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[jlb524]

The Baconer wrote...
I'm just saying she's definitely not going to successfully play the demon, and everyone can see that.

I don't see that.

[Kabraxal]

jlb524 wrote...

The Baconer wrote...
I'm just saying she's definitely not going to successfully play the demon, and everyone can see that.

I don't see that.

This.  I think she had a good chance of success, but sadly the Keeper ruined any chance of finding out.

[Dan-mac RI]

Rifneno wrote...

reservedegotist wrote...

On Merrill, when it comes to her quests, you really just have to believe in her despite her extreme methods for friendship.  For rivaly you have to convince her that her path is too extreme.  And for RP reasons, my warrior/rogue Hawke really doesn't give a crap.  Or he's blinded by romance.

But is there a way to go where you tell her she's so stupid that the Chantry should declare it an official miracle that she survived past age 12 without ever picking up a black mamba and going "this poor cat is so skinny!"?  Because that's the path I want.  The biggest plot hole isn't dead characters appearing or timeline errors, it's the fact Darwinism didn't claim Merrill in about 20 years living in forests full of poisonous flora and deadly predators.  No, seriously, Merrill is beyond belief.  You want to tell me that all the bad mages are slitting their wrists and using their blood for mana everyday without dropping dead from blood loss?  Fine, I'll accept that.  You want me to believe a fully grown adult who doesn't own 3 buckets for drool thinks that a mugging is a "welcome to the neighborhood" greeting?  No, I do not accept that!

*deep breath*  /nerdrage off.

The snake/wildlife reference might have been a bad idea. How much would you know about wild animals if you lived with them your whole life? She's probably incredibly knowledgeable about how to live in the wilds, it's just that this knowledge has NO application in the city or 90% of the places Hawke can take her. When it comes to the alienage, it would seem like a mugging happens to most of the people who enter them. Evidence: Soris' reaction to Duncan. What does Merrill do the first time she meets you? She greets you. Also, her curiosity might come from stories she heard from Pol.

Also, what do you know about aboriginal society? How would you know if they don't punch each other in the face as a greeting?

[jlb524]

Camenae wrote...

Hmm, well I'm curious about this now too: So I think part of what Kartikeya is asking--and please correct me if I'm wrong--for those who are saying: "I agree that Merrill has flaws BUT" and then goes on to wholeheartedly defend Merrill without any further mention of said flaws, what flaws exactly do you see Merrill as having?

Because if you aren't willing or able to name any, then it seems that that's just paying lip service while still thinking that she is indeed flawless.

I think the question, "Is Merrill justified in attempting to restore the Eluvian?" is different from "Does Merrill have flaws?"

It seems most discussion is concerned with the former.  I think she is justified in trying to restore it, but I think she didn't go about it the best way due to some of her flaws.  I even think a Merrill on the friend path would look back in hindsight over what happened with Marethari and Audacity and agree.  However, she would still think she was in the right for trying to fix the Eluvian but would do it differently if she got the second chance.

[Camenae]

jlb524 wrote...

It seems most discussion is concerned with the former.  I think she is justified in trying to restore it, but I think she didn't go about it the best way due to some of her flaws.  I even think a Merrill on the friend path would look back in hindsight over what happened with Marethari and Audacity and agree.  However, she would still think she was in the right for trying to fix the Eluvian but would do it differently if she got the second chance.

I agree with this.  I really hated Merrill during my first playthrough, but then I thought about how her motivation was only that she wanted to restore her people's lost culture, and this is a goal that I certainly don't disagree with.  Then I realized that I disliked her so much only because I personally would not have gone about it the same way she did. 

[The Baconer]

Kabraxal wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

The Baconer wrote...
I'm just saying she's definitely not going to successfully play the demon, and everyone can see that.

I don't see that.

This.  I think she had a good chance of success, but sadly the Keeper ruined any chance of finding out.

Really? You think Merrill, who could have already sold you out for a demon once, is somehow going to outwit the demon now? The demon who, as she believes, holds all the secrets to reactivating the Eluvian, the complete focus of her life for the last 6/7 years? Merrill, who could challenge a Mabari to a game of wit and still lose?

The only possible way she'd come out of that unpossessed is if Hawke finally interrupts their conversation and goes, "Wait, this is just ****ing stupid." Again, that's not even a guarantee, since if you took her into the fade she's already ignored you once before.

[Mnemnosyne]

Merrill's biggest fault seems to be not seeking out other options. She's too focused on this one path she's set herself on, rather than considering all the alternate possibilities to either fix the mirror or find others.

Marethari similarly is at fault for the same thing - instead of denying Merrill the opportunity to fix the mirror or have anything to do with it, claiming that it's too dangerous and needs to be destroyed, which is a betrayal of the very ideals of the Dalish, she could have guided Merrill to other options.

Marethari also could have helped Merrill purify the mirror without involving the demon - or at least, so Merrill seems to think, and there doesn't seem to be any reason why she wouldn't know what she's talking about here. To quote the relevant conversation, "I couldn't cleanse it without help. The Keeper refused. She said that it belonged to another time, and should be left there." This clearly suggests that Marethari knew or had information on how to purify the mirror without contacting the demon, but refused to help Merrill do so.

If seeking out the old artifacts and relics isn't what the Dalish are meant to do, someone better inform the rest of them so they can stop bothering with it, since every other encounter with them seems to indicate this is their primary reason for the life they lead.

[Kabraxal]

The Baconer wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

The Baconer wrote...
I'm just saying she's definitely not going to successfully play the demon, and everyone can see that.

I don't see that.

This.  I think she had a good chance of success, but sadly the Keeper ruined any chance of finding out.

Really? You think Merrill, who could have already sold you out for a demon once, is somehow going to outwit the demon now? The demon who, as she believes, holds all the secrets to reactivating the Eluvian, the complete focus of her life for the last 6/7 years? Merrill, who could challenge a Mabari to a game of wit and still lose?

The only possible way she'd come out of that unpossessed is if Hawke finally interrupts their conversation and goes, "Wait, this is just ****ing stupid." Again, that's not even a guarantee, since if you took her into the fade she's already ignored you once before.

She might have learned that lesson from being goaded by that one demon.  Remember, it has been years since that incident, so it is safe to say she probably would reflect on that issue quite a bit if she is going to take that risk again.

People assume that this quest takes place over such a short period it seems, but in fact it is over a 7 year period.  That is a lot of time to fix it, research, prepare, and devote hours of introspection and debate within herself.  Really, to think Merrill spent that 7 years doing nothing in terms of preparation and precaution is quite confusing to me.  That is one of the reasons I support her.  And I would also like to think that her and Hawke spent hours discussing it in the years we don't get to see.  Wish we did, but I assume it happened, especially a romanced Merrill.  No way a Hawke in love with Merrill doesn't take a keen interest in this quest. 

[The Baconer]

Kabraxal wrote...

She might have learned that lesson from being goaded by that one demon.  Remember, it has been years since that incident, so it is safe to say she probably would reflect on that issue quite a bit if she is going to take that risk again.

People assume that this quest takes place over such a short period it seems, but in fact it is over a 7 year period.  That is a lot of time to fix it, research, prepare, and devote hours of introspection and debate within herself.  Really, to think Merrill spent that 7 years doing nothing in terms of preparation and precaution is quite confusing to me.  That is one of the reasons I support her.  And I would also like to think that her and Hawke spent hours discussing it in the years we don't get to see.  Wish we did, but I assume it happened, especially a romanced Merrill.  No way a Hawke in love with Merrill doesn't take a keen interest in this quest. 

She's had more than 7 years of being told that courting demons isn't the best idea, that's including her training that comes with being a Keeper's First.

[Kaigen42]

The Baconer wrote...

I think we do. What else do you think would happen, exactly? That Merrill outsmarts the demon? Like the other demon in the Fade that got her to cut a deal within the span of three sentences?

EDIT: I'm not saying Marethari's decision and the resulting consequences are all Merrills fault, I'm just saying she's definitely not going to successfully play the demon, and everyone can see that.

I dunno, I'm distrustful of using that sequence as evidence since everyone except Vengeance holds the idiot ball if you take them into that situation. Except the main character, who is entirely immune to mind control (maybe Merrill should have just asked Hawke to deal with the demon for the knowledge). I think the fact that Merrill uses blood magic for six years without losing her stability or turning on anyone (the Fade doesn't count because it clearly has nothing to do with the relative corruptibility of your companions or blood magic), in Kirkwall, where mages go from normal to blood magic using abomination in under 60 seconds, speaks well for her strength of will. In my opinion, that demon would have had a hard time getting her to agree to anything she wasn't okay with.

I guess my problem is that you can see Merrill taking precautions in case the worst happens, i.e. taking Hawke and co. with her to make sure she doesn't rampage across the countryside, accepting her exile from the clan to try to isolate them from any unintended consequences (possibly even trying to wait for them to leave Sundermount so there isn't anyone in the immediate vicinity when she goes back). Marethari, on the other hand, pre-emptively makes the worst happen and apparently takes no precautions, not even letting her clan know what she is doing. What would have happened if Merrill had decided to give up and never come back? Abomination!Marethari leading her clan until she drops the pretense and kills them all, apparently.

Even if you think Merrill shares some blame for Marethari's decision to pre-empt her, I have a hard time blaming her for her entire clan going on a homicidal rampage against her and her companions. They see her come out of the cave, obviously distraught and stricken with grief, and immediately jump to the conclusion that she's gone irredeemably evil and killed their Keeper with her own hands (technically true, although Marethari essentially committed suicide before she even got there), and proceed to ignore any of her explanations. Marethari, of course, didn't tell them about her plan to keep Merrill from risking her life by making it necessary to kill her. As others have already pointed, this is extremely stupid on Marethari's part. If her entire plan is to force Merill to kill her, you'd think she'd find some way to ensure that the clan doesn't try to take revenge on Merill for that act (unless she wanted them to kill her, but I sincerely doubt that).

When it came to that part, I sided with Merrill, and when her entire clan went stab-happy, I tried to stun them and run, because while self-defense is justifiable, I didn't want to kill an entire clan for jumping to conclusions. Unfortunately, they had anticipated this tactic and erected invisible barriers to prevent us from leaving the area until we had kill every last one of them.

[Kabraxal]

The Baconer wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

She might have learned that lesson from being goaded by that one demon.  Remember, it has been years since that incident, so it is safe to say she probably would reflect on that issue quite a bit if she is going to take that risk again.

People assume that this quest takes place over such a short period it seems, but in fact it is over a 7 year period.  That is a lot of time to fix it, research, prepare, and devote hours of introspection and debate within herself.  Really, to think Merrill spent that 7 years doing nothing in terms of preparation and precaution is quite confusing to me.  That is one of the reasons I support her.  And I would also like to think that her and Hawke spent hours discussing it in the years we don't get to see.  Wish we did, but I assume it happened, especially a romanced Merrill.  No way a Hawke in love with Merrill doesn't take a keen interest in this quest. 

She's had more than 7 years of being told that courting demons isn't the best idea, that's including her training that comes with being a Keeper's First.

And just because others say it for 7 years doesn't make them right.  That isn't a good enough reason to frown on Merrill's choice.

[The Baconer]

Kaigen42 wrote...

I dunno, I'm distrustful of using that sequence as evidence since everyone except Vengeance holds the idiot ball if you take them into that situation. Except the main character, who is entirely immune to mind control (maybe Merrill should have just asked Hawke to deal with the demon for the knowledge). I think the fact that Merrill uses blood magic for six years without losing her stability or turning on anyone (the Fade doesn't count because it clearly has nothing to do with the relative corruptibility of your companions or blood magic), in Kirkwall, where mages go from normal to blood magic using abomination in under 60 seconds, speaks well for her strength of will. In my opinion, that demon would have had a hard time getting her to agree to anything she wasn't okay with.

I would agree, if that weren't the only piece of evidence. When Torpor approaches you in the fade, and makes his offer, immediately initiating combat with him will net you Rivalry points with Merrill. I don't see a problem with that, she at leasts wants you to hear what he has to say, so that makes sense. But, if you agree to his offer, that is if you agree to let him possess Feynriel, you get Friendship points from her. I'm sorry, but that is just sketchy. Also, if Anders is in your party when you agree to the demon's offer, and you defeat him in combat, you have a chance to either keep your decision or turn down Torpor's bargain. Turning it down nets you Rivalry points with her. She's a total Daemonophile (new word?), and this knowledge has completely soured my opinion of her on future playthroughs.

Even if you think Merrill shares some blame for Marethari's decision to pre-empt her, I have a hard time blaming her for her entire clan going on a homicidal rampage against her and her companions. They see her come out of the cave, obviously distraught and stricken with grief, and immediately jump to the conclusion that she's gone irredeemably evil and killed their Keeper with her own hands (technically true, although Marethari essentially committed suicide before she even got there), and proceed to ignore any of her explanations. Marethari, of course, didn't tell them about her plan to keep Merrill from risking her life by making it necessary to kill her. As others have already pointed, this is extremely stupid on Marethari's part. If her entire plan is to force Merill to kill her, you'd think she'd find some way to ensure that the clan doesn't try to take revenge on Merill for that act (unless she wanted them to kill her, but I sincerely doubt that).

I agree with this point.

Kabraxal wrote...

And just because others say it for 7 years doesn't make them
right.  That isn't a good enough reason to frown on Merrill's choice.

Really. That's what you're going with.

Modifié par The Baconer, 01 avril 2011 - 09:36 .

[Kabraxal]

The Baconer wrote...

Kaigen42 wrote...

I dunno, I'm distrustful of using that sequence as evidence since everyone except Vengeance holds the idiot ball if you take them into that situation. Except the main character, who is entirely immune to mind control (maybe Merrill should have just asked Hawke to deal with the demon for the knowledge). I think the fact that Merrill uses blood magic for six years without losing her stability or turning on anyone (the Fade doesn't count because it clearly has nothing to do with the relative corruptibility of your companions or blood magic), in Kirkwall, where mages go from normal to blood magic using abomination in under 60 seconds, speaks well for her strength of will. In my opinion, that demon would have had a hard time getting her to agree to anything she wasn't okay with.

I would agree, if that weren't the only piece of evidence. When Torpor approaches you in the fade, and makes his offer, immediately initiating combat with him will net you Rivalry points with Merrill. I don't see a problem with that, she at leasts wants you to hear what he has to say, so that makes sense. But, if you agree to his offer, that is if you agree to let him possess Feynriel, you get Friendship points from her. I'm sorry, but that is just sketchy. Also, if Anders is in your party when you agree to the demon's offer, and you defeat him in combat, you have a chance to either keep your decision or turn down Torpor's bargain. Turning it down nets you Rivalry points with her. She's a total Daemonophile (new word?), and this knowledge has completely soured my opinion of her on future playthroughs.

Even if you think Merrill shares some blame for Marethari's decision to pre-empt her, I have a hard time blaming her for her entire clan going on a homicidal rampage against her and her companions. They see her come out of the cave, obviously distraught and stricken with grief, and immediately jump to the conclusion that she's gone irredeemably evil and killed their Keeper with her own hands (technically true, although Marethari essentially committed suicide before she even got there), and proceed to ignore any of her explanations. Marethari, of course, didn't tell them about her plan to keep Merrill from risking her life by making it necessary to kill her. As others have already pointed, this is extremely stupid on Marethari's part. If her entire plan is to force Merill to kill her, you'd think she'd find some way to ensure that the clan doesn't try to take revenge on Merill for that act (unless she wanted them to kill her, but I sincerely doubt that).

I agree with this point.

Kabraxal wrote...

And just because others say it for 7 years doesn't make them
right.  That isn't a good enough reason to frown on Merrill's choice.

Really. That's what you're going with.

If all you are going to say... "But all these people simply said it was a bad idea for 7 years" then yes.  It is a terrible argument that gives you no basis for frowning on Merrill's decision.  Somone saying something for any length of time has no bearing on the nature of a choice.  We have plenty of evidence in our own history where people said things for centuries only to be proved horribly wrong. 

In fact, even if you had added views on demons, blood magic, and the Eluvian having done damage before with that statement, that statement is still pointless and just plain poor reasoning.  It has no business in the argument. 

[Mr.House]

Merrill and the keeper are both idiots here. None of this would have happen if Merrill didn't decide to be stupid and talk to demons and the Keeper didn't put her love above her duty. You can't blame one without blaming the other, to do so is bias.

[Kabraxal]

Mr.House wrote...

Merrill and the keeper are both idiots here. None of this would have happen if Merrill didn't decide to be stupid and talk to demons and the Keeper didn't put her love above her duty. You can't blame one without blaming the other, to do so is bias.

That's only if you think talking to demons is always stupid.  Some of us to subscribe to that ideology at all. 

[Kartikeya]

Kaigen42 wrote...

So, TMA Live and Bayz, let me see if I can put your arguments in a modern analogy:

You decide to cross the street. You know that there's traffic and therefore the possibility that you will be hit, and maybe it's a bit reckless to be crossing right now but you, weighing the risks, decide that you are willing to take that risk and cross the street. Your mentor, coming to the conclusion that you are not allowed to take such risks, pushes you out of the way, falls to the pavement, and gets run over by a car that may or may not have hit you if she hadn't intervened (we'll never know). She was planning on doing this all along, but didn't feel the need to tell anybody about it.

Her death is entirely your fault.

In fact, your blame is so obvious, that when your extended family shows up on the scene five minutes later, they don't listen to your explanations and pull out guns and knives to avenge your mentor's death. They chase you no matter where you run, and will not stop trying to kill you unless you kill them.

You are, of course, a heartless, evil person for killing your extended family in self-defense. More so, because you feel grateful to your friend for helping you defend yourself and for not laying all the blame for this atrocity solely at your feet.

Now, you might say that's a bad analogy, because Merill's situation is much different from simply crossing the street, and you'd probably be right; I used that one because it has already been used in this thread. There are other analogies you could make, though. If you planned to enlist during a time of war knowing that it was likely you would die in combat, would you be to blame for someone killing the army recruitment officer and going to prison to stop you from enlisting? Would you be to blame for someone killing themselves to prevent you from taking a dangerous job?

A better analogy, but still very flawed, is that Merrill decided to go play in traffic, and Marethari got hit by a truck trying to get her out of the way. Would she have been hit by that truck? Would she have been hit by another car? Would she have been perfectly fine if Marethari did nothing? We don't know.  I object to the assumption that because we don't know, we should assume Merrill is correct and Marethari is wrong.

Actually, a more accurate analogy is probably that Merrill decided to go play in traffic with some crazy in a truck who wants to run her over. No one seems to be debating that the demon didn't mean Merrill harm. Just whether or not Merrill could dodge the truck while accomplishing something she believed getting hit by the truck was an acceptable consequence of managing. In the end it doesn't matter because the truck hits Marethari instead.

I also don't think anyone's arguing that the reaction of the Dalish clan isn't over the top and not well thought out. They're angry and grief stricken. To torture this analogy further, let's say Merrill went to play in traffic with the crazy truck driver once before and Marethari spent a long time telling her and everyone else that this was a bad idea and someone was going to get hurt or killed over it, with Merrill ignoring her warnings and claiming that she knows what she's doing. Then she goes back to play in traffic with the crazy truck driver and guess who gets hurt? It's the person who was warning her all along that this was going to happen, because she was trying to stop her from getting flattened. I'm going to guess the people who believed and loved Marethari are going to be pissed as hell at Merrill, regardless of whether or not Merrill could have actually truck dodged like a pro or not, because whoever bears responsibility and however this was going to turn out, Merrill was the catalyst for the tragedy.

Boiling it down to 'Marethari is just stupid, the Dalish are just crazy, and Merrill had good intentions and anything bad that happens in reaction to what she does despite all warnings that something bad was going to happen are just these things that happen in a void because people are stupid and ignorant' is ignoring the entire point of the tragedy.

Heck, let's put it this way. Did you play a Dalish Warden? Did you start warning Tamlen from the beginning that 'maybe we should go tell the Keeper' or 'maybe this isn't a good idea' or 'maybe you shouldn't touch the creepy mirror you don't know anything about in this cave full of monsters, Tamlen'? After all, Tamlen's trying to recover this same piece of history, a thing very important to the Dalish. Tamlen's a decent enough warrior to fight through undead and giant spiders and a corrupted bear. And then Tamlen says 'oh pish, it's fine' and horrible things happen to both of you. Could Tamlen have possibly predicted that result? No. Was it still incredibly reckless and an act that hurts more people than just himself? Yes, yes it is. Should have LISTENED to the Warden's worries rather than forging on with what he believed was important without stopping to consider they might have a point? Just maybe.

[The Baconer]

Kabraxal wrote...

If all you are going to say... "But all these people simply said it was a bad idea for 7 years" then yes.  It is a terrible argument that gives you no basis for frowning on Merrill's decision.  Somone saying something for any length of time has no bearing on the nature of a choice.  We have plenty of evidence in our own history where people said things for centuries only to be proved horribly wrong. 

In fact, even if you had added views on demons, blood magic, and the Eluvian having done damage before with that statement, that statement is still pointless and just plain poor reasoning.  It has no business in the argument. 

It's a perfectly credible arguement because Merrill has been taught why demons are dangerous why courting them is a bad decision. She can even experience a crash course on why it's a bad decision herself and she learns absolutely nothing. The only way you can take all of these facts and discard them as having no place in an arguement is if you, like Merrill, actively deflect logic in your thought processes.

[Mr.House]

Kabraxal wrote...
That's only if you think talking to demons is always stupid.  Some of us to subscribe to that ideology at all. 

Yes because talking and making deals with demons never backfires at all right?

[Kabraxal]

The Baconer wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

If all you are going to say... "But all these people simply said it was a bad idea for 7 years" then yes.  It is a terrible argument that gives you no basis for frowning on Merrill's decision.  Somone saying something for any length of time has no bearing on the nature of a choice.  We have plenty of evidence in our own history where people said things for centuries only to be proved horribly wrong. 

In fact, even if you had added views on demons, blood magic, and the Eluvian having done damage before with that statement, that statement is still pointless and just plain poor reasoning.  It has no business in the argument. 

It's a perfectly credible arguement because Merrill has been taught why demons are dangerous why courting them is a bad decision. She can even experience a crash course on why it's a bad decision herself and she learns absolutely nothing. The only way you can take all of these facts and discard them as having no place in an arguement is if you, like Merrill, actively deflect logic in your thought processes.

I don't agree that talking with demons or blood magic is always wrong.  I completely disagree in fact.  While the normal unprepared sop is doomed in those scenarios, someone that has taken the time to prepare and take precautions is not guarenteed to fail like some of you mistakingly believe.  Yes, mistakingly.  We have proof that demons can be talked to and blood magic can be used without horrendous repercussions in Origins. 

So saying I discard those people ranting for 7 years on how bad it is, is using deflective logic is only showing you are completely going to ignore the fact that there are reasons that what is said by those people is not a universal truth.  Sorry to break it to ya, but there are legitimate reasons to side with Merrill and it not being fanboyism.

[jlb524]

Though, this Merrill/demon issue is all kind funny when you consider Marethari made some kind of deal with Flemeth for who knows what in exchange for aiding with the Witch of the Wilds' resurrection.

[jlb524]

Mr.House wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...
That's only if you think talking to demons is always stupid.  Some of us to subscribe to that ideology at all. 

Yes because talking and making deals with demons never backfires at all right?

Not always.  At least you know what you are up against with a demon, unlike when dealing with humans.

Demons are pretty predictable, really.

[Kabraxal]

Mr.House wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...
That's only if you think talking to demons is always stupid.  Some of us to subscribe to that ideology at all. 

Yes because talking and making deals with demons never backfires at all right?

Not saying it doesn't end that way sometimes.  But we have proof that it can be done and done with no horrendous repercussions as well. 

Demon deals don't always end badly.  Blood magic is only a tool that depends on the individual wielding it.  Neither are universally bad or good.  And if you understand that little fact it is quite easy to see why so many do trust Merrill here. 

[Kabraxal]

jlb524 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...
That's only if you think talking to demons is always stupid.  Some of us to subscribe to that ideology at all. 

Yes because talking and making deals with demons never backfires at all right?

Not always.  At least you know what you are up against with a demon, unlike when dealing with humans.

Demons are pretty predictable, really.

Very true... the templars and mages and Qunari in this game caused more issues than all the demons we have encountered through BOTH games. 

[LobselVith8]

Mr.House wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...
That's only if you think talking to demons is always stupid.  Some of us to subscribe to that ideology at all. 

Yes because talking and making deals with demons never backfires at all right?

Let's look at Dragon Age: Origins. The Warden can hear the Desire Demon out, coerce her to leave Connor and abanon the deal she made with the boy, and gain the knowledge of blood magic in exchange for sparing her life.

[Giggles_Manically]

But there is a difference!

THE PC is so awesome and perfect that they can do something but if someone else does something they do ITS SO TERRIBLE!