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[Mipharos]

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

Sebastian gets progressively more jerky and whiny over the course of the game. The bastard even tries persuading Fenris to help him rat Anders and Merrill out to the Templars during party banter. Even Fenris, with all his hatred for mages, turns him down.

You do realize that Anders is essentially the same way the "entire" game, just swap the mage hate for "Chantry/Templar"...."Quote: Hey look...Another copy of Ander's manifesto".

And then he actually uses you in the end...

By far the toughest decision in the game though IMO... Its compelling enough to make you pause that first time, possibly second, and leave you second guessing about how you'd deal with it in real life. In the end though, looking at the big picture, neither side is right and neither side is wrong.  

Things are out of balance and all as a result of a few power hungry people pushing the right buttons, and setting the stage for war... Sad, but there is our real life parallel....

Modifié par Mipharos, 01 avril 2011 - 03:19 .

[Seblin]

I wish I could have thrown my dagger into his eye when he threatened to bring an army from Starkhaven.

Sarcastic Hawke could have said something like "Where's your Maker now?"

Now that would have been more satisfying.

[Fruit of the Doom]

Mipharos wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

Sebastian gets progressively more jerky and whiny over the course of the game. The bastard even tries persuading Fenris to help him rat Anders and Merrill out to the Templars during party banter. Even Fenris, with all his hatred for mages, turns him down.

You do realize that Anders is essentially the same way the "entire" game, just swap the mage hate for "Chantry/Templar"...."Quote: Hey look...Another copy of Ander's manifesto".

And then he actually uses you in the end...

By far the toughest decision in the game though IMO... Its compelling enough to make you pause that first time, possibly second, and leave you second guessing about how you'd deal with it in real life. In the end though, looking at the big picture, neither side is right and neither side is wrong.  

Things are out of balance and all as a result of a few power hungry people pushing the right buttons, and setting the stage for war... Sad, but there is our real life parallel....

Except Anders is possessed by a crazed spirit of vengeance () while Sebastian is just purely natural jackass.

[vocalemuse]

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

Mipharos wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

Sebastian gets progressively more jerky and whiny over the course of the game. The bastard even tries persuading Fenris to help him rat Anders and Merrill out to the Templars during party banter. Even Fenris, with all his hatred for mages, turns him down.

You do realize that Anders is essentially the same way the "entire" game, just swap the mage hate for "Chantry/Templar"...."Quote: Hey look...Another copy of Ander's manifesto".

And then he actually uses you in the end...

By far the toughest decision in the game though IMO... Its compelling enough to make you pause that first time, possibly second, and leave you second guessing about how you'd deal with it in real life. In the end though, looking at the big picture, neither side is right and neither side is wrong.  

Things are out of balance and all as a result of a few power hungry people pushing the right buttons, and setting the stage for war... Sad, but there is our real life parallel....

Except Anders is possessed by a crazed spirit of vengeance () while Sebastian is just purely natural jackass.

Yeah, except that you can't use the 'oh he is possessed by Justice/Vengeance' as a scapegoat -- Anders says the idea was his entirely and even in Awakening he gets pissed off if you ever help the Chantry in any way.

So as Fenris tells him, "Mages in glass houses shouldn't throw fireballs."

Modifié par vocalemuse, 01 avril 2011 - 03:53 .

[Fruit of the Doom]

vocalemuse wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

Mipharos wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

Sebastian gets progressively more jerky and whiny over the course of the game. The bastard even tries persuading Fenris to help him rat Anders and Merrill out to the Templars during party banter. Even Fenris, with all his hatred for mages, turns him down.

You do realize that Anders is essentially the same way the "entire" game, just swap the mage hate for "Chantry/Templar"...."Quote: Hey look...Another copy of Ander's manifesto".

And then he actually uses you in the end...

By far the toughest decision in the game though IMO... Its compelling enough to make you pause that first time, possibly second, and leave you second guessing about how you'd deal with it in real life. In the end though, looking at the big picture, neither side is right and neither side is wrong.  

Things are out of balance and all as a result of a few power hungry people pushing the right buttons, and setting the stage for war... Sad, but there is our real life parallel....

Except Anders is possessed by a crazed spirit of vengeance () while Sebastian is just purely natural jackass.

Yeah, except that you can't use the 'oh he is possessed by Justice/Vengeance' as a scapegoat -- Anders says the idea was his entirely and even in Awakening he gets pissed off if you ever help the Chantry in any way.

So as Fenris tells him, "Mages in glass houses shouldn't throw fireballs."

"Anders says the idea was his entirely"

No, he does not.   Stop making bull**** up.  Watch the damn link.  Justice was growing more and more oppresive, taking complete control over him more often and for longer periods of time.  Anders doesn't even have any memory of the times when it happens.  His psyche was obviously being twisted.

[Mipharos]

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

vocalemuse wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

Mipharos wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

Sebastian gets progressively more jerky and whiny over the course of the game. The bastard even tries persuading Fenris to help him rat Anders and Merrill out to the Templars during party banter. Even Fenris, with all his hatred for mages, turns him down.

You do realize that Anders is essentially the same way the "entire" game, just swap the mage hate for "Chantry/Templar"...."Quote: Hey look...Another copy of Ander's manifesto".

And then he actually uses you in the end...

By far the toughest decision in the game though IMO... Its compelling enough to make you pause that first time, possibly second, and leave you second guessing about how you'd deal with it in real life. In the end though, looking at the big picture, neither side is right and neither side is wrong.  

Things are out of balance and all as a result of a few power hungry people pushing the right buttons, and setting the stage for war... Sad, but there is our real life parallel....

Except Anders is possessed by a crazed spirit of vengeance () while Sebastian is just purely natural jackass.

Yeah, except that you can't use the 'oh he is possessed by Justice/Vengeance' as a scapegoat -- Anders says the idea was his entirely and even in Awakening he gets pissed off if you ever help the Chantry in any way.

So as Fenris tells him, "Mages in glass houses shouldn't throw fireballs."

"Anders says the idea was his entirely"

No, he does not.   Stop making bull**** up.  Watch the damn link.  Justice was growing more and more oppresive, taking complete control over him more often and for longer periods of time.  Anders doesn't even have any memory of the times when it happens.  His psyche was obviously being twisted.

Hrm... So, I've played the apostate survivor many many times and if there is one thing I can be sure of, it is intent.  If you kill Anders, his dying breath is spent smiling at what he accomplished... He had planned all along to use the demon to accomplish this goal at any cost.

He felt it was right and that it needed to be done... All stated by him, not the demon, not twisted and not "made-up".  He was the mage casting the stones in the glass house...

going back to my original point in comparison to Vael, Vael's behavior at the end is no different.  It is what he felt passionate about, what he felt needed to be done.

Modifié par Mipharos, 01 avril 2011 - 04:05 .

[vocalemuse]

Fruit of the Doom wrote...
"Anders says the idea was his entirely"

No, he does not.   Stop making bull**** up.  Watch the damn link.  Justice was growing more and more oppresive, taking complete control over him more often and for longer periods of time.  Anders doesn't even have any memory of the times when it happens.  His psyche was obviously being twisted.

Um, yes, he does. Before you decide to kill him, pick the option, "Is this because of Justice?" and he'll say, "No, this was my idea and my doing," or something like that. You cannot blame Justice just because of what you THINK is going on.

So I'm not making bull**** up, tyvm. Get over your bias and you'll see that.

Modifié par vocalemuse, 01 avril 2011 - 04:06 .

[Chuvvy]

Considering Sebastien got packaged as DLC I doubt it will have any impact whatsoever.

[Fruit of the Doom]

vocalemuse wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...
"Anders says the idea was his entirely"

No, he does not.   Stop making bull**** up.  Watch the damn link.  Justice was growing more and more oppresive, taking complete control over him more often and for longer periods of time.  Anders doesn't even have any memory of the times when it happens.  His psyche was obviously being twisted.

Um, yes, he does. Before you decide to kill him, pick the option, "Is this because of Justice?" and he'll say, "No, this was my idea and my doing," or something like that. You cannot blame Justice just because of what you THINK is going on.

So I'm not making bull**** up, tyvm. Get over your bias and you'll see that.

Yes, completely ignore everything that is said throughout the entire damn game and conclude that Anders and Justice are separate entities and that Anders came up with the plan all by himself.  How about you use your brain for a moment or two.

[Mipharos]

Slidell505 wrote...

Considering Sebastien got packaged as DLC I doubt it will have any impact whatsoever.

For at least one of my play-throughs, I certainly hope it doesn't

[Fruit of the Doom]

I just watched it, as you suggested, and Anders said that he and Justice are one. Not that it was "his idea entirely."

So, once again, cut the bullcrap.

[Mipharos]

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

I just watched it, as you suggested, and Anders said that he and Justice are one. Not that it was "his idea entirely."

So, once again, cut the bullcrap.

I'd encourage you to explore all his dialogue options before you narrow your view to what you see on youtube. As for me, this has already degraded beyond my original point, so I'm done

[vocalemuse]

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

vocalemuse wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...
"Anders says the idea was his entirely"

No, he does not.   Stop making bull**** up.  Watch the damn link.  Justice was growing more and more oppresive, taking complete control over him more often and for longer periods of time.  Anders doesn't even have any memory of the times when it happens.  His psyche was obviously being twisted.

Um, yes, he does. Before you decide to kill him, pick the option, "Is this because of Justice?" and he'll say, "No, this was my idea and my doing," or something like that. You cannot blame Justice just because of what you THINK is going on.

So I'm not making bull**** up, tyvm. Get over your bias and you'll see that.

Yes, completely ignore everything that is said throughout the entire damn game and conclude that Anders and Justice are separate entities and that Anders came up with the plan all by himself.  How about you use your brain for a moment or two.

I never said they weren't one, but you admitting they are means that you can't blame Justice for it. Anders asked him to help him right the wrongs mages were going through, it was his choice and his idea to take him into his body. So yes, this IS because of Anders --- he even says that he corrupted Justice into a spirit of Vengeance because he said he has so much anger toward the Chantry and Templars.

I am using my brain, how about you try doing the same?  Try playing the game instead of getting your 'facts' off youtube.

Modifié par vocalemuse, 01 avril 2011 - 04:13 .

[Fruit of the Doom]

The person on YouTube explored all his dialogue options, just as I did when I played it.

Why don't you go see for yourself?

[vocalemuse]

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

The person on YouTube explored all his dialogue options, just as I did when I played it.

Why don't you go see for yourself?

Apparently you didn't. I have played it too and I seem to remember a lot of conversation that you say is "bullcrap".

But it's obvious you're going to think what fits your bias, so whatever floats your boat.

Modifié par vocalemuse, 01 avril 2011 - 04:16 .

[Fruit of the Doom]

vocalemuse wrote...
I never said they weren't one, but you admitting they are means that you can't blame Justice for it. Anders asked him to help him right the wrongs mages were going through, it was his choice and his idea to take him into his body. So yes, this IS because of Anders --- he even says that he corrupted Justice into a spirit of Vengeance because he said he has so much anger toward the Chantry and Templars.

I am using my brain, how about you try doing the same? 

Yeah, that's why Justice is able to force him to do things against his will and leave blank spots in his memory.

It's obvious that Justice is more at fault.  Anders was not nearly that radical in Awakening, and he was never "anti-Chantry" so stop making that up as well.  He even cites the Chant of Light more than few times, and complains that the Templars are violating Chantry law.  He/Justice saw destroying the Chantry as a means to an end, not because he hated the Chantry.

[Fruit of the Doom]

vocalemuse wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

The person on YouTube explored all his dialogue options, just as I did when I played it.

Why don't you go see for yourself?

Apparently you didn't. I have played it too and I seem to remember a lot of conversation that you say is "bullcrap".

But it's obvious you're going to think what fits your bias, so whatever floats your boat.

Here watch for yourself.  But I bet now you are going to claim this is a modded game or something, right?

Maybe YouTube has a Pro-Anders bias too?

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Anders made the bomb. Weather it's Justice or Anders pushing the button, Anders made and set it.

[vocalemuse]

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

vocalemuse wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

The person on YouTube explored all his dialogue options, just as I did when I played it.

Why don't you go see for yourself?

Apparently you didn't. I have played it too and I seem to remember a lot of conversation that you say is "bullcrap".

But it's obvious you're going to think what fits your bias, so whatever floats your boat.

Here watch for yourself.  But I bet now you are going to claim this is a modded game or something, right?

Maybe YouTube has a Pro-Anders bias too?

Yeah, you're the one who is making crap up here... not me. I'll leave you to your ****fest.

[Fruit of the Doom]

vocalemuse wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

vocalemuse wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

The person on YouTube explored all his dialogue options, just as I did when I played it.

Why don't you go see for yourself?

Apparently you didn't. I have played it too and I seem to remember a lot of conversation that you say is "bullcrap".

But it's obvious you're going to think what fits your bias, so whatever floats your boat.

Here watch for yourself.  But I bet now you are going to claim this is a modded game or something, right?

Maybe YouTube has a Pro-Anders bias too?

Yeah, you're the one who is making crap up here... not me. I'll leave you to your ****fest.

Then show me the link to this magical dialogue option no one else can find.

[lazuli]

Anders and Justice are completely inseparable now. They are the same character. The only reason we even refer to Anders as "Anders" is because the physical form, what we see, is Anders. Their minds, as Anders says and as the game makes abundantly clear, are one. You can't blame a personality change as great as what happened after Awakening on the man losing his cat, after all.

[Fruit of the Doom]

lazuli wrote...

Anders and Justice are completely inseparable now. They are the same character. The only reason we even refer to Anders as "Anders" is because the physical form, what we see, is Anders. Their minds, as Anders says and as the game makes abundantly clear, are one. You can't blame a personality change as great as what happened after Awakening on the man losing his cat, after all.

Apparently they are not so indivisible as Anders knows, because Justice gets stronger and stronger and starts taking complete control later on.  Skip to 1:30 in this video:



Hawke almost persuades Anders to stop what he is planning.  Anders starts to change his mind, and say there is still time to stop it, when Justice suddenly takes over.

Modifié par Fruit of the Doom, 01 avril 2011 - 04:25 .

[vocalemuse]

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

vocalemuse wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

vocalemuse wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

The person on YouTube explored all his dialogue options, just as I did when I played it.

Why don't you go see for yourself?

Apparently you didn't. I have played it too and I seem to remember a lot of conversation that you say is "bullcrap".

But it's obvious you're going to think what fits your bias, so whatever floats your boat.

Here watch for yourself.  But I bet now you are going to claim this is a modded game or something, right?

Maybe YouTube has a Pro-Anders bias too?

Yeah, you're the one who is making crap up here... not me. I'll leave you to your ****fest.

Then show me the link to this magical dialogue option no one else can find.

It's not on youtube, smart ass, or if it is I can't find anyone who picks it before stabbing him.

Just go back to that scene, pick the dialogue option, "Is this the will of Justice?" when it comes up and you'll see.

[Fruit of the Doom]

vocalemuse wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

vocalemuse wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

vocalemuse wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

The person on YouTube explored all his dialogue options, just as I did when I played it.

Why don't you go see for yourself?

Apparently you didn't. I have played it too and I seem to remember a lot of conversation that you say is "bullcrap".

But it's obvious you're going to think what fits your bias, so whatever floats your boat.

Here watch for yourself.  But I bet now you are going to claim this is a modded game or something, right?

Maybe YouTube has a Pro-Anders bias too?

Yeah, you're the one who is making crap up here... not me. I'll leave you to your ****fest.

Then show me the link to this magical dialogue option no one else can find.

It's not on youtube, smart ass, or if it is I can't find anyone who picks it before stabbing him.

Just go back to that scene, pick the dialogue option, "Is this the will of Justice?" when it comes up and you'll see.

The person in the video I linked picked it.  Why don't you actually watch it instead of droning on with your delusions?

[vocalemuse]

Fruit of the Doom wrote...
The person in the video I linked picked it.  Why don't you actually watch it instead of droning on with your delusions?

Yeah... read your reply to lazuli, then tell me again who is delusional.

Modifié par vocalemuse, 01 avril 2011 - 04:29 .