Koyasha wrote...
Kartikeya wrote...
While this is true in regards to Merrill, is there really any point in the games where listening to what a demon has to say is really ever a good idea? Ever?
Anyone remember the Grand Oak? Yeah, that was a demon, just like the sylvans. He chose to accept his fated oaken home. All demons aren't identical.
How about the desire demon in Connor? She keeps her bargain, for what that's worth. It might not be the best outcome for Connor or others, but as far as the Warden is concerned, listening to her was an entirely beneficial proposition.
The demon in the primeval thaig is pretty much entirely forthright. He only gets upset if you try to take the treasure he considers 'his', I believe. Although I always just let Varric give him a face full of Bianca at that point.
I think the Sloth demon in Feynriel's fade area is also straight with you. Though I'm not sure as I haven't played through all the various options in that one.
Merrill is absolutely right in that it's worth hearing demons out and considering their offers.
As far as Merrill and Marethari go, the more I think about that the more I find it interesting. Both of them have been somewhat wrong from the outset, but I feel as though more of the blame lies with Marethari than with Merrill. If they had worked together to find better options, none of that would have ever happened, and it seems as though it was Marethari who was primarily to blame for everything, as she just said no and refused to listen to Merrill, consider other options, or try to find a better way. Merrill was right - Marethari never once believed in her. I almost detect some jealousy there too, in that Merrill was in some ways a better Keeper than Marethari.
And I don't doubt that the pride demon was influencing Marethari far more than it was influencing Merrill. After all, Merrill is at least willing to consider that she might be wrong, if you push her hard enough in that direction, while Marethari is a prideful stubborn old goat who kills herself rather than admit she was wrong, or even give Merrill the chance to prove her wrong. Her actions forever deny Merrill the chance to accomplish her goals, it seems, and in some ways it feels like she does that so that, no matter what, she can never be shown to have been wrong.
After all, if Merrill had been right and she and Hawke could have handled the demon and repaired the Eluvian, Marethari would have been proved unquestionably wrong and Merrill would have demonstrated that not only was she more capable of handling the demon, but also more dedicated to the Keeper's job of restoring and remembering ancient elven things. It would have been clear that Merrill was better than Marethari in every way, and that was something she couldn't allow.
RE: Pride, see my above post. Does any of that ring familiar? There's a reason that between the Desire demon and the Pride demon in Feynriel's dream, it's Pride that she falls victim to, even though you'd think her Desire to help her people would be stronger.
Pride doesn't have to be chest thumping, 'I'm better than everyone else, rah rah rah' blatant. Merrill is a lonely young woman who lost two friends to what seems to be a senseless stroke of fate. She wants to make sense of it. She wants the Eluvian to be worth something because that will mean that her friends didn't die for no reason, they died helping to restore part of their history, one of the most, if not THE most important things to the Dalish. Merrill feels that it would be worth any personal sacrifice to be able to accomplish this. By the time you meet her, she's convinced that it's worth giving up her Clan for. Her Clan is wrong. She knows they are. She'll go into exile if she has to, to accomplish this great thing. It will be worth it even if they hate her forever.
She knows what she's doing. She's confident in her abilities. Anyone who questions her capability is treating her like a child and doubting her for wrongful reasons, such as an ingrained aversion to blood magic, or a failure to understand the spirits the way she does. In fact, the more people protest, the more secure in her certainty she is. Either they'll understand when she succeeds, or they won't.
She knows she's doing the right thing. She's making a sacrifice for her people. (Note that this does not imply that she's WRONG about any of that. You can be perfectly right and still be prideful over it. )
She knows the dangers too, but that's okay. It's okay because she's the one putting herself in danger. She's going away from the Clan so that they're safe. She'll take on all of this risk herself. She'll make certain that it's all on her, that no one else will be hurt. She knows she can do this, because she knows what she's doing.
Do you see how insidious that is?
Let's go with your idea that Marethari was being influenced too. It wouldn't take much. Maybe she just goes up the mountain sometime before Merrill shows up, to demand the demon tell her what's really going on. I don't subscribe to the idea that Marethari's weakness would be just to show Merrill up. Marethari is an old woman who has raised Merrill since she was a young child. Sure, saying Marethari just wanted to prove her wrong makes it easier to demonize the character (since she's opposing Merrill on this), but it seems a really big step to go from 'I want to prove that girl wrong' to 'I'm totally going to die for it'.
Let's say she demands to know what's going on and the demon tells her. Maybe it's the truth, maybe it's a lie, maybe it's some combination, who knows? Doesn't matter. The demon tells her that once Merrill finishes the Eluvian, its going to come through the mirror and have fun, starting with killing Merrill. That's the plan it's had all along. It wants to be free of where it's bound. Why would it tell Marethari this if Marethari didn't care about Merrill's wellbeing? Of course she cares, she's raised Merrill. She wants Merrill to come home. She let Merrill go in the first place, in the hopes that she might give the thing up on her own. So now Marethari has a problem. She can't convince Merrill to give this up. Merrill has stopped listening to her and anyone else's warnings. Would Merrill listen to her if she told her this? She's raised Merrill. Wouldn't Merrill say that it was worth the risk? Hasn't she been saying it was worth the risk all along? Hasn't she been saying she would take the consequences if she had to? So Marethari sees two scenarios: Merrill finishes the mirror and the demon kills her, or Merrill gets possessed and the subsequent abomination will have to be killed. Either way ends with Merrill dead. Maybe no one else dead! But Merrill dead.
So Marethari finds a third option. The demon wants its freedom. She'll take the demon into herself so that Merrill and her friends can kill it. She'll die, but Merrill won't. It's a classic mother's sacrifice.
Was it necessary? There's no way to know. How much was the demon lying? Who knows. Was the mirror a trap all along? I'm inclined to believe yes, but that's pure opinion. Was Marethari being influenced by the demon too? Very possibly. But I find it hard to imagine that she was remotely capable of not sacrificing herself if she truly believed Merrill would die otherwise. If your kid runs into the road, are you really going to sit up on the curb and wait to see how it all works out? It's a little weird that this makes her
stupid, but Merrill's willingness to sacrifice herself for others (who, note, absolutely don't want her to make that sacrifice for them) makes her
noble.
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