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Romances in DAII were bad !


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#26
haroldhardluck

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Ezohiguma wrote...

What's the point of those romances anyway? Don't try to sell them with the roleplay part. "Hey, we have an archdemon to kill and if we fail all of Ferelden will fall, lots of people will die, but first, let's do some shaggin'!"


The romances were very popular in Baldur's Gate where the idea originated. Some player like to think there is more to CRPGs than killing thousands of orcs.

In DA2 one romance is key to getting one companion to stay. It is much easier to get Isabella to stay around if you bed her.

Harold

#27
NedPepper

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Both Merril and Anders have very sweet romance stories. My issue comes with sanitizing them so much.  The game is rated M.  We don't need PG 13 romance....(Hey, my first complaint post!  I must be officially part of these boards now...Posted Image)

#28
Bayz

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What I don't like of Romances in DA2 is that you can't have sexy time everytime you want (or maybe is because Isabela didn't move to my home)

I remember draining Alistair before handing him to Anora in my first Origins playthrough...

#29
haroldhardluck

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Kabraxal wrote...
There just need to be more options to talk to the characters. Even non romanced characters in Origins had things to say that deepened their character. Some of that was lost when the development was relegated to banter for the most part. Really, I want to interact with them, not watch them interact with everyone else.


There is far more talking with your companions in this game than in DAO. Every act starts off with you heading off to every companion for a conversation. There are conservations during the act for many companions, especially Varric. Varric is clearly your faithful sidekick as you have so many conversations with him that is just chitchat.

The development conversations that you want are in the game as quests to talk to your companions. This a better system that DAO where you had to constantly start a conversation and get stock replies most of the time because it was not the moment for a development conversation. Or have a development conversation sprung on you because you got tired of stock responses and stopped talkting to them.

Maybe the development conversations would be more natural if instead of being presented as quests, a marker such as the ! would appear over them when they are in your party. Periodically you have to rotate through the party to get everyone leveled up and equipped with the latest loot so it is your negligence if you missed the marker.

Harold

#30
sylvanaerie

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Bayz wrote...

What I don't like of Romances in DA2 is that you can't have sexy time everytime you want (or maybe is because Isabela didn't move to my home)

I remember draining Alistair before handing him to Anora in my first Origins playthrough...


The "old ball and chain" comment takes on new dimensions on this import.  Or a political marriage with a Cousland.Posted Image

#31
Kabraxal

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haroldhardluck wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...
There just need to be more options to talk to the characters. Even non romanced characters in Origins had things to say that deepened their character. Some of that was lost when the development was relegated to banter for the most part. Really, I want to interact with them, not watch them interact with everyone else.


There is far more talking with your companions in this game than in DAO. Every act starts off with you heading off to every companion for a conversation. There are conservations during the act for many companions, especially Varric. Varric is clearly your faithful sidekick as you have so many conversations with him that is just chitchat.

The development conversations that you want are in the game as quests to talk to your companions. This a better system that DAO where you had to constantly start a conversation and get stock replies most of the time because it was not the moment for a development conversation. Or have a development conversation sprung on you because you got tired of stock responses and stopped talkting to them.

Maybe the development conversations would be more natural if instead of being presented as quests, a marker such as the ! would appear over them when they are in your party. Periodically you have to rotate through the party to get everyone leveled up and equipped with the latest loot so it is your negligence if you missed the marker.

Harold


There was actually less to me.  You have a few events scattered throughout the game, whereas you have quite a few conversations you can have with characters in Origins.  If you put all the conversation you can have back to back to back, I have a suspcioun the cumalitive total of say Leli's entire sequences matched to Merrill's would show that the interactive "at home" dialogue is far more substantial in Origins.

Or maybe it's just that the dialogue system in Origins was just that much better at delivering this interaction than the wheel.   

#32
Bayz

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sylvanaerie wrote...

Bayz wrote...

What I don't like of Romances in DA2 is that you can't have sexy time everytime you want (or maybe is because Isabela didn't move to my home)

I remember draining Alistair before handing him to Anora in my first Origins playthrough...


The "old ball and chain" comment takes on new dimensions on this import.  Or a political marriage with a Cousland.Posted Image


A Grey Warden dynasty. There is a limit on how much more bad ass it could get :lol:

#33
Clarence2679

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I agree the Romances were not exciting at all the love scenes were terrible. At least In DA:O you could go and spend quality time, with the Li's: hopefully DA 3 will improve vastly on this.

#34
frustratemyself

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To see the depth of the relationships develop more over time would have been nice.

My favourite Bioware romance so far has been in Mass Effect with Kaidan. You got to know him over time and playing as my usual goody-goody you got some really sweet dialogue and had that sweet tension build over time. You didn't quite get that in DA2. You have to use your imagination more to fill in the gaps.

And lets face it if any of us had any imagination left would we all be spending this much time obsessing over computer games Posted Image

#35
Zubie

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the DA2 romances were okay but I definitely preferred how they were implemented into Origins. Sure you could exhaust their dialogue trees early in the game with lots of gifts and such, but I just made sure I only spoke to them a few times in-between each major plot hub. There was still a ton of dialogue and also different dialogue options available when speaking to your companions.

In DA2 you just flirt, what, twice and then they show up at your house for sexy time.

DA:O in my opinion is Bioware's best work when it comes to the romance sub-plots. They are all very well done. Leliana is an all-time favourite for me.

#36
MasterSolo

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Sylvianus wrote...

This isn't a dating sim you know.

Wait they did it in DAO and M2. Seriously, you don't see that there has been a regression in this area. You could kiss Morrigan, why they have it in dao and remove it in DA2? Why in every area we always felt there was no evolution, but they just pulled something?

Unfortunately the field of romance is also the one area where we must move to stay in the race. Always say, this is not the sims to stop thinking about other avenues bolder, it is not moving forward.


As stated before, the cuddling and kissing was a bonus, and it wasn't necessary for the romance to move forward. The DA:O and ME2 romances are considered to be better, NOT because of the cuddling and kissing, ok? It's about the depth of the relationship, and how it affects the other party. It was a regression in the area for DA2 because the romances seem like they needed a little more depth, and not because they removed the kissing and cuddling. I would love to see Isabela's personality change a little, and for her to refuse Zevran outright, than having the option of kissing her when I wanted but her just going and getting laid with Zevran ,although I'm in a relationship with her.

A slight improvement is necessary for romances, but it didn't affect my overall game experience.

#37
MasterSolo

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easygame88 wrote...

the DA2 romances were okay but I definitely preferred how they were implemented into Origins. Sure you could exhaust their dialogue trees early in the game with lots of gifts and such, but I just made sure I only spoke to them a few times in-between each major plot hub. There was still a ton of dialogue and also different dialogue options available when speaking to your companions.

In DA2 you just flirt, what, twice and then they show up at your house for sexy time.

DA:O in my opinion is Bioware's best work when it comes to the romance sub-plots. They are all very well done. Leliana is an all-time favourite for me.


Agreed, there was a lot more time to develop your relationship with the desired party member. In DA2 it goes a little too fast, that probably can be given fault to the fast release of the game, but who knows.

Modifié par MasterSolo, 01 avril 2011 - 04:05 .


#38
Zubie

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MasterSolo wrote...

Agreed, there were a lot more time to develop your relationship with the desired party member. In DA2 it goes a little too fast, that probably can be given fault to the fast release of the game, but who knows.


Well I reached Act 2, did Merrill's companion quest and flirted with her once or twice and then she shows up at my house that night.

I thought...whoa, already?

#39
highcastle

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I actually like the way the romances were handled. Yes, it took me a moment to adjust to not being able to talk to my companions whenever I wanted. At first this actually bothered me quite a bit. Now I understand it more. Your companions speak up more during quests. There's more banter. They react to your decisions more. You don't see all of this up front, but by the middle of Act 2 I definitely no longer felt like conversations were lacking.

As for the romances specifically, I thought they were handled well. I loved the inclusion of the flirt icon so I knew exactly when I'd be putting the moves on a character. I also thought the arcs were really well written. Anders' in particular ties perfectly into the main storyline. I felt more connected to him, particularly with the moving in aspect, than to the LIs in Origins. Another reason for this is the reactions by your companions and family members. Leandra, Isabela, Aveline, Sebastian, Merrill, Varic, and Gamlen all have something to say about your LI. This was a change from Origins where Al and Morrigan were noticed but Leliana and Zev were largely ignored except for a handful of dialogues. I felt like other characters noticed my romance, that it mattered to them, and thus it mattered more to me.

I didn't miss the exclusion of a kiss animation wherever I wanted, because I didn't get this in Origins. I tend to play same-sex romances, and this was missing from both Leliana and Zevran's vanilla romances. And, frankly, the kiss animations in DA2 were handled far better. They were steamier, there was more emotion in the blocking. I don't miss the awkward sex scenes, either. The DA2 love scenes might not have been explicit, but they were engaging. Pushing Fenris against the wall, leading Anders to bed, disarming Isabela. They were all very different moments and very in keeping with the particular characters.

All that being said, I wouldn't say no to more dialogue with our LIs and other companions. This is not a bad thing. I love the writing and characters of this game (and most BioWare games), and it always leaves me hungering for more. They could probably double the word budget and I would still thirst for more interaction. That's a sign of good writing.

Edit: I forgot to address the timing issue, as so many people feel the romances are rushed. I think this depends on your play style. I tend to bring my LI with me everywhere, and the way this game works, companions have a lot to say on different quests. It's part of how you get to know them. So I hauled Anders everywhere with me during Act One. Plus there was his companion quest, Tranquility and a reaction dialogue after it. Then Act 2 comes around and I repeat the pattern. He talks during any quest even tangentally related to mages. He also has dialogue at the begin of the act, before Dissent, during Dissent, after Dissent, and during his Questioning Beliefs. That's 5 dedicated conversations not to mention his comments during quests and banters with companions. By the time he kissed Hawke during Questioning Beliefs and asked to come spend the night, I felt like I knew him just fine.

Plus, Hawke's known him for 3 years at this point. That's quite a long time to get to know someone. If you look for ways to interact with your companions, you can find them. It's just a bit more work than clicking on them repeatedly by the campfire until they have nothing new to say anymore.

Modifié par highcastle, 01 avril 2011 - 03:58 .


#40
Inzhuna

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Don't know, I enjoyed the romances much more in DA2 and they felt deeper to me than in DAO but I'm probably in minority. Merrill's romance is my least favourite, probably, even though I adore her character.

#41
txgoldrush

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Romance depends on the character

Merrills rivalmance was really well done. Isabella had a good romance arc too. However, Anders is BAD!!!!

#42
Kinaori

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Kabraxal wrote...

There just need to be more options to talk to the characters. Even non romanced characters in Origins had things to say that deepened their character. Some of that was lost when the development was relegated to banter for the most part. Really, I want to interact with them, not watch them interact with everyone else.


This.  There's really only 2 scenes where you can really interact with them for romances, that's the problem.  What *was* there for romances I thought was lovely, it just didn't seem natural that you couldn't talk with them more often, have them take more of an interest in you (was it just me or did it seem like they never really asked about us?) and have a more natural progression.

As another poster said, I am all for removing some of the more silly useless quests and whatnot if we could have more companion interaction.

All that said, I did still get sucked into it.  Just think DA:O handled this better.

#43
McHoger

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I can understand not liking the romances in DA2. But, when you think the romances in DA2 are bad and the ones in DA:O are good, is where I start to question your judgement.

#44
wulfsturm

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YOU'RE BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD.

#45
Foolsfolly

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Kabraxal wrote...

There just need to be more options to talk to the characters. Even non romanced characters in Origins had things to say that deepened their character. Some of that was lost when the development was relegated to banter for the most part. Really, I want to interact with them, not watch them interact with everyone else.


Or waiting for the game to tell you to talk to them.

This is the big problem. The romances are actually fine, I think they're better than the Zev/Leliana romances from the last game (plus I'm not too keen on Alistair's romance but fangirls seem to like him so there's something about that that works for some people). I like the romances probably more this time around than last.

The problem's talking.

You barely talk to the characters. And the two that move in? Anders and Merrill...feels like a missed opprotunity for something there. They moved in and they never speak in the house ever. Other than that one line of repeatable dialogue.

This was the same problem as Mass Effect 2. You went from talking to people 8-10 times in ME1 to talking to Garrus 2 times in the whole game (like 3-4 if romanced). Having about 3-4 times with Miranda/Jack/Tali/Jacob without inadvertedly starting their romance. The character work in both DA2 and ME2 are, in my opinion, better than the first games.You just don't get to know the characters as well.

#46
erynnar

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@Foolsfolly, I always wanted to romance Zaeed myself, but his gun might get jealous. :kissing::wub::lol:

I hated not being able to talk to my companions more often. Wished they'd all move into Hawke's house like the camp in DAO so you could talk to them whenever. Or they all show up for a bbq at Hawke's house on occasion. I really missed that down time, and it save me reading codexes instead of experiencing them as people (even if pixelated). I don't feel the depth of connection to them like I did in DAO.

Oh and the dialogue for the romances felt like they were ripped out of the "Twilight" series (which I depise with the heat of a thousand suns).  "I'm hungry", as a response to your lover? Seriously? And you get no rivalry points. Try laying someone and telling them when they are doing pillow talk that you're hungry and want a sandwich. See if they don't slap you or leave in a huff. Instead, Anders asks to move in with you...LAME.

Modifié par erynnar, 01 avril 2011 - 05:33 .


#47
Drew_Weidner

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The romance arcs did feel a little lackluster. It wasn't a matter of the characters being under-developed, there simply wasn't enough interaction available with your LI. It's a shame since I really enjoyed Merrill as a character and LI (except that damned bug with her quest line in act 3).

#48
Foolsfolly

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It is weird that the Codex updates on the characters tell you more about the characters than talking to them does. Like Anders's Act 3 codex telling you that he's paranoid and losing control more often. It probably would have meant more to see him paranoid and losing control more often in Act 3. The 'almost/totally killing a mage' bit is from Act 2, for example.

It just doesn't feel like you spend enough time with the characters. The Warden spends less than a year with the companions of DA:O and I knew them all well enough to guess which gifts went to who (without codex help or internet help...except for Sten. Never would have thought paintings went to him, I thought they went to Wynne on my first playthrough).

#49
Bayz

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Well Alistair mentions the medallion in one of the conversations as well and Leliana the flower...and Zevran the gloves. Apart from that you just guess that the rest of gifts goes to whom. I loved to give Alistair Dog's gifts though, he seemed to enjoy them big time.

I'm pretty sure the Codex is something that Hawke writes down like in a Diary. He puts smiles and nods to Anders and then writes down "Psycho emo whiny mass murderor" in the diary :P (If you are romancing him probably is more like "Hawt psycho emo whiny mass murderor")

Modifié par Bayz, 01 avril 2011 - 08:43 .


#50
Ravvenor

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I did miss the in depth romance of Morrigan. Also the fact that I could not interact with the romance outside of quests made me think the romances were way less involved.