188 réponses à ce sujet

[WingsandRings]

Let me just say: objectively, I think DA:O is a better game.  I think the story is more complex, and I like the characters better, and I think a lot of the plots and storylines are more fun and the choices are more interesting.  I like DA2, a lot, but I think DA:O is better.

However, I think DA2 for me is more replayable.  I hadn't thought about this until I decided to replay DA:O again (played it 3 times so far) so that I could set up the end game/Awakenings/Witch Hunt for exactly the way I wanted it for the next time I played DA2.  And I'm struggling. Because there are just so many parts of DA:O I DREAD, and I play on Xbox, so I can't use mods.  (And in case anyone is  going to accuse me of being an idiot console gamer, I am a poor grad student.  I inherited an Xbox 360 for free, but I cannot afford a computer that can run a Bioware game.  I have had this console for 5 years, and I own 5 games.  4 of them are Bioware games.  So I do not spend buttloads of money on that either.  So there. Just don't go down that road.) 

I dread the Fade.  I dread the Deep Roads.  I dread all those floors of the Werewolf lair.  DA:O had a LOT of really REALLY long periods where you did nothing but level grind with no plot movement at all.  Just hack and slash, hack and slash.  No choices to make, no witty dialogue, not even interesting things to click on.  Just kill the darkspawn, kill the undead, etc.  And some of them you can't break up.  Once you're in the Fade, you're just stuck, for like 2 hours (average amount of time it takes me) and you're not going anywhere or doing ANYTHING except opening doors.

I found when I replayed DA2 that I didn't have that one section or plotline that I dreaded.  There are plots that have overarching pieces throughout an Act, or boss battles that take a really long time, but  there's not that one (or 2 or 3) entire area(s) that you get stuck in and then you just GRIND FOREVER.

I know a lot of people will disagree with me, and say there was a lot of mindless hack and slash, so I will say again: This is just my opinion. I see a lot of reasons people think DA2 isn't as good as DA:O, and I agree, but I did find something in my own play throughs that I thought DA2 actually exceeded DA:O at (for me) so I just wanted to see if anyone else felt this way.

Modifié par WingsandRings, 01 avril 2011 - 12:19 .

[Melca36]

I will have to respectfully disagree.

The Fade and The Deeproads were an embarrassment to this game.

I would have rated DA:2 higher than 7/8 had those areas not been dumbed down for the masses.

[Mavkiel]

I get where your coming from, and that da2 is broken up with more combat, dialog, combat. I just dread fighting one more da2 battle with instant spawning thugs. It kind of ruined playing a mage for me. I either had to always drag all the enemies to a choke point, or just not bother using tactics. (Other then spam every spell I have as fast as I can)

[Pandaman102]

I can see where you're coming from, but (correct me if I'm wrong) your argument seems to boil down to "DA2 has higher replay value because it has shorter grinds".

If that's the case, I have to ask: beyond how you treat your companions and the personality system, what variety is there that adds to replay value? Or to phrase it in another way, if DA:O's maps were as brief as DA2's, what does DA2 have left that would give it higher replay value?

[WingsandRings]

Melca36 wrote...

I will have to respectfully disagree.

The Fade and The Deeproads were an embarrassment to this game.

I would have rated DA:2 higher than 7/8 had those areas not been dumbed down for the masses.

The Fade and Deep Roads were "dumbed down for the masses" because they weren't...long?

That's what I inferred from what you said.  It is very possible I am completely misinterpretting.

[Pariah00]

TBH, if you had talked to me about this when I was half way through my run of DA2 I would have agreed wholeheartedly. There were several areas of DAO that were so plodding it made me hesitate to go through another run, conversely, I found that DA2's short quests and dungeons made me think about subsequent playthroughs without any reservations whatsoever- even if I thought they were still too short.

I started up a new DA2 game, but I just can't get into it. Those short quests- I know their also pointless- fetch this, kill that, with little in-game rewards to motivate me to go through a game that's full the brim of them.

Now, I would start up a game of DAO also dreading the Fade and the Deep Roads but quickly get past that dread because the overall experience was chock-full of depth and quality that simply engrossed me 90% of time despite those few trudges. The reverse seems to be true for me and DA2. 90% of my experience the second time over feels like a chore I have to go through just to get to the few good moments in the game. That's been my realized perspective after trying to have another crack at DA2, anyway- but I understand your premise well.

edit: Btw, I've played DAO 6 times, the overall quality of the experience just keeps me coming back- long dungeons be damned.

Modifié par Pariah00, 01 avril 2011 - 12:37 .

[Freeway911]

WingsandRings wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

I will have to respectfully disagree.

The Fade and The Deeproads were an embarrassment to this game.

I would have rated DA:2 higher than 7/8 had those areas not been dumbed down for the masses.

The Fade and Deep Roads were "dumbed down for the masses" because they weren't...long?

That's what I inferred from what you said.  It is very possible I am completely misinterpretting.

Two complaints I have heard about DAO was the deep roads and the fade being to long. My wife complained everytime she made a run through the fade about how much she hated it. I don't see a problem with either of those parts of the game in DAO

So people complain about those in DAO they get cut back and shortened in DA2, not saying because people complained, and like magic people complain about them being to short.

[haroldhardluck]

Melca36 wrote...
I will have to respectfully disagree.

The Fade and The Deeproads were an embarrassment to this game.

I would have rated DA:2 higher than 7/8 had those areas not been dumbed down for the masses.

The Deep Roads expedition was too short for its significance as the end of act 1. Nathaniel's rescue was also too short but it was an optional quest.

However there was no reason for a long Fade sequence as there was when trying to save the Circle.

So a mixed bag for me.

Harold

[Dragoonlordz]

The only problem I had with DAO was Golly of Amgarpoop, Just because of the whole switching red, blue, purple, pink stuff. I enjoyed the Fade in DAO the whole switching between different forms, I guess because secretly I wanted to play DAO as shapeshifter anyways. The deep roads were a bit bit tedious but not because of the actual deep roads, it was more because you got sent back there so much in quests. So it wasn't about size of area or how long it took to go through it for me personally or even what was in there, just that is was akin to the being repeated bit too much which Bioware solved by giving us vast amounts more repeating areas/maps in DA2. They didn't fix what people might have asked they instead increased what they didn't like for me at least, likewise Mike Laidlaw saying hated seeing screenshots from DAO parties and they all look same as everyone elses screenshots of their parties because everyone was picking the best gear and his resolution to this was make every single party member in DA2 look the same in every single screenshot (imho).

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 01 avril 2011 - 12:58 .

[WingsandRings]

Pariah00 wrote...

TBH, if you had talked to me about this when I was half way through my run of DA2 I would have agreed wholeheartedly. There were several areas of DAO that were so plodding it made me hesitate to go through another run, conversely, I found that DA2's short quests and dungeons made me think about subsequent playthroughs without any reservations whatsoever- even if I thought they were still too short.

I started up a new DA2 game, but I just can't get into it. Those short quests- I know their also pointless- fetch this, kill that, with little in-game rewards to motivate me to go through a game that's full the brim of them.

Now, I would start up a game of DAO also dreading the Fade and the Deep Roads but quickly get past that dread because the overall experience was chock-full of depth and quality that simply engrossed me 90% of time despite those few trudges. The reverse seems to be true for me and DA2. 90% of my experience the second time over feels like a chore I have to go through just to get to the few good moments in the game. That's been my realized perspective after trying to have another crack at DA2, anyway- but I understand your premise well.

edit: Btw, I've played DAO 6 times, the overall quality of the experience just keeps me coming back- long dungeons be damned.

This is a good point, and may be one that will become more salient as I do more play throughs; as I said, I'm only half way through my second play through.  However, I think what it gives me that DA:O didn't was just that sense of completion, of moving forward and making progress.  Call me simple-minded (and I'll kill you, but that's beside the point ), but I am strongly reinforced by just having "Quest Complete" show up, and seeing the amount/status of quests grow and/or change, having another one open up after one is finished, etc.  When I was grinding through the deep roads or the Fade, it's like I never got any feedback or promise that I was getting closer.  It was just "Oh, God, another area just opened up.  Is this the last one? Why is this one taking 40 minutes? Is there anything at the end? THE ONLY THING AT THE END IS ANOTHER AREA?  Arrrrrrrrrrrgh."

[Saboera]

To each their own I guess, I tried to replay it to get some value out of it. I really wanted to enjoy the game, I truly do, but it just seems impossible to me personally.

I just cannot bear to run around Kirkwall anymore, I had trouble going through Kirkwall yet another time in Act 3, the city remains so static that it kills it for me. Such great potential was wasted with Kirkwall, same with the framed narrative. The idea is great but the execution just fell flat on its face.

The sole idea of fighting thugs every street corners again makes me cringe, I even had to take a break in my first playthrough because of how sick I was of them. It was just way too frequent with zero diversity in my opinion. That is what ''grinding'' really is by definition, it's killing the same mobs over and over and over again. I mean, Dragon Age had its share in the Deep Roads but at least there was diversity in the encounters and the approach you had to take towards them.

Those are the 2 big hiccups that prevent me from being able to enjoy myself while replaying it.

The only really tedious part for me in Origins was the Fade beyond the first playthrough because of how linear it was. It was really cool the first time with the transformation mechanics but on the second one, it just felt washed out already.

Ironically I actually loved the deep roads, it simply was the one area that stirred the most emotions out of me. It went on for a long time, yes, but that area just oozed with danger in an intimidating way, thanks to all the lore and mystery behind them. As I went deeper and deeper, I suddenly realize how isolated I was from any sort of civilization and it just amplified that feeling of danger tenfold for me. It felt like I was wandering uncharted territories never knowing what sort of horrors i'd find further in (for the first playthrough at least). Of course for the second playthrough I can see how it gets tiresome but my first time in there was such an amazing experience that I just dwelled in nostalgia for the subsequent ones.

Tho I guess playing Origins on the PC itself was the way to go for the full experience, I could see how it was less enjoyable on consoles with ankward controls amongst other things. I'm glad they fixed it for DA2 or at least tried to but it just feels to me that instead of accomplishing their goal of playing to each platform strength, they just inverted the roles and the PC got the short end of the stick this time around.

Edit: I just wanted to add that frankly, PC gaming = expensive is a pretty tired excuse.

You pay $60 for every brand new games you buy on console and if you use Xbox Live, you basically pay another internet connectivity fee. You can get an average PC made up for around $800 and make use of services like Steam with gigantic deals every week. I got DA2 20% off over at Direct2Drive the first week it came out. Over a longer period of time, PC is actually kinda cheaper if you tend to play a lot of games. Not only that but there is a lot of Free2Play stuff that is actually pretty decent for those who have no money. In any case, you need a computer anyway so why not chug a few hundred more into a decent one?

Modifié par Saboera, 01 avril 2011 - 01:58 .

[Morroian]

WingsandRings wrote...

I dread the Fade.  I dread the Deep Roads.  I dread all those floors of the Werewolf lair.  DA:O had a LOT of really REALLY long periods where you did nothing but level grind with no plot movement at all.  Just hack and slash, hack and slash.  No choices to make, no witty dialogue, not even interesting things to click on.  Just kill the darkspawn, kill the undead, etc.  And some of them you can't break up.  Once you're in the Fade, you're just stuck, for like 2 hours (average amount of time it takes me) and you're not going anywhere or doing ANYTHING except opening doors.

I agree, without the skip the fade mod I wouldn't have made it through the fade more than twice. With DA2 you know you can go into the game and knock over a quest reasonably quickly without the grind of those long quests. The quest structure of DA2 is definitely better IMHO. However I will say that the deep roads section in Act 1 of DA2 was probably a bit short.

[GU1LD3NST3RN]

While DA:O certainly had some mind-numbingly grindy bits (FAAAAAAAAADE!)* I distinctly recall starting up a second playthrough of the game a mere 3 days after finishing it the first time. It's been several weeks since I finished Dragon Age 2, and I have no intent of returning to it for a while yet.

While the game does feel less grind-tastic in a lot of areas (just ignore the cookie cutter environments for the sake of argument here) I feel like Origins is more replayable simply because it makes me *want* to replay it more than DA2. Most of this is due to the different routes character development and story can play out. Hell, I hated Morrigan on my first few times through the game (always disapproving every time I don't kill a hobo for his sandwich) but after my fourth time through and taking a few different options in her romance subplot she's become one of my all-time favorite characters in any game ever made.

I just don't see that happening in DA2. None of the characters were really bad, I didn't think, but you didn't have enough time to interact with them. Maybe you can make a binary choice to influence them here or there but then there's like... a line of dialogue about it and it's done.

In a game franchise that I play for the story and characters, DA:O wins handily.


* just pretend I said that in a William Shatner-esque voice, a-la Wrath of Khan.

[WingsandRings]

Saboera wrote...


Edit: I just wanted to add that frankly, PC gaming = expensive is a pretty tired excuse.

You pay $60 for every brand new games you buy on console and if you use Xbox Live, you basically pay another internet connectivity fee. You can get an average PC made up for around $800 and make use of services like Steam with gigantic deals every week. I got DA2 20% off over at Direct2Drive the first week it came out. Over a longer period of time, PC is actually kinda cheaper if you tend to play a lot of games. Not only that but there is a lot of Free2Play stuff that is actually pretty decent for those who have no money. In any case, you need a computer anyway so why not chug a few hundred more into a decent one?

Did you even read the original post? Does 5 games in 5 years sound like "if you tend to play a lot of games?"  Do the math.  Dropping 800 dollars for 5 games is NOT "cheaper over a longer period of time."

EDIT: I always scream "FAAAAAAAAAAADE" in my Shatner voice too whenever I have to play it.  In fact, the first time I played DA2 and I was about to do the fade quest, I yelled it (not knowing it wasn't going to be a 3 hour grind) and scared the cat.

Modifié par WingsandRings, 01 avril 2011 - 03:25 .

[contown]

I hated the fade too, but I loved the deep roads. The atmosphere and sense of mystery were nice. And it was just plain hard. Alot of bosses, no merchants to let you refill supplies, etc. By the time I was almost done the first time, each party member had at least 1 injury I couldn't fix, and I was out of potions.

Then I had to fight the broodmother. I loved it.

[Leon83]

You got to be kidding me, right....?!??

[ad1dash0lm3s]

I agree, every single main plot quest took way too long for me and I hated the crap out of the main plot quests. I can do "Broken Circle" fast 'cause I have that one memorized pretty much but the others just irritate me with the length.

[WingsandRings]

Leon83 wrote...

You got to be kidding me, right....?!??

Yes. This entire thread is one big long April Fool's joke...JUST FOR YOU.


How did you guess?

[Stuffy38]

*chuckle* You win!

[Cody211282]

I like the Deep Roads, the werewolf lair, and the fade wasn't to bad is you knew how to do it fast. But I do agree they are longer then some people want.

On the other hand I dread having to do any of the side quests on DA2, because I don't want to go into the same cave I have already been into a hundred times, and the thought of having to go after waver after wave of enemy's makes me seriously think about not doing anything but what I have to, hell I started skipping quests in act 3 because of this and I have never done thins in a video game before.

[srieser]

I've tried a second complete play through of DA:0 twice now. I just can't get through Orzymmar. I find it dull and tedious and can never finish it. I have an elf stuck there, a dwarf and a human rogue. I keep telling myself I'll muscle through it but one death forgetting a quick save and I'm done.

I just hit Act 3 of my second time through DA:2 and I'm already planning my rogue run.

[Abispa]

To be honest, I've only completed ALL of the DA:O and it's expansions twice, and have started dozens of games where I start and realize that I'm going to get caught up on some long winding quest that I really don't want to bother with once I start. The Circle is especially painful for me. Except for the parts where it drags, I always thought DA:O was awesome.

However, in just one month I've completed FOUR play through of DA2. The action and dialogue were improved greatly, but the reused maps, programing short cuts, and buggy choice recognition really ticked me off. I would say DA2 was very good, yet disappointing, but as of now I've had more fun with it than I did with the first one.

I kind of look at it like my owning all the collector's editions of "The Lord of the Rings" movies. I happily paid for them and watched them, and consider them classics. But I've only watched them all once. Meanwhile, "Highlander," one of dumbest fantasy movies of all time, I could pick apart all day, is perhaps the most heavily played DVD I own.

Go figure.

Modifié par Abispa, 01 avril 2011 - 04:29 .

[planed scaped]

Skip the Fade
Skip Ostagar
Skip The Deep Roads

= Origins more re-playable. Not to mention the tonne's of other great mods.

[PirateT138]

I disagree, there are different ways to build your characters but that's about the only reason to replay it, everything else goes down the exact same way (almost exactly, at least) and you have little, if any, role to play in changing the events.

Edit: not that it doesn't have some replayability, it's just not as enjoyable.

At least when you get to the end of some of the sections on Origins you can make changes to the world, and the reprecussions of your choices are explained at the end (because Origins had a real end, not a bookmark).

Modifié par PirateT138, 01 avril 2011 - 04:52 .

[WingsandRings]

planed scaped wrote...

Skip the Fade
Skip Ostagar
Skip The Deep Roads

= Origins more re-playable. Not to mention the tonne's of other great mods.

I love it when people don't read original posts.