23 réponses à ce sujet

[hungover]

Wish i never bought the dlc.
Sebastian is suppose to be a prince and know that freedom is the only alternative, yet he leaves me if i don't kill Anders. What a duchebag.
So he becomes useless for me and leaves my party. That kinda do the whole dlc pointless. 
(ok finding the bow quest was ok and so).

Everybody in their right mind knows that you can't control people with force, so ofcourse i side with the mages (in a real life situation i would done excatly the same. Freedom above all else.. im rp'er..)

So what am i suppose to do? i cant keep on playing that mission, so i loaded a earlier game to finish off side missions.
I dont want anyone to leave me, but after exploring different options somebody is going to leave...ME??? nobody leaves me, everybody loves me and we do magic and have fun

[PPR223]

I think not being able to convince him was a bit stupid, as the character doesn't evolve throughout the story at all. You should have been able to say something like "Would the Cleric want this?" and he goes "No" and fights with you.

Unfortunately, unless you have a pc version, you have to carry on with one less character.

[hungover]

I have the pc versin, but i dont wan't to cheat in anyway. So yes, should be that option...
Oh well i take a few days break while playing rift and pounder the situation.

[Swordfishtrombone]

I had no problem with killing Anders, while completely sympathizing and siding with the mages. Anders/Justice had become a tool of vengeance, not justice, and his actions were unpardonable and viciously cruel - resulting in the deaths of many innocents in the act itself, and many, many more in the war he triggered. Rather than dealing with the real source of the conflict - Meredith and her most fanatical followers - he goaded them into declaring all out war on mages. How is that in the best interests of the mages?

It was pure vengeance, poorly thought out, with horrible consequences - the only thing I regretted about killing Anders was that I could not do it earlier, before the attrocity.

[sylvanaerie]

Yea, and people lamented the fact that your Marysue Warden can't wave her magic wand (or whatever) and convince Alistair to change his mind about Loghain either. Because we all know, PC has the magic power of farting sunshine and rainbows out of their bum and everyone loves them and they always win and everything...
Yea.
Accept that you don't always get what you want from other people. For me that makes the story MORE not less real. Some people have crisis points/breaking points (in that the quest is aptly titled at "The Last Straw"). Just because you see the story one way doesn't mean everyone else will. As you can see on the threads many people not only chose to kill Anders at that point but also side with the templars.
On my last playthrough I was particularly evil, spared Anders and told him GTFO and when Sebastian threw his hissy fit, I watched him go with a giggle. Then I proceeded to side with the templars (try it once, it's worth it to see Cullen countermand Knight Commander Psychohosebeast's orders and spare mages in the run). Plus I got to kill Anders who was somehow beat Hawke to the gallows waiting for Hawke to 'stop' him. Yea...you can imagine that didn't go so well for the abomination...
That's what choice is all about. You have the freedom to make choices but you need to see that those choices WILL have consequences.
Sebastian leaving at that point is in his character just as Anders making one last stand for the mages is in his. Though I half expected him to just high tail it out of there.

[Elessara]

I don't agree that we should have been able to convince him to side with the PC if we don't kill Anders but the fact that we can't does underscore that Sebastian did not evolve as a character through the game.

Or to put it more simply:

Act 1
Seb: My family was murdered! ZOMG VENGEANCE!!
Elthina: Vengeance is wrong!
Seb: Screw that!

Act 2
Seb: Ooo I was wrong about that whole revenge thing oops my bad. Can I come back to the Chantry now?
Elthina: *facepalms* No, you didn't really learn anything.

Act 3
Seb: Elthina is murdered! ZOMG VENGEANCE!!

[Grymgris]

Did`nt care that it was`nt possible to convince him to stay, although i would have liked to be given the option to kill the little bastard ^^

[PPR223]

The most annoying thing about Sebastian, is why they didn't have him try and kill Anders. I think it was more to do with poor writing than blaming it on the character.

Modifié par PPR223, 31 mars 2011 - 09:27 .

[dgcatanisiri]

That Sebastian doesn't learn anything, that his views always change with the direction of the wind, is part of his character. That's what Elthina had been attempting to get him to realize. He swears himself to a cause for as long as it suits his purposes, then jumps on another bandwagon. Some people grow over the course of ten years. Others stagnate and stay the same.

But even if he's going to ignore it, I wanted to be able to point out how Elthina would never want someone killed in her name. So that's one complaint with it. But I don't mind that he didn't change. Some people just don't learn.

[sylvanaerie]

PPR223 wrote...

The most annoying thing about Sebastian, is why they didn't have him try and kill Anders. I think it was more to do with poor writing than blaming it on the character.

I think it had more to do with "giving the player the choice" than taking the choice out of the player's hand and having Sebastian murder knife him.  And at that point had Sebastian tried to kill Anders in a straight up fight a lot of players would have just killed him making it less a choice and more a "you left me no choice, ya mook".
I could just imagine if they did something like that the board servers wouldn't be able to handle the overload of complaints heaped on Bioware for that.  There would be at least 2000 threads of "Why did Bioware make me kill "___" just to satisfy "____"?"
Besides, 3 years later, Hawke may have even been Viscount some of that time too depending on your choices and there was no army invading Kirkwall from Starkhaven.
It was said in grief/anger in the heat of the moment and not truly an option (esp since he wasn't prince anyway).

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 31 mars 2011 - 10:30 .

[Deathofhams]

I don't know, I liked his stand. As someone who was instinctively going to spare Anders, Sebastian- especially his threat to bring Starkhaven against Kirkwall- made me pause for thought. His quests definitely gave the Grand Cleric some more personality, as well. And they let us have a chat with Leliana. That's always good.

[Downtown1]

Yeah I was thinking, finally Sebastian has some balls and he's going to retake his city after sitting around for 7 years.

Then it turns out the Champion leaves Kirkwall anyway... so Sebastian conquering Kirkwall wouldn't make much sense revenge-wise, if it's only Anders he's after.

[Kartikeya]

Shale wasn't very happy with you if you wanted to keep the Anvil of the Void. And that wasn't at the end of the game either. Heck, it could be the very first of the treaty quests you did.

I object to the notion that characters should always bend to the whim of the player character. Especially when they've just seen their mother figure of seven years or more get blown to bits by the guy the player character is sparing.

(And I spared Anders, for the record)

[Arppis]

Actualy I wish they would have made him a tank. He would have been MUCH more useful that way. Aveline is the only REAL choice when you are not playing as tank yourself.

[Torax]

So you are basically unhappy with having to lose yet another rogue (You have up to 4 if your Character is one) over losing a mage? Now if you are a mage. You could already be the healer. So losing Anders is no big deal. He's basically asking to die. He deserves it. If you are worried about a more harder difficulty version? Make Bethany a Grey Warden so that she returns to you really fast after Anders' death. Then Sebastian can help you and your sister through the end.

Sebastian watched as his home and 2nd mother die. He sees the monster that did it right in front him. Would Hawke have been so accepting if (s)he watched Quinten lob of his mothers head, then Varric goes "We're friends. You can't kill him."? Probably not.

Modifié par Torax, 01 avril 2011 - 07:28 .

[Oneiropolos]

Why Sebastian doesn't kill Anders himself, Gameplay reason:

Because he's DLC. And he wouldn't miss. You DID see his arrow at the beginning nailing that paper back to the chanters board, right? Sebastian would have an arrow through Anders' head before anyone could turn around. And that wouldn't leave much choice for people who wanted to leave Anders alive at that point. You'd have to never recruit Sebastian AT ALL. At least he makes you make the call at the end of the game, and honestly, as YOU are the one Sebastian thinks should be Viscount and YOU are the one Sebastian is looking to as an example of handling issues...he's also looking to you to... ironically in the case of Anders... deal out justice. There isn't time for a trial and Anders doesn't bother going "Uh... I didn't do it." He does it right in front of you and then he SAYS he did it and he should die for it. Think of the Leandra quest, if you had the option to kill Quentin AGAIN after Leandra died, if he was just talking about how her death furthered his agenda...most people would go "Heck yes! DIE!" Very few people would go, "Hmmm.. But he probably has some goodness behind all that insanity." Even Aveline, the representative of the law,casts her vote against Anders. Varric can't even bring himself to speak up for Anders. There ain't time for a trial and something has to be done with Anders.You can bring him along, but in real life, I'd wonder about bringing along someone who wants to destroy any compromise. I mean, what, is he going to decide to kill me too if I decide to spare some Templars?

Sebastian, plot wise, can't kill Anders because he -would- succeed in killing Anders. Though I think one could advocate that we should be able to say, "Sebastian...it's your choice." In that case, if you're close friends with Sebastian and he's decided not to return to Starkhaven to rule, I would see it possible he would choose to spare Anders even in his grief. If you rivaled him and challenged him to be a leader, he'd probably definitely end Anders. If you didn't give Sebastian a say in it, then he could give the threatening speech. I think this would have been the method that would have made more people view the situation more favorably. But expecting Sebastian to just pick up his bow and go after Anders himself is silly unless it was something -we- prompted. Because in 10/10 cases, you'd end up with dead Anders just for having the DLC. That doesn't quite work out either.

[Solmanian]

sebby is a sub-par rogue... so i never use him if i can help it, i bought the dlc for the extra missions. as for the self righteus ****** (u can choose wether i mean anders or sebby): stay, leave, watever... i can find someone better

[Back2basics]

He isn't useless, its your choice if he leaves or not. If you don't want him to leave then kill Anders, he deserves to die anyways. You can't please everyone. Put yourself in his shoes, Grand Cleric Elthina was pretty much a mother figure to him ever since he moved away from home and joined the chantry. If she was slain by an abomination of a mage for no reason but to provoke a war wouldn't you want revenge, i know i would.

[sylvanaerie]

Kartikeya wrote...

Shale wasn't very happy with you if you wanted to keep the Anvil of the Void. And that wasn't at the end of the game either. Heck, it could be the very first of the treaty quests you did.

I object to the notion that characters should always bend to the whim of the player character. Especially when they've just seen their mother figure of seven years or more get blown to bits by the guy the player character is sparing.

(And I spared Anders, for the record)

Actually its more like 15 years.  He tells you in one conversation he's been away from Starkhaven for 15 years.  Now how much of that was in Elthina's care he doesn't elaborate but that's a long time, at least half his life.  Elthina was all the family he had left.

[MICHELLE7]

I hated the Sebastion dlc...the only good thing about it is Leliana. He's annoying as can be...if you listen to some of his comments around Kirkwall he's still a spoiled bratty rich kid...he's learned nothing...very arrogant. His threat at the end to bring back an army is hilarious considering that according to the codex he had trouble raising an army to take back his throne...what army is he gonna raise to take down the mage rebellion. He was kinda a wimp if you ask me.

[Pzykozis]

Seb bringing up the ultimatum just made me want to pull out the murder knife on him... threaten me will you? I never even used him aside from his personal quests so he was a non entity for me. Then again my hawke wasn't going to allow the templars to do anything to his sister and given how he's had to live only has hatred for the templars and chantry anyway.

Protect me and mine, Seb threatened to attack me with 'his' army and wanted me to kill one of mine... it was never going to work.

[Bayz]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Yea, and people lamented the fact that your Marysue Warden can't wave her magic wand (or whatever) and convince Alistair to change his mind about Loghain either. Because we all know, PC has the magic power of farting sunshine and rainbows out of their bum and everyone loves them and they always win and everything...

The very image of this is...most amusing. Add Unicorns, Ponnys and apple pies and you got how  see my pc (And puppies!! don't forget the puppies!!)

Kartikeya wrote...

Shale wasn't very happy with you if you
wanted to keep the Anvil of the Void. And that wasn't at the end of the
game either. Heck, it could be the very first of the treaty quests you
did.

Yeah she wasn't, like  in a "You...you...you...PIGEON!" (rage) kind of way. Sames goes to unhardened Leliana and Wynne in the sacred Ashes and people still don't get it. Is like going to the Vatican and  getting upset because they don't let you the pieces of the holy cross as toothpicks.

Arppis wrote...



Actualy I wish they would have made him a
tank. He would have been MUCH more useful that way. Aveline is the only
REAL choice when you are not playing as tank yourself.

Despite Fenris hasn't really dissapointed me since I started spending whole level points in Constitution, Amen to that brother. That said the only  thing I miss from the DA:O combat system is swithching between weapons in combat...would like to be able to do that with all the chars...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Actually its more like 15 years.  He
tells you in one conversation he's been away from Starkhaven for 15
years.  Now how much of that was in Elthina's care he doesn't elaborate
but that's a long time, at least half his life.  Elthina was all the
family he had left.

Amen. To put a reeal life unfortunate example, 9/11:

1) For Al Quaeda it was a noble act of sacrifice

2) For the muslim world (mostly) was a face slap and "Ohh crap, nothing good can come from this" moment

3) For the world was an abhorrent act of terrorism

4) For the americans was an attack to themselves

5) For the New Yorkers was problably one of the worst tragedies to be remembered generations onward

6) I can't start to imagine what kind of hell the familiars of people who died in the WTC was.

The mages are in category 2), the Templars between 4) and 5) but Seb is straight in 6). I think I can agree with him wanting Anders dead regardless of the PC's cunning or coonversational habilities.

Modifié par Bayz, 01 avril 2011 - 12:36 .

[Wulfram]

I don't mind him wanting Anders dead - I've yet to spare him in my playthroughs so far - but I wish he didn't take over that scene quite so much. Meredith, Orsino and the Champion spend too much time standing around listening to him.

[Suron]

yep $7 for another archer, and you can't even "recruit" him until the 2nd act.

And his "the fade is no place for a man of faith" crap was just cheap.

thanks BioWare...next time spend less time on EA's lap and more time making a companion worth paying for