188 réponses à ce sujet

[WingsandRings]

Abispa wrote...

To be honest, I've only completed ALL of the DA:O and it's expansions twice, and have started dozens of games where I start and realize that I'm going to get caught up on some long winding quest that I really don't want to bother with once I start. The Circle is especially painful for me. Except for the parts where it drags, I always thought DA:O was awesome.

However, in just one month I've completed FOUR play through of DA2. The action and dialogue were improved greatly, but the reused maps, programing short cuts, and buggy choice recognition really ticked me off. I would say DA2 was very good, yet disappointing, but as of now I've had more fun with it than I did with the first one.

I kind of look at it like my owning all the collector's editions of "The Lord of the Rings" movies. I happily paid for them and watched them, and consider them classics. But I've only watched them all once. Meanwhile, "Highlander," one of dumbest fantasy movies of all time, I could pick apart all day, is perhaps the most heavily played DVD I own.

Go figure.

This.  All of it. Except the Highlander part.   Maybe replace it with "Office Space."

[planed scaped]

WingsandRings wrote...

planed scaped wrote...

Skip the Fade
Skip Ostagar
Skip The Deep Roads

= Origins more re-playable. Not to mention the tonne's of other great mods.

I love it when people don't read original posts.

You're right, I didn't read it until just now. Still fits. Those 3 mod's significantly shorten the 3 longest area's on replays.

Also, I most likely won't replay DA2 until after I've beaten ME3, maybe over summer if the game has been improved enough.

Modifié par planed scaped, 01 avril 2011 - 04:56 .

[srieser]

PirateT138 wrote...

I disagree, there are different ways to build your characters but that's about the only reason to replay it, everything else goes down the exact same way (almost exactly, at least) and you have little, if any, role to play in changing the events.

Edit: not that it doesn't have some replayability, it's just not as enjoyable.

That's just wrong. My two DA:2 games are very different. Sure the destinations  maybe the similar, but the journeys are very different. I've lost different friends in each game for different reasons, I tried to stay neutral in one game and took a stand in another. I'm still finding little differences all over the place and I love it.

[WingsandRings]

planed scaped wrote...

WingsandRings wrote...

planed scaped wrote...

Skip the Fade
Skip Ostagar
Skip The Deep Roads

= Origins more re-playable. Not to mention the tonne's of other great mods.

I love it when people don't read original posts.

You're right, I didn't read it until just now. Still fits. Those 3 mod's significantly shorten the 3 longest area's on replays.

Also, I most likely won't replay DA2 until after I've beaten ME3, maybe over summer if the game has been improved enough.

I'm still not sure you've read it. I'm also not sure you understand the apostrophe.

[Swordfishtrombone]

planed scaped wrote...

WingsandRings wrote...

planed scaped wrote...

Skip the Fade
Skip Ostagar
Skip The Deep Roads

= Origins more re-playable. Not to mention the tonne's of other great mods.

I love it when people don't read original posts.

You're right, I didn't read it until just now. Still fits. Those 3 mod's significantly shorten the 3 longest area's on replays.

Also, I most likely won't replay DA2 until after I've beaten ME3, maybe over summer if the game has been improved enough.

The OP, as he/she said in their first post, is playing on a console. No mods for consoles.

DA:O on PC does indeed benefit from multiple mods that add to the replay value. I am a PC user, so for me, DA:O is more replayable, though I only ever used Skip the Fade - I'm a patient sort of a guy so the long sections didn't bother me that much, though I think DA2 did well in not including anything quite that long.

The replayability of DA:O is also helped by the various different origin stories, and the fact that you DO seem to have the ablity to make more significant choises in DA:O than in DA2 - a fact that I've discovered on DA2 replays, trying different things. Unfortunately, it seems that there are very few real choises in DA2, that don't very quickly end up with the same situation. This makes it a good story to play once or twise, but limits further replayability.

And I did enjoy the game, though it has it's share of flaws.

[planed scaped]

WingsandRings wrote...

I'm still not sure you've read it. I'm also not sure you understand the apostrophe.

Good for you. You're telepathic.

Or retarded, I can't tell.

[Rathany]

Huh, I was disappointed that the Deep Roads was so short in DA 2. I was all set for a long dungeon crawl. I like a long challenge or two to make me really feel like I've earned the rewards later in the game. If I could change one thing about DA 2 (besides adding more Fenris scenes) it would be for the Deep Roads to be longer, but to also contain awesome armor upgrades.

I guess it's just me who feels that way then.

[KLUME777]

I respect your intelligent post OP, but i disagree.

My Reasons: Re-used Dungeons. I could barely finish DA2 once, i was so bored. Playing it again would be impossible, at least Origins locations were different and interesting, with better enemies. Ive played Origins + Awakening w/ all the DLC three times and I would gladly play them again if i had the time (i don't).

[Johnsen1972]

Are you on crack? Its definitly not!

There are almost no consequences for your actions and basically ONE END. You can only kill Merideth and Orsiono. No hard decisions and conserquences.

[Sabriana]

Well reasoned and well thought out post, OP.

I respectfully disagree. I like the Deep Roads, very much so. I'll never forget the feelings I had when entering it for the first time, I was so immersed that i couldn't stop playing. In the "Go make you own dinner, Mommy has demons and darkspawn, and ghosts to deal with!" kind of way.

I didn't like the Fade that much, but mostly because my Warden had to do a solo-run. Besides, once I knew the mechanics and the "how to's" of the Fade I could get through it pretty fast.

I replayed DA:O many times, and enjoyed each and every run. As a matter of fact, I still play it, and it will stay on my computer. DA 2 is 'meh' for me. I played through twice, and I want to really play it again so I can test out the builds (rogue/mage/warrior), but I just can't bring myself to do it.

With DA:O, there were plenty of times I simply couldn't tear myself away from the game. I played hours and hours in one sitting, and just couldn't stop. I was upset when I was interrupted, and even arranged my sleeping/eating/fun-with-others time around it.

With DA 2, I played for a few hours, and had no problem shutting it down and doing something else. Getting interrupted was no big deal, I wasn't immersed anyway.

I guess the gist of it is this: I still love playing DA:O, and I look forward to it. However, I really have to talk myself into firing up DA 2 again. It feels like a chore.

I understand all about being a poor college student, been there, done that
It's a bit of a bummer that console players don't have access to mods.

[wikkedjoker]

I hated the Fade and the Deep Roads. It just wasn't interesting to look at, and why no camp in the deep roads? That would have broken up the monotony a bit. Its just long stretches of boring looking places. HOWEVER Dragon Age 2 is just a game made up of boring looking places with none of the charms the companions gave us to hep get though the tough times.

[Abispa]

"Office Space" could have been so much cooler with a few beheadings.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

I love da2 and loved Origins only problem with origins is after over 20plays I couldn't stand ostagar and I also hated making so many new wardens when I wanted too play my completed ones. I hated the fade but could do it in less than an hour I love the deep roads especially the lord of the rings like cut scene when looking at the darkspawn horde both too me are easily replayable many times over but until Da has an import feature they'll never be as good as mass effect, replayability wise.

[QwibQwib]

I also disagree. Honestly I was over my bfs house and we started playing DAO, Dawrf.
If you had the pc version you'd understand...While we were playing DAO, the only thing I missed about DA2 was the combat system...I love DA2 rogue improvements.
When I watched the battle scene at Ostagar, I was like, DUD....DA2 is lacking this...when you watch the scene of all the soldier's freaked out faced and King Cailan saying "for naaaaar...ehm...for ferelden!!!!" and ... You just feel you are IN the game...I'd like to say more but it'll be a long post...and I'm too lazy

[QwibQwib]

@orlesianwardencommander, there's a ton of mods for that. Go dragonagrnexus.com you can import your already mad character's face into a new character and also, theres mods to skip Ostagar and the fade...

[Poubo]

maybe its just my love for Dwarven lore, i dont know. But why oh why do people dislike the deep roads so much? 

My only problem with it was it was not developed to its potential! 

It felt too rushed in DA: O and oh my god, DA2 destroyed it!

Maybe it's because i read both of the books, but when I played DA:O, i was hoping / expecting constant random interuptions while travelling the deep roads by darkspawn patrols, spirits etc...

i was expecting the ability to camp in the deep roads, mainly because camping in such an area sounded so exciting from the books.

bigger thaigs would have been nice - and this is one thing I liked about Awakening!!! 

The fade however i feel is like a chore, but after a couple of play throughs, it takes maybe 30 minutes on nightmare? you know where everything is and how to get there and you make sure your a level or so higher than your supposed to be.

but in response to you OP i wish i could go in to full details as why i found Origins way more replayable than DA2 (I cant even stomach starting again on DA2 currently and I must have played Origins 300 + hours).

but i believe that it is because you play on a console, and DA 2 has been designed specifically for a console audience. (not saying pc gamers are superior or anything like that). but you tend to see similar traits in all console games compared to the pc.

[Sabriana]

The faction A/faction B conflict in DA 2 seems to involve the entire world of Thedas in then end. Isn't that why Cassandra searches for the champion? To right the ship (again)?

Minor Spoiler


Varric: "Because your precious Chantry is falling apart and brought the entire world to the brink of war. And the champion is the only one who can set things right again."

So while in the beginning Hawke just tries to get ahead, in act II she saves the city, and at the end of act III the entire world of Thedas is going to be involved.


/Minor Spoiler

Sorry, but imo MotB did a far, far better job in the "not involving the big, bad, beasty/save the country" department imo.

Edited because clarity is a slippery little fellow

Modifié par Sabriana, 01 avril 2011 - 01:15 .

[Saboera]

WingsandRings wrote...

Did you even read the original post? Does 5 games in 5 years sound like "if you tend to play a lot of games?"  Do the math.  Dropping 800 dollars for 5 games is NOT "cheaper over a longer period of time."

EDIT: I always scream "FAAAAAAAAAAADE" in my Shatner voice too whenever I have to play it.  In fact, the first time I played DA2 and I was about to do the fade quest, I yelled it (not knowing it wasn't going to be a 3 hour grind) and scared the cat.

I did read and I replied like 20 minutes later so it was pretty much from the top of my head. Apologies, it's more of a general statement however as I usually keep seeing that excuse popping left and right everytime and usually from kids who spend ridiculous amount of money on brand new games and DLC.

[Alelsa]

Abispa wrote...
Meanwhile, "Highlander," one of dumbest fantasy movies of all time, I could pick apart all day, is perhaps the most heavily played DVD I own.

Sorry, but I really do have to ask: Do you own Highlander 2, and how heavily played is that one? 

[JaegerBane]

Poubo wrote...

maybe its just my love for Dwarven lore, i dont know. But why oh why do people dislike the deep roads so much? 

Good question. I thoroughly enjoyed them.

I think what really kills DA2's replayability is the simple fact that Hawke has virtually no effect on the storyline. The storyline itself was never particularly stellar, but what really sunk it was that hawke may as well not even existed and it wouldn't have mattered. Being the one who influences momentous events is *crucial* to an epic story and DA2 fell flat on it's face in this regard.

If the game had absolutely fantastic gameplay and environments then it wouldn't have been disastorous - but since the gameplay never varies and the quests all look the same, set in the same places, it contributes a lot to the feeling that it's a chore.

Imagine that - a bioware game that is a chore to play. I can't think of more damning criticism than that and DA2, in of itself, doesn't really deserve such criticism, but as a DA sequel and a bioware game to boot, it just doesn't match up. Everyone has their preferences, but I have to confess that I can't think a single, sensible argument to claim that DA2 has more replayability. It's an inferior game in every metric you can judge it by.

[WingsandRings]

Abispa wrote...

"Office Space" could have been so much cooler with a few beheadings.

Office space had A beheading!....of a copy machine.

Thanks to all of the people who have been polite and respectful when disagreeing.   I knew when I posted it that it wasn't going to be a popular opinion, and I think many of you do bring up good points about what drags down the replayability.

Here's what just hit me: I was surprised too when it turned out after all that you had only 2 options.  But then I started thinking about it: KOTOR had only two options.  You do all that work and go to all those planets and make all those choices and then at the end your choice is either either light side or dark side.  That's it.  JE did the same thing (I don't count the stupid 3rd option that gets you out of the final boss battle).  And with both of them (just like DA2) you could completely switch sides at the end -- you could have been open palm the entire time and then at the very end just be like "Meh, closed fist" for no reason and it changes the outcome of the ENTIRE game with no reference to your previous choices.

...And that never bothered me until RIGHT NOW.

[Doyle41]

Saboera wrote...

To each their own I guess, I tried to replay it to get some value out of it. I really wanted to enjoy the game, I truly do, but it just seems impossible to me personally.

I just cannot bear to run around Kirkwall anymore, I had trouble going through Kirkwall yet another time in Act 3, the city remains so static that it kills it for me. Such great potential was wasted with Kirkwall, same with the framed narrative. The idea is great but the execution just fell flat on its face.

The sole idea of fighting thugs every street corners again makes me cringe, I even had to take a break in my first playthrough because of how sick I was of them. It was just way too frequent with zero diversity in my opinion. That is what ''grinding'' really is by definition, it's killing the same mobs over and over and over again. I mean, Dragon Age had its share in the Deep Roads but at least there was diversity in the encounters and the approach you had to take towards them.

Those are the 2 big hiccups that prevent me from being able to enjoy myself while replaying it.

The only really tedious part for me in Origins was the Fade beyond the first playthrough because of how linear it was. It was really cool the first time with the transformation mechanics but on the second one, it just felt washed out already.

Ironically I actually loved the deep roads, it simply was the one area that stirred the most emotions out of me. It went on for a long time, yes, but that area just oozed with danger in an intimidating way, thanks to all the lore and mystery behind them. As I went deeper and deeper, I suddenly realize how isolated I was from any sort of civilization and it just amplified that feeling of danger tenfold for me. It felt like I was wandering uncharted territories never knowing what sort of horrors i'd find further in (for the first playthrough at least). Of course for the second playthrough I can see how it gets tiresome but my first time in there was such an amazing experience that I just dwelled in nostalgia for the subsequent ones.

Tho I guess playing Origins on the PC itself was the way to go for the full experience, I could see how it was less enjoyable on consoles with ankward controls amongst other things. I'm glad they fixed it for DA2 or at least tried to but it just feels to me that instead of accomplishing their goal of playing to each platform strength, they just inverted the roles and the PC got the short end of the stick this time around.

I'll agree with this post. I must say, my anticipation for the game made my wife nervous and happy for me at the same time. She was nervous because if I played DA 2 like Origins, she would never see me. After completing DA2, it is sitting lonely and idle. My wife questioned why me and my PS3 weren't inseparable. I said, "I beat it." She said, "so."
I don't have the same desire to go back and beat it again. I know there are things that may be missing from the game that has deterred me from playing.  I ditched New Vegas kinda quick also. Maybe I'm on a downturn in video games.

[SilentK]

Hmm..... I'm already on Hawke 3 and I have two completed warden and one who is currently stuck in the werewolf lair. Most likely he will stay there for quite some time. I romanced Leliana and couldn't keep myself from using up all my conversations so I have nothing new to look forward to in that departement. I haven't even gone to Red Cliff yet. Yupp, it's all my own fault for not thinking a head and talk too much to my companions =) what can I say.

For me it's easier to start up a new Hawke and with the friend/rival-system it feels like I have something new to see. On my 3:rd Hawke I'm going to rival Anders and friend Fenris, before it's always been the other way around. I love DA:O to bits, but I just can't play it at the moment. For some reason I really connected with my Hawkes, for me they feel more like living breathing people than my warden who I still like very much.

[CloudOfShadows]

Saboera wrote...

To each their own I guess, I tried to replay it to get some value out of it. I really wanted to enjoy the game, I truly do, but it just seems impossible to me personally.

Indeed. To each their own. I couldn't bring myself to replay Origins at first. I mean, I did try a couple of different races, etc, but when I reached the camp and that first grind area, followed by the tower, I more often than not simply ceased to play because I knew that what lay ahead was just more long winded combat areas with a couple of dialogs (which was where decisions were made).

Now, with DA2, I have much more fun playing it more than once immediately again - maybe in part even because the recycled environment really don't matter for that. In Origins there wasn't new maps on a 2nd playthrough, or on the third. It was still the same, and mostly a lot more bland than DA2.

Besides, the combat is fast-paced in DA2. I can get in have fun, and then do something else. It's not a time-hungry monster game like Origins - good for me, bad for some, it seems.

[grahsco1]

planed scaped wrote...

Skip the Fade
Skip Ostagar
Skip The Deep Roads

= Origins more re-playable. Not to mention the tonne's of other great mods.

Why don't they just make a mod called Skip the Game?  You start at the cutscene where you kill the Archdemon.

On topic:  I agree wholeheartedly with the OP.  While I would have liked to have seen more variety in settings, it's not a big annoyance for me.  And I find the story more engaging that Origins, which after all was a Save-the-World story that has been done before.