665 réponses à ce sujet

[Fireblader70]

I may be wrong, but wasn't Leliana's 'death' acknowledged in the Exiled Prince DLC?
Sure, it wasn't explained how she survived, but at least it wasn't as if they ignored your Origins choice. I just see this as an interesting mystery, rather than insult. If I'm right about the whole acknowledging thing. Am I? Someone confirm or deny please...

Overall, I have to say that the story was too disconnected in my opinion. I can see what they tried to do, but it just didn't work. The whole framed narrative idea is cool, but when you pass three whole years without knowing what in the world happened... sorry, but that doesn't work so well in an RPG. Films and books, sure, but when you personally are the main character, it's best if you know what you're doing all the time. It reminds me of the movie 'Click'.

[Maria Caliban]

I played the Exiled Prince and have no idea what you're talking about.

[Kimberly Shaw]

DA2 should not have really let you play a mage the way the story is written, and it REALLY should not have let you be a blood mage given how the whole overreaching story is about blood mages yet being one has no impact at all. Ever. That is the biggest "plot" problem with the game.

Either don't let us be blood mages or make choosing blood magic specialization have the impact on the story that is logical for it to have. What you've done is stupid, Bioware.

[Fireblader70]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I played the Exiled Prince and have no idea what you're talking about.

I'll translate that as 'you're wrong'.
Ok, my bad XD

[Tezzajh]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

DA2 should not have really let you play a mage the way the story is written, and it REALLY should not have let you be a blood mage given how the whole overreaching story is about blood mages yet being one has no impact at all. Ever. That is the biggest "plot" problem with the game.

Either don't let us be blood mages or make choosing blood magic specialization have the impact on the story that is logical for it to have. What you've done is stupid, Bioware.

I like this I played an entire playthrough as a blood mage no reaction at all, dissapointed

as for the lelianna recovery does it really matter? we all have imaginations, use your own to decide how she come back, knocked out, deal with demon etc

[Lord_Valandil]

Tezzajh wrote...
as for the lelianna recovery does it really matter? we all have imaginations, use your own to decide how she come back, knocked out, deal with demon etc

Right, because a person can interact with a demon or be knocked out after someone chops her head off.
The lack of explanation just tells me something...there isn't an explanation. She's back just..."because".


Edit.
Maybe Leliana is "The Thing", and after the Warden chopped her head off, she waited until he/she left the scene, and then...

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 03 avril 2011 - 07:06 .

[Tezzajh]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Tezzajh wrote...
as for the lelianna recovery does it really matter? we all have imaginations, use your own to decide how she come back, knocked out, deal with demon etc

Right, because a person can interact with a demon or be knocked out after someone chops her head off.
The lack of explanation just tells me something...there isn't an explanation. She's back just..."because".


Edit.
Maybe Leliana is "The Thing", and after the Warden chopped her head off, she waited until he/she left the scene, and then...

well fine keep complaning it wont give you what you want , its not like its a massive impact on the game, she's in there what for like 4 mins?

[Torax]

Or you all could have not been ****s and let Leliana & Zevran live. They were companions and while I didn't use Zevran as often, I had no reason to bother killing them. I wouldn't care if I killed them and then they showed up randomly. Only care if you killed them in Origins and then they showed up standing next to you for the rest of that game. Get over it and move on to either you wanting to play the game or not. It's better than a focus on petty little points just because Gaider may respond about it.

[Lord_Valandil]

Tezzajh wrote...
well fine keep complaning it wont give you what you want , its not like its a massive impact on the game, she's in there what for like 4 mins?

I'm not saying..."OMGGGZZ...The game is ruined, you suck Bioware, I'll never believe you again, I'm going to cut my veins if Leliana doesn't stay dead", it doesn't matter if she's in the game for five minutes or an hour, the fact that she's in the game even if someone killed her in DA:O is what bothers me.
You know...her appearance wasn't necessary, she could have been replaced by a random npc in case a player killed her in DA:O, so her appearance would be a surprise for a player who let her live.

[Tezzajh]

well I killed flemeth yet she returned, why can't Lelianna? fine you hit her head off, in mine I hit flemeths face with an axe, but praise the lord flemth come back without a scratch.

[Lord_Valandil]

Tezzajh wrote...

well I killed flemeth yet she returned, why can't Lelianna? fine you hit her head off, in mine I hit flemeths face with an axe, but praise the lord flemth come back without a scratch.

Heh. It's different.
Flemeth is not a human being, weren't you paying attention?
Save the sarcasm.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 03 avril 2011 - 07:40 .

[DanteCousland]

You know I never got why one would spare Zevran. He was a random assasin hired to kill you, he attacks you, he pretty much states he wouldn't trust himself, it just seems like the dumbest decision ever to let him come along, I think alot of people obviously did it for dialogue companion romance purposes rather than common sense purposes. Whenever I get random encounters where I am attacked by bandits I kill all them, their just ,mindless bandits. When I first played DAO I didn't even know he was a companion which is why I killed him,I found out afterwards he was a companion but I didnt spare him on other playthroughs because the warden would have to either be incredibly dumb or incredibly brave (Most likely both) where I like to play tactical, cunning pragmatic heroes.

[Torax]

Think of it like this. There is the good endings and results from Origins. If they were going to base their writing they would more likely use that. They wouldn't base the game on a "They destroyed the ashes." I also doubt they bother to try and plan a game for every single occurrence you could have in Origins. Could they even have had enough flags in the original for things like "Destroy ashes but only wynne was there." "Didn't destroy ashes but Leliana was there." This could have maybe helped her wanting to return to the Divine. Just because you consider it your Canon doesn't mean it's mine or any others.

If I was the biggest ****** in the world and did all evil outcomes just because I could. I still wouldn't expect it all to port right. It would have made the story far more terrible to even tell. So why would they want it to be a key part for DA3?

Odds are the responses you'd more likely expect as canon would be all the more good balanced ones.

Alistair is king. Harrowmont is king. Mages were saved. Gregor and Irving are happy. Blanka died, Anvil destroyed. Ashes were found. Arl was saved. All is well (Everyone lives!). Zath ends the curse and dies.

Now even in regards to these decisions. The only true impact you get is who your aids are while fighting to the arch demon. If you expected more than that? I mean I used Leliana as a Archer having Nature Arrows to help kill the Arch Demon anyway. Should my game import right or should one where someone let them die cause they got the option to? Be happy you even had an option, even if it was a petty one just to kill up to 2 of your companions at once so you could think "YAY I'M SO EVIL!"

Modifié par Torax, 03 avril 2011 - 07:50 .

[DanteCousland]

Actually in my opinion Bhelen is the better king for Orzammar, Harrowmont is the good intentioned one but Bhelen is definitely the more skillful. Also I annuled the mages for the greater good, to make sure there were no blood mages left. The same goes for the anvil, I needed those golems to fight. In my opinion although they were worse options in the small term in the long term they had the best consequences (minus Branka going crazy....but I needed those Golems to tank the archdemon lol)

[Lord_Valandil]

Torax wrote...

Think of it like this. There is the good endings and results from Origins. If they were going to base their writing they would more likely use that. They wouldn't base the game on a "They destroyed the ashes." I also doubt they bother to try and plan a game for every single occurrence you could have in Origins. Could they even have had enough flags in the original for things like "Destroy ashes but only wynne was there." "Didn't destroy ashes but Leliana was there." This could have maybe helped her wanting to return to the Divine. Just because you consider it your Canon doesn't mean it's mine or any others.

If I was the biggest ****** in the world and did all evil outcomes just because I could. I still wouldn't expect it all to port right. It would have made the story far more terrible to even tell. So why would they want it to be a key part for DA3?

Odds are the responses you'd more likely expect as canon would be all the more good balanced ones.

Alistair is king. Harrowmont is king. Mages were saved. Gregor and Irving are happy. Blanka died, Anvil destroyed. Ashes were found. Arl was saved. All is well (Everyone lives!). Zath ends the curse and dies.

Now even in regards to these decisions. The only true impact you get is who your aids are while fighting to the arch demon. If you expected more than that? I mean I used Leliana as a Archer having Nature Arrows to help kill the Arch Demon anyway. Should my game import right or should one where someone let them die cause they got the option to? Be happy you even had an option, even if it was a petty one just to kill up to 2 of your companions at once so you could think "YAY I'M SO EVIL!"

*Sigh*
That's why I told DG to screw the choices and to make their own canon.
Because, you know, if our choices aren't going to have an effect...what's the point? It makes no sense.

[Tezzajh]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Tezzajh wrote...

well I killed flemeth yet she returned, why can't Lelianna? fine you hit her head off, in mine I hit flemeths face with an axe, but praise the lord flemth come back without a scratch.

Heh. It's different.
Flemeth is not a human being, weren't you paying attention?
Save the sarcasm.

point is BIOWARE made a way for flemeth to return regardless of what she is, so obviously they have made a way for Lelianna to return, just cause they havent explained how she come back doesn't mean they wont

[Lord_Valandil]

Tezzajh wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Tezzajh wrote...

well I killed flemeth yet she returned, why can't Lelianna? fine you hit her head off, in mine I hit flemeths face with an axe, but praise the lord flemth come back without a scratch.

Heh. It's different.
Flemeth is not a human being, weren't you paying attention?
Save the sarcasm.

point is BIOWARE made a way for flemeth to return regardless of what she is, so obviously they have made a way for Lelianna to return, just cause they havent explained how she come back doesn't mean they wont

Right.
David Gaider said..."Don't expect to receive an explanation anytime soon".
In other words, "We don't have an explanation, so stop complaining and get over it".

[DanteCousland]

He doesn't seem to accept that it's a dumb decision. I'm sorry but brining back a dead character, not providing any explanation is pretty much a STFU. They shouldv'e thought of these things behind. I've seen better written D 'n' D campaigns by a 14 year old. LOL

[Tezzajh]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Tezzajh wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Tezzajh wrote...

well I killed flemeth yet she returned, why can't Lelianna? fine you hit her head off, in mine I hit flemeths face with an axe, but praise the lord flemth come back without a scratch.

Heh. It's different.
Flemeth is not a human being, weren't you paying attention?
Save the sarcasm.

point is BIOWARE made a way for flemeth to return regardless of what she is, so obviously they have made a way for Lelianna to return, just cause they havent explained how she come back doesn't mean they wont

Right.
David Gaider said..."Don't expect to receive an explanation anytime soon".
In other words, "We don't have an explanation, so stop complaining and get over it".

lol well you have lost then

[Torax]

DanteCousland wrote...

Actually in my opinion Bhelen is the better king for Orzammar, Harrowmont is the good intentioned one but Bhelen is definitely the more skillful. Also I annuled the mages for the greater good, to make sure there were no blood mages left. The same goes for the anvil, I needed those golems to fight. In my opinion although they were worse options in the small term in the long term they had the best consequences (minus Branka going crazy....but I needed those Golems to tank the archdemon lol)

The answers you accepted was killing all mages even the ones not turned into abominations. To let a guy who arranged the death of one brother and the exile of their other sibling so he could be the ruler. After he becomes ruler he becomes a tyrant. Yup so much better. What was this better option with Bhelen? Killing all who opposed him. Not allowing the Noble Houses to speak against him without fear of death. It's only the best in your mind.

It's also like saying in Mass Effect 2. "Keeping the Collector Ship was the best answer." It's the Red one for a reason. Who are you giving it to? What would they do with it? There is the good results and there are the bad. Is really letting the Werewolves kill all the Dalish a better answer to that problem? Of course not. All they wanted was the Curse gone. By getting Zath to remove it, the Werewolves are now human again as they wanted and the Dalish are not slaughtered. Or if you went the other way the Werewolves are all slaughtered just because Zath asked you to do so.

Try to justify what you think was best. But they were darker in general. Harrowmont for example just was wanting the old ways. Yup that is some how more evil than the guy that basically makes himself emporer palpatine...

Modifié par Torax, 03 avril 2011 - 08:01 .

[Lord_Valandil]

Tezzajh wrote...
lol well you have lost then

So it seems.

[fantasypisces]

Normally I defend David Gaider with a passion, I love the man's writing...

But even I raised an eyebrow when he said (along these lines) "I don't think we have explained it, and I don't think we will explain it anytime soon, just understand and accept that it happened".

I envisioned a big middle finger coming out of my computer screen, lol.
I dunno, overall it isn't a big deal. But I am slightly bothered (or at least starting to get bothered) that all the games will just be isolated stories, I'm starting to wonder if that's the case why even import choices at all. All that happened was some cameos that weren't really important, a couple lines of dialogue here and there, maybe some small sidequests.

I dunno, I guess I'm just slowly drifting over to "what's the point" crowd.

[Nialos]

DanteCousland wrote...

He doesn't seem to accept that it's a dumb decision. I'm sorry but brining back a dead character, not providing any explanation is pretty much a STFU. They shouldv'e thought of these things behind. I've seen better written D 'n' D campaigns by a 14 year old. LOL

Yes. It pretty much is a STFU move. Probably because as he said: they're not ready to reveal the situation just yet, be patient. Or don't. I doubt it matters much to them at this point.

Honestly? DA:O was an experiment. They had no idea if it was gonna be successful enough to warrant a sequel. They probably penned the main lore just enough to make it interesting, with no added 'future content' planned. Now that they've found it IS a success, they wanna go in a certain direction.

Is this bad? Sure, it steps on some toes. But how many people ACTUALLY killed Leliana? They have the statistics, they know. They deliberately stepped on a small minority of toes for the greater whole - that's a move I think most writers would do if they really wanted to go in a set direction.

[DanteCousland]

Bhelen also made massive trade reforms and links with the surface plus you do know the anulment doesnt kill all amges they interrogate all mages and kill a few numbers, the epilogue states harrowmont was a failure. Harrowmont was a usurper and anyone with  half a brain could see he'd be a poor ruler. Iwas a human noble i beleive in bloodlines giving on the throne, I honestly beleive the only good harrowmont ending is if your a dwarfen noble. Like you said these things might be better in youy playthrough but for me they have more negative or less helpful consequences all for what, what's morally good. dragon age is morally grey, you are pragmatic and cruel but that is how ferelden works, its a dirty world and as Darwin said it was survival of the fittest as evidenced by the strong handed Bhelen making orzammar better if more tyrannical or the weak willed harrowmont which leads might I add to civil war.

Modifié par DanteCousland, 03 avril 2011 - 08:09 .

[Tezzajh]

Torax wrote...


Try to justify what you think was best. But they were darker in general. Harrowmont for example just was wanting the old ways. Yup that is some how more evil than the guy that basically makes himself emporer palpatine...

well actually Harromont wanted the old ways which kept people in poverty, Belhen wanted to improve the situation, Harromont turned into a kidnapper while Belhen waged war against the insane golem maker.
Harroment is more evil