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[AlexXIV]

Well they have no horses, so they have to walk all the time. It can be quite time consuming.

[Gadarr]

Lithuasil wrote...

That's not what I meant. Afaik, the warden is out for 'a couple of days', then manages to reach lothering just ahead of the blight since the village gets destroyed the moment you leave. But the darkspawn never move past that.
Now, Ferelden isn't that big, and none of the things the warden does actually take much time. If we assume, the darkspawn all walk backwards, hopping on one leg, and there's some offscreen resistance, having the blight take like two month between Ostagar and Denerim might just so slide, without completely shattering the willing suspension of disbilief. Anything beyond that, is plain ridiculous.

I suppose burning every square meter of the region takes time, especially if you've got to carry wagonloads full of dust from... somewhere to achieve what we see in DA2!

Think of it as them building their darkspawn recreation center.

[Aradace]

You know what? I finally had my fill of DA2 today. Dont get me wrong, I like the game and all but, much like Fallout: New Vegas, I finally had enough of all the bugs, glitches, companion bugs, quest bugs, etc. and decided to say f*** it, Im done with this piece of crap until BioWare decides to get off of their arses and release a patch for the console versions of the game. The bad news is, I never got back around to playing NV again because even with the latest patch, it doesnt fix ANY of the crashes and other crap wrong with the game.

Translation: Im not holding my breath on BioWare releasing a console version patch anytime soon. And when the do, it'll probably be with some DLC. And youll only be able to get said patch if you pay the $7 for the DLC. That's a bit of a stretch I know but being my luck, that's what will happen. And were that the scenario, guess who has two thumbs and wont be paying for a patch that should have been released during the game's first week of release? This guy lol

Seriously though, the game isnt bad in itself, it's just all the bugs and other bs that made me start having flashbacks of NV. And until it's fixed, I just cant bring myself to play the game anymore. So, as of this moment, count me on the side of the "haters" until we finally get a patch.

[Lithuasil]

Given they have a wagon, I think we can assume they store the horses in the same place they store the armies gathered. (The exact same spot, where the enemies keep their reinforcements in DA2)
And Loghain made it from lake Calenhad to Denerim in two days by horse. But even if we assume the darkspawn terraform every inch of land in to mordor - as long as they take less then six month to do so, we have no problem - amaranthine can happen six month after the blight ended, and anders still has a week or two to leg it from the wardens.

[AlexXIV]

Lithuasil wrote...

Given they have a wagon, I think we can assume they store the horses in the same place they store the armies gathered. (The exact same spot, where the enemies keep their reinforcements in DA2)
And Loghain made it from lake Calenhad to Denerim in two days by horse. But even if we assume the darkspawn terraform every inch of land in to mordor - as long as they take less then six month to do so, we have no problem - amaranthine can happen six month after the blight ended, and anders still has a week or two to leg it from the wardens.

Well then what keeps Bioware to clear it up? I thought one year was too long to fight the Blight also. But probably killing off a blight in a manner of weeks doesn't really match with the lore in which blights are supposed to last decades, if not centuries ...

[Lithuasil]

It can match up easily - we just usually assume the blight started with ostagar. If the events in orgins took, say, four month, and the first Grey warden had bad dreams and called it a blight, eight month earlier, with a few month for the darkspawn to make it topside, and another few of battling in the corcari wilderness, there's a year right there.

[AlexXIV]

Lithuasil wrote...

It can match up easily - we just usually assume the blight started with ostagar. If the events in orgins took, say, four month, and the first Grey warden had bad dreams and called it a blight, eight month earlier, with a few month for the darkspawn to make it topside, and another few of battling in the corcari wilderness, there's a year right there.

Well you meet Wynne at Ostagar. And she comments it has almost been a year. Since Ostagar. So the general assumption is that the Blight lasted a year. And I think there is official word on it too. I'd have to search for it though since I couldn't say where I know it from from the top of my head.

[Lithuasil]

Wynne is senile. And dead

[AlexXIV]

Lithuasil wrote...

Wynne is senile. And dead

But then my Warden should have had a dialogue choice 'Wynne, you're senile. It has only been a couple of weeks.'

[Lithuasil]

Your warden is mute

[ZombiePowered]

Alexander1136 wrote...

ZombiePowered wrote...

In response to Leliana's miraculous revival, don't your companions get "killed" all the time? It isn't so unbelievable that in the final resting place of Andraste's ashes--a place clearly touched by extremely powerful magic, that a faithful servant of the Maker murdered in defense of his bride's remains wouldn't survive a stabbing. And yes, she may have been decapitated in your game, but can you seriously expect Bioware to change important parts of the Dragon Age story based on whether or not your game triggered a special death animation?

Well actually they get knocked unconscious... and dont you need the ashes plus a ritual hence the mage present at the arls side holding his hands up. I personally think that bioware felt that a majority of people didnt kill leliana and they wanted to use her again understandable and respectable for bringing back a loved character, i would like to see some explanation for if you did kill her, maybe you also just knocked her out.

Honestly with the amount of cracked skulls she got in my game I'm surprised she wasn't brain-damaged by the end.

[sth128]

Actually, with the possible exception of Sandal in Witch Hunt, the time line works.

Beginning from the actual destruction of Lothering, this is when Hawke and family escaped Lothering. This will be our zero point for counting.

Between the rest of the events of Origin and Awakening, roughly 16 months have passed (6 months for Origins, 6 months waiting, 4 months for Awakening).

Meanwhile, Hawke was on the run for let's say 1 month, at which point Flemth showed up and they got on a boat for a couple months to get to Kirkwall (that's assuming Kirkwall is that close). Hawke then spends an entire year (that's 12 months) working off his debt. Now allow 3 months break time for Hawke (he just got out of indentured servitude after all), the total comes up to... 18 months!

So they talk about getting ready for the expedition, Hawke spends a couple of months getting the 50 gold, then sets off to find Anders for the map. This gives Anders 4 months to get away from the battle at the end of Awakenings and escape to Kirkwall.

Now for Sandal. Sandal shows up more than 2 and half years after fall of the archdemon (according to DA Wiki), Because Anders shows up right after the end of Awakening before the Deep Roads expedition, we'll equate them for simplicity.

As I stated before, the events after Origins took 10 months (6 waiting, 4 fighting). 2 and half years is 30 months, that means 20 months after Anders shows up in Kirkwall, Sandal appears somewhere else.

Assuming the expedition took about 3 months (again, rough estimate), Hawke wanders aimlessly in Kirkwall for a year and half until the end of Act II when Kirkwall is turned into a war zone. At this time, the Templars help most of the Kirwall civilians escape (cause those horny dudes be raping everybody out here) along with Sandal. At which point he meets the Hero of Feralden for some Enchantment?.

After the battle of Kirkwall ended, Sandal and his dad returns to again work for the Champion of Kirkwall.

[renegadeV8]

Before I criticise it I want to say DA2 is a fantastic game, especially the themes, the art style and the Qunari.
But.....
It really didn't make any sense to me why Orsino transforms out of desperation when I'd sided with him, there were no templars around at that point and my party were the only ones he attacked. (weak storytelling?)
I didn't feel like I'd been shown any motive for why he'd helped Quentin research blood magic either, up until that twist he'd completely given me the impression he was doing things honestly. (just a minor issue)

I'm also a bit confused about the 'gone like the warden' line and the way it's implied the seekers have been looking for the warden as well as Hawke. I imported an Origins (with no DLC) save where my Dalish Warden died to kill the archdemon. Merill talks about her as though she's dead but Leliana and Cassandra on the other hand act as though my Warden lived.
 (Is that a plot hole or just a glitch?)

Modifié par renegadeV8, 31 mars 2011 - 09:58 .

[Lord Gremlin]

Lithuasil wrote...

Wynne is senile. And dead

This. However the truth of the matter is she's been killed by Bioware, because she uncovered a plot hole.

Beware, people. Laidlaw is watching us...

[Wulfram]

I'm also a bit confused about the 'gone like the warden' line and the way it's implied the seekers have been looking for the warden as well as Hawke. I imported an Origins (with no DLC) save where my Dalish Warden died to kill the archdemon and Merill seems to be aware of that but Leliana and Cassandra talk as though the Warden lived.

That's presumably the Orlesian Warden Commander who comes in for Awakening if there's no Hero of Ferelden available - you're right the game doesn't do a very good job of establishing, though.

[Ziggeh]

What an incredibly wierd definition of a plot hole. "Inconsequential timing is inconsistent if we make some assumptions that render it so."

[David Gaider]

Maria Caliban wrote...
No clue. My favorite so far is the thread addressed to David that complains about companion inventory being static.

I read that Jennifer ruined combat in the game because she's not a fan of combat, despite having nothing whatsoever to do with that part of the game.

As for me, speaking on the forums evidently makes me in charge of everything that goes into the game, and I get to write whatever takes my fancy. Because this is how game development works, didn't you know?

DanteCousland wrote...
Contray to your popular beleif of
peop;e crying plothole whenever they see something they either "Don't
understand or don't like"  that doesn't mean that Dragon Age 2 isn't
riddled with some very big story flaws. Namely Plotholes and retcons.

And? I said that people often misuse the term "cliffhangers" as much as they do "plot hole" and "cliche"... because they do. That doesn't mean that everyone does so, or that they're always wrong.

Lelianas Miraculous revival.
Yes you can do it, it's your game but for those who killed her it makes
no sense and before yoyu go "But you was in a room full of magic dust
L0L" let me mention she only turns on you if you DESTROY the ashes and
take what you want for Eamon...Also when I killed her i did a
decapitation move on her, pretty sure it's tricky to heal that.

I don't think we've offered any kind of explanation regarding Leliana yet.

The
Timing doesn't add up. It takes only a small amount of common sense to
realise that when you arrive at Kirkwall the events of Awakening should
be happening. DAA BEGAN 6 months after origins. Yet you meet Anders and
Sandal 1 year and the maxinum of 2-3 months (although 2-3 months is a
stretch for the flight from ostagar/ lothering to 2 weeks on a ship and 4
days in the gallows...)... This isn't even mentioning Sandal being in
Witch Hunt which was 6 months or soafte awakening correct, by then he is
definitely in Kirkwall.

I'll just kindly point out that your assumption of how much time passed in Awakening, when there's nothing in the game that suggests anything more than the 6 months between Origin's end and Awakening's start, does not constitute a plot hole. Merely an erroneous assumption on your part.

But feel free to prove my point.

As for whether or not you or anyone else thinks that good storytelling is involved, I simply said that I understood the origin of the complaints even if not the conclusion drawn. I'm not passing judgement on someone's opinion. If you don't like something, I'm sure the technicality of whether or not it's a cliffhanger or plot hole is unimportant-- but as someone who uses words for a living I feel compelled to point out when they're abused. That said, any reasonable feedback is welcome.

Modifié par David Gaider, 31 mars 2011 - 10:04 .

[Lithuasil]

David Gaider wrote...
As for me, speaking on the forums evidently makes me in charge of everything that goes into the game, and I get to write whatever takes my fancy. Because this is how game development works, didn't you know?

That explains a lot really

[Aradace]

David Gaider wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
No clue. My favorite so far is the thread addressed to David that complains about companion inventory being static.

I read that Jennifer ruined combat in the game because she's not a fan of combat, despite having nothing whatsoever to do with that part of the game.

As for me, speaking on the forums evidently makes me in charge of everything that goes into the game, and I get to write whatever takes my fancy. Because this is how game development works, didn't you know?

To the void with that, what I want to know is when you guys plan on releasing a console version patch?  Reason Im asking is because if the rumors are true that you guys arent, that way I can go ahead and sell my copy of DA2 to gamestop for some other poor schmuck to buy off the bargain bin

[Psycoman2]

They cant possibly account for all the things you could have done in origins. Get over it.
While they say there is no cannon, we all know thats not true.

This is the general cannon for origins, like it or not.
The warden was generally good (which means he did not kill any companions)
He did the dark ritual with morrigan and disappeared looking for her.

If this does not match your version of the lore, well tough luck.

[John Epler]

Aradace wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
No clue. My favorite so far is the thread addressed to David that complains about companion inventory being static.

I read that Jennifer ruined combat in the game because she's not a fan of combat, despite having nothing whatsoever to do with that part of the game.

As for me, speaking on the forums evidently makes me in charge of everything that goes into the game, and I get to write whatever takes my fancy. Because this is how game development works, didn't you know?

To the void with that, what I want to know is when you guys plan on releasing a console version patch?  Reason Im asking is because if the rumors are true that you guys arent, that way I can go ahead and sell my copy of DA2 to gamestop for some other poor schmuck to buy off the bargain bin

I'm not in any way involved with the patch team, but here's the latest word.

[1Nosphorus1]

David Gaider wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
No clue. My favorite so far is the thread addressed to David that complains about companion inventory being static.

I read that Jennifer ruined combat in the game because she's not a fan of combat, despite having nothing whatsoever to do with that part of the game.

As for me, speaking on the forums evidently makes me in charge of everything that goes into the game, and I get to write whatever takes my fancy. Because this is how game development works, didn't you know?

So you do know or don't know?

[Lord Gremlin]

Aradace wrote...

To the void with that, what I want to know is when you guys plan on releasing a console version patch? Reason Im asking is because if the rumors are true that you guys arent, that way I can go ahead and sell my copy of DA2 to gamestop for some other poor schmuck to buy off the bargain bin

Dude, save that for tech support forum. They definitely will release a patch, no idea when, but I've already got myself Yakuza 4, 100-150 hours of gameplay, a month of wait easily. Do the same thing, maybe?

And plot holes can't really be patched. They can be addressed in an expansion though, if said expansion features really good writing.
"Wink, wink." Expansion. Really well written. Please?

[Aradace]

appreciate the link. Not much info atm but at least someone is working on it.

[Lord Gremlin]

Psycoman2 wrote...

They cant possibly account for all the things you could have done in origins. Get over it.
While they say there is no cannon, we all know thats not true.

This is the general cannon for origins, like it or not.
The warden was generally good (which means he did not kill any companions)
He did the dark ritual with morrigan and disappeared looking for her.

If this does not match your version of the lore, well tough luck.

My Warden killed Wynne - no Wynne in Awakening. Killed Zevran - no Zevran in DA2. I understnd that I got lucky, but so far my "canon" story is treated nicely, no bugs encountered. I mean - no import bugs.
And my canon Warden was... A very bad, selfish and greedy person. I simply miss the opportunity to be Jade Empire level bad. Thought DA2 would provide it, alas... Just let me roleplay a really evil blood mage already. Maybe allow us having a pet pride demon, I'd call mine Dribbles. Better than dog anyhow, although much larger.


BTW... Do demons poop? In mortal world? I mean, even a small pet can make a mess...