86 réponses à ce sujet

[James2912]

Dave666 wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

But I rather got the
impression that both admirals were supportive of Shepard.  It makes even
less sense if Shepard already promised Hackett to turn herself/himself
in peacefully.

Just a small point on this and you could certainly be right and I more or less expect it, however something that I noticed in Arrival that I've not seen mentioned anywhere yet (it may have been I just haven't seen it) is that the writers gave Hacket plausible deniability when Hacket gave Shep back the Report...

I'm certainly not saying that this must mean that Hacket will be responsible for bringing you in though.  Another thing to consider is that there was already pressure to bring Shep in and Hacket was blocking it, however after Arrival, I'm not sure how much he can still block if the powers that be demand it.  Hacket is an Admiral of the Fifth Fleet, an influential and important post to be sure, but if the top brass demand Shep is brought in, what can Hacket do?  At that point it would make sense for him to send the VS because there's less chance of it turning violent.

Dave you just gave a brilliant explanation hat off to ya!

[James2912]

Dave666 wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Just a small point on this and you could certainly be right and I more or less expect it, however something that I noticed in Arrival that I've not seen mentioned anywhere yet (it may have been I just haven't seen it) is that the writers gave Hacket plausible deniability when Hacket gave Shep back the Report...

Never thought of that!  Of course it's important to have deniability, but Hackett doesn't strike me as the kind of person to use it unless in extreme need.  He seems like a straight-talking man with considerable integrity.  Not above a bit of dirty work to get the job done (as we see from the special renegade mission in ME1), but has good aims and tries to do the best he can with what he has.

Dave666 wrote...

Another thing to consider is that there was already pressure to bring Shep in and Hacket was blocking it, however after Arrival, I'm not sure how much he can still block if the powers that be demand it. 

You know, I was considering Hackett's LotSB dossier after Arrival and a thought occurred to me: from an Alliance point of view, could the tragic deaths of 300,000 batarians have been prevented if only Major Antella had been permitted to take Shepard in? Will Hackett end up taking a fall as well as Shepard, as a consequence od denying the major's request?  (Of course, this is assuming they don't believe the Reaper threat was real.  If it was, then the whole system was doomed no matter what Shepard did.)

Dave666 wrote...

Hacket is an Admiral of the Fifth Fleet, an influential and important post to be sure, but if the top brass demand Shep is brought in, what can Hacket do?  At that point it would make sense for him to send the VS because there's less chance of it turning violent.

Less chance if Shepard still cares about the VS.    But some folks' Shepards seem to despise Kaidan / Ashley because of Horizon.  An unfortunate side effect of getting almost no chance to roleplay the response to Horizon is that the game essentially doesn't know how each Shepard feels about the VS.  Depending on the Shepard, sending the VS might be the worst thing that Hackett could possibly do.

I know what you mean, we all roleplay our Sheps differently but for me I always keep in my mind first and foremost that Shep is a Millitary Man/Woman and as such would show a certain level of professionalism. I just don't get these people who want to destroy the Alliance etc, like an above post about killing a bunch of N7's...er...Shep used to be one...There is no way that they would deliberately go on a killing spree. Fellow officers, mutual respect to a comrade at arms and all that. Not unless Project Lazarus went seriously wrong of course. 

Once again I completely agree!

[Estelindis]

eye basher wrote...

You know what i would've like to do with the vs leave them both on virmire they are extra grunts in ME they compose nothing to the story you could kill them both off and the story would move on like nothing happened.

Not so.    As squadmates, each fulfils a combat role that no-one else does (full combat and biotics/tech).  Plotwise, they are two contrasting faces of humanity in general and the Systems Alliance in particular.  In ME2, the whole Horizon plotline would have worked out differently without Ashley or Kaidan (as TIM manipulates the situation with them there in order to draw in the Collectors).  Bear in mind that much of Shepard's old human crew either died or left the Alliance, so it's likely that the VS was the only high-ranking operative from the SR1 still loyal to the Alliance.  Of course, Bioware could have introduced a totally new character to fill their role on Horizon, but why do that when they are available and Shepard already has a link to them?  In particular, no one else still in the Alliance had witnessed the Reaper threat as they had.  And, of course, if they are your Shepard's love interest then they see a side of him or her that no-one else does, witnessing rare moments of vulnerability, uncertainty, and tenderness in our hero.

Of course, not everyone likes them, and that's just fine.  But to say that they're just extra grunts and ME1 and 2 would be no different if they'd both died on Virmire is simply inaccurate.

[Dave666]

Thank you kindly James.

[Ferginator]

Judge/Councilor: "Shepard, for the crimes of genocide that resulted in 300,000 bartarians dead, being affiliated with Cerberus, a terrorist group, and destroying a mass relay we find you guilty and revoke your spect..."
[Big explosion and reapers coming in attacking]
Judge/Councilor: "What the hell are those things? Reaper"
Shepard "Ah, yes. 'Reapers.' The immortal race of sentient starships, allegedly waiting in dark space. We have dismissed that claim. I guess im off the hook now ****ES!!!"

Modifié par Ferginator, 01 avril 2011 - 03:40 .

[V-rex]

Wow, it's nice to see this thread wasn't so completetly spammed by hate posts. It's funny though really, most of the haters lashing out against the VS fanbase seem to be acting far more immature, rude, aggressive and condescending then any of the actual 'fanboys' that they are opposing.
Just like how it is everywhere else in the world.

I mean don't get me wrong, I do think my people need to be able to get over the past and look forward to the future in a more mature way and stop dwelling on the negative things about the past and alienating ourselves from everyone else... it just shocks me how people can be made so aggressive and angry towards us for basically being mad that our favorite character didn't get the same treatment as the rest.
If we'd just had a beter cameo appearance, or maybe the character actually had presence within the story more than just dropping out of existence. I doubt we'd be so bitter now.

I know people would argue that we are just complaining and not letting Bioware do what they want with 'their' story. But still back in 2007 it was made clear in 'their' story that Tali would never be able to have a physical relationship with a human because her immune system is so weak that leaving her suit would kill her instantly.
Enough people rallied together and made demands and now suddenly Bioware created a Deus Ex Machna that allowed Tali to magically become boinkable. Pleasing millions of fans worldwide and partially mucking up canon in the process.
I don't really see how us wishing to see our favorite character be given slightly better treatment then just one angry cameo and then vanishing out of this plain of existence qualifies as demanding too much. Or being entitled brats.

Okay, anyway.... first of all OP, I know you and I have had our differences in the past (largely in relation to Quarian/Geth arguments) but I still want to give you a nod of respect here for making this post. Glad to see someone out there is still on the side of the VS fans.

Second up, I also support the idea of a trial and having Ashley (in my case) standing up to either defend or condemn Shepard. But truth be told I'd rather see her be defending Shepard, I'd rather Shepard be captured by some third party and Ashley be alongside Anderson trying to defend his case.
If we can involve a 'prison break aided by Ashley' sequence in there somewhere, I'd like that. It would be a great way to create an opening combat tutorial for one thing, and seeing Ashley actually help you escape might do something to help dampen the ugly hate cloud that's been present since Horizon.

Plus if her role is something like being the 'Shepard' to Shepard's 'Saren' like someone else said, that's something I could get behind... as long as later in the game she begins to question her loyalties as her feelings for Shepard resurface after having been dormant for so long, in addition to the looming Reaper threat coming closer and closer.
Culminating in a scene where she bravely sides with Shepard and helps him out in a huge major way, risking her own life and career in order to finally do what she believes is right.

A little cliche yes, but it still works in the confines of a story nonetheless. Not sure if it's the best story arc but it seems like it could be a likely one.

Anyway, of course, this is all speculation. Unlike what the haters will no doubt say, I am not 'demanding' this happen out of a 'deluded sense of self entitlement'. This is just something I would like to see happen for one of my favorite characters and I am speculating accordingly.
That's it.

[IBPROFEN]

Ferginator wrote...

Judge/Councilor: "Shepard, for the crimes of genocide that resulted in 300,000 bartarians dead, being affiliated with Cerberus, a terrorist group, and destroying a mass relay we find you guilty and revoke your spect..."
[Big explosion and reapers coming in attacking]
Judge/Councilor: "What the hell are those things? Reaper"
Shepard "Ah, yes. 'Reapers.' The immortal race of sentient starships, allegedly waiting in dark space. We have dismissed that claim. I guess im off the hook now ****ES!!!"

  Your opening line is wrong about 300k batarians, codex says known is 90k batarians, 210k unsure(more than likely slaves,prisoners). as I said  before in another thread, 300k beings I agree not 300k batarians.
 Also tht big explosion, reapers attacking, should be wrong too. If you listen to Big Ben Sniper(ME3 trailer), He's hoping Shepard will make it in time.

Modifié par IBPROFEN, 01 avril 2011 - 04:11 .

[Ferginator]

IBPROFEN wrote...

Ferginator wrote...

Judge/Councilor: "Shepard, for the crimes of genocide that resulted in 300,000 bartarians dead, being affiliated with Cerberus, a terrorist group, and destroying a mass relay we find you guilty and revoke your spect..."
[Big explosion and reapers coming in attacking]
Judge/Councilor: "What the hell are those things? Reaper"
Shepard "Ah, yes. 'Reapers.' The immortal race of sentient starships, allegedly waiting in dark space. We have dismissed that claim. I guess im off the hook now ****ES!!!"

  Your opening line is wrong about 300k batarians, codex says known is 90k batarians, 210k unsure(more than likely slaves,prisoners). as I said  before in another thread, 300k beings I agree not 300k batarians.

Bartarian organicsbfd just a funny line just laugh along with it no need to take serious.

[James2912]

V-rex wrote...

Wow, it's nice to see this thread wasn't so completetly spammed by hate posts. It's funny though really, most of the haters lashing out against the VS fanbase seem to be acting far more immature, rude, aggressive and condescending then any of the actual 'fanboys' that they are opposing.
Just like how it is everywhere else in the world.

I mean don't get me wrong, I do think my people need to be able to get over the past and look forward to the future in a more mature way and stop dwelling on the negative things about the past and alienating ourselves from everyone else... it just shocks me how people can be made so aggressive and angry towards us for basically being mad that our favorite character didn't get the same treatment as the rest.
If we'd just had a beter cameo appearance, or maybe the character actually had presence within the story more than just dropping out of existence. I doubt we'd be so bitter now.

I know people would argue that we are just complaining and not letting Bioware do what they want with 'their' story. But still back in 2007 it was made clear in 'their' story that Tali would never be able to have a physical relationship with a human because her immune system is so weak that leaving her suit would kill her instantly.
Enough people rallied together and made demands and now suddenly Bioware created a Deus Ex Machna that allowed Tali to magically become boinkable. Pleasing millions of fans worldwide and partially mucking up canon in the process.
I don't really see how us wishing to see our favorite character be given slightly better treatment then just one angry cameo and then vanishing out of this plain of existence qualifies as demanding too much. Or being entitled brats.

Okay, anyway.... first of all OP, I know you and I have had our differences in the past (largely in relation to Quarian/Geth arguments) but I still want to give you a nod of respect here for making this post. Glad to see someone out there is still on the side of the VS fans.

Second up, I also support the idea of a trial and having Ashley (in my case) standing up to either defend or condemn Shepard. But truth be told I'd rather see her be defending Shepard, I'd rather Shepard be captured by some third party and Ashley be alongside Anderson trying to defend his case.
If we can involve a 'prison break aided by Ashley' sequence in there somewhere, I'd like that. It would be a great way to create an opening combat tutorial for one thing, and seeing Ashley actually help you escape might do something to help dampen the ugly hate cloud that's been present since Horizon.

Plus if her role is something like being the 'Shepard' to Shepard's 'Saren' like someone else said, that's something I could get behind... as long as later in the game she begins to question her loyalties as her feelings for Shepard resurface after having been dormant for so long, in addition to the looming Reaper threat coming closer and closer.
Culminating in a scene where she bravely sides with Shepard and helps him out in a huge major way, risking her own life and career in order to finally do what she believes is right.

A little cliche yes, but it still works in the confines of a story nonetheless. Not sure if it's the best story arc but it seems like it could be a likely one.

Anyway, of course, this is all speculation. Unlike what the haters will no doubt say, I am not 'demanding' this happen out of a 'deluded sense of self entitlement'. This is just something I would like to see happen for one of my favorite characters and I am speculating accordingly.
That's it.

Thanks a lot V-rex. and I also agree with your post!

[MarqueAZ]

It would be cool if the VS arrested them, only to do so to secretly slip them something to help them escape later (as Hackett pretty much confirms the outcome of the trial is imprisonment to appease the Battarians).

[Badpie]

Clonedzero wrote...

i'm 100% for this.
i'm also for the VS being a character witness at the trial.

I don't think the Ashley or Kaidan would need to hunt down Shepard.  But I like the idea of them testifying.  But forget character witness, they were witness to all of the stuff that Shepard has been trying to prove for years.  Instead of "he's a good guy" they should be able to say "Shepard is write and here is alllll the evidence why."

[jlb524]

I like the VS testifying idea as well. I would like to see ME3 start with the trial where Ashley or Kaidan testify (as well as other past acquaintances) though Ashley or Kaidan's testimony would have more weight given they are Alliance.

Regardless, I think Shepard will be imprisoned and perhaps Ashley/Kaidan will lead the jailbreak efforts (which would then be the prologue/tutorial level for the game) and they will become your first squad mate. Or, this is what I wish for.

Modifié par jlb524, 01 avril 2011 - 05:14 .

[ADLegend21]

I'd prefer isf the VS was only involved in the trail not the arrest because that'd just give tha hters more ammo "Oh I hate you Ashley/Kaidan, you back stabbing B*tch/Bastard" but them either busting you out or testifying to get you acquitted would be the best thing ever.

[Badpie]

@J and AD

All this.

[RPGmom28]

ADLegend21 wrote...

I'd prefer isf the VS was only involved in the trail not the arrest because that'd just give tha hters more ammo "Oh I hate you Ashley/Kaidan, you back stabbing B*tch/Bastard" but them either busting you out or testifying to get you acquitted would be the best thing ever.

I am SO importing my faithful to Kaidan save for ME3 first, just for this purpose.  I hope they let you tweak appearance first, though, because that Shepard is fugly.

[James2912]

So definitely no to my optional renegade interrupt of killing the VS?

[Elite Midget]

James2912 wrote...
Optional idea:
If you choose the Renegade option you kill the VS survivor. 

Than how would you get brought to trial? Also, not all Renegades would want to kill the VS.

When will people understand that Renegade doesn't mean that you're evil?

Modifié par Elite Midget, 01 avril 2011 - 09:45 .

[James2912]

Elite Midget wrote...

James2912 wrote...
Optional idea:
If you choose the Renegade option you kill the VS survivor. 

Than how would you get brought to trial? Also, not all Renegades would want to kill the VS.

When will people understand that Renegade doesn't mean that you're evil?

No it would be a tragic accident! and if they were your LI a real tragedy. It would make renegade shep have less to live for and unleash his righteous rage. yo

[Elite Midget]

So...

You want to have renegades get the short end of the stick compared to the Paragons? Because it sounds like no matter what Shepard gets turned in but Renegades end up killing VS 'accidently' while Paragons get to keep VS alive?

[jbblue05]

Shepard's friend or lover arresting them makes no sense because its too messy and their are better options. If Bioware does this than their just looking for an excuse to give the VS some cameo-time.

If anyone is going to bring Shepard in its a team of N7 marines, STG, or Spectres

[Dave666]

James2912 wrote...

So definitely no to my optional renegade interrupt of killing the VS?

Bad James, Bad! You know we can't kill the VS in the opening scenes (unless you have a Lazarus Project lying around).

*smacks wrist*

[James2912]

Elite Midget wrote...

So...

You want to have renegades get the short end of the stick compared to the Paragons? Because it sounds like no matter what Shepard gets turned in but Renegades end up killing VS 'accidently' while Paragons get to keep VS alive?

Don't worry its an optional part of my idea, I was curious about your guy's opinion I'm not advocating it. 

[johnbonhamatron]

I really like the idea in the OP, because... well, think of the dramatic storyteling potential, no matter whether you like the VS or not.

People who don't get the chance to fight them, and potentially kick their botties. People who do like them get some added drama within the story.

And players who have them as LIs get potentially the best story arc. Think how much sweeter the inevitable reunuion will be, later in the game, after going through hell to get it.

Yup, I likes that idea!

Although not sure about killing them outright, when you can squeeze so much more character interaction out of them for the rest of the game, IF the beginning played out whith them bringing you in.

Modifié par johnbonhamatron, 01 avril 2011 - 10:42 .

[cookmeister]

Bit pointless really since on my Arrival play-through, Shepard basically stated he voluntarily go to Earth to stand trial.

[Nathan Redgrave]

The idea that the VS will be on Earth (probably in your starting squad during an escape from a Reaper invasion, even) is actually fairly likely. I doubt the game will actually have any off-world scenes taking place before the trial, however.