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[Lord_Valandil]

Noatz wrote...
And you're the one spouting useless generalisations so don't tell me to not tell you about deficient argumentation.

And of course the options are there, they have every right to be. I just find it amusing that its the people who do the stupid things in game are also the ones saying stupid things on the forum.

I need to heal this Arl to unite Ferelden against the blight. This urn of Sacred Ashes of Sacred Ashes should do it. NO I HAVE A BETTER IDEA! LETS DEFILE IT! Oh the devout Andrastian companion I brought along is going to fight me over it. Who knew?

Oh, the sarcasm.
Oh, the silliness. All right, have it your way.
I won't spend more time with this useless discussion. Stupid choices, stupid things, hahaha, tell that to David Gaider and the writers. They're the ones who put the choices there.
So now it's my fault to make a "stupid" choice, right?

[Noatz]

bigSarg wrote...

I found a couple problems with the storyline,

First, if you play a mage how is it that you can run around the city casting spells (even in front of Templars) and no one questions it until around the end of act 2 and when you meet Meredith?

That's not a problem with the storyline per-se, more a gameplay allowance that impacts negatively on immersion.

Second:  Aveline mentions that she was at Ostagar, but according to the DA:O storyline everyone at Ostagar died except Alistair and the main character, plus she mentions that she was going to meet Wesley at Ostagar but when you first meet her she is with him, even though none of the templars were at Ostagar?

I'm not trying to say that either of these are game breaking issues but it makes the storyline less believable.

Not everyone died at Ostagar, only all the people they didn't want to use later as "veterans of Ostagar"

There are a couple other problems I have with some of the characters from DA:O in DA2, meeting Alistair in DA2 didn't have any impact on the game what so ever, why he was even there makes no sense to me.  Merrill is totally different than she was in DA:O, if you played the Dalish starter area, she was confident and had an air of authority, but in DA2 she is nothing more than a mouse.  Isabel, Zevran and Nathaniel had the same personalities but looked a little different  (which is fine).  If your going to reuse characters please keep their personalities the same, even Anders seemed to be the same (albiet more annoying than before). 

I think they just wanted to write a specific character for Merrill rather than the generic character that propels that particular origin which was written without putting much thought into it. This would have made for a rather boring companion in DA2 (Velanna 2.0). Alternatively she could have been changed by finding the mirror and losing Tamlen, though I agree the degree of disparity between her Origins and DA2 character makes this unlikely.

Alternative explanation based on troll-logic™: "It's a retcon of Merrill's personality, further proof that NO PLAYER CHOICES EVER MATTER! (somehow)"

[Avissel]

Noatz wrote...
I think they just wanted to write a specific character for Merrill rather than the generic character that propels that particular origin which was written without putting much thought into it. This would have made for a rather boring companion in DA2 (Velanna 2.0). Alternatively she could have been changed by finding the mirror and losing Tamlen, though I agree the degree of disparity between her Origins and DA2 character makes this unlikely.

Alternative explanation based on troll-logic™: "It's a retcon of Merrill's personality, further proof that NO PLAYER CHOICES EVER MATTER! (somehow)"

Yeah, from what I remember she didn't have much of a personality, she was fairly generic.

[Alamar2078]

Talogrungi wrote...

Despite the protestations to the contrary, it is not a retcon. A retcon would be "You didn't kill her in Origins, even if you did." .. Gaider has already stated that this is not the case. If you killed her, she died .. but she's now alive again.

I believe one of Mr. Gaider's quotes on this issue is "you didn't see what you thought you saw".   If you go by that last quote that's exactly what was done ... You thought you killed her but that's not what really happenned.

[Noatz]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Noatz wrote...
And you're the one spouting useless generalisations so don't tell me to not tell you about deficient argumentation.

And of course the options are there, they have every right to be. I just find it amusing that its the people who do the stupid things in game are also the ones saying stupid things on the forum.

I need to heal this Arl to unite Ferelden against the blight. This urn of Sacred Ashes of Sacred Ashes should do it. NO I HAVE A BETTER IDEA! LETS DEFILE IT! Oh the devout Andrastian companion I brought along is going to fight me over it. Who knew?

Oh, the sarcasm.
Oh, the silliness. All right, have it your way.
I won't spend more time with this useless discussion. Stupid choices, stupid things, hahaha, tell that to David Gaider and the writers. They're the ones who put the choices there.
So now it's my fault to make a "stupid" choice, right?

It's a useless discussion because you made it that way, because you're arguing with useless methods.

And about the choice. Its merely an observation. Quite unrelated to the argument at hand: don't try and tie it to it.

[Any0day]

Noatz wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Noatz wrote...
And you're the one spouting useless generalisations so don't tell me to not tell you about deficient argumentation.

And of course the options are there, they have every right to be. I just find it amusing that its the people who do the stupid things in game are also the ones saying stupid things on the forum.

I need to heal this Arl to unite Ferelden against the blight. This urn of Sacred Ashes of Sacred Ashes should do it. NO I HAVE A BETTER IDEA! LETS DEFILE IT! Oh the devout Andrastian companion I brought along is going to fight me over it. Who knew?

Oh, the sarcasm.
Oh, the silliness. All right, have it your way.
I won't spend more time with this useless discussion. Stupid choices, stupid things, hahaha, tell that to David Gaider and the writers. They're the ones who put the choices there.
So now it's my fault to make a "stupid" choice, right?

It's a useless discussion because you made it that way, because you're arguing with useless methods.

And about the choice. Its merely an observation. Quite unrelated to the argument at hand: don't try and tie it to it.

Noatz, you're being pretty arrogant and self centered. First of all; if the choices are there for the player to make - they are not wrong choices. You seem to imply they are. Just because you played the lawful good human noble that gave 10 silver to every blight refugee you saw does not make your version right or my evil pickpocketing-only care about himself rogue wrong. The developers gave me the choice, therefore it's cannon. Get off your high horse and realize for a moment that your argument is a silly one.

First you argue that since someone said the general notion ''choices should matter'' you took it upon yourself to assume they meant no choices mattered... No........ They literally meant: all (each and every) choice - should - matter.

Then you argue that they could not possibly account for each and every choice or possible outcome.. Lol, that's just dense. From a programmer perspective (I'm a programming developer for another company, not games unfortunately), the vast amount of contigencies a programmer has to account for in a massive game such as this puts the most complex choice driven story to shame by miles. The fact that you're arguing they can't simply insert a variable check and account for it, whether it be a ''plot twist'' or a ''retcon,'' is such an ignorant statement.

[TEWR]

Noatz wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Noatz wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Noatz wrote...

Secondly what exactly are you expecting? For them to write a new character just for you? For them to cut Leliana out of the story altogether ignoring all the people who like her character (as evidenced by the DLC) because you're butthurt over it? Be realistic. They wrote a character that proved mostly popular and they felt had potential to help tell their story, so they used her. The main thing to take away from David Gaider's comments here is that they will most likely explain why she is still alive for those who killed her in future content.

Hahahaha, thanks for understanding my point, buddy.
Yeah, I wanted them to write a character for me, that's the point. Uh huh.

At least you made me laugh. That's something.

Considering your demonstrated proclivity for deficient argumentation I suppose I should find your inability to understand the potential consequences of your alleged point unsurprising.

Just think, for a second, about what you expect to happen when you attempt to indicate (via aforementioned stupid generalisation) that "player choices don't matter AT ALL WAAAGH". What will Bioware have to do to accomodate all your myriad choices in their ongoing PLOT?

As a side observation I feel it is worth noting that people who select the illogical options in game such as defiling the urn are apparently also the ones who come to the forum and argue illogically.

You're the one who came here calling me butthurt and that my logic is flawed, so don't tell me about "deficient argumentation".
Take the time to read the thread. Illogical options, whatever. They're there.
Is it more logical to spare Leliana's life?

And you're the one spouting useless generalisations so don't tell me to not tell you about deficient argumentation.

And of course the options are there, they have every right to be. I just find it amusing that its the people who do the stupid things in game are also the ones saying stupid things on the forum.

I need to heal this Arl to unite Ferelden against the blight. This urn of Sacred Ashes of Sacred Ashes should do it. NO I HAVE A BETTER IDEA! LETS DEFILE IT! Oh the devout Andrastian companion I brought along is going to fight me over it. Who knew?

THANK YOU! MOTHER****ING THANK YOU!

This is exactly what I said!



Thank you. I cannot thank you enough

[Lord_Valandil]

Any0day wrote...
Noatz, you're being pretty arrogant and self centered. First of all; if the choices are there for the player to make - they are not wrong choices. You seem to imply they are. Just because you played the lawful good human noble that gave 10 silver to every blight refugee you saw does not make your version right or my evil pickpocketing-only care about himself rogue wrong. The developers gave me the choice, therefore it's cannon. Get off your high horse and realize for a moment that your argument is a silly one.

First you argue that since someone said the general notion ''choices should matter'' you took it upon yourself to assume they meant no choices mattered... No........ They literally meant: all (each and every) choice - should - matter.

Then you argue that they could not possibly account for each and every choice or possible outcome.. Lol, that's just dense. From a programmer perspective (I'm a programming developer for another company, not games unfortunately), the vast amount of contigencies a programmer has to account for in a massive game such as this puts the most complex choice driven story to shame by miles. The fact that you're arguing they can't simply insert a variable check and account for it, whether it be a ''plot twist'' or a ''retcon,'' is such an ignorant statement.

Thanks. I couldn't have said it better.

[TEWR]

Look, here's the problem. It's a choice. Cool, yea whatever. It was a minor choice. Couldn't you persuade her to stand down? Yes you could. Like it or not, killing her was a MINOR choice you could make. Let me give some reasons why people should just DROP IT:

• There is absolutely no fathomable sense of logic to bringing a devout Andrastian to a magical holy temple (yes it's magical. Oghren says so, and this is one of the times when he wasn't ****ing drunk out of his mind) with the intention of defiling the Urn. I'm not saying the choice to do it is wrong because maybe you just wanted to kill her for ****s and giggles, but there is no logic behind it to justify that course of action as making sense
• In one of the various endings at the Hero of Ferelden Ceremony, she says she'll be working for the Chantry. So her involvement in a grander role for Thedas' story makes complete sense, especially when the new Divine is the same woman who rescued her in Leliana's Song.
• How do you know you blatantly killed her? You could've left her for dead, and using her last ounce of strength she crawled up to the Ashes, grabbing a pinch because she had nothing to lose by trying it out. And I swear if I see someone comment "Derp I decapitated her!" I will hit my head into the wall while I'm running.

• As I said above, you can intimidate her into standing down. I just pulled up an old save, defiled the Ashes, and told her to cut that **** out.
• David Gaider has said they have an explanation detailing her presence. You killed her? That'll be explained. You didn't kill her? That's.... pretty much been explained already.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 05 avril 2011 - 08:29 .

[Wulfram]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[*]As I said above, you can intimidate her into standing down. I just pulled up an old save, defiled the Ashes, and told her to cut that **** out.[/list]

You can only intimidate hardened Leliana, I believe.

[ziloe]

David Gaider wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...
David could I ask you a question?. Are you happy with how Dragon Age 2 turned out and the reaction it's getting. Also are you allowed to say things off the books or not?.

It's a mixed bag. Obviously I don't like some of the negative reaction-- who would? It's clear the fanbase is very polarized, and while that's not good it's also not altogether unexpected. Beyond that, I'm not really comfortable talking about it at length. There's some fans who seem particularly vengeful, and appear to look on anything that isn't a mea culpa of some kind as us completely ignoring what they see as overwhelmingly negative response (overwhelming in this case, I suppose, meaning any positive response is clearly invalid), which isn't the case either.

I can talk about my opinion, but insofar as a response goes or talking about our future plans, there's a very limited amount that I could say even if I wished to. Our plans will ultimately be up to us to decide, and we'll look to the forums as a source (if not the only source) of feedback for where to go.

Maria Caliban wrote...
I am serious.

Please tell me how Jurassic Park was not a great story.

It's probably because it's popular, and thus cooler to hate.

Not unlike Twilight, and the guy who keeps running around outraged at the very idea that I suggested the romance in Twilight was an interesting point of examination, considering how it clearly touched such a nerve. Since Twilight is considered terrible even by people who've only heard of it, this equates to it having nothing of interest for anyone or any positive qualities... ever... and any suggestion to the contrary is me endorsing it as both a story and a source of good romance.

Only extremes exist in the Internet. There is no middle ground, and nothing to learn even from failure. Perhaps, to these people, there is simply nothing to learn period. Which is probably the saddest commentary I can imagine.

But the better question is, do you see Bella's obsession as unhealthy? And do you see Edward's stalking as okay and not view him as emotionally abusive?

Also, when it comes to DA, most of my friends are particularly bothered when it comes to Anders. No matter what you do, the ending events still unfold, even if you didn't do his quest line. 

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


[*]As I said above, you can intimidate her into standing down. I just pulled up an old save, defiled the Ashes, and told her to cut that **** out.[/list]

You can only intimidate hardened Leliana, I believe.

I don't think it's restricted to hardened Leliana. But I don't know, I'm not pulling up that old save again and doing everything over again. The DA wiki doesn't say hardening her is the only way to intimidate her to stand down.

[Lord_Valandil]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Look, here's the problem. It's a choice. Cool, yea whatever. It was a minor choice. Couldn't you persuade her to stand down? Yes you could. Like it or not, killing her was a MINOR choice you could make. Let me give some reasons why people should just DROP IT:

Hm. Derp.
I'm not going to continue with the beheading thing, other than saying they shouldn't have implemented that animation with characters they were going to use later.
And also, the "Oh, she was unconscious or injured, so she crawled and cured herself with the ashes" theory is pretty bad, at least to me. Basically, it's like saying that The Warden is capable of killing an Archdemon but not a girl.

You know, I'm willing to believe that a spirit is keeping her alive, kinda the same thing that happened to Wynne.
But not the "She was unconscious/Left for dead" crap.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 05 avril 2011 - 08:32 .

[ziloe]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Look, here's the problem. It's a choice. Cool, yea whatever. It was a minor choice. Couldn't you persuade her to stand down? Yes you could. Like it or not, killing her was a MINOR choice you could make. Let me give some reasons why people should just DROP IT:

Hm. Derp.
I'm not going to continue with the beheading thing, other than saying they shouldn't have implemented that animation with characters they were going to use later.
And also, the "Oh, she was unconscious or injured, so she crawled and cured herself with the ashes" theory is pretty bad, at least to me. Basically, it's like saying that The Warden is capable of killing an Archdemon but not a girl.

You know, I'm willing to believe that a spirit is keeping her alive, kinda the same thing that happened to Wynne.
But not the "She was unconscious/Left for dead" crap.

Well, technically I could see the Warden holding back. Perhaps. Kinda like that one fight scene in The Expendables where the big guy gets shot, but nowhere near any artery. 

The beheading thing shouldn't matter. It's just a cool critical. I did that on the guy in Redcliffe too, when he was forced to fight me. He was back on his feet in the next scene. 

[TEWR]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Look, here's the problem. It's a choice. Cool, yea whatever. It was a minor choice. Couldn't you persuade her to stand down? Yes you could. Like it or not, killing her was a MINOR choice you could make. Let me give some reasons why people should just DROP IT:

Hm. Derp.
I'm not going to continue with the beheading thing, other than saying they shouldn't have implemented that animation with characters they were going to use later.
And also, the "Oh, she was unconscious or injured, so she crawled and cured herself with the ashes" theory is pretty bad, at least to me. Basically, it's like saying that The Warden is capable of killing an Archdemon but not a girl.

You know, I'm willing to believe that a spirit is keeping her alive, kinda the same thing that happened to Wynne.
But not the "She was unconscious/Left for dead" crap.

I admit it would be bad storytelling, but it doesn't rule it out entirely. It would only be bad storytelling if you weren't in a romance with her at the time. Otherwise, the Warden holding back makes sense. He/She fell in love with this girl and doesn't want to kill her.

I thought of the Spirit keeping her alive idea too last night and would prefer that one or the "Everything happened in the Fade" explanation, or some other good explanation by the devs. Honestly, my main problem is people were told that they'd receive an explanation from the developers and they just have to be patient, and this thread is proof that people can't be patient and go "Ok, we'll wait and see what you got". Instead it's "MOAR" and "GIMME"

Maybe they ****ed up. Maybe this was their intention all along. Who knows, but fans saying that they definitely ****ed up and should admit it are basically saying they know everything about the DA universe, the mindsets of the devs, and the story that's going to be told. Granted, if they did **** up I doubt they would admit it, but saying "The devs ****ed up, plain and simple." just really gets on my nerves.

Not saying you said anywhere in this thread what was in that last paragraph Valandil. Just trying to make a point

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 05 avril 2011 - 08:45 .

[Wulfram]

ziloe wrote...

The beheading thing shouldn't matter. It's just a cool critical. I did that on the guy in Redcliffe too, when he was forced to fight me. He was back on his feet in the next scene. 

Did his head grow back?  Once, my Dwarf Noble was arrested by a headless guardsman.

[ziloe]

Wulfram wrote...

ziloe wrote...

The beheading thing shouldn't matter. It's just a cool critical. I did that on the guy in Redcliffe too, when he was forced to fight me. He was back on his feet in the next scene. 

Did his head grow back?  Once, my Dwarf Noble was arrested by a headless guardsman.

Yup, back to normal. He was totally cool with it. Just a flesh wound. 

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

ziloe wrote...

The beheading thing shouldn't matter. It's just a cool critical. I did that on the guy in Redcliffe too, when he was forced to fight me. He was back on his feet in the next scene. 

Did his head grow back?  Once, my Dwarf Noble was arrested by a headless guardsman.

The Headless Dwarfsman strikes again!

[Alamar2078]

Hmmm .. I wonder how much of a difference word choice would have mattered in explaining this to the fans?? Mr. Gaider in multiple threads was "virtually attacked" and he responded in a very human way. I just wonder if the tone of a lot of the posts were different if the end results would have been different?

Heck I've been grouchy with BW recently myself. My more emotional posts were "just dumb". When I rationally looked at things though my posts took on a whole other tone and communicated my points much better than a tirade.

[Noatz]

Any0day wrote...

Noatz, you're being pretty arrogant and self centered. First of all; if the choices are there for the player to make - they are not wrong choices. You seem to imply they are. Just because you played the lawful good human noble that gave 10 silver to every blight refugee you saw does not make your version right or my evil pickpocketing-only care about himself rogue wrong. The developers gave me the choice, therefore it's cannon. Get off your high horse and realize for a moment that your argument is a silly one.

What's this now, making stuff up about how I played Origins?

First of all this isn't about "right and wrong" anyhow, its about one choice in the game which can be considered stupid (you do it to unlock the reaver spec then most people probably reloaded their saves because...its stupid). Lets use your wording in another setting.

You come across a meat grinder. Just because you played the lawful good human noble who walked past the meat grinder without incident does not make your version right and my evil pickpocketing rogue who shoved his arm into it and pulverised it into a bloody mess wrong. Nope, but it does make it NOT STUPID. And this is fine, why after all shouldn't there be certain stupid choices? Stupid people exist after all, you should have at least some opportunity to role play that. It doesn't necessarily mean the person who took that option is stupid, I just noticed a correlation (admittedly based on personal anecdotal evidence only) between how stupid arguments over events containing stupid choices seem to emanate from those who selected them.

First you argue that since someone said the general notion ''choices should matter'' you took it upon yourself to assume they meant no choices mattered... No........ They literally meant: all (each and every) choice - should - matter.

Then you argue that they could not possibly account for each and every choice or possible outcome.. Lol, that's just dense. From a programmer perspective (I'm a programming developer for another company, not games unfortunately), the vast amount of contigencies a programmer has to account for in a massive game such as this puts the most complex choice driven story to shame by miles. The fact that you're arguing they can't simply insert a variable check and account for it, whether it be a ''plot twist'' or a ''retcon,'' is such an ignorant statement.

I didn't "take it upon myself to assume" anything, they were generalising. The argument was over the "Leliana retcon" which they were using to try and argue that NO PLAYER CHOICES MATTER.

And uh, in case you hadn't noticed we aren't playing Final Fantasy anymore; a bit more goes into character implementation than just programming - like voice acting. So no, I'm not arguing they can't implement a variable check to account for player choice because I could do that using a copy of RPG Maker 2000.

Modifié par Noatz, 05 avril 2011 - 10:19 .

[Any0day]

What's this now, making stuff up about how I played Origins?

I suppose you don't know what an anology or example is?

First of all this isn't about "right and wrong" anyhow, its about one choice in the game which can be considered stupid (you do it to unlock the reaver spec then most people probably reloaded their saves because...its stupid). Lets use your wording in another setting...but it does make it NOT STUPID. why after all shouldn't there be certain stupid choices? Stupid people exist after all, you should have at least some opportunity to role play that. It doesn't necessarily mean the person who took that option is stupid, I just noticed a correlation (admittedly based on personal anecdotal evidence only) between how stupid arguments over events containing stupid choices seem to emanate from those who selected them.

You want to know what's pretty stupid? Someone who tries to define what ''stupid'' is in in the context of a video game. If it doesn't kill you, if it doesn't end the adventure, if it works, then it's not stupid. If the writer wrote the choice or option into the game, then it's valid. Stop saying it's not valid because it fits some arbitrary description of what you happen to define as stupid; it's so closeminded it's not even funny.  I suppose you don't understand what ''roleplaying'' is either, where my character might choose something that I myself wouldn't.

they were generalising.

...And you weren't? 

And uh, in case you hadn't noticed we aren't playing Final Fantasy anymore; a bit more goes into character implementation than just programming - like voice acting. So no, I'm not arguing they can't implement a variable check to account for player choice because I could do that using a copy of RPG Maker 2000.

Oh, you are just too cute. So, the voice acting for Merril in DAO must've been a huge waste because the only time you saw it is if you happened to roll the Dalish Elf Origin story - please... Have you even coded anything outside scripting, once the code works, VO work is a walk in the park. Yes, its costs money - that's why I'm buying the game though - I'm paying money for a unique experience.

I don't see myself convincing you to change your mind on how obtuse and remiss you're being trying to argue points that are not only not valid (because Bioware themselves have done them in the past) or are your personal opinion, and sorry - the universe doesn't revolve around you. I'm responding just to point out to others how ridiculous your argument is.

Modifié par Any0day, 05 avril 2011 - 10:47 .

[TEWR]

Any0day wrote...

I suppose you don't know what an anology or example is?

I'm going to intrude here. It's the forums, so it happens. You could've worded your analogy a tad better so it didn't say "Just because you....". Instead of you, you could've said "Just because a person..."

You want to know what's pretty stupid? Someone who tries to define what ''stupid'' is in in the context of a video game. If it doesn't kill you, if it doesn't end the adventure, if it works, then it's not stupid. If the writer wrote the choice or option into the game, then it's valid. Stop saying it's not valid because it fits some arbitrary description of what you happen to define as stupid; it's so closeminded it's not even funny.  I suppose you don't understand what ''roleplaying'' is either, where my character might choose something that I myself wouldn't.

Valid yes, but it's the stupid type of validity. One that has no logic to back up its reasoning, no matter how cleverly a person words their arguments. No one better take this as an attack on the writers and devs, because it's not. They put that choice in the game, and it's there.

...And you weren't? 

Everyone on the Bioware forums seems to generalize, y'know? Seriously, most if not all counterarguments on here are just fanciful wording that underneath it all is really saying "I'm right. You're wrong. Deal with it." That's how I view it, bleak as it may be.

Oh, you are just too cute. So, the voice acting for Merril in DAO must've been a huge waste because the only time you saw it is if you happened to roll the Dalish Elf Origin story - please... Have you even coded anything outside scripting, once the code works, VO work is a walk in the park. Yes, its costs money - that's why I'm buying the game though - I'm paying money for a unique experience.

I don't see myself convincing you to change your mind on how obtuse and remiss you're being trying to argue points that are not only not valid (because Bioware themselves have done them in the past) or are your personal opinion, and sorry - the universe doesn't revolve around you. I'm responding just to point out to others how ridiculous your argument is.

no real comment for this section.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 05 avril 2011 - 11:16 .

[Icy Magebane]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Everyone on the Bioware forums seems to generalize, y'know? Seriously, most if not all counterarguments on here are just fanciful wording that underneath it all is really saying "I'm right. You're wrong. Deal with it." That's how I view it, bleak as it may be.

After reading your posts, I just hope you include yourself in this assessment.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 05 avril 2011 - 11:23 .

[TEWR]

Icy Magebane wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Everyone on the Bioware forums seems to generalize, y'know? Seriously, most if not all counterarguments on here are just fanciful wording that underneath it all is really saying "I'm right. You're wrong. Deal with it." That's how I view it, bleak as it may be.

After reading your posts, I just hope you include yourself in this assessment.

I do, depending on the context of what's being discussed and what I say. I can't say I do it all the time, because that would require me looking over every single post I've made not only on this account, but my old one as well. I don't really care if I generalize or not. I just try to make a point. Sometimes I fail, sometimes I don't.

[Any0day]

Valid yes, but it's the stupid type of validity. One that has no logic to back up its reasoning, no matter how cleverly a person words their arguments. No one better take this as an attack on the writers and devs, because it's not. They put that choice in the game, and it's there.

I suppose the choice itself might be considered ''stupid'' by some within the context of say... a lawful good human; but is that same valid choice considered ''stupid'' by an evil dwarf who cares only for fortune and riches? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you mean by stupid, because ''stupid'' depends on context? A dwarf might think speaking to the Maker in visions and hearing voices in your head is pretty stupid; and tell Leliana she's freakin nuts - whereas an elf mage might understand more - and not consider it stupid at all.