got a point or not, and then dismiss it or not. Even angry and rude people can have a point. And even nice people can be stupid. Not saying that you should appreciate rude people or something, but a valid critizism is a point in which you could improve, so why disregard it because the guy who posted it is, beside having a point, an a-hole?

I'd say it's safe to disregard the a-hole on the basis that, if the criticism is valid, it will also be posted by someone who is not an a-hole .. and probably in a much more constructive, useful manner.

[DanteCousland]

Jurrasic park is a "great story" in that to me its entertaining I just find the premise a bit laughable and the dialogue a bit dry but Im not a writer, I stopped english at GCSE level so Im hardly a literary expert. Im just a peon with a strong opinion and an internet connection, the origin of the majority of outspoken *******s on the internet.

Modifié par DanteCousland, 04 avril 2011 - 07:58 .

[AlexXIV]

Talogrungi wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I'm always thinking, if I was in your place, I'd just check the raw complaints and not be offended by the tone or whatever. I mean this is the internet and people will be rude. You can see it at youtube comments etc. So I'd just read any complaint, look if the person got a point or not, and then dismiss it or not. Even angry and rude people can have a point. And even nice people can be stupid. Not saying that you should appreciate rude people or something, but a valid critizism is a point in which you could improve, so why disregard it because the guy who posted it is, beside having a point, an a-hole?

I'd say it's safe to disregard the a-hole on the basis that, if the criticism is valid, it will also be posted by someone who is not an a-hole .. and probably in a much more constructive, useful manner.

Just saying I'd just look at it with a bit more distance. I understand if someone is especially rude you just don't feel like reading on. But mostly even then the point they critizise is mentioned rather early than late. Probably in the topic even.

[_Aine_]

David Gaider wrote...

Not unlike Twilight, and the guy who keeps running around outraged at the very idea that I suggested the romance in Twilight was an interesting point of examination, considering how it clearly touched such a nerve. Since Twilight is considered terrible even by people who've only heard of it, this equates to it having nothing of interest for anyone or any positive qualities... ever... and any suggestion to the contrary is me endorsing it as both a story and a source of good romance.

I read the first Twilight, never saw a single movie though.   The book wasn't *bad* and the author was incredibly good at writing in angsty teen-age sexual tension.  Exquisitely so, I thought.  Of course, I wasn't reading it as a book critic or as a dissertation for Uni either....    But, even if it *were* a bad book, which I don't think it actually is, there could still of course be very valuable things in it worth looking at.  Just as a mass-murderer may open doors for old ladies at the market, or volunteer his time quite sincerely for a cause he believed in.  Value is not something that is an all-or-nothing venture.  And, frankly, those who have to have only the highest quality, highest critiqued books, the hardest difficulty of something...are seeking something to prove to themselves and the world that they measure up, or are somehow better than the rest of us. Over-compensation doesn't just happen with big swords in video games.    

It pleases me to read that both the positive and negative views are being heard and taken into consideration. As fans who truly care about the direction of the game I am fairly certain that we are likely more annoying than useful, but for the great majority of people who spend time here, their hearts are in the right place.  Even the most passionate angry criticisms just mean that they cared about the franchise and story.  

I would hope we could all endeavour to be diplomatic, but on the internet....

Modifié par shantisands, 04 avril 2011 - 08:02 .

[Talogrungi]

AlexXIV wrote...

Talogrungi wrote...

I'd say it's safe to disregard the a-hole on the basis that, if the criticism is valid, it will also be posted by someone who is not an a-hole .. and probably in a much more constructive, useful manner.

Just saying I'd just look at it with a bit more distance. I understand if someone is especially rude you just don't feel like reading on. But mostly even then the point they critizise is mentioned rather early than late. Probably in the topic even.

I see what you're saying, but I'd look at this as a matter of credibility. Who is going to be a more useful resource to you; the a-hole spouting vitriol about an element they didn't like, or the calm and level headed person providing constructive criticism about where/why they felt an element was weak?

Latter every time, I'd say.

[DanteCousland]

I have to disagree with your point about there being no middle ground I just think the most vocal people are on either ends. And I apologise if I came off in quite a "Raging" fashion I was just pointing out what I see as a story flaw which I can now see it isn't - it's just not being expanded upon yet?. Yeh so sorry if I came across like that.

[AlexXIV]

Darth Krytie wrote...

And if you've never written something or created something, I don't think you can understand what it's like to have your baby get evisorated...even if the crit is justified. It's hard seeing something you put your blood, sweat, and tears into getting thrashed...so, more sympathy to Gaider for even being brave enough to scroll the forums.

Well I can understand it. For once it happend and probably will happen to me in the future again. And also because it is not really hard to imagine. I am just saying people here are all strangers, more or less. How could someone who does not know me insult me? Could I feel insulted? Yes. But if I think about it, a person who does not know me could in the best case have a lucky guess or in the worst case just be plain wrong about anything he thinks about me. Or my work for that matter.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 04 avril 2011 - 08:10 .

[DanteCousland]

An eloquent fool is not automatically more worldy compared to the ranting intellect.
David himself said in that anti gay thread that an opinion can be ignorant no matter how well written it is and I assume the same goes for the opposite.

[AlexXIV]

Talogrungi wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Talogrungi wrote...

I'd say it's safe to disregard the a-hole on the basis that, if the criticism is valid, it will also be posted by someone who is not an a-hole .. and probably in a much more constructive, useful manner.

Just saying I'd just look at it with a bit more distance. I understand if someone is especially rude you just don't feel like reading on. But mostly even then the point they critizise is mentioned rather early than late. Probably in the topic even.

I see what you're saying, but I'd look at this as a matter of credibility. Who is going to be a more useful resource to you; the a-hole spouting vitriol about an element they didn't like, or the calm and level headed person providing constructive criticism about where/why they felt an element was weak?

Latter every time, I'd say.

Contructive critizism is hard to give I think. You'd have to know what is possible, their working processes etc. I mean you can make suggestions but what are the chances it will not be impossible or been tried before? At best you can say what you dislike and then leave it to the devs to find a way to improve it or not.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 04 avril 2011 - 08:10 .

[DanteCousland]

I think ive been too hard on the writers perhaps?

[Demx]

David Gaider wrote...

Only extremes exist in the Internet. There is no middle ground, and nothing to learn even from failure. Perhaps, to these people, there is simply nothing to learn period. Which is probably the saddest commentary I can imagine.

Why does this remind me of Anders at the end of the game?

[Talogrungi]

AlexXIV wrote...

Contructive critizism is hard to give I think. You'd have to know what is possible, their work processed etc. I mean you can make suggestions but what are the chances it will not be impossible or been tried before? At best you can say what you dislike and then leave it to the devs to find a way to improve it or not.

We can never do the developers jobs for them, that's pretty much a given .. but I think the most constructive criticism we can give is "why" as well as simply "what".

I can say that I didn't like the recycling of DA2's dungeon maps, but doing so doesn't give the developers anything but a vague indication of my preference. By clarifying "why" I didn't like them, (because they were repetitive and the recycling was highly noticeable) I can help the developers narrow down exactly where I felt let down by the game. They can then determine whether my complaint is valid and (collectively) how best to improve in the future.

[AlexXIV]

Siradix wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Only extremes exist in the Internet. There is no middle ground, and nothing to learn even from failure. Perhaps, to these people, there is simply nothing to learn period. Which is probably the saddest commentary I can imagine.

Why does this remind me of Anders at the end of the game?

Well because of the fact that people like extremes, because they probably possess more conflict potential and thus are more interesting. So middle ground choices are usually the boring ones.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 04 avril 2011 - 08:25 .

[DanteCousland]

Siradix wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Only extremes exist in the Internet. There is no middle ground, and nothing to learn even from failure. Perhaps, to these people, there is simply nothing to learn period. Which is probably the saddest commentary I can imagine.

Why does this remind me of Anders at the end of the game?

Hahah thats so true, didn't realise that 'till you pointed it out.

[fantasypisces]

David Gaider wrote...

Only extremes exist in the Internet. There is no middle ground, and nothing to learn even from failure. Perhaps, to these people, there is simply nothing to learn period. Which is probably the saddest commentary I can imagine.

I would like to think I am more a middle ground person 

Or at least I'm in the camp where I liked Dragon Age 2, I thought it was a good game and vastly superior to many other games out there, but at the same time I still feel Origins is better as a whole because of points A,B,C, etc.

At the same time, DA2 did a good many things better than origins and so if the design team can improve on some stuff then DA3 would be amazing.

But, if we are speaking in generalizations, then I guess you are right 

[Redneck1st]

Over all I'll have to admit that David Gaider and his team did a pretty good job with DA2. True not everyone out there is going to like every aspect of any game or anything else for that matter. What one might like other in fact might hate.

Loved the party banter and the off the wall comments for which some of the NPC's made some of them had me LOL! As for the game as a whole the graphics were lots better. I loved what they did with the mages I thought that they were even better and have even consider a play through with a mage and I don't normally care for running them as a PC.

Miss the fact that a warrior couldn't dual wield which I loved in DAO and hopefully if there is a DA3 they will go back to allowing for this here.

As for the over all game never once had the game crash or freeze up on me the whole time for which I ran through it with my Warrior big plus there especially with the high end pc for which I'm running.

Two major glitches for which I found in the game Merril's final quest and the fact of the items that allow for mana/stamina and health regeneration don't seem to work at all whether you are using an equipped item like Monolith's armor or the upgrade to the devour under the Reaver spec.

Other than that I really like the game no matter what some of the others think of it. There is another one for which I've played The Witcher that don't have the party banter or party interaction for which the DA franchise has in their games. One of the reasons I'm not a full out fan of that one there.

[scpulley]

David Gaider wrote...

It is, however, our perogative... and that is "our" and not just mine. I am the Lead Writer but I do not dictate everything about what a story will be. I know it is difficult for some to picture, but writing for a game is not like writing for a book. The story is only one element of a game and must work hand-in-hand with, and sometimes subservient to, the needs of other departments and their available resources. Pointing this out is not meant as arrogance, and I'd go so far as to suggest the only reason to suggest it's such is out of resentment... whether it's against me personally, the company or our decisions. Which is too bad.

And that right there is why I don't really look at DA 2 and immediately point blame at anyone in particular. I may have had some strong words about making claiming to 'save the RPG' others working for Bioware have said, but in terms of the writing, i don't think it was nessisarily a writing or story issue with the game per say. The concepts were there, there just were limits to how much could come out. You definately feel like you are missing chunks, that probably, if they had been explained more fully, or more connection between Hawke and the events he was wrapped up in occured things would be better. I'm not sure I'd say that falls under writing as much as allocation of resources to actually put that written scene into the game. I just hope you guys allocate more resources next time to adding those personal touches in game, not just a very brief codex entry, so people have some connection emotionally to the story.

[AlexXIV]

They probably did a pretty good job considering the time they had. I mean running 100 meters may not seem like a big thing, but doing it in 9 seconds is. Just sayin'.