86 réponses à ce sujet

[James2912]

Estelindis wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Not to derail the thread but I posted the following on another thread (where it was promptly burried by two guys arguing) and to me this seems reasonable.

Just throwing this one out there. I liked the VS have saves with both and while the VS not being in Arrival wasn't a deal breaker it was a missed opportunity (IMO) and in a way I can understand peoples concerns. With ME:2 they rewrote Liara's character, it makes sense from a story perspective, but it was still changed. Had they included the VS we would have some indication of which direction the writers were taking them and people could voice concerns or praise. As it currently stands we have no idea and complaining after ME:3 is already out is pointless.

Hey, I thought this was reasonable when you posted it in that other thread.  Sadly, I guess sensible posts are often less likely to provoke responses!  People just like to be outraged sometimes, I think.

Anyway, I don't think that having the VS arrest Shepard (or try to do so) would particularly endear them to the fanbase, especially since many (not including myself) view them as traitors after Horizon.  But, honestly, I don't think that this should be Bioware's main concern.  The central question should be whether or not it's in-character for them to do this.  And I don't think it is.  Ashley and Kaidan wouldn't trust or support Cerberus, but that doesn't mean they're going to try to hinder Shepard or his/her mission.  They witnessed the Reaper threat for themselves and they know what's at stake.

Hmm but they have already shown they will choose the Alliance over Shep on Horizon...  And if on top of working for Cerberus they were told that you had kill 300,000 Batarians for Cerberus they might just be willing to take you down, thinking you've gone nuts. Also Ashley especially is the good soldier and if she was ordered, I'm not sure she would violate her orders.

[IBPROFEN]

Want be much of a trial. Shepard, didn't get to do a full investigation and get proof of why he/she destroyed a relay or galaxy. Cause we already know council needs proof or all shepard will get from them is "we have dismissed those claims". As for Earth i would think that courts(even in game) that he/she needs proof for his actions.

this is what I said in that other post about trial.
to add to this is that this so-called trial will never happen for the fact as stated above.

[Dave666]

Estelindis wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Not to derail the thread but I posted the following on another thread (where it was promptly burried by two guys arguing) and to me this seems reasonable.

Just throwing this one out there. I liked the VS have saves with both and while the VS not being in Arrival wasn't a deal breaker it was a missed opportunity (IMO) and in a way I can understand peoples concerns. With ME:2 they rewrote Liara's character, it makes sense from a story perspective, but it was still changed. Had they included the VS we would have some indication of which direction the writers were taking them and people could voice concerns or praise. As it currently stands we have no idea and complaining after ME:3 is already out is pointless.

Hey, I thought this was reasonable when you posted it in that other thread.  Sadly, I guess sensible posts are often less likely to provoke responses!  People just like to be outraged sometimes, I think.

Anyway, I don't think that having the VS arrest Shepard (or try to do so) would particularly endear them to the fanbase, especially since many (not including myself) view them as traitors after Horizon.  But, honestly, I don't think that this should be Bioware's main concern.  The central question should be whether or not it's in-character for them to do this.  And I don't think it is.  Ashley and Kaidan wouldn't trust or support Cerberus, but that doesn't mean they're going to try to hinder Shepard or his/her mission.  They witnessed the Reaper threat for themselves and they know what's at stake.

Now theres the question though isn't it?  Both VS are Marines to the core, professionals and all that and lets face it if Hacket or Anderson ordered them to bring him in, would it be out of character?  I could see them choosing to talk first (especially Kaiden) rather than come in swinging, but i can't say that the scenario is out of character for either really.  One could also argue that the VS would believe Shep to be innocent and expect them to be acquitted.

p.s. Thanks by the way, as I said it got burried very quickly and to be honest I thought I worded that rather well. 

[James2912]

Once again this thread is all speculation. No one knows what will happen... except bioware

[Raya Aroukii]

James2912 wrote...

Raya Aroukii wrote...

Oh, yeah. Let's have some people's LI arrest them...

It would make your relationship more meaningful then the others. hell it would make for an emotional rollercoaster especially if the VS ended up breaking you out!

Also if your LI is the VS and the renegade option is implemented it could push you over the edge and make you full of rage! 

Except, it'd probably be an "Et tu, Brute?" moment for Shepard, to have even the person they loved to turn against him or her.  I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't still date someone, who tried to arrest me.

[omgodzilla]

If I get to kill Ashley and a whole **** ton of N7 marines then hell yes! I totally want this.

[DingoEffect]

Can someone run by me what VS stands for again?

[thatguy212]

DingoEffect wrote...

Can someone run by me what VS stands for again?

Virmire Survivor

[xzxzxz701]

DingoEffect wrote...

Can someone run by me what VS stands for again?

Veggie sticks.


Now really, it means Virmire survivor.

[DingoEffect]

Am I missing something or is the VS just speculation?

[KotOREffecT]

omgodzilla wrote...

If I get to kill Ashley and a whole **** ton of N7 marines then hell yes! I totally want this.

For Horizon! *Unloads SMG Locust*

[Dave666]

DingoEffect wrote...

Am I missing something or is the VS just speculation?

The whole VS brings in Shep thing is pure speculation.  The VS having plot relevance is also speculation, though not without reason.

[Estelindis]

James2912 wrote...

Hmm but they have already shown they will choose the Alliance over Shep on Horizon...  And if on top of working for Cerberus they were told that you had kill 300,000 Batarians for Cerberus they might just be willing to take you down, thinking you've gone nuts. Also Ashley especially is the good soldier and if she was ordered, I'm not sure she would violate her orders.

They choose the Alliance over Cerberus, not over Shepard.  The conversation on Horizon - and, if applicable, email thereafter - should make it clear that the VS respects and cares for Shepard but just cannot trust Cerberus.  As for following Alliance orders to bring Shepard in, that might make
sense if Hackett or Anderson ordered it.  But I rather got the
impression that both admirals were supportive of Shepard.  It makes even
less sense if Shepard already promised Hackett to turn herself/himself
in peacefully.

Hmm, I guess this addresses most of the post below as well...

Dave666 wrote...

Now theres the question though isn't it?
 Both VS are Marines to the core, professionals and all that and lets
face it if Hacket or Anderson ordered them to bring him in, would it be
out of character?  I could see them choosing to talk first (especially
Kaiden) rather than come in swinging, but i can't say that the scenario
is out of character for either really.  One could also argue that the VS
would believe Shep to be innocent and expect them to be acquitted.

Indeed.  Maybe Ashley/Kaidan would even testify on Shepard's behalf.  But I would like them to make an appearance at the trial - unless that would get in the way of something more awesome that Bioware has planned for them.

Dave666 wrote...
p.s. Thanks by the way, as I said it got burried very quickly and to be honest I thought I worded that rather well. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

No problem!  I agree. 

[Ferginator]

I could see the VS as a witness to the trial saying how she is working with Cerberus and is doing reckless things. Possibly making Shep look bad but could as be the opposite reaction. Instead if you have high paragon they introduce a new paragon/renegade option like how ME2 introduced the actions ability to do those quick left and right triggers. maybe they have the same but with something none communicative to do facial expressions to convince the other person to do something. Like if Ash is about to say something bad at shep, shep does a head shake indicating "please dont do this" or an angry face that can be renegade meaning "you ****"

LOL just an idea

Modifié par Ferginator, 01 avril 2011 - 02:03 .

[Dave666]

Estelindis wrote...

But I rather got the
impression that both admirals were supportive of Shepard.  It makes even
less sense if Shepard already promised Hackett to turn herself/himself
in peacefully.

Just a small point on this and you could certainly be right and I more or less expect it, however something that I noticed in Arrival that I've not seen mentioned anywhere yet (it may have been I just haven't seen it) is that the writers gave Hacket plausible deniability when Hacket gave Shep back the Report...

I'm certainly not saying that this must mean that Hacket will be responsible for bringing you in though.  Another thing to consider is that there was already pressure to bring Shep in and Hacket was blocking it, however after Arrival, I'm not sure how much he can still block if the powers that be demand it.  Hacket is an Admiral of the Fifth Fleet, an influential and important post to be sure, but if the top brass demand Shep is brought in, what can Hacket do?  At that point it would make sense for him to send the VS because there's less chance of it turning violent.

[Ferginator]

Also isnt Shepard have immunity because he is a Spectre and if in ME2 you get your Spectre statues back then you should be immune to trial. Unless they revoke your spectre statues. Possiblity to the turian councilor even with the reaper invasion he probably will say you are rechless and killing 300,000+ batarians to stop the reapers he will see you as insaine and could revoke it then you would be able to be taken to trial. Maybe renegade you avoid the trial and act as a renegade spectre like saren. And do things the hard way.

[Ferginator]

Better yet, Shep was with the VS to go to earth and that scene from the debute trailer was his like "yup im off the hook now"

[Dave666]

Ferginator wrote...

I could see the VS as a witness to the trial saying how she is working with Cerberus and is doing reckless things. Possibly making Shep look bad but could as be the opposite reaction. Instead if you have high paragon they introduce a new paragon/renegade option like how ME2 introduced the actions ability to do those quick left and right triggers. maybe they have the same but with something none communicative to do facial expressions to convince the other person to do something. Like if Ash is about to say something bad at shep, shep does a head shake indicating "please dont do this" or an angry face that can be renegade meaning "you ****"

LOL just an idea

A much simpler and logical way could be to simply have your choices made during ME:1 and ME:2 be reflected upon (serves as a recap) and if you have say kept the base then that could be used as evidence against you as it shows you willingly working with a terrorist organization etc.  It could simply be a tally system, marking off what you did and it being weighed against you.

[Dave666]

Ferginator wrote...

Better yet, Shep was with the VS to go to earth and that scene from the debute trailer was his like "yup im off the hook now"

That made me laugh, thank you. 

As to your other point about Shep potentially being a Spectre..

There are many ways that Spectre status could be removed.  (Or more simply put: "The power of plot compels you! The power of plot compels you!" lol

[Estelindis]

Dave666 wrote...

Just a small point on this and you could certainly be right and I more or less expect it, however something that I noticed in Arrival that I've not seen mentioned anywhere yet (it may have been I just haven't seen it) is that the writers gave Hacket plausible deniability when Hacket gave Shep back the Report...

Never thought of that!  Of course it's important to have deniability, but Hackett doesn't strike me as the kind of person to use it unless in extreme need.  He seems like a straight-talking man with considerable integrity.  Not above a bit of dirty work to get the job done (as we see from the special renegade mission in ME1), but has good aims and tries to do the best he can with what he has.

Dave666 wrote...

Another thing to consider is that there was already pressure to bring Shep in and Hacket was blocking it, however after Arrival, I'm not sure how much he can still block if the powers that be demand it. 

You know, I was considering Hackett's LotSB dossier after Arrival and a thought occurred to me: from an Alliance point of view, could the tragic deaths of 300,000 batarians have been prevented if only Major Antella had been permitted to take Shepard in? Will Hackett end up taking a fall as well as Shepard, as a consequence of denying the major's request?  (Of course, this is assuming they don't believe the Reaper threat was real.  If it was, then the whole system was doomed no matter what Shepard did.)

Dave666 wrote...

Hacket is an Admiral of the Fifth Fleet, an influential and important post to be sure, but if the top brass demand Shep is brought in, what can Hacket do?  At that point it would make sense for him to send the VS because there's less chance of it turning violent.

Less chance if Shepard still cares about the VS.    But some folks' Shepards seem to despise Kaidan / Ashley because of Horizon.  An unfortunate side effect of getting almost no chance to roleplay the response to Horizon is that the game essentially doesn't know how each Shepard feels about the VS.  Depending on the Shepard, sending the VS might be the worst thing that Hackett could possibly do.

Modifié par Estelindis, 01 avril 2011 - 02:43 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Estelindis wrote...
Less chance if Shepard still cares about the VS.    But some folks' Shepards seem to despise Kaidan / Ashley because of Horizon.  An unfortunate side effect of getting almost no chance to roleplay the response to Horizon is that the game essentially doesn't know how each Shepard feels about the VS.  Depending on the Shepard, sending the VS might be the worst thing that Hackett could possibly do.

Which is, from a metagaming perspective, the whole purpose of doing so: emotional engagement. From an in-universe perspective: who else is qualified and willing to go after Shepard?

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 01 avril 2011 - 02:35 .

[Dave666]

Estelindis wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Just a small point on this and you could certainly be right and I more or less expect it, however something that I noticed in Arrival that I've not seen mentioned anywhere yet (it may have been I just haven't seen it) is that the writers gave Hacket plausible deniability when Hacket gave Shep back the Report...

Never thought of that!  Of course it's important to have deniability, but Hackett doesn't strike me as the kind of person to use it unless in extreme need.  He seems like a straight-talking man with considerable integrity.  Not above a bit of dirty work to get the job done (as we see from the special renegade mission in ME1), but has good aims and tries to do the best he can with what he has.

Dave666 wrote...

Another thing to consider is that there was already pressure to bring Shep in and Hacket was blocking it, however after Arrival, I'm not sure how much he can still block if the powers that be demand it. 

You know, I was considering Hackett's LotSB dossier after Arrival and a thought occurred to me: from an Alliance point of view, could the tragic deaths of 300,000 batarians have been prevented if only Major Antella had been permitted to take Shepard in? Will Hackett end up taking a fall as well as Shepard, as a consequence od denying the major's request?  (Of course, this is assuming they don't believe the Reaper threat was real.  If it was, then the whole system was doomed no matter what Shepard did.)

Dave666 wrote...

Hacket is an Admiral of the Fifth Fleet, an influential and important post to be sure, but if the top brass demand Shep is brought in, what can Hacket do?  At that point it would make sense for him to send the VS because there's less chance of it turning violent.

Less chance if Shepard still cares about the VS.    But some folks' Shepards seem to despise Kaidan / Ashley because of Horizon.  An unfortunate side effect of getting almost no chance to roleplay the response to Horizon is that the game essentially doesn't know how each Shepard feels about the VS.  Depending on the Shepard, sending the VS might be the worst thing that Hackett could possibly do.

I know what you mean, we all roleplay our Sheps differently but for me I always keep in my mind first and foremost that Shep is a Millitary Man/Woman and as such would show a certain level of professionalism. I just don't get these people who want to destroy the Alliance etc, like an above post about killing a bunch of N7's...er...Shep used to be one...There is no way that they would deliberately go on a killing spree. Fellow officers, mutual respect to a comrade at arms and all that. Not unless Project Lazarus went seriously wrong of course. 

Modifié par Dave666, 01 avril 2011 - 02:41 .

[Estelindis]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Which is, from a metagaming perspective, the whole purpose of doing so: emotional engagement. From an in-universe perspective: who else is qualified and willing to go after Shepard?

You raise some fair and excellent points.  Agreed: the moment could be very emotionally stirring in any number of ways. 

Dave666 wrote...

I know what you mean, we all roleplay out Sheps differently but for me I always keep in my mind first and foremost that Shep is a Millitary Man/Woman and as such would show a certain level of professionalism. I just don't get these people who want to destroy the Alliance etc, like an above post about killing a bunch of N7's...er...Shep used to be one...There is no way that they would deliberately go on a killing spree. Fellow officers, mutual respect to a comrade at arms and all that. Not unless Project Lazarus went seriously wrong of course.

I feel the same way - but, honestly, there are many times when renegade Shepard seems to be a jerk just for the sake of it, not because it leads to a better mission outcome.  Some Shepards would do what you describe... and a thousand other counter-productive things... and still, somehow, manage to save the galaxy at the end.  It boggles my mind.

Modifié par Estelindis, 01 avril 2011 - 02:41 .

[Made Nightwing]

KotOREffecT wrote...

omgodzilla wrote...

If I get to kill Ashley and a whole **** ton of N7 marines then hell yes! I totally want this.

For Horizon! *Unloads SMG Locust*

Doubt it. N7's are meant to be what happened when the British and Aussie SAS, Delta Force, SEALs, Green Berets, Spetznatz and a whole ****load of other elite Spec Ops units got folded into one. They are the best of the best of the crazy brave and foolishly tough. Men and women who laugh at pain and sneer at death, who train constantly, are equipped with the best gear and are sharp enough to cut through legions of pirates and slavers.
 
Even if Shepard's the best, if a whole squad went after him, he'd eventually get taken down. And since the Special Forces community was, is and will continue to be, a tight knit group of professionals, the odds are that Shepard would know some of them. Would have trained alongside them and endured so many hardships together that they would be more close than family. Would you be able to kill men like that? Men who held themselves to the highest standards of professional skill and personal conduct?

[eye basher]

You know what i would've like to do with the vs leave them both on virmire they are extra grunts in ME they compose nothing to the story you could kill them both off and the story would move on like nothing happened.