84 réponses à ce sujet

[pbaq]

I think that as a community, a lot of Bioware gamers have been with them through a lot of games and watched a lot of things evolve over time. The romances have been a part of the immersion of the games for a long time, and this time it really took a step backwards. There is a lot of comparison to ME2, but the difference here, I think is that the pace of Shepard's romances worled differently because of the relentless pace of the game. The romances here seem absolutely like they were put in because that's what we expected. Over the course of a ten year relationship with Isabela, you get the "I was curious" scene in act 2, and then no other indication that you're even IN a romance until act 3 she says she's falling for you. No other changes in story or anything else. If you're playing as a straight male in this game, your options really suck. Merrill or Isabela? A deluded blood mage twit or a total ho? Wow. Give me the choice between Leliana and Morrigan anytime.

[Suron]

yah the Romances blew, even if the characters did not.

you get no real time to get to know them...you're thrown very little...have very few cutscenes and dialogue with them....they're NOTHING like the romances in DA:O...

It's hard to comment on the "romances" without bringing up the game as a whole..but it's all connected..the romances are short, lame, and forced because the game was too rushed.

Seriously even if you like the Companions better in DA2 over DA:O's I can't possibly see anyone arguing the romances were better.

Morrigan and Zevran took off their pants easily but their romances really "blossomed" as you went on...Leliana and Alistair had a lot deeper romances that had to be taken farther to get them to drop their trousers.

In DA2 you get a gift or two..and short dialogue, maybe one or two dialogue initiations and their "companion quests" and that's all you get to "get to know them." (but to be fair the "companion quests" were beter as a whole in DA2)  DA:O romances, though, felt more like real relationships that developed much more realistically. And brought you "closer" to said "love interest."

I always play through at least once as a female and do the male romances.  I'm not a stereotypical male that goes for the lesbian relationship with my female characters...both Alistair and Zevran were extremely well done...As was Leliana and Morrigan..each were different but had their own depth.  With all the dialogue and interaction you had with them you really grew to know them as a character.

In DA2 I've done Isabella's romance up to trading her for Merrill in Act 3..Merrills...with male Hawkes...and Anders with a female mage hawke.  And there's almost nothing there..and I LIKE the characters for the most part..(Isabella being a tramp is too overdone and get's old, Merrill I could only get into after using a mod to make her look older then 12, and while I like Anders he's a shadow of how great he was in DA:O-A).  I haven't done Fenris yet and probably won't because I doubt I can stomache another playthrough with the more limited options in DA2, but from what it seems he's not going to be any different....I mean there is like nothing there..no real feeling....not like DA:O's LI's.

The things that happen just fall to the side in DA2 because of the short, forced on you, story.  Merrill's stupidity with the mirror and blood magic would have affected me more if she had the buildup, interaction, and depth of Morrigan....Isabella running off (and perhaps coming back) with the book would have hit home more if she had the buildup, interaction, and depth of Leliana.....And I would have felt the "sting" of what Anders did as my female mages lover if he had the buildup, interaction, and depth of Alistair...As it is though there is just no feeling.  No real caring.

BioWare needs to take a step back and see what their "streamlining" is doing...cutting the things their cutting, like character depth, setup, and backstories is an embarrassment.

Modifié par Suron, 01 avril 2011 - 12:42 .

[kaimanaMM]

I'm 100% with highcastle.

I tend to take my chosen LI everywhere, so the moment Fenris showed up and punched through that bounty hunter with his glowy fist of awesome, I was hooked.  He rarely leaves my side.  And boy does that man have alot to say.  I may not be able to show up on his doorstep and talk to him at will, but nearly everything I was involved in evoked a response from him.  As did my companions.  Would I have liked a shirtless Fenris?  You bet.  But, I'm not wholly disappointed with a steamy glowing wall slam (or even a non glowy wall slam).  And honestly, the wall slam speaks volumes about the relationship between Hawke and Fenris.

Like Aria says, everyone always wants more.  I'm no exception to that rule.  I could do with less fetch quests and more story.  I could do with less recycled maps and more companion interaction. I thought the romances in DA2 were done well and moved at a natural pace (though, Fenris could've taken less than 3 years to come to his senses, but it's understandable, if not a little too subtle why he does so if you paid attention to his story).  In the end, I prefered the way DA2 did companions reacting to Hawke / Hawke's decision / the environment over endless exposition around a campfire.  To me, it brought the world alive and made the characters themselves three dimensional.

[Sylvianus]

I enjoyed reading you Suron. That's exactly what I felt. You have said everything in these two particular lines :

you get  no real time to get to know them...you're thrown very little...have very few cutscenes and dialogue with them....they're NOTHING like the romances in DA:O... It's hard to comment on the "romances"
without bringing up the game as a whole..but it's all connected..the romances are short, lame, and forced because the game was too rushed.

I enjoyed the characters much more DA2, and yet I feel no connection at all. A real step backwards in this area.

Those who say that romances are better in DA2 Oo, you can explain your views, I can understand ?

Avoiding of course tell me that the characters, you've felt like best, is not the issue.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 01 avril 2011 - 07:12 .

[haroldhardluck]

Kabraxal wrote...
There was actually less to me.  You have a few events scattered throughout the game, whereas you have quite a few conversations you can have with characters in Origins.  If you put all the conversation you can have back to back to back, I have a suspcioun the cumalitive total of say Leli's entire sequences matched to Merrill's would show that the interactive "at home" dialogue is far more substantial in Origins.

Or maybe it's just that the dialogue system in Origins was just that much better at delivering this interaction than the wheel.   

You really had to court Leliana but she was exceptional. In DAO a female character only had to chose the nice dialogue option just once and Alistair was head over heels in love with you. Zevran would jump in bed with you as quickly. In DA2 all the romances had short courtships instead of a mixture of long and short as in DAO. However with Merrill the post courtship relationship was very long. Once you bedded Leliana, that was really the end. There were no additional scenes afterwards. With Merrill there were several dialogs where you talked with her about her personal problems like an actual married couple working out how to live as a couple instead of two individuals. If you bedded Isabella and then married Merrill, you had additional dialog with Isabella that acknowledged the marriage. I found the love relationships in DA2 to be far more adult than the ones in DAO.

Harold

[Torax]

Here is the thing. Comparing a relationship in DA2 to one in Origins is hard. Origins romances though were much like they usually are. The character you to talk to longer. ME2 followed that same kind of format. A female can to Jack or Miranda say 3-4 times total. A male gets to have an extra few conversations. Origins had a bit of this as well. Infact with gifts. Besides the quest stuff for Leliana, you could get almost all conversations in camp done on the first visit. Travel to que the attack. Go handle marj, go back to camp and talk and you're done.

Now DA2 does at least attempt to play the long term relationship part. It feels rushed cause it's set in Acts for better or worse.

Act 1, recruiting the character. Then you get to talk to them once or twice. You get a chance to flirt in the same conversation. Act 2, you talk to them again. Get them a gift. Eventually get a quest. Closing of quest. Help them question their beliefs. They may approach you at your home if you played your cards right. Talk to them once or twice again maybe. Act 3, starting conversation prolly, Get them a new gift. Act 3 quest. Closing of quest. Maybe talk again. Then the end conflict hits. Talk to them again right before fighting Orsino & Meredith. In this talk you get to finish the do the whole committed and loving each other conversation.

It should be noted that for the most part the is only 2 more conversations a player gets to have with the Love Interest than they would have any other companions. That is the real difference than even Mass Effect 2. Flirting mid conversation can completely change it. Also most relationships in the games was about making them be your friend. ME2 had this just where you were a Good Guy or a Bad Guy. That only barely changed how companions though of you. With DA2 you have Friendship & Rivalry romance paths. On top of what you character will say in how you evolved them with your conversation choices through each act.

Modifié par Torax, 02 avril 2011 - 03:32 .

[Wrathra]

They weren't bad at all. They were interesting, but there just wasn't enough dialogue. The heart option cut alot of the dialogue short.

The cutscenes, I thought, were fantastic, huge improvements over DA:O.

Modifié par Wrathra, 02 avril 2011 - 04:03 .

[Torax]

Wrathra wrote...

They weren't bad at all. They were interesting, but there just wasn't enough dialogue. The heart option cut alot of the dialogue short.

The cutscenes, I thought, were fantastic, huge improvements over DA:O.

I do agree it's like they're improving on the model to be honest. The cut scene conversations were a big improvement over ME2 in how you could change the converstions and how your charcter talked. But the other catch is Flirting can totally have you miss out on things sometimes as well as by selecting instead of another option also gives you different info at times. In the end it's pretty fun to play with. Though I'm sure some are just meta gaming all the conversations already.

I do kind of meta game the fade for rivalry heh.

[MrGone]

My only concern over the romances in Dragon Age 2 was that it seemed odd that the available characters had no say in the matter visa vis their sexuality. "You're the hero, therefore they are attracted to you" seems to be the logic. But that kind of logic is one note isn't it? It saps the characters of a bit of personality by making a key part of who they are as people nothing other than that which fits into your taste. This reduces their effective believability if you ask me. Wouldn't it make more sense if say Anders was gay, Fenris was straight, Merril was straight and Isabella was bi (the only character whose sexuality seems justified in errant dialogue)?

As to how they're handled . . . meh the writing on Isabella's romance was sharp and tender in all the right places, if perhaps not as strong as say Jack in Mass Effect 2. Smart writing in smaller amounts seems to make up for a lot of writing that's in a vaster quantity.

[haroldhardluck]

Captain Cornhole wrote...
Personally I felt that the romances were decent, except the fact Bioware made everyone Bi. Making every romance option Bi seem to me as a cheap way to appease each demographic.  And in some cases makeing said character Bi is a total switch from their personality such as in Ander's case where I belive he was straight in DA:O. Any how I would like each romance opertunity to be based off how Bioware writes each character's personality. That would make better material for a more meaningful romance, that said...
 

I suspect making each character bi was simply a way to make programming the romances easier as there was no need to check for a correct sex combination.

As for Anders, my impression of him in Awakening was he was gay.:innocent:

Harold

[PsychoBlonde]

I found the Origins romances boring. I kind of enjoyed Fenris, the others don't appeal.

Oh well, there's always fanshipping with Sten.

[Camenae]

Why are some people still on about the sibling-romance thing? I really hope that it's just trolling. Most of the time I say to each their own, but having sex with your biological sibling is just disgusting.

[Cutlass Jack]

I loved the Isabela romance more than any DAO one. (And I did enjoy those) Just felt very satisfying nearly every step of the way. And I loved the idea of my Hawke sailing off into the sunset with her. Which did technically happen when we fled Kirkwall at the end...

Overall I liked the DA2 romances quite a bit. They felt grounded in the world to me and I loved how they felt like they were part of your life between the scenes you saw. And not just nookie in a tent.

[Woodstock-TC]

Merril was cute, and femhawke adorable.
I enjoyed it.

Modifié par Woodstock-TC, 04 avril 2011 - 10:24 .

[wright1978]

Liked my DA 2 romance with Isabela more than any of romances in Origins. It definitely acted as an impetus that compelled me to pass on sleep and play on. Would have liked more conversational interactions(but like Oliver Twist i'll always want some more please) but much preferred the fact the game dictated progress of your relationship rather than sitting in party camp doling out pressies and having a go at twenty questions.

[Pudricks]

The romances are just too forced and expected. It's a Bioware game but do they really need to put romances in every game? All these possible romances simply cannot be worth all the time and effort. put into them.

[FreyaWazHere]

They have their pro's and con's. I liked Origin's because you had to build a character up and talk to them a bunch before the romance to place. You were friends before lovers. And by the Maker it was hard to try and get Morrigan up high because she seemed to disagree with everything I said.

In 2 it just feels rushed, while the scenes are better (Well if your with Isabella they're better, the others just seemed lacking.) I felt like it was 'Yup quest, oh look I'm flirting, next act, new quest, oh hey, yup I'm still flirting, boom we had sex, end of the game, aww wow this is the first time I get a better sense of you as a lover, gee thanks for that.'

The relationship in 2 doesn't affect the story like it did in Origins. I mean seriously, how can you have Anders blow up the blasted chantry and if you romanced him there are no extra dialog parts in which you're torn apart by his betrayal? Alistair will die for you in some possible endings for Origins. What do they do in 2? Have some sweet little dialog before the final show down.

[NaclynE]

I totally agree with the ground point of the subject.

Merril: She was to flakey for me. She loved me for life.

Fenris: He just flat out burns you. It's like you shag him then he's all like "WHAT HAVE I DONE!" then leaves. I played it off like "WTH?"

Isabella: No group sex with Severen. Shocked. Would explain his denying interest in group sex with her and Leliana or Alister. Also she kind of burns you by saying "Well it's hard for me to kitten".

I swear the characters treat Hawke as a fling and a serious person to have a serious relationship with.

[NaclynE]

"The romances are just too forced and expected. It's a Bioware game but do they really need to put romances in every game? All these possible romances simply cannot be worth all the time and effort. put into them."

I hate to say this Greenleaf6 but Dragon Age 2 was done by just Bioware and not Bioware and Edge of Reality.

[namedforthemoon]

I agree on all points with the OP. I did not feel like I was in love with Fenris, or Anders, or Isabela or Merrill, no matter how much passionate kissing there was for a few seconds. I felt like I was in love with Alistair, and in a real relationship (even though it's just pixels on a screen) because of how Alistair's relationship was drawn out and we got to know each other. With the DA2 romances, it was more like "Okay, I'm flirting, I'm kissing, we're about to have sex, fade to black... That's it?" The motions were there, but the emotions were not there. Dialogue was lacking. Flirting and kissing was really lacking because it was like you could only flirt a few times throughout the game. There needs to be more romantic dialogue, more getting to know you dialogue, more touching, more feeling... Origins had it right with Alistair and Morrigan.

Edit: Although I did like that Fenris would say "I'm yours" or "I like following you" etc when I clicked on him. That made me feel teensy bit closer to him... But not like Alistair when I would click on him and he would say "My love?" like he's ready to lay his life down for me.

Modifié par namedforthemoon, 04 avril 2011 - 10:22 .

[T764]

I am a fence sitter and capable of seeing both sides, i did want to talk to my companions more but not to the point of conversations being;
Hawke: Hello Anders.
Anders: Hello Hawke.
Hawke: Um, Bye.
The actual romances themselves were enjoyable enough (considering my disappointment with the party members in ME1 and DA:O) but yes a SMALL number of extra interactions would have been nice. (Also the female characters that i connected with were Bethany and Aveline, so not a happy bunny)

[erine_]

I was very, very disappointed with the romances in DA2.

Alright, so I' ve just
met Anders and helped him with this Karl problem. So I guess we knew
each other like few hours? But suddenly I hear very melodramatic:
"Oh no, we can be together because I would hurt you and that would break my heart more than bla bla bla ;("
My face:  Okeeeey... Whatever you said. Maybe that line would worked if I knew anything about you, but I guess that's just yours regular pick-up line.

No to mention the fact, that out of curiosity I picked up the flirting lines and I was really embarrassed with them.

Anders: I'm cursed - I'm an abomination <dum,dum,dum,dum!!!>
Hawke: But at least you are sexy abomination <wink, wink>

Let's try with Fenris:

Fenris: He would like to ripe it from my body in terribly painful process
Hawke: Such a waste of perfectly sexy body <wink, wink>

Ok. Reload.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I just find the friendly responses much wiser and suitable for character I wanted to roleplay, and whats more - I felt better connection with my companions with friendly responses than with flirting one.

That's my other problem - I understand that this icon is for people so they didn't end up in a something they are not interested in. Ok,
but I was thinking that after I pick-up one heart line I would be set
up in a "romantic path" so now I can choose to either take initiative or
let the other side to work to steal my heart.
Well... rather not.
In the middle of the game I realised that if I want my character to have
relationship I have to act as a molester. You missed this one icon we
had in mind - sorry sister, no love for you.

That's my problem for example with Fenris -
so because I didn't have sex with him three years ago, now, after he
said he is alone I can't tell him he is not and that I love him? Yes,
very, very mature.

This is my main problem - you either have sex
with him now or NEVER!!!!! <buahahaa>. So what if I want to play
as a character who goes to bed with someone after she is sure she is
loved? Sorry, this is our game so play along or be alone forever   

So this is it - in my opinion romances in DA2 don't allow role-playing. The writers had one path in mind and you have to follow. For example I like my badass characters
to be shy in romantic department and not flirting type, the one that is
not taking sex lightly - could I play as such character? Sure, but then
suddenly everyone is blind to your beauty, strength and wisdom

Well, maybe I'm really outdated and I'm not going to hide that I don't care about watching sex in a videogame.
I'm a sucker for silent, never expressed love - like in Crouching
Tiger, Hidden Dragon or to be more in the game department - like weird
relationship with Bishop from Nwn2 or Atton Rand from KOTOR2, when you can wonder whats really going on.
I know I'm definitely in
minority here, but I can't help the fact that I don't like this forcing you to sexy talk.
In DA:O we have much better options to role-play our
character - you could have a fling, you could have something really
deep. In DA2 this options are not existing - your character have to said
this thing in this moment because we say so.
And to neatly end this too long post - I don't like it

[Sylvianus]

@erine_

Your post isn't too long, it's just accurate.

In any case, there are many points where I'll join you.

I also hated to see the heart in the dialogues. Please Bioware, remove it, especially if we don't want to think that all characters are bi, which may seem ridiculous and break the immersion for many players.

Having just a single sentence to the dredge sucks, we don't have many ways to flirt. We only have one path, that of hearth, that of Hawk again.

If you don't choose the sentence with the heart, the romance can not continue. We are forced.

What I don't understand is that DA had a head start on Mass Effect, compared to romance, why did they decide to reduce their level, and level perhaps even worse than that of M1 , if you look at everything this has been shortened level dialogue.

Seriously, sometimes we have the bell of love which warns us that our romance will talk to us. We're pleased, we say we'll have a great conversation in love, deep and friendly, actually not. It's just to say two or three words.

For example, Merrill said that, just welcome to me, you want to drink, I'm afraid all alone, then that's all. We learn absolutely nothing about her past. We can not concern ourselves with it, it's just a wave discussion.

We chose the only sentence that can deepen the relationship, the one with the heart. Hawk and simply said, oh you are too cute Merril. (on ​​the tone of friendship) Okaaay.

That's it. Hmm ... Leliana or compare with Morrigan, and all possibilities of drag ...

And the fact that the relationship occurs in 10 years, is expanding even more this feeling of sloppy way.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 04 avril 2011 - 07:18 .

[Volourn]

D2 romances are done as well if not better than previous BIO romances. To say otherwise is to be silly.