193 réponses à ce sujet

[matttco]

Ok, I normally don't post on these forums; in fact I don't post on gaming forums in general. Because I dislike trolls, I dislike these people who think their opinion is the only one that matters and that whatever or whoever their complaining about owes them whatever they want. Some people are very open-minded and constructive, if they don’t like something they provide a valid reason or list of reasons why, aka constructive criticism. Others just say I hate this, this sucks and anyone who has a different opinion is dumb or wrong…that helps no ones cause.

But after reading post after post with all this hate and yelling that “Bioware sold out” or “EA ruined them” or even the worst (which I read and thankfully got deleted yesterday)that anyone who likes DA2 should die, I felt I had to say something.

BioWare is still one of the best game developers out there, period. They don't owe any of you anything, they made a choice to go in a different direction, and while you have every right to call them out on some of those choices, the hate and mean-spiritedness towards them is insane. Even if you hated the new direction they still made games that you loved, otherwise why else are you here posting on their forums?

Yes, you bought their games, your loyal you feel they owe you this or that,
Guess what they don’t, you can be reasonable and voice your problems but
throwing out mean comments just makes you look bad and their not going to
listen to you.

BioWare consonantly make games that find a balance between hardcore and the mainstream. I love that they put emphasis on character and story in an industry that is usually quite barren in those areas. Dragon Age 2 may not be as deep or long, or as epic as of story as DAO in your opinion but it still is really well written with great characters who have great personalities and stories. Personally I like DA2 characters and stories 100% better then Orgins but that’s just my opinion I don’t think that its right or wrong to say that I know it’s an opion and I don’t think anyone who liked DAO story more is dumb for thinking otherwise.

I really really enjoyed DA2, It’s one of the best games I played this year. I know it's no where near perfect, it's a tad buggy, flawed and yes reuses some things a tad much but its still a great 40 hour + game. Which I had a ton of fun with and will revisit again in the future.

Now I just want to give you some background. I started a pc gamer, played the older Bioware games on PC. My Pc became super outdated and I was sick of playing upgrade catch-up and I became a console gamer. I played Mass 1 on Xbox and Mass 2 originally on 360. I loved Mass Effect 1 and 2, I felt like finally a smart mans shooter, real rpg-like elements, real choices and story but yet a shooter.Again not perfect but still Mass 2 is one of my favorite games in the past couple years.

Since I loved Bioware and the Mass Effect series I tried to play Dragon Age on 360 Age (not for very long) and did not like the combat. It was too slow and just not my cup of tea. I also read the console version was a bad pc port, so I put it off, I thought I would one day revisit it when I got a PC.

A couple of months ago I got back into PC gaming got a new system and replayed Mass 1 and 2 which I
enjoyed them even more on the PC (mouse and keyboard, plus high res graphics
ftw).  I then got Dragon Age 2 and loved it, thought the combat was great, loved switching between characters. How fast and fluid the combat was. I liked that it was an adult story that took risks, says a lot and
covered some really tricky themes and subjects.

I thought damn, Dragon Age 2 is great, I need to give DA0 another shot asap. Even though it just didn’t click on the console, I’ll try it on the pc. Wow first it is way better on pc, better control, better combat however it is a really different game from DA2. Much more Lord of The Rings and hardcore fantasy/rpg, slower combat its just much more of an old school RPG. I found it a lot better and playable on Pc (just my personal preference) and had some fun, but I definitely like Dragon Age 2 faster combat, characters and (people will hate me) story better.

So when I started reading all the hate online got it. The hardcore fans of the first game, wanted more of that game. Instead they got something totally different and it kind of came left field, it’s more of a reboot then a sequel. To be fair it was called Dragon Age 2, so it’s expected for people to think this is more origins when it’s not. However It does not suck, and it is not a horrible game at all. Tons of people love it and are having a lot of fun with it, I’m sorry that it doesn’t click with some but this is not a case of they messed up and made something horrible, the reviews and others who like the game I think disprove this. It’s a good game, sorry it’s not what you wanted you can voice some why but calm down with all the hate it’s not the end of the world.

The best example I can relate to this is my other nerd love besides gaming, Batman. It’s just like fighting with Batman 89 fans, you have this group that loves Tim Burton and his films, and then Batman Begins comes out with this more realistic grounded version that’s less fantasy and it doesn’t click with some of these other fans who like their version of Batman and they immediately start saying the new one sucks. Only there are people who for them this is the only version they know and they love it, or there are people
thought this was a step in the right direction and then there are people who
like both but may prefer one or the other, then people who think it’s a wrong
step, and then people who just hate it. I feel this is where Dragon Age 2 falls
it’s just different, it is more streamlined and faster and a different beast,
it’s cooler and less LOTR and more Piratey. It’s like Batman Begins or TDK to
BATMAN 89 and Batman Returns…it however is not Batman forever or Batman and Robin

So I just want to say to everyone that keeps saying this sucks, or Bioware messed up, or this guy needs to get fired, to calm down a bit. It’s different and it may not be what you wanted, but it doesn’t suck and its not horrible, it’s different. Listen again Bioware is a great developer, they listen, and I’m sure Dragon Age 3 will be a bit of both 1 and 2, it will keep the elements people loved about 2 and bring back elements it forgot from 1. So calm down, all is fine, just voice your concerns or what you don’t like but lets cut all the hate out.

(edited for strange formatting)

Modifié par matttco, 01 avril 2011 - 08:07 .

[Auroras]

I agree.

[TJSolo]

Dragon Age 2: Can we please stop all the hate?

Now that is a great subtitle for the game. If EA ever does a reprint they should at that.

[Ryazan]

People always like to force their opinions down your throat, especially on the internet. Even if they dislike the subject in question, it's like some kind of sick gratification. Just ignore them. Although, if you have a fair, constructive complaint you have a right to post and discuss it and we should encourage people to do so.

[Caralampio]

I agree that meaningless hate threads are bad, but people that don't like the game are entitled to say why they don't like it. Just because you say the game is fine doesn't make it so for those of us who don't like it.

And I don't share your optimism that DA3 will bring back some good stuff from DAO. From my experience with the gaming industry, once they change something they don't backtrack. They'll try to come with some even newer idea to justify their salary, but will never return, for example, to anything near the combat system of DAO.

So in that sense, our complaining is useless. But it feels good to vent it out, and share notes with others who feel the same. It's a therapeutic thing. 

Modifié par Caralampio, 01 avril 2011 - 12:11 .

[Darkhour]

matttco wrote...

Dragon Age 2: Can we please stop all the hate?

No.

Haters gotta hate.

[DomiiMai]

I agree with OP.

[gonzalovm]

Darkhour wrote...

matttco wrote...

Dragon Age 2: Can we please stop all the hate?

No.

Haters gotta hate.

this

[ItsToofy]

Short answer: no

Long answer: Hell no

[TJSolo]

DomiiMai wrote...

I agree with OP.

Good! So you will not go making any "hate" threads.
If only there was a way to force others to do the same...let's revoke the First Amendment and the equivalent laws foriegn countries.

[ItsToofy]

TJSolo wrote...

DomiiMai wrote...

I agree with OP.

Good! So you will not go making any "hate" threads.
If only there was a way to force others to do the same...let's revoke the First Amendment and the equivalent laws foriegn countries.

Sure, let's revoke freedom cause it doesn't fit in with your opinions and ideawaitaminute...I didn't know Ghadaffi posted on these forums!

[DomiiMai]

I don't hate haters and I don't make any "hate" threads.
I support Bioware.

Accept it, and get rid of the hate.
So instead of targeting my qoutes, why don't you just target your head with a gun?
So the world would be one less provoking kind of people. <3
What I said wasn't out of hate, it was just merely a suggestion.

Modifié par DomiiMai, 01 avril 2011 - 12:20 .

[RuinerGaming]

I agree, it has gone on long enough.

Stop the hating and let's get some constructive threads going again

[Boiny Bunny]

TC, you must realise that within your own post here, you have expressed an opinion of your own:

That the game is not horrible.

Many people think that it is horrible. Their opinions are just as valid as yours.

Whilst this board certainly does not need threads about 'firing Bioware staff' or death threats etc. as you mentioned above, it is perfectly reasonable for somebody who feels this game is horrible to express their opinion.

[ItsToofy]

Not allowed to voice our disapproval en masse? Egypt would like to have a word....

[TJSolo]

ItsToofy wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

DomiiMai wrote...

I agree with OP.

Good! So you will not go making any "hate" threads.
If only there was a way to force others to do the same...let's revoke the First Amendment and the equivalent laws foriegn countries.

Sure, let's revoke freedom cause it doesn't fit in with your opinions and ideawaitaminute...I didn't know Ghadaffi posted on these forums!

If I am to be branded a political sociopath, I want to be this guy.

Modifié par TJSolo, 01 avril 2011 - 12:24 .

[Rhjh20]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

TC, you must realise that within your own post here, you have expressed an opinion of your own:

That the game is not horrible.

Many people think that it is horrible. Their opinions are just as valid as yours.

Whilst this board certainly does not need threads about 'firing Bioware staff' or death threats etc. as you mentioned above, it is perfectly reasonable for somebody who feels this game is horrible to express their opinion.

this

[Elanareon]

You got your Action game, we only had half of an RPG...

[fall_ark]

TJSolo wrote...

DomiiMai wrote...

I agree with OP.

Good! So you will not go making any "hate" threads.
If only there was a way to force others to do the same...let's revoke the First Amendment and the equivalent laws foriegn countries.

We can make hate threads about hate threads and hate the hate so the haters will now have their own haters and see that hatred only breeds hatred. Sounds like a plan to me. Or you could just ignore all hate threads and let them vent. I don't know.

[darlarosa]

I completely and utterly agree.

Most people seem to not be able to articulate reasonable thoughts on forums. They never want to actually have a discussion they just want to rage. I actually have a theory the topic they rage about is never the real source of anger, but just a front/excuse for it.

I enjoyed both DA:II and DA:O in diffrent ways. I think most people approached the game expecting the same thing, and not understanding how the game would be similar to ME:2 in order to give it a more immediate sense of action. For instance none of my friends played ME, so I was the only one who really knew exactly what to expect.

Once people played the game they felt diffrent feelings. I am one of the people who liked the game, but I do know that there are some flaws. Bioware made some...questionable choices in the eyes of those who loved and hated the game. However that happens with most games the diffrence is that the gamers who played DA:O were expecting a more classical RPG and were disappointed that it was not EXACTLY what they wanted. These are complaints I have heard:

"Companions sucked outside of Varric and Isabella."
You can honestly say the same thing about DA:O. The characters were less clean cut and less like the cookie cutter companions you find in Bioware games. Let's face it Bioware typically has a pattern of having The Shrew, The Bi-sexual, the berserker, etc. Da:II did not necessarily follow that pattern. And...its a matter of what sort of person you like. I disliked Sten in DA:O because he was personalityless to me, I disliked Merril because she was an idiot in my opinion. It's a relative

"The Inventory"
....Also relative. I perfer DA:O but my bro perfers DA:II. He finds it more organized. I find it complicated. As I said Relative.

"the Game play"
ALSO frakkin relative. Both DA:O and DA:II are good in some ways and bad in others. It all depends on how you prefer to play. What is annoying is pc gamers complaining that the game is too console centric which is essentially a" big screw the console gamers because they can't afford/don't have access to a good pc" and console gamers who...ya know...like consoles...strange huh? DA:II requires less strategy than DA:O, but the game only lack strategy if you approach the game that way. DA:O was waaay too slow in it's own way. For me it was good because I enjoy being OVERLY prepared, but for many people they want to be brought into the action immediately.

RPG Elements???
What does this REALLY even mean. Nothing...all rpg's play somewhat differently. DA:II's story was actually pretty good, my only gripe is that it felt limited when compared to DA:O. I understand its streamlined, but still. I never felt like Hawke had any sort of power, but perhaps that is the point. Perhaps Hawke is nothing more than a man/woman tossed into exceptional circumstances not by skill, but by a simple need to survive or he/she is pushed by others. Still I would have liked it if Hawke's choices had more of an impact, or if my choices in the first game had more of an impact. There are numerous story things I wished could have happened(like my mage Hawke having the option to live right outside of kirkwall away from templars )

Summary the games are similar and yet completely different, thus many players were disappointed and yet many enjoyed themselves. Solution post HELPFUL critique and stop acting like a git like matttco said.

But it seems we all agree on one thing....the repetitive dungeons get annoying, lol, but thats an issue in both games (I'm looking at you Deep Roads)

[Mantaal]

What hate? I just see alot Critic on DA2. And thats not a big surprice after all.

Only blind Fanatics can say "hoorrraayy!" to re used maps and Childisch Combat.

[Freeway911]

I have problems with DA2 but it is still a decent game. Don't hate BW for it but do blame EA for lack of time or budget which I think is the cause of the issues with the game. I have actually stopped coming to the forum as much because I am officially over all the complaint threads out there. Since all they do is repeat the things people have already said so many times.

People also seem to have problems with those of us that aren't totally happy with the game but aren't ready to burn down BW/EA corporate office. So we get it from both sides. "If you don't totally hate DA2 and BW then you are WRONG " "if you don't think DA2 is best game ever and BW/EA are total masters of game making then you are WRONG" I am also over that mentality.

[Boiny Bunny]

@darlarosa:

Plenty of people here have been articulating the aspects of the game that they find to be dissapointing in a perfectly rational manner. There are certainly some that are just blindly ranting certainly, and an equal number of 'lovers' who get furious at the 'haters' and act just as immaturely.

You can write whatever you like, and analyse the game from whatever angle you want to, but understand that every single thing you write (or just wrote above) is your opinion - nothing more.

There is no way to logically rationalise that that characters in DA2 are ultimately superior or inferior to DA:O. That is not quantifiable - it is subjective. What we CAN quantify in that regard, which is a minor gripe I have with the game - is that there are an extremely limiter NUMBER of conversations with each companion in DA2 compared to DA:O. That is a fact, there is no element of subjectivity therein. That doesn't necessarily imply anything about them being more shallow however.

I'm glad that you were able to post your opinion above, it warrants some thought, as most opinions do. But please stop trying to make it sound like your opinions amount to facts.

What do 'RPG Elements' actually mean? Different things to different people - that's all.

[darlarosa]

Mantaal wrote...

What hate? I just see alot Critic on DA2. And thats not a big surprice after all.

Only blind Fanatics can say "hoorrraayy!" to re used maps and Childisch Combat.

Why is the combat childish?
And the re-using maps kinda happened in DA:O too. I will say that it is REALLY overdone in DA:O. Yet if you play through DA:O they have basically the same stuff just more of it and in slightly diffrent places (Deep Roads, The Tower, The Fade). 

And re-reading my previous post, to clarify those were just my opinions and all of that is a relative. Trying to show what is good to me is diffrent from what Sally, Mary, Jeff and Jakeem find good. Particularly the character comment. Truthfully all characters can becalled sucky because not all people will like them just as all people can be sucky because not all people like them...yes that doesn't make sense 

I was not trying to sound factual in anyway. Just griped and groaned about my opinion, and tried to point out that my opinion is a relative as yours is. It's all perception really, in the end its all the same we just see diffrent things. 
And honestly my statment about the lack of rational discussion is, of coarse, biased towards my bad experiances.

Modifié par darlarosa, 01 avril 2011 - 12:47 .

[the_one_54321]

matttco wrote...
They don't owe any of you anything,

Every producer is beholden to the consumer of said product. The money comes from somewhere.

Other than that...

matttco wrote...
they made a choice to go in a different direction, and while you have every
right to call them out on some of those choices, the hate and mean-spiritedness
towards them is insane.

Yes, I have every right to criticize, but being a [phallus] is being a [phallus]. Even if what you say is right, you're still a [phallus]. That much I am with you on.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 01 avril 2011 - 12:47 .