377 réponses à ce sujet

[embert1ger]

Does anyone else find it messed up that Merril would rather see her whole clan slaughtered than admit she was wrong and leave peacefully?

Seriously, killing her entire clan gives +10 friendship while leaving them peacefully gives +15 rivalry.  At this point, I'm done trying to appease her stubborn delusions to gain her friendship.  I'm begging to supsect she's been possessed this whole time.

[Hrodric]

It is said that pride fell the Devil himself.

[sylvanaerie]

I don't notice. That late in the game (this is one of the last quests I do prior to the end) all companions I am going to end with are at max approval. Hence, no increase or decrease. That's kinda weird...but maybe she's thinking Hawke agrees with her clan at that point...?

[caradoc2000]

embert1ger wrote...

Seriously, killing her entire clan gives +10 friendship while leaving them peacefully gives +15 rivalry.

If you already have a full friendship with her (which you should by act 3), you won't get the rivalry hit.

[Lithuasil]

She's not the one to fault for what happened, and at the point of conversation, she doesn't know her clan is dumb enough to attack

[Revelator9]

im sorry but I must agree. everything you think you'd get friendship for just ******'s her off. totally ass backwards. though I will say ive had a game where I got friendship and one game as a rival, and her cut scene's make WAY more sense as a rival.

[GSSAGE7]

You don't get rivalry for getting out of it without fighting her clan. You get rivalry for saying her blood magic killed the Keeper.

[sphinxess]

You get rivalry points if you believe she is wrong and try to protect her from doing something stupid <tell the clan you take responisibility>- friendship for believing she knows what shes doing.

The keeper falling for what the demon tells her <and getting possessed> and the clan for going into a panic <based a lot on the keeper telling them how dangerous Merrill is> is not her fault

Modifié par sphinxess, 31 mars 2011 - 10:27 .

[Haasth]

I just know that I got friendship with her like really quickly into the game and then never gained any points anymore, likely because all of the options lead to friendship points. And I solved it the 'peaceful' way. So I didn't kill her clan, and still got her approval. 
How dare you call her heartless! 

[reservedegotist]

Basically agree with her, don't be overly violent, and don't try to protect her like a teddy bear and you'll get friendship.

[The Angry One]

Let's see, her clan stupidly attacks one of the most prominent and powerful people in the region because they hate Merril, die for their stupidity and you have helped her.
Why shouldn't that gain friendship? It's not their fault they're a bunch of aggressive, prejudiced morons. Hell you're probably doing the elven gene pool a favour.

[Chuvvy]

reservedegotist wrote...

Basically agree with her, don't be overly violent, and don't try to protect her like a teddy bear and you'll get friendship.

But she is a teddy bear.

[0x30A88]

Getting friendship is not always by doing the right thing.

The keeper is to be blamed IMO, since she took the blow for Merrill, when we could have just fought it like another boss creature, since we fight at least 2 other of those demons in the game.

[The Angry One]

Filament wrote...

Yeah I had her at max friendship already, so no rivalry points. That line didn't really say what I wanted it to say though. It says "I'll take responsibility" and then Hawke ends up saying "It's all Merrill's fault, I'll keep her away from you guys from now on." I'm just like, what the hell, how's that taking responsibility?

It means "I'll take responsibility for Merril" not "It was my fault" because it wasn't and even the idiot Dalish wouldn't believe you had a hand in that alone.

[reservedegotist]

Slidell505 wrote...

But she is a teddy bear.

This kind.  She's wiped my party before when she "betrayed" me in the fade.  Reloaded and made sure to give her a rude awakening.

On Merrill, when it comes to her quests, you really just have to believe in her despite her extreme methods for friendship.  For rivaly you have to convince her that her path is too extreme.  And for RP reasons, my warrior/rogue Hawke really doesn't give a crap.  Or he's blinded by romance.

[Rifneno]

reservedegotist wrote...

On Merrill, when it comes to her quests, you really just have to believe in her despite her extreme methods for friendship.  For rivaly you have to convince her that her path is too extreme.  And for RP reasons, my warrior/rogue Hawke really doesn't give a crap.  Or he's blinded by romance.

But is there a way to go where you tell her she's so stupid that the Chantry should declare it an official miracle that she survived past age 12 without ever picking up a black mamba and going "this poor cat is so skinny!"?  Because that's the path I want.  The biggest plot hole isn't dead characters appearing or timeline errors, it's the fact Darwinism didn't claim Merrill in about 20 years living in forests full of poisonous flora and deadly predators.  No, seriously, Merrill is beyond belief.  You want to tell me that all the bad mages are slitting their wrists and using their blood for mana everyday without dropping dead from blood loss?  Fine, I'll accept that.  You want me to believe a fully grown adult who doesn't own 3 buckets for drool thinks that a mugging is a "welcome to the neighborhood" greeting?  No, I do not accept that!

*deep breath*  /nerdrage off.

[Reidbynature]

If there's anything I've learned from previous Merrill threads is that she was 'smart' for killing killing her clan, trying to summon demons and using blood magic etc and that in no way did any of Merrill's action lead to anyone's death, but a whole bunch of people died in unlrelated accidents (by the way, I've seen that film. It's called 'The Omen'  ) At least that's what many Merrill defenders will claim.

I wonder. Was Orsino smart or just fortunate that Hawke was there to kill him if the player chose the mages? 

Modifié par Reidbynature, 01 avril 2011 - 06:14 .

[The Angry One]

Erm, no. People did not die because of Merril. They died because their responses to Merril were idiotic.
It's not Merril's fault she grew up with morons.

[Reidbynature]

Ta dah

[Kartikeya]

I think I've come to the conclusion that Merrill threads are the new Loghain threads. The suggestion that Merrill may have been mistaken/wrong/chosen poorly/not been thinking clearly/perhaps not have made the best life choices is immediately wrong. Anything that she says is taken as fact (for instance, her comments on spirits). Anyone who says anything to contradict what she says is ignorant. Anyone who questions Merrill in the game is automatically wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Marethari is the new Cailan, thus, she is stupid, irresponsible, and deserves to die. Oh, and her grieving clan also deserve to die, because again, they're stupid and wrong wrong wrong wrong and worried by what Merrill is doing. Unjustly.

The demon is always lying to Marethari. Marethari is always just an idiot for believing it. Merrill would've been able to handle things if stupid Marethari had just kept her big nose out. We know this because Merrill says so (except for that part where she brings Hawke along just in case, but that's okay because Hawke is the player character and can kill anything).

You know, I liked this series of quests, but man. It drives me crazy when people insist on taking a complicated situation and breaking it down into the most ridiculously simple black and white premise imaginable. It drives me nuts when people decide that two fleshed out characters, both with good and bad traits (and quite honestly in this case, the problem is they are TOO MUCH ALIKE) must break down into 'the person who is right' and 'the stupid stupid person who just gets in the way and deserves what they get'. I like Merrill. I like Marethari. I like Loghain too, but I can't stand to read any thread about him, specifically for this reason.

[The Angry One]

Merril never says that the demon hasn't lied to her, Merril's comments on spirits are backed up by what happens to Anders, Marethari may not be stupid but she did jump to conclusions and spread ignorance among her clan who also jump to conclusions and become so idiotically hostile that even the civilians attack you suicidally.

And the point about the demon is that whether or not Merril would've overcome it or not it was Merril's mistake to make, not Marethari's. She jumped in between them and compromised everything due to her overprotectiveness.

[Kartikeya]

I'm not sure how Merrill's comments (specifically the 'spirits and demons are totes the same' one that I see being brought out a lot) are proven by what happens to Anders. She tells him that she, at least, always knew that they were all dangerous--on which, I will agree, they ARE all dangerous, but I'm not so sure how much of the 'dangerous' part she really took to heart--but the bit about spirits and demons being one and the same? Justice, a spirit, will tell you almost as soon as you meet him that spirits and demons ARE different. Specifically, they are different in that demons are, for whatever reason, obsessed with the mortal world (they desire things from mortals) and tend to embody negative emotions, whereas spirits have little interest in the mortal world and apparently choose to embody things like 'Justice' or 'Faith'. Merrill states outright that she believes there's no distinction, and so, while you shouldn't trust either, dealing with a demon is no different than dealing with a spirit. Which everyone takes as fact.

Merrill's mistake to make? Well, she's an adult. I've pointed out there were dangers to her clan before, but that's written off by 'Hawke's a badass so she wasn't taking a risk with other people's lives'. Marethari decided 'I love Merrill too much to be the distant parental figure letting her get shot in the face'. Should she have? Should she not have? These are the kinds of things I'd like to see discussed, rather than 'well she's just a stupid stupid person and deserves what she got, because she should have known Merrill was right'.

The clan has had Merrill since she was what, four? Marethari has raised her from a very young child. Marethari NOT taking a blow she was sure was meant for Merrill would have shocked me far more than her doing so. If she had just stood aside and let Merrill die, what would people be saying about her then? I don't think it would be flattering.