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A Guide to Spirit Healers: Being Repressed as of 1.02-1.03


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#51
tonnactus

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ezrafetch wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

And for everyone who isnt a forcemage or want to respec to spirit healer/bloodmage when reaching level 13 gloves that protect against knockback for "free".


Yeah, I realized that after deciding to stop drooling over the Apostateface's juicy stats.  I put it into the guide already, it's a good set of gloves.  The best gear in the game is quickly becoming apparent (well, especially thanks to the DLC).

Basically this new item DLC was the equivalent of the Firepower Pack DLC for ME2: basically made gearing way too easy.


Some of those items have still level restrictions.So unshakable until level 13 is still worth it.
By the way,the health regen from vitality is 40,not 100?

#52
ezrafetch

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tonnactus wrote...

Some of those items have still level restrictions.So unshakable until level 13 is still worth it.
By the way,the health regen from vitality is 40,not 100?


True.  On my first playthroughs I took FM at lvl7 and had Unshakable.  I'm going to try otherwise (I'm probably going to take BM just for the life bonus) and see if I still get chained into oblivion.  My impression is that with smart playing it's unlikely.  Taunt, Armistice and Goad should get me off with no problems.  Otherwise, I'll just also throw Bravery onto Aveline as a safety valve.

Unless the tooltip or whatever magic mojo you PC players have to plumb the secrets of DA2 says otherwise, the skill tree says Vitality's health regen bonus is, in fact, +100.

I've also been contemplating using Fenris, just for the sake of it.  I never used him on my only complete playthrough thus far so I want to try to bring him around more.  He'll be able to exploit Brittle and set up Staggers, then with Elemental Aegis + Deflect + roonz he should be well immune of any and all Firestorms heading his way.  And given the greater amount of elemental two-handers he should churn out larger damage.  He'll just have to be micro'd better (Aveline was a total "fire and forget" character), and I'll just have to keep my distance better than I currently do lest he FFs me into oblivion. :lol:

Fenris build may look like this.

Bearbeitet von ezrafetch, 28 April 2011 - 04:06 .


#53
tonnactus

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ezrafetch wrote...

Fenris build may look like this.


I would give fenris bravery and command.With sunder(10 crit chance),lyrium ghost(20 percent), and command alone he would have 40 percent crit chance.And with bravery,3 percent per near enemy(with Dragon Age II big waves definetly worth it).
And critical hits means also staggers(and with fenris high crit chance you get these nonstop)

#54
tristax78

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I'm just starting DA2 (long story). For whatever reason I've never been into multiple play throughs of any game, I'm also a bit of a completionist which makes the former a bit of a thorn in my side. I prefer having choice companions over choice play style and I don't mind playing a support role. I played DA:O as a Healer with the exception of Awakenings where I re-speced to nuke due to Anders. I've decided to go with SH so I can roll with Merrill, Sebastian and Fennris (re-spec'd to tank). I may switch Aveline with Fennris due to being pro-mage (Fennris just looks so damn cool though). I really dislike how pigeon-holed I feel in DA2 in terms of companions.

From reading through this, it sounds like you rolled with Sebastian at least at some point instead of Varric. Do you have any plans to or can you add a guide for Sebastian like you did the others? I found them really helpful for my pre-game research.

I'd love more CCC info as well (in terms of setting up tactis with the various SH builds / Companions) since this seems to be a key for a lot of fights and I'm itching to start playing and stop reading so damn much. haha

Thanks a lot for putting in the time to do this. Epic work mate.

I'm playing on the 360 and normal (I really regret not at least going Hard - I had no idea it would be THIS easy on normal.)

EDIT: Hate double positing like you so hopefully you'll see this. I'm also extremely interested in the mage crit set up. I was trying to find out what the minimum Magic / Willpower requirements were to wear each Act's unique armor set so I could hit that then dump the rest into Dex / Cun, start new Act and repeat. Having not played yet, is this viable or should I go straight Magic / Willpower until I reach minimum AC requirements for max gear and then start adding to Dex / Cun? I'm assuming the "After Gear" on those stats you posted means those are the minimum needed? I guess I'm trying to figure out how and when I can start adding to Dex / Cun without sacrificing my ability to meet minimum requirements for gear tailored to my level.

Bearbeitet von tristax78, 06 Mai 2011 - 01:49 .


#55
ezrafetch

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tristax78 wrote...

From reading through this, it sounds like you rolled with Sebastian at least at some point instead of Varric. Do you have any plans to or can you add a guide for Sebastian like you did the others? I found them really helpful for my pre-game research.


I did, in fact tinker with Seb a bit.  Seb's just a more defensive-oriented Archer (Varric is straight offense).  I can work on a Sebby build and tactics, though, since you have asked. :)

I'd love more CCC info as well (in terms of setting up tactis with the various SH builds / Companions) since this seems to be a key for a lot of fights and I'm itching to start playing and stop reading so damn much. haha


What in particular?  I can give more advice if you decide on a particular SH/X/X build and if you have a particular party composition you wanted.  Stagger combos usually start with either Shield Bash or Cleave, Brittles usually start with Petrify, Winter's Grasp or Cone of Cold.  I don't really like using Disorient that much, to be honest, it's too much of a point sink.  Stagger finishers are Chain Lightning, Hemorrhage and Fist of the Maker, Brittle finishers are Archer's Lance, Bursting Arrow and Mighty Blow.

Thanks a lot for putting in the time to do this. Epic work mate.

I'm playing on the 360 and normal (I really regret not at least going Hard - I had no idea it would be THIS easy on normal.)

EDIT: Hate double positing like you so hopefully you'll see this. I'm also extremely interested in the mage crit set up. I was trying to find out what the minimum Magic / Willpower requirements were to wear each Act's unique armor set so I could hit that then dump the rest into Dex / Cun, start new Act and repeat. Having not played yet, is this viable or should I go straight Magic / Willpower until I reach minimum AC requirements for max gear and then start adding to Dex / Cun? I'm assuming the "After Gear" on those stats you posted means those are the minimum needed? I guess I'm trying to figure out how and when I can start adding to Dex / Cun without sacrificing my ability to meet minimum requirements for gear tailored to my level.


You're welcome, I love guide writing, for some dumb reason.  You want Magic at least to be 42 for the best staves.  The rest depends on what trees you take.  If you take Elemental, it's not wise to stack crit outside of the boots and rings, since you get such hefty damage bonuses from other items, which leaves you at 42 Magic/32 Willpower minimum requirements.  I'm no crit build expert, that's mr_afk, I'd ask him about his build specifics (at least stat/gear-wise).  My general opinion is, though, that it's probably not worth it to go maxing Dex/Cun like a Rogue.  Stack Magic to about 60-65, Cunning to about 20-25, and Dex after that.  You'll still have a pretty good Magic score, then you'll crit probably around 50% given the rest of your party, and with a reasonable Cunning score you'll get some improved numbers.

#56
tristax78

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ezrafetch wrote...

I did, in fact tinker with Seb a bit.  Seb's just a more defensive-oriented Archer (Varric is straight offense).  I can work on a Sebby build and tactics, though, since you have asked. :)


I haven't even gotten him yet but his brief apperance outside the Chantry left me intrigued. I'll have to look and see if I can find the optimal DPS build for him, even if Varric idealy does more damage. I'm kinda ticked at the lockpicking change since for ranged rouges, Dex seems to be what I should be pumping more into. Is there anything even worthwhile from lockpicking or should I just stop fretting over it?

If you get bored and since you love writing guides...you could add what talents to get at what level for companions and the various SH build variants and at what levels to re-spec (and how). I re-spec'd everyone last night and just went with what was available and best suited for where I'm at in the game. For example, I'm at level 6 so instead of getting Stealth for Varric, I went with Blindside.  Currently your builds just list every talent and not when to grab them. Not a knock, just a suggestion. :)

ezrafetch wrote...

What in particular?  I can give more advice if you decide on a particular SH/X/X build and if you have a particular party composition you wanted.  Stagger combos usually start with either Shield Bash or Cleave, Brittles usually start with Petrify, Winter's Grasp or Cone of Cold.  I don't really like using Disorient that much, to be honest, it's too much of a point sink.  Stagger finishers are Chain Lightning, Hemorrhage and Fist of the Maker, Brittle finishers are Archer's Lance, Bursting Arrow and Mighty Blow.


I'll get back to you after I put some time in and see how I'm playing. I wanted to go with Primal to take early advantage of Stagger (Pommel Strike + Pommel Blow ((Aveline)) and Chain Lighting + Chain Reaction). Since I don't have access to any specializations, I also went with Elemental seconday (Winter's Blast, Fireball, Pyromancer - due to mage pack gear) and then Heal.  This seemed to be the only way to use CCC at lvl 6 with my current group. I just found a legnthy guide on setting up tactics which is confusing ATM but I've got faith I'll get it soon enough. I prefer pause and play, which seems harder to do with DA2 but wanted to at least set up Tactics for CCC.  Will tactics trigger if your controlling the charcter and the ability is up or are they only for AI controlled characters?

I really like using party buffs / debuffs but with the new way sustainables work, this seems less feasible. As a SH, would you suggest against giving up some secondary damage for party buffs like Heroric Aura + Valliant and Haste (when called for)? I don't plan on getting Second Chance so that's an extra point for somewhere.

ezrafetch wrote...

You're welcome, I love guide writing, for some dumb reason.  You want Magic at least to be 42 for the best staves.  The rest depends on what trees you take.  If you take Elemental, it's not wise to stack crit outside of the boots and rings, since you get such hefty damage bonuses from other items, which leaves you at 42 Magic/32 Willpower minimum requirements.  I'm no crit build expert, that's mr_afk, I'd ask him about his build specifics (at least stat/gear-wise).  My general opinion is, though, that it's probably not worth it to go maxing Dex/Cun like a Rogue.  Stack Magic to about 60-65, Cunning to about 20-25, and Dex after that.  You'll still have a pretty good Magic score, then you'll crit probably around 50% given the rest of your party, and with a reasonable Cunning score you'll get some improved numbers.


I'm not looking to max Dex / Cun, just get a bit of a boost in my Crit % / DMG.  Either way though, it sounds like I shouldnt invest anything into those until I've at least got Magic and Willpower to 42/32 respectivly? Instead of alternating every level or something?

Thanks again!

I love your sig BTW. I've got a statue depicting that scene on my mantel.

Bearbeitet von tristax78, 06 Mai 2011 - 03:49 .


#57
tristax78

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Acccidental Double Post....

Bearbeitet von tristax78, 06 Mai 2011 - 03:46 .


#58
mr_afk

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ezrafetch wrote...

You're welcome, I love guide writing, for some dumb reason.  You want Magic at least to be 42 for the best staves.  The rest depends on what trees you take.  If you take Elemental, it's not wise to stack crit outside of the boots and rings, since you get such hefty damage bonuses from other items, which leaves you at 42 Magic/32 Willpower minimum requirements.  I'm no crit build expert, that's mr_afk, I'd ask him about his build specifics (at least stat/gear-wise).  My general opinion is, though, that it's probably not worth it to go maxing Dex/Cun like a Rogue.  Stack Magic to about 60-65, Cunning to about 20-25, and Dex after that.  You'll still have a pretty good Magic score, then you'll crit probably around 50% given the rest of your party, and with a reasonable Cunning score you'll get some improved numbers.


Hey, I see my name! :o
And yeah, guide writing is really fun - even if hardly anyone ends up reading it and you're basically writing for yourself like in my case haha 
I suppose it's sort of like a blog/record of what you're doing and helps with the whole analysing whether the build is actually optimised and working like it should.

Anyway, @tristax basically the ideal build will largely depend on what spells you're taking. It seems like you're doing the more elemental approach (e.g. fire balls, ice, electricity etc) in which case using a pure magic robe-wearing mage will yield the highest dps. This is due to the way that later-game you will have access to the robes of unblemished cleanliness and the ferryman's ring which will greatly increase your elemental damage (such that you can get up to ~+184% fire dmg). This is larger than any +%critical chance/damage will currently convey (as the stealth boots are restricted to rogues<_<).


So what I'm saying is that for an elemental build, equipping +%crit chance/damage gear is probably less effective damage-wise than equipping +%elemental gear.
Oohh, almost forgot. For the early acts (before you have access to such gear) what is a very fun way to go is to pump dex/cun to ~20 and equip the unique rogue armour (which happens to be probably the only non-rogue restricted +crit equipment...). While you may not actually do more dmg overall (until you reach level 14) you will have the fun feeling of your controller vibrating every so often and seeing large numbers appear - the joys of a crit-build!! And for the early acts it's a pretty competitive setup, even for an elemental build. Just late game you'll probably want to go into the robes/pure magic. (if you're interested just check my guide linked down below)


In terms of stats, the reason why I would recommend a full magic/con/some will for robe requirements is to do with the way that unless base damage or critical dmg(%) is really high it is always better to pump magic for damage.

A common misconception out there is that pumping cunning increases the amount of damage you do when you crit. While increasing crit dmg(%) does look nice and will increase your damage, based on the way that the actual damage you deal off a critical = base dmg+base dmg*critical dmg(%), increasing base dmg by 0.5 does more than increasing the crit dmg(%) by 1%. (In terms of actual critical dmg, each point into magic gives 0.75 base damage while cunning gives 0.5 base dmg).
Thus it is always better to pump magic or dex than cunning - unless you're a rogue with devious harm

Magic increases base dmg by 0.5 while dex increases crit chance by 1%. I could go through the maths but safe to say, that unless you have ~100 base dmg or very high crit dmage(%) it is better to pump magic than dex.
If you ever reach ~100magic (quite possible for a more glassy build) you should start pumping dexterity - as increasing critical chance is the next best way to increase dps after magic.


It's a little bit confusing at first but basically if you pump your magic and stack on +%elemental dmg you'll get to see pretty big numbers even without critting.
If you chance your mind and decide for a more physical/spirit setup then a crit-mage build should provide the better damage (as in general, pumping critical chance/dmg via items is more effective than trying to pump +%spirit via items)

Bearbeitet von mr_afk, 06 Mai 2011 - 05:28 .


#59
tristax78

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mr_afk - Thanks for the reply and it wasn't confusing at all with the way you explained it. So crit builds for a mage only come into play if your going FM/BM or SM/FM, etc. and since there isn't much gear for those specs as compared to elemental, you can take better advantage by using +crit/% gear.

I do plan on re-specing out of elemental later on when FM becoming available and going FM/Primal/SH or something like that. I'm not sue yet. I like the idea of having Spirit Bolt as a spammable talent.

Bearbeitet von tristax78, 06 Mai 2011 - 05:30 .


#60
mr_afk

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Haha no problems.
Also, a crit-mage build will work quite well for a BM/SH - the only necessary spec is blood mage as to remove the need for willpower. (though thinking about it, I suppose you could go FM/SH and just have to reduce dmg potential - which in my case would make me sad :()
You don't even have to focus on spirit/physical spells with a crit-mage build. It will still be quite effective - but less so than pure magic builds when it come down to +%elemental dmg. I use the force mage for CC, as I rely on it to prevent my glassy builds from getting damaged in the first place. If you went spirit healer you could use the +10 con to pump your stats even higher and get more dmg - but at the cost of lots of CC potential.

And since I'm all about min-maxing etc. the only reason why you would take a crit-mage build is for the increased damage from spirit staffs (and spirit bolts) and physical spells like crushing prison and haemorrhage as elemental builds will suck at those spells :P

Well, goodluck with your build!

Bearbeitet von mr_afk, 06 Mai 2011 - 05:38 .


#61
ezrafetch

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tristax78 wrote...

I haven't even gotten him yet but his brief apperance outside the Chantry left me intrigued. I'll have to look and see if I can find the optimal DPS build for him, even if Varric idealy does more damage. I'm kinda ticked at the lockpicking change since for ranged rouges, Dex seems to be what I should be pumping more into. Is there anything even worthwhile from lockpicking or should I just stop fretting over it?

If you get bored and since you love writing guides...you could add what talents to get at what level for companions and the various SH build variants and at what levels to re-spec (and how). I re-spec'd everyone last night and just went with what was available and best suited for where I'm at in the game. For example, I'm at level 6 so instead of getting Stealth for Varric, I went with Blindside.  Currently your builds just list every talent and not when to grab them. Not a knock, just a suggestion. :)


I'd say Cunning to 40 for Traps, after that just pump Dex (and add some Con so Sebby doesn't die so easy).  I'm OCD about locked chests I don't unlock, so that's what I do.  Sebby has plenty of ways to up his crit chance so I wouldn't worry about that too much.  I like getting my companion rogue's Cunning to 30 by the end of Act 1, then get Dex back up to a reasonable level then hit 40 Cunning by mid-Act 2, then pump Dex the rest of the way.

I'd always meant to get around to a better leveling flow than just winging it, perhaps I will get around to it very soon.

I'll get back to you after I put some time in and see how I'm playing. I wanted to go with Primal to take early advantage of Stagger (Pommel Strike + Pommel Blow ((Aveline)) and Chain Lighting + Chain Reaction). Since I don't have access to any specializations, I also went with Elemental seconday (Winter's Blast, Fireball, Pyromancer - due to mage pack gear) and then Heal.  This seemed to be the only way to use CCC at lvl 6 with my current group. I just found a legnthy guide on setting up tactics which is confusing ATM but I've got faith I'll get it soon enough. I prefer pause and play, which seems harder to do with DA2 but wanted to at least set up Tactics for CCC.  Will tactics trigger if your controlling the charcter and the ability is up or are they only for AI controlled characters?


Tactics will only trigger on non-controlled players, so if you want Hawke's to fire then you have to not be controlling him.  Once you get Chain Lightning + Chain Reaction and Rock Armor, you can ignore the Primal tree for a long while, actually.  It fits nicely into dumping a lot of points into the Elemental tree and picking up Elemental Mastery.

I really like using party buffs / debuffs but with the new way sustainables work, this seems less feasible. As a SH, would you suggest against giving up some secondary damage for party buffs like Heroric Aura + Valliant and Haste (when called for)? I don't plan on getting Second Chance so that's an extra point for somewhere.


Up to you.  I didn't run Aura or Haste and made it out just fine.  Only point into Creation I spent was for the basic Heal.  Haste is really just going to speed things up, and not necessarily make or break a fight on the whole if you play smart.  You can really play a SH how you want to, that's the beauty of it.  If you want to buff/debuff, go crazy.  Though, if you're skipping out on Second Chance you need to pick up another point somewhere in the tree for Vitality, unless you're skipping that too?  That's travesty, I say. ;)

I'm not looking to max Dex / Cun, just get a bit of a boost in my Crit % / DMG.  Either way though, it sounds like I shouldnt invest anything into those until I've at least got Magic and Willpower to 42/32 respectivly? Instead of alternating every level or something?


It's really up to you, I'd say once you hit mid 30s in mid Act 2 or so you can dump points into Dex/Cun before getting back to dumping points into Magic.  Just make sure your Magic level is keeping up with items and a reasonable attack score when you're thinking about dumping points into Dex/Cun.

I love your sig BTW. I've got a statue depicting that scene on my mantel.


One of my favorite passages in the Bible, period.  Definitely is one of those passages to go to if you feel down or if you feel doubt for any reason...because there is absolutely no reason to doubt, and that example is indicative of how we as people are far too fickle and refuse to keep believing even when facing the smallest of odds.  Been digging Mark 9:23-24 too lately, that's a real powerful one too.

Bearbeitet von ezrafetch, 06 Mai 2011 - 07:36 .


#62
ezrafetch

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Late, but not, uh, too late, a Sebby build: here for a Brittle exploiter and here for a non-Brittle exploiter.

Tactics are largely same as Varric's. The only major changes would be in the signature tree, and those would likely serve as:

Enemy: Attacking with a melee or ranged attack >>>> Guardian Angel
Enemy: Elite Rank or Higher >>>> Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Brittle >>>> Wounding Arrow
Enemy: Elite Rank or Higher >>>> Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Brittle >>>> Arrow of Judgment

The nice thing about Seb is that he is an additional source of Hex of Torment via Wounding Arrow. I think the tactic could use some cleaning up (SuicidalBaby?!?!?!?!?), but I'm not sure of a better way to do it outside of manually firing it. I suppose you could use Brittle to trigger it, especially since the +50% critical damage from Brittle combined with the up'd chance to crit from Righteous Chain could imply some hilarious shenanigans if either Wounding Arrow or Arrow of Judgment ended up critting.

Bearbeitet von ezrafetch, 11 Mai 2011 - 03:18 .


#63
tristax78

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Thanks for the Seb build! I've been using a lot of SuicidalBaby's tactics but for anything other than trash mobs, I enjoy micro-managing (pause and play style). Still they're nice to have and he's definitely cracked the tactics code.

I'm having a bit of a build crisis, haha. I finally got Merrill and have played with her enough to give me serious thoughts about going BM/SH/Elemental. The part that is so enticing is having the free sustainables. I mean, without putting a single point into willpower, I have her running 4 sustainables and she has more health than she knows what to do with for casting spells.

Unfortunately Merrill doesn't have access to the Creation tree or else I'd have her run Heroic / Valiant Aura as well . The only drawback I can really see for Hawk BM is having to invest in willpower still to meet gear / armor requirements. If it wasn't for that, there wouldn't be any question. To a lesser extent, having to split gear between myself and Merrill would also be an issue.

What ultimately made you decide not to go with BM as a SH? It seems like as a BM you can cast all the same spells (minus the few that go into BM), while gaining 4 active sustainables for yourself / party. I feel like I'm missing something, too good to be true syndrome :)

#64
ezrafetch

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tristax78 wrote...

What ultimately made you decide not to go with BM as a SH? It seems like as a BM you can cast all the same spells (minus the few that go into BM), while gaining 4 active sustainables for yourself / party. I feel like I'm missing something, too good to be true syndrome :)


Well, I ultimately found it to be superfluous.  My two preferred SH builds are Elemental/Primal/SH (with Blood Magic Spec) and Elemental/FM/SH (with Primal dip).  So I was spending time setting up Brittles rather often, and then on top of that I didn't find myself exploiting Staggers as much as I used to (I left it to Merrill for Chain Lightning + Chain Reaction and Crushing Prison + Paralyzing Prison, only using my Chain Lightning when her stuff was on cooldown).  When I went with FM, I was also spending most of my time using Pull + Ring and controlling the battlefield and setting it up for nukes.  So going for Paralyzing Hemorrhage was not very necessary for me.  That being said, I think it's a perfectly valid strategy to go for it, but it just isn't my preferred style of play.  I also consider the Blood Sacrifice + Grim Sacrifice to be a bit of a waste of points since you're already doing the healing, but it serves as a pinch self-Heal which can be handy if you get caught with Heal + Group Heal on cooldown, which happens more often than one thinks it should (the need is mitigated a bunch because of potions, in my opinion).

For awhile I contemplated going with 1pt into Blood Magic as my only investment in the tree but I didn't want to be bothered with switching it off and on, so I just left my BM investment (for the Ele/Pri/SH/BM build) as just the spec point for the +25 life bonus.  So you could just go with 1pt Blood Magic, it works pretty well as a second mana pool (since, admittedly, it is easy to blow through your mana pool...especially if you twinked like a champ and depended on roonz and gear to hit Willpower requirements).

Bearbeitet von ezrafetch, 12 Mai 2011 - 06:22 .


#65
tonnactus

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Near the end of the game with my spirithealer/elemental mage,is the most "relaxing" combination so far.
Healing aura with faith even allows to "tank" a little.

Bearbeitet von tonnactus, 12 Mai 2011 - 05:27 .


#66
Carmen_Willow

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For roleplay reasons, I do not play a Blood Mage. I plan to give your build a try on my next mage. It looks like a lot of fun.

#67
Abispa

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EDIT: Whoops, sorry, wrong forum. What the hell is going on here?

Bearbeitet von Abispa, 12 Mai 2011 - 11:49 .


#68
tristax78

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Ezra - Can you explain Cleave? It says it increases damage 100% for 10s. I'm assuming this is applied to activated abilities used during those 10s and auto-attacks. There is no actual cleaving, just a damage bonus?

I see the upgrade, Claymore posted almost everywhere as a must for Cross class Combo builds. Why trade a massive damage bonus for a 100% stun chance? I mean, there are a number of cheaper, easier, longer lasting ways to lock down a mob for crowd control. Wouldn't the 300% damage bonus from Mighty Blow be worth more than proc'ing a stun? Or the 200% from Scythe? Archer's Lance?

Seems like a waste of a Brittle proc but I'm obviously missing something since Claymore is pretty much universally loved.

#69
mr_afk

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It's this part which everybody loves:
Stagger chance 40% vs. normal enemies

It is one of the easiest ways to set up mass staggers and thus allow mass chain lightning/haemorrhage CCCs to be pulled off. S&S talents/pommel strike are more reliable but are harder to stagger groups and sunder is a little bit too unreliable.

The stun part is pretty useless imo.

Whoops, i'm not ezra but hope that helps :)

#70
ezrafetch

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tristax78 wrote...

Ezra - Can you explain Cleave? It says it increases damage 100% for 10s. I'm assuming this is applied to activated abilities used during those 10s and auto-attacks. There is no actual cleaving, just a damage bonus?

I see the upgrade, Claymore posted almost everywhere as a must for Cross class Combo builds. Why trade a massive damage bonus for a 100% stun chance? I mean, there are a number of cheaper, easier, longer lasting ways to lock down a mob for crowd control. Wouldn't the 300% damage bonus from Mighty Blow be worth more than proc'ing a stun? Or the 200% from Scythe? Archer's Lance?

Seems like a waste of a Brittle proc but I'm obviously missing something since Claymore is pretty much universally loved.


It is a straight damage bonus for 10s, 15s if you get Claymore.  It's an activated ability because it would be...counter-intuitive if it were a sustain that automatically shut down after some time.  There is no attack related to actually "cleaving" a guy for damage, unless you call Hawke suddenly bending over like he needs to vomit an attack, but no, it does not deal damage.

As mr_afk ninja'd, the portion of Claymore that is the meat of the pie is the 40% chance to Stagger dudes.  It's one of the most efficient ways of setting up Stagger CCCs.  The Brittle component seems like a total afterthought in the development process, anyways, so I'm not sure why it's actually there because it's virtually useless.  Because Brittle is so good though, I usually tactic in Enemy: Brittle >>>>> Skip Tactics (for Aveline) to make sure I get the chance to exploit the Brittle effect on the field.  You obviously don't have that problem with Fenris/Carver since they have Brittle exploits but yeah, Brittle is so good.

-----------------

Been thinking about going Aveline-Isabela-Varric/Sebby-Hawke or Aveline-Isabela-Merrill-Hawke (probably would have to go Elemental/FM/SH/Primal splash).  Leaning towards the former party loadout.  Set up Brittle CCC?  Yes please.  Not only for CCC but for its inherent bonus: +50% crit damage.  Setting up Brittles on Assassins into Twin Fangs auto-crits?  Yup.  Seems pretty juicy to me.  I also want to use Isabela and have her not suck.

Bearbeitet von ezrafetch, 16 Mai 2011 - 03:14 .


#71
tristax78

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Thanks. So basically hit Claymore and then something like Scatter for Aveline or Whirlwind for Fenris, anything that hits multiple mobs? The whole Brittle part was throwing me off.

OT: Why the heck did my DA2 uploaded avatar change to Varric? Don't really expect a reply just...WTF?

Bearbeitet von tristax78, 16 Mai 2011 - 05:02 .


#72
ezrafetch

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tristax78 wrote...

Thanks. So basically hit Claymore and then something like Scatter for Aveline or Whirlwind for Fenris, anything that hits multiple mobs? The whole Brittle part was throwing me off.

OT: Why the heck did my DA2 uploaded avatar change to Varric? Don't really expect a reply just...WTF?


You can do that, but you don't necessarily have to activate other abilities to get the most out of it.  Staggers will come off of auto-attacks too, so just let Aveline get to work doing whatever she does and you'll have some staggers to exploit in no time.  Same with Fenris.

#73
tristax78

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Maybe a little OT - so feel free to delete if so. Mechanics for Righteous Chain + AoJ and Unforgiving Chain + Explosive Strikes.

Once the limit of 10 auto-attacks is hit, does the bonus stay locked in at 10 until A) another non-related ability is used, thus canceling it or B) Explosive Strikes / AoJ is activated?

- OR -

Does it re-set back to 0 (after reaching 10) and start counting back up again until it's canceled or exploited by ES / AoJ?

The latter would be horrible game design, requiring an insane amount of micro-management but some of the wording for Unforgiving Chain ("for a shot time") makes me wonder whereas with Sebastian's Righteous Chain the wording makes it sound like it stays capped.

#74
SuicidalBaby

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The chain remains active for about 10 seconds after the last basic attack. So you can just auto-attack all day long with that +20% crit chance. When you hit higher levels and have reached 100% crit chance through pumping dex, precision, Valiant Aura, and the chains. Cunning becomes a dominate attribute on a pc dw at 2% per point. Normals at 15+ fall at the same rate a level 7 critter would to basic attacks. Letting you build the chain on weaker enemies and save the potent abilities for elites and higher.

Bearbeitet von SuicidialBaby, 22 Mai 2011 - 11:46 .


#75
tristax78

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SuicidialBaby wrote...

The chain remains active for about 10 seconds after the last basic attack. So you can just auto-attack all day long with that +20% crit chance. When you hit higher levels and have reached 100% crit chance through pumping dex, precision, Valiant Aura, and the chains. Cunning becomes a dominate attribute on a pc dw at 2% per point. Normals at 15+ fall at the same rate a level 7 critter would to basic attacks. Letting you build the chain on weaker enemies and save the potent abilities for elites and higher.


Just to make sure my reading comprehension isn't bugged...

- As long as you continue to auto-attack, the chain stays maxed but as soon as you stop you have about 10 seconds to activate AoJ or ES - OR - start auto-attacking again?

- You can build the chain on trash mobs and then move to a boss or elite and hit AoJ or ES and it would still proc as long as the delay wasn't over 10s?

- You don't have to execute ES or AoJ on the same mob you built the combo on?

- You can use mulitple mobs to build and maintain the combo - i.e. changing targets doesn't re-set the count?

Thanks!