84 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvianus]

Hop. Another problem pointed to improve in DA3.

Romances. The work was bad for the characters yet interesting.

I tested Isabella. A good romance. But I have not hooked. And if I have not hooked, it's not because of her, it is because of bad work done in the romances in general DAII.

It's simple, romances are performed only by cut-scene very interventionist, with a possibility to choose one or two sentences, and you're done. Unable to leave the cut scene, impossible to master the course. They come, they will not stop or land, as fast as the wind.
 
They ordered the tempo and we have nothing to say. Yes sir, at your service !

Cliiing, The doorbell rang of love, you can get your cut scene of 2 seconds, it said in the newspaper. Hum ! Very bad.

If there were a lot, it could compensate, but how in the game? Not much cut-scene throughout the game separated by a long time to do lots of quests.

Could not give a kiss when we want, to hold its Li in its arms. To develop a dialogue when we want with our wives or companions dumb that interact with each other, as if we were not there.

Ultimately, the romances in DA2 were terrible, and very frustrating. Let's be honest. who has not been frustrated ? The characters deserved better.

For my part, I was not impressed and I'm able fingers in the nose finish this game without romance ( as useless in the background and not in impressive in the form), which is the first time in a bioware game for me .

It is imperative to not follow this path for DA3.

Then it is time to take the big leap forward, not backward. It is time to strip the characters when they go to the carnal act. I have seen in The Wither 2 that they had done, Bioware has always made beautiful romances, they can't be left behind in this area .

We are not children. It's ridiculous.

What else to improve ? Ah yes, allow this time for real, romances with NPCs, which wasn't the case like it was said....

Modifié par Sylvianus, 31 mars 2011 - 10:36 .

[Vicious]

I will agree with you there, none of the romances were as interesting or hooked you like Alistair and Morrigan.

[sylvanaerie]

To address the nudity thing you bring up, rendering a naked Fenris (with all those markings) for one itty bitty scene was wasteful cost/time/storage wise. Most likely it was the same for Isabella as well, though we do see Hawke and Merrill in their underroos after their scene, cuddling.  That was the easiest because several of the elves in the game are in those funny red/black underwear bodysuit things, so it was already in the game files.
I too would have enjoyed being able to visit my LI and share a kiss once in a while, having nookie once in 10 years (and some of the romances i really got the feeling it was that sparse, esp Fenris who takes 3 damn years to bring up the way he acted during the scene) made me completely disconnected.
Isabella's was the best (IMO) of the three I played, with a lot of character development displayed over the course of the story, and I loved the idea of Hawke and she sailing off to Rivain on that boat she blackmailed out of Castillion.
But yea, the ones in DA:O felt a lot more involved even if they were limited. I'm sure some enterprising modder (if they ever release a toolset for this game) will improve on them to make them a lot more fun/interesting.
For me, I'm doing a romanceless run this time and so far it really isn't that much difference from one where you romance the NPC's. (I got the ship convo with Isabella whether I romanced her or not).

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 31 mars 2011 - 10:40 .

[Sylvianus]

Yeah, they really will not score. Because we don't allow them. No depth, no time to devote to them. We don't know much about them in the end. It doesn't happen much in the last 10 years.

A 10-year relationship ? Is it credible that this is what has been done ? There hasn't been much progress, it seems every act, whether it's as if we saw again the next day.

[caradoc2000]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I loved the idea of Hawke and she sailing off to Rivain on that boat she blackmailed out of Castillion.

I found the dialogue better if you kill Castillon (hence she does not get the ship). She says she actually doesn't need to go anywhere - everything she cares for is here.

[noxsachi]

I really enjoyed Isabela's romance, although I haven't romanced anyone else; I just don't have the desire to. Merrill and Anders are evil and Fenris while cool, is no Zevran. Still Izzy's romance brought alot of character development to her and was really surprising given how I thought of her going into it.

Still options to kiss your LI, confront your mother if you're in a same sex relationship, etc. would be very much appreciated.

[sylvanaerie]

caradoc2000 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

I loved the idea of Hawke and she sailing off to Rivain on that boat she blackmailed out of Castillion.

I found the dialogue better if you kill Castillon (hence she does not get the ship). She says she actually doesn't need to go anywhere - everything she cares for is here.

Aww that's sweet too.  But I enjoy getting her the boat.  Esp if i romance her.  You can tell her you assume she will be sailing and she says she will stick around a while since she has gotten fond of some of the people in Kirkwall (and this even if she doesn't romance Hawke).  Plus, if she got that excited over a itty bitty ship in a bottle, how excited will she be over a big boat?  
I like big boats and I cannot lie...

[Sylvianus]

There was a lot of novelty that has not been developed, not exploited. For the love of god, why ban discussions during the adventure ? I understand that this can be only allowed in companions's home. But then, why not allow the discussion at home? Yet it was the occasion. Able to engage in deep dialogue and intense as we sat down at home.

In hawk's home, it is the same. He has furniture, a chair, and above a bed, a double bed. Example Merrill come live with him. For the love of god, why did we not had the idea to make it useful to be top coated with our romance, with her in our arms, daydreaming, maybe kissing.

If you really prohibit discussions during the adventure, only allowing just at home, then you must make it much more interesting interactions there.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 31 mars 2011 - 11:01 .

[sylvanaerie]

Sylvianus wrote...

There was a lot of novelty that has not been developed, not exploited. For the love of god, why ban discussions during the adventure ? I understand that this can be only allowed in companions's home. But then, why not allow the discussion at home? Yet it was the occasion. Able to engage in deep dialogue and intense as we sat down at home.

In hawk's home, it is the same. He has furniture, a chair, and above a bed, a double bed. Example Merrill come live with him. For the love of god, why did we not had the idea to make it useful to be top coated with our romance, with her in our arms, daydreaming, maybe kissing.

If you really prohibit discussions during the adventure, only allowing just at home, then you must make it much more interesting interactions there.

Considering that that all costs money, time, disc storage, just what part of the game would you have given up to seen these scenes?  Quests? Actual plot?  Sure, more actual naked nookie and cuddling scenes vs actually progressing the storyline with quests, plot points.   ummm not me. 
Plus, that's more dialogue for the voice actors to do, which means more money and jacks up the price further for content that won't be seen for most runs (as you can only really have 1 love interest finish in the game) if they have scenes like that for all 4 love interests. And some of us won't ever see some of it (I can't stand Anders in this game and won't be romancing him AT ALL).  So that would be a waste to include all that extra coding. 
That kind of stuff is for Modders to make who have the time/talent on their hands to do so, so players can DL what they want to see.  Hopefully Bioware will release a Toolset so we can get really good mods to fill in the blanks of this need.   Frankly I wouldn't have bought DA2 if it was 90dollars and 3 discs of game information to install and nothing more than a Dating Sim game.  I love sims 3 but i buy Dragon Age for the plot/adventure.

[Camenae]

I would give up all the "your lost trash, Serah" for a few more lines of dialogue with LI, yes.

[JJDrakken]

Should of had option to have cuddle/kiss time, with them, like in ME2.


JJ

[The Baconer]

sylvanaerie wrote...
Considering that that all costs money, time, disc storage, just what part of the game would you have given up to seen these scenes?  Quests? Actual plot?  Sure, more actual naked nookie and cuddling scenes vs actually progressing the storyline with quests, plot points.   ummm not me.

This arguement loses credibility when you step back and look at how much content is in the game in the first place. Compared to Origins game is shorter on dialogue, environments, creature types, codex entries etc. So we have more fulfilling romances in Origins and more, but DA2 is somehow bursting at the seams with content and there's just no more room?

[Ezohiguma]

Or drop the romances completely. I don't care too much about them either way. Sometimes I do them, sometimes I don't.

What's the point of those romances anyway? Don't try to sell them with the roleplay part. "Hey, we have an archdemon to kill and if we fail all of Ferelden will fall, lots of people will die, but first, let's do some shaggin'!"

Wow... no, not really.

Same in DA2... just doesn't impress me. Why does there always have to be a romance? It's kind of sad. I'm not playing it to lay or get laid by some pixels. I play it to kill some pixels.

Modifié par Ezohiguma, 31 mars 2011 - 11:51 .

[MasterSolo]

Sylvianus wrote...

Hop. Another problem pointed to improve in DA3.

Romances. The work was bad for the characters yet interesting.

I tested Isabella. A good romance. But I have not hooked. And if I have not hooked, it's not because of her, it is because of bad work done in the romances in general DAII.

It's simple, romances are performed only by cut-scene very interventionist, with a possibility to choose one or two sentences, and you're done. Unable to leave the cut scene, impossible to master the course. They come, they will not stop or land, as fast as the wind.
 
They ordered the tempo and we have nothing to say. Yes sir, at your service !

Cliiing, The doorbell rang of love, you can get your cut scene of 2 seconds, it said in the newspaper. Hum ! Very bad.

If there were a lot, it could compensate, but how in the game? Not much cut-scene throughout the game separated by a long time to do lots of quests.

Could not give a kiss when we want, to hold its Li in its arms. To develop a dialogue when we want with our wives or companions dumb that interact with each other, as if we were not there.

Ultimately, the romances in DA2 were terrible, and very frustrating. Let's be honest. who has not been frustrated ? The characters deserved better.

For my part, I was not impressed and I'm able fingers in the nose finish this game without romance ( as useless in the background and not in impressive in the form), which is the first time in a bioware game for me .

It is imperative to not follow this path for DA3.

Then it is time to take the big leap forward, not backward. It is time to strip the characters when they go to the carnal act. I have seen in The Wither 2 that they had done, Bioware has always made beautiful romances, they can't be left behind in this area .

We are not children. It's ridiculous.

What else to improve ? Ah yes, allow this time for real, romances with NPCs, which wasn't the case like it was said....

This isn't a dating sim you know. How would kissing anytime you want or holding your LI in your arms improve the romance or the relationship between your LI? Simple...it won't. It would be just something aditional that won't impact in any way the overall romance. Although I do agree with you that it needs improving, you're describing it as though the game should be about it, and like I said this isn't a dating sim. And romances in DAII, by far weren't bad, awfull or frustrating. Have you seen some of the other games out there?

The romances were ok, but they definetly need improving. They need a little more depth, that can be added with a slight change in personality for the person you're romancing, and maybe some more dialogue options. and cutscenes. Also a change in the way they talk to you might be an improvement.

[Sylvianus]

Considering that that all costs money, time, disc storage, just what part of the game would you have given up to seen these scenes?  Quests? Actual plot?  Sure, more actual naked nookie and cuddling scenes vs actually progressing the storyline with quests, plot points.   ummm not me. 
Plus, that's more dialogue for the voice actors to do, which means more money and jacks up the price further for content that won't be seen for most runs (as you can only really have 1 love interest finish in the game) if they have scenes like that for all 4 love interests. And some of us won't ever see some of it (I can't stand Anders in this game and won't be romancing him AT ALL).  So that would be a waste to include all that extra coding. 
That kind of stuff is for Modders to make who have the time/talent on their hands to do so, so players can DL what they want to see.  Hopefully Bioware will release a Toolset so we can get really good mods to fill in the blanks of this need.   Frankly I wouldn't have bought DA2 if it was 90dollars and 3 discs of game information to install and nothing more than a Dating Sim game.  I love sims 3 but i buy Dragon Age for the plot/adventure.

But romances are an important part of the adventure. If adventure is epic, sweeping away the romance can contribute greatly to grow it, grow loyalty to this game, the excitement. It grows the rpg. As was the case with Morrigan. And romances in M1.

Abort, or discredit this part, is to lose considerable charm to the bioware's games. In the end they may decide not to invest heavily in this area, but they really will reap the benefit ? I really doubt it.

Saving money in where they receive the most support, more enthusiasm seems to me a great mistake.

That kind of stuff is for Modders to make who have the time/talent on their hands to do so, so players can DL what they want to see. Hopefully Bioware will release a Toolset so we can get really good mods to fill in the blanks of this need.

The problem is that console gamers are bound to have more and more bad romances, since Bioware considers more and more that quality is relative to the lower price. Pc gamers will always have their mod to save the furniture, but the gamer players ? Will they find themselves disconnected with their romances every Bioware 's games ? Since they decided to make that strange way ?

Yet they must know that romaces are part of the strength of their game and a huge attraction, especially in the female part. My sister was very frustrated, altrought she was fine with Fenris. She does not play much DAII as completely disconnected with her romance.

Yet she has replayed a lot of time dao, just for romance with Allistair. Okay I admit she plays to DA just for that, but still.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 01 avril 2011 - 12:03 .

[sylvanaerie]

Not saying that there isn't room for it. The game would be as full as it needs to be but just saying HOW much content are you willing to pay for? Sebastian was a DLC offered for free if you preordered months prior to game release but 7 dollars if you waited. He obviously could have been included in the original game (he was certainly as fully integrated as Shale was) but he was still "DLC".
Plus, I don't need a lot of nookie, cuddle scenes. I'd rather just play the game. And all those scenes would have to be scored, dialogued, animated for each individual love interest, making it a lot of extra coding for a small population of players. I can just imagine Fenris with all those fancy tattoos all over his chest being a programming nightmare to create and animate all for 15 seconds of actual game play that only those who romance him will see. Not everyone will romance some of the offered LI's for whatever reasons (as i stated above, any extra coding around Anders would have been wasted on me).
Nor do I think that any of the LI's will get Romance based DLCs as that's just not cost effective for Bioware catering to one segment of the gaming community.

[noxsachi]

MasterSolo wrote...


This isn't a dating sim you know. How would kissing anytime you want or holding your LI in your arms improve the romance or the relationship between your LI? Simple...it won't. It would be just something aditional that won't impact in any way the overall romance. Although I do agree with you that it needs improving, you're describing it as though the game should be about it, and like I said this isn't a dating sim. And romances in DAII, by far weren't bad, awfull or frustrating. Have you seen some of the other games out there?

The romances were ok, but they definetly need improving. They need a little more depth, that can be added with a slight change in personality for the person you're romancing, and maybe some more dialogue options. and cutscenes. Also a change in the way they talk to you might be an improvement.

Yeah totally, some small changes of dialogue here and there would be nice. I like how Aveline recongized I was seeing Isabela. I would've like some changes in Izzy's Act III gift dialogue if you had won her love though, since doing it after that felt a little wierd. Small things like that would totally help.

[Sylvianus]

This isn't a dating sim you know.

Wait they did it in DAO and M2. Seriously, you don't see that there has been a regression in this area. You could kiss Morrigan, why they have it in dao and remove it in DA2? Why in every area we always felt there was no evolution, but they just pulled something?

Unfortunately the field of romance is also the one area where we must move to stay in the race. Always say, this is not the sims to stop thinking about other avenues bolder, it is not moving forward.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 01 avril 2011 - 12:15 .

[Tigress M]

This has been my stance since my first playthrough. I'm not one who needs to see pixel sex, but I sorely missed those little intimate moments we got in Origins. Things like getting a rose, or having bad poetry read to us, being able to kiss our LIs once in awhile, etc.

I actually liked not being able to enter into dialog with them while exploring, but again the OPs right, there should be some (even once an Act would have helped) dialog Hawke can initiate with their companions (or at least their LIs) on their terms, not their quest log's.

Modifié par Tigress M, 01 avril 2011 - 12:16 .

[remote_control_me]

I actually really liked these romances, mainly because of the way the story was told.
What i mean by that is i really liked that the companions didnt fall in love with you after a few days (like in mass effect and dragon age origins). It took several years for them to have feelings for you and it just seemed natural. No romance was forced on you, but it was available.

I also liked how you could be rivals and still have a romance!

[sylvanaerie]

Really? To be able to kiss your LI anywhere in game (like you can Alistair or Morrigan) would up the anty on it for you? Maybe it would be nice and I certainly was guilty of doing that a few times but frankly I stopped after I had seen it enough.
It's the same scene repeated over and over without variance. You couldn't alter the dialogue, you couldn't change the scene (except you got preset dialogues with different party members) unless you used a mod to change it.
So you are thinking a scene like that with cuddle scenes (that also repeat with the same stale dialogue/animations) would affect a connection with a pixilated romantic partner in a video game?
They could have added more dialogues maybe with the chosen LI. And some of it could have been handled in a more believable manner. (The three year gap with little character development was pretty hard to swallow).
But, again, I don't play the game for the romances, I play it for adventure/plot. The romance just adds a little spice to the meal, it isn't the whole enchilada for me.

[MICHELLE7]

People talk about rpg elements being stripped down...I think it was the romances that were stripped down. The lack of romantic dialogue was ridiculous. I don't think I got more than 3 lines for Merrill before the big(or should I say small) romance scene.

Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if we didn't have ME and DAO to compare it to. ME was heavy in the big payoff scene and DAO had tons of romance dialogue...seems they should be going forward in this department not backwards. It was one of the few complaints I had about the game.

[Aurelet]

Being able to talk to your companions at their home would have greatly benefitted the immersion. Also we now have a voiced protagonist. Why can't we have a party banter where we can interact with them? And telling them to be quiet doesn't count in my book.

[sylvanaerie]

Somewhere on the boards I read David Gaider posted there were the same amounts of dialogue with DA2 as there were in DAO with the companions, just spaced out over the years. I could run through almost all of Alistair's dialogue tree right out of Lothering and not have much to say beyond plot driven convos most of the rest of the game.
It's the time difference that hits me. With DAO we had 1 year of game time. With DA2 we are given 7 years. There really should have been more dialogue instead of time jumping and we pick up like we just saw (X) NPC yesterday. Like...I really don't see Merrill for 4 years and then she shows me an almost finished Eluvian? Really? Fenris takes 3 years to apologize for his idiotic behavior following the only bout of sex we get with him in the years we know him? Really?
I suppose imagination must serve to fill in the gaps when it comes to sex (Outside of a convo with Merrill about Dog watching when they 'you know' I didn't even realize PC and LI were having conjugal visits).
Maybe there were just a lot of boring convos in between that didn't amount to a hill of beans.
Frankly I was more attached to Varric and Aveline than any of the other companions and you can't romance either of those two. Aveline was there almost from the beginning and Varric was one of the first real friends you make in Kirkwall and approves of just about everything Hawke does (is there a way to get Rivalry with him without being a total dickweed?)

[Kabraxal]

There just need to be more options to talk to the characters. Even non romanced characters in Origins had things to say that deepened their character. Some of that was lost when the development was relegated to banter for the most part. Really, I want to interact with them, not watch them interact with everyone else.