188 réponses à ce sujet

[JaegerBane]

grahsco1 wrote...

planed scaped wrote...

Skip the Fade
Skip Ostagar
Skip The Deep Roads

= Origins more re-playable. Not to mention the tonne's of other great mods.

Why don't they just make a mod called Skip the Game?  You start at the cutscene where you kill the Archdemon.

On topic:  I agree wholeheartedly with the OP.  While I would have liked to have seen more variety in settings, it's not a big annoyance for me.  And I find the story more engaging that Origins, which after all was a Save-the-World story that has been done before.  

It's been done before because that kind of story works well. It worked a lot better than DA2's approach of just replacing the story with sidequests.

[Kimberly Shaw]

Having the player able to side with Orsino and have it mean something to the ending would make it more satisfying to replay.
Having a player able to stop Anders and having it mean something to the ending would make it  more satisfying to replay.
Having the player not take a side in the Mage/Templar battle but fight for the people would make it more satisfying to replay.

I did play Origins more than once because I wanted to see what it would be like to become Queen and marry Alistair; I wanted to see what it would be like to side against Alistair and play with Loghain, I wanted to play a bad arse and make all the angry choices and kill Leliana at the temple and defile it.

While DA2 is faster paced, and easier to get through more than once, I don't find it's replayability as satisfying for the different way the game plays out as DA:O.

But they are both replayable, which is great.

Modifié par Kimberly Shaw, 01 avril 2011 - 03:55 .

[Rockpopple]

I agree with you, OP. I also play on the consoles, mostly cuz I can't afford a high-end PC, so I miss out on all the fun mods that made DA:O more replayable.

That being said, I still had multiple playthroughs of DA:O. Despite the fact that the games really start to blend together after Ostagar, and despite the roughest slogs of the game (The Fade, the Deep Roads, etc), I still had about 5 full playthroughs of the game and dozens of partial playthroughs.

Funny thing is, I'm doing the same with DA II. It's just as replayable to me as Origins.

[SilentK]

Hmmm =) I have seen a couple of new things on this Hawke that I didn't see before. I love it when bringing a different party to a quest get's me some new dialogue, I like getting to know my companions better that way. Especially the humorous ones are wonderful. For me that makes it more fun =) bringing Merrill to find the cargo or Anders to find the templar. Those were new for me.

[Chiramu]

If DA2 had a New Game + option I would be replaying it over and over lol.

But since it doesn't it makes the replay value harder :<, I love my main character and I want to do a new game + with her!

So Origins has a much greater replay value for me, personally than DA2. Only because you have a lot of choice in the start character.
When my PC has a voice I personally feel that I can't change their look, it just doesn't feel right to hear their voice coming out of a different face for me :<.

[haroldhardluck]

Johnsen1972 wrote...
There are almost no consequences for your actions and basically ONE END. You can only kill Merideth and Orsiono. No hard decisions and conserquences.

There is only one end in DAO. You fight and kill the Archdemon. You can only kill the Archdemon. It does not matter whether Alistair is king,dead or exiled. It does not matter whether your character lives or dies. The ending is the Archdemon is killed.

As for consequences there are plenty of them. This is a no spoiler section so I will not mention specifics but your decisions in act 1 has consequences that directly affect you in act 2. Similarly decisions in act 2 will have consequences in act 3. Rescue someone and they ask you for help in the next act. Kill them and the second quest does not occur. Kill someone in one act and friends appear to avenge them in the next act. Spare them and there are no revenge seeking friends.

Your dialogue in the opening of act 3 determines a whole range of quests that you will get and not get. So the whole game is about consequences. In DAO the consequences only show up in the epilogue and generally have no effect on you in the game. It does not matter who you put on the throne in Orzammar. You get the dwarven army. The consequences only affect the dwarves and not you. But in DA2 there are many consequences that directly affect you later in the game.

There are far more consequences in DA2 than DAO and they directly affect your character in the game rather show up in an epilogue after the end.


Harold

[Melca36]

WingsandRings wrote...

planed scaped wrote...

Skip the Fade
Skip Ostagar
Skip The Deep Roads

= Origins more re-playable. Not to mention the tonne's of other great mods.

I love it when people don't read original posts.

They read your post. they just don't happen to agree with you.

You want instant gratification in your games. You don't want to work for your accomplishments. Some of us want a bit more depth to our gaming experience.

[Melca36]

Rockpopple wrote...

I agree with you, OP. I also play on the consoles, mostly cuz I can't afford a high-end PC, so I miss out on all the fun mods that made DA:O more replayable.

That being said, I still had multiple playthroughs of DA:O. Despite the fact that the games really start to blend together after Ostagar, and despite the roughest slogs of the game (The Fade, the Deep Roads, etc), I still had about 5 full playthroughs of the game and dozens of partial playthroughs.

Funny thing is, I'm doing the same with DA II. It's just as replayable to me as Origins.

Its a myth that you have to pay top dollar for a high end PC.    <_<

[jadefishes]

I didn't mind the so-called grinds in DAO. In fact, I quite enjoy the Deep Roads, but I see a lot of replayability in DA2. For me it comes in trying out different personalities, working with different values as a character, and enjoying the way your choices with your character affect what your character says and some of his/her reactions.

No, in the end your choices might not make a huge difference in the outcome - the Chantry's gonna go boom, templars are gonna die, mages are gonna die, Thedas is going to be at war - but your experience on the way to that outcome can be subtly or radically different along the way.

I still think DAO is the superior game, but I see a lot going for DA2.

[am_victory]

I'm right there with you.  My only deviation is that I consider DA2 to be the better game.  Why?  By sheer virtue of the fact that I never made it through more one than playthrough of Origins.  I wanted to.  I had grand plans.  But I just could.  NOT.  summon up the enthusiasm for the grind, as you so eloquently put it.  With DA2 I'm happily playing my second character.  This is the first time EVER that I've replayed a game back-to-back, with happy thoughts of a third and fourth character after this one.  Seriously.  And I've been gaming for 19 years.  That's a major thing, in my book.

[Melca36]

am_victory wrote...

I'm right there with you.  My only deviation is that I consider DA2 to be the better game.  Why?  By sheer virtue of the fact that I never made it through more one than playthrough of Origins.  I wanted to.  I had grand plans.  But I just could.  NOT.  summon up the enthusiasm for the grind, as you so eloquently put it.  With DA2 I'm happily playing my second character.  This is the first time EVER that I've replayed a game back-to-back, with happy thoughts of a third and fourth character after this one.  Seriously.  And I've been gaming for 19 years.  That's a major thing, in my book.

Thats good for you but please keep in mind a great many of us did NOT see it as a grind. 
Why bother even playing a game if you are too lazy to play it?

[88mphSlayer]

i can't believe it, but it looks like i'm the only person on this website that liked the fade...

parts of DAO that i liked:
-The Fade, i thought this was great and a real break from the rest of the game (missed long fade sections in DA2...)
-Origin stories, loved all of these really, all really well written
-Battle of Ostagar, starts out reallllly slow (grey warden fetchquest in particular felt needlessly tacked on) but the story here and the battles were great
-Brecilian Ruins, the whole story of the wolves vs. dalish elves was interesting
-Urn of Sacred Ashes, the whole cultist bit and fighting the dragon was great, the puzzles were a nice departure as well

what i didn't like was:
-Denerim pre-finale, never liked it and thought the whole Loghain bit was under-developed after the amazing setup with the betrayal at Ostagar...
-Denerim finale, never much cared for the gameplay during this section including the final boss, did appreciate the story at least but that was minimal compared to the amount of gameplay
-Brecilian Forest, while the later bit was interesting this first part was dull and full of monotonous backtracking, not to mention the hermit was annoying
-The Deep Roads/Orzammar revisit, mostly just a grind, the whole forge scene was cool but that's what... 1% of this whole quest?
-Redcliffe, this whole section wasn't very long but it was entirely forgettable unless you killed the kid, otherwise it gets overshadowed by the circle tower
-Lothering, just a bunch of fetch quests in a village... literally nothing else to do

while i appreciate the really long mission structure for DAO on paper, when actually replaying i only like a few missions so it's hard for me to replay DAO that much and still enjoy it like i did the first time

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 02 avril 2011 - 03:02 .

[Persephone]

Melca36 wrote...

am_victory wrote...

I'm right there with you.  My only deviation is that I consider DA2 to be the better game.  Why?  By sheer virtue of the fact that I never made it through more one than playthrough of Origins.  I wanted to.  I had grand plans.  But I just could.  NOT.  summon up the enthusiasm for the grind, as you so eloquently put it.  With DA2 I'm happily playing my second character.  This is the first time EVER that I've replayed a game back-to-back, with happy thoughts of a third and fourth character after this one.  Seriously.  And I've been gaming for 19 years.  That's a major thing, in my book.

Thats good for you but please keep in mind a great many of us did NOT see it as a grind. 
Why bother even playing a game if you are too lazy to play it?

A great many DAO fans do, hence the popularity of the "Skip the Fade" Mod. I do not play DAO or DA2 for the combat. (Strange, I knooooooooooow) So I don't care for endlessly long level grinding.

[Melca36]

Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

am_victory wrote...

I'm right there with you.  My only deviation is that I consider DA2 to be the better game.  Why?  By sheer virtue of the fact that I never made it through more one than playthrough of Origins.  I wanted to.  I had grand plans.  But I just could.  NOT.  summon up the enthusiasm for the grind, as you so eloquently put it.  With DA2 I'm happily playing my second character.  This is the first time EVER that I've replayed a game back-to-back, with happy thoughts of a third and fourth character after this one.  Seriously.  And I've been gaming for 19 years.  That's a major thing, in my book.

Thats good for you but please keep in mind a great many of us did NOT see it as a grind. 
Why bother even playing a game if you are too lazy to play it?

A great many DAO fans do, hence the popularity of the "Skip the Fade" Mod. I do not play DAO or DA2 for the combat. (Strange, I knooooooooooow) So I don't care for endlessly long level grinding.

I'll have respectfully disagree. I felt ripped off with DA:2's version of the Fade.

No offense but I think people are just lazy. I can do the whole Fade in 20 minutes on my PC.

I hope there is a reasonable compromise in the next game.  I don't buy a game seeking instant gratifcation. I want my money's worth when I play. Hope thats understandable.

[Persephone]

Melca36 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

am_victory wrote...

I'm right there with you.  My only deviation is that I consider DA2 to be the better game.  Why?  By sheer virtue of the fact that I never made it through more one than playthrough of Origins.  I wanted to.  I had grand plans.  But I just could.  NOT.  summon up the enthusiasm for the grind, as you so eloquently put it.  With DA2 I'm happily playing my second character.  This is the first time EVER that I've replayed a game back-to-back, with happy thoughts of a third and fourth character after this one.  Seriously.  And I've been gaming for 19 years.  That's a major thing, in my book.

Thats good for you but please keep in mind a great many of us did NOT see it as a grind. 
Why bother even playing a game if you are too lazy to play it?

A great many DAO fans do, hence the popularity of the "Skip the Fade" Mod. I do not play DAO or DA2 for the combat. (Strange, I knooooooooooow) So I don't care for endlessly long level grinding.

I'll have respectfully disagree. I felt ripped off with DA:2's version of the Fade.

No offense but I think people are just lazy. I can do the whole Fade in 20 minutes on my PC.

I hope there is a reasonable compromise in the next game.  I don't buy a game seeking instant gratifcation. I want my money's worth when I play. Hope thats understandable.

It sure is understandable.

And I too hope for a compromise in DA3. Put the best of DAO and DA2 in the next game. That's what I'd like. Oh and more Alistair, of course.

[WingsandRings]

Melca36 wrote...

WingsandRings wrote...

planed scaped wrote...

Skip the Fade
Skip Ostagar
Skip The Deep Roads

= Origins more re-playable. Not to mention the tonne's of other great mods.

I love it when people don't read original posts.

They read your post. they just don't happen to agree with you.

You want instant gratification in your games. You don't want to work for your accomplishments. Some of us want a bit more depth to our gaming experience.

....

What?

Why does it matter if someone didn't like something you do or if we like something you don't? I'm sorry you (and lots of people) didn't like DA2.  It's frustrating and disappointing when you're looking forward to something and then it lets you down.  That's how I felt about ME1.  It's also frustrating when you really enjoy something and other people just b**** about it.  But calling people "lazy" and "not wanting to work for...accomplishments" because they don't enjoy certain aspects of a game is a bit extreme. 

Also, I completely disagree that length = depth.  Which isn't to say that I don't think DA:O had depth.  I think it had oodles of depth.  But I don't think the Fade taking 2 hours is what contributed to that.  I think it was complex plots, deep characters, and a well-thought out plot.

Modifié par WingsandRings, 02 avril 2011 - 05:50 .

[WingsandRings]

Persephone wrote...


A great many DAO fans do, hence the popularity of the "Skip the Fade" Mod. I do not play DAO or DA2 for the combat. (Strange, I knooooooooooow) So I don't care for endlessly long level grinding.

I'm with you Persephone.  I don't play Bioware games for the combat either.  The only importance of the combat for me is "Can I do it and not die?"  If the answer is yes, I'm fine with the combat.  It's the characters and story that interest me.  Which is probably why the "waves" of thugs bothered me a lot less than other people...because I'm NOT frantically working my tactics and trying to plan and really banking on that being the fun part of the game.  That's what I do to GET to the fun part of the game (finding out more about my characters, uncovering mysteries, seeing how things go differently when I make different choices, etc).  Which is why the Fade drives me crazy.  I'm on those companion dream sequences like white on rice because, to me, they're the only really interesting thing that happens in the Fade.  I've never once brought Dog or Shale into the Fade because I know they don't have dreams -- they just wake up.  Alistair's and Zevran's though! Wow. (I can't decide if Alistair's is more or less potent if you've already encountered his sister in Denerim.  Either way, it's harsh when you know what the reality is.)

[Sabariel]

Hate the Fade, don't mind the Deep Roads, still going to play DAO more than DA2

[Melca36]

WingsandRings wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

WingsandRings wrote...

planed scaped wrote...

Skip the Fade
Skip Ostagar
Skip The Deep Roads

= Origins more re-playable. Not to mention the tonne's of other great mods.

I love it when people don't read original posts.

They read your post. they just don't happen to agree with you.

You want instant gratification in your games. You don't want to work for your accomplishments. Some of us want a bit more depth to our gaming experience.

....

What?

Why does it matter if someone didn't like something you do or if we like something you don't? I'm sorry you (and lots of people) didn't like DA2.  It's frustrating and disappointing when you're looking forward to something and then it lets you down.  That's how I felt about ME1.  It's also frustrating when you really enjoy something and other people just b**** about it.  But calling people "lazy" and "not wanting to work for...accomplishments" because they don't enjoy certain aspects of a game is a bit extreme. 

Also, I completely disagree that length = depth.  Which isn't to say that I don't think DA:O had depth.  I think it had oodles of depth.  But I don't think the Fade taking 2 hours is what contributed to that.  I think it was complex plots, deep characters, and a well-thought out plot.

It never took me 2 hours to do the fade...EVER.

And did I say I hate DA:2???   I give it 7/8 but it was dumbed down and simplified in areas to appeal to the console users.

I mean no offense by that. I have a Wii but I still play PC games and I resent my intelligence being insulted.

[MingWolf]

WingsandRings wrote...
I dread the Fade.  I dread the Deep Roads.  I dread all those floors of the Werewolf lair.  DA:O had a LOT of really REALLY long periods where you did nothing but level grind with no plot movement at all.  Just hack and slash, hack and slash.  No choices to make, no witty dialogue, not even interesting things to click on.  Just kill the darkspawn, kill the undead, etc.  And some of them you can't break up.  Once you're in the Fade, you're just stuck, for like 2 hours (average amount of time it takes me) and you're not going anywhere or doing ANYTHING except opening doors.

The thing that makes it hard to replay DA:O for me is similar: the length and the grinding.  That and the game is just so very long.  I don't necessarily agree with the part about no choices, witty dialogue, and things to click on, for in my opinion, that was actually a tad bit better in DA:O.  Still, some areas do drag on a bit, and thus I do not replay it as often as I ought to.  

My feelings extend to the Baldur's Gate series really.  A game that is beyond epicness, but some segments are just so long that it makes it hard to go back to the game except maybe once or twice a year. 

On the other hand, I have trouble finding much replay value in DA2 .  Length isn't so much of an issue for me as compared to the repetition... the pile of sidequests, the combat waves....  I started a 2nd playthrough recently but never got really far past my first meeting with Varric because I just dread having to go through the whole gold haul again in Act 1. 

[CloudOfShadows]

Melca36 wrote...

[...] Why bother even playing a game if you are too lazy to play it?

ROFL. You made my day.

LOL.

Yes, indeed, why play a game if it's not hard work. Really. Why would anyone ever bother to even consider starting up a game if they didn't have to exhaust themselves just to get it running.

[madisoncb15]

I'm going to have to disagree as well...i'm currently on my third playthrough of Origins (i bought the ultimate edition two weeks before DA2 came out) and haven't had the desire to play DA2 since I beat it the first time. I did start another DA2 playthrough just to choose the "evil" choices (use that term lightly as it doesn't really matter what dialogue you choose) instead of the "good" choices, and there's just no difference

In DAO, no playthrough has been the same for me. The Origin stories personalized your character into unique areas of the game, whether it's your circle mage realizing your best friend has a chance to save the Arl's son, or a dwarf noble's return to Ostagar after being on the surface. DA2 doesn't have that luxury. No matter what choice i pick in any quest, i've seen little to no difference at all. What the hell does gaining the big bad Qunari's respect earn me? Nothing, he still leads a revolt on Kirkwall. Does it make any difference if I refuse to fight the Qunari or tell him I accept his duel? No. I don't understand why people say Origins was so static, but DA2 has many variables....sure, you go through a set of cities and kill the archdemon in DAO. But all your choices you make affect your playthrough quite a bit, and you realize it. It's nice to go back to the Dalish camp and see it infested with Werewolves. In DA2, there's no sense of variety other than having an option for a quest or two.

And people say that DAO reused map layouts, but it wasn't a big issue. In the Deep Roads segment, there were many sub-areas you could visit. Each one had a completely different layout. But in DA2, a cave in Sundermount and a cave on the Wounded Coast looks exactly the same. Sure, in DAO there might have been the same area used for a random event, or even for the Origins story, but it's acceptable because those areas are tied into the game at a later time. In DA2, it's just "rename and reuse", which kills the enjoyability of a game, and if you don't enjoy it, you won't replay it

[eye basher]

People call DA:O better i can beat origins the exact same way every single time setting characters the exact same way hell if you know how to use the tactics slots well you don't even have to beat the game it beats itself is that simple i beat it on nightmare only touching the controler when i had to run from place to place i beat the archdemon in nightmare only touching the controler when using the ballista origins is a game with a ridiculous amount of training wheels.

[KennethAFTopp]

I feel like I am the only one in the world who loved the fade and Deep roads.

Modifié par KennethAFTopp, 05 avril 2011 - 02:57 .

[Killer3000ad]

Can't get a 2nd playthrough out of DA2. The tedious repetitive fights where another wave just comes, the recycled maps, the annoying assassins, the teleporting mages, the FedEx quests with no clear backdrop to it, the lack of choices, or the lack of the illusion that your choices matter.

The last bit really irks me, side with mages, fight the same bosses, side with templars, fight the same bosses, help the apostates in Act of Mercy, you fight them in Best Served Cold, turn them into the Circle, fight them anyway in Best Served Cold, tell Fenyriel to go to Dalish, you save him when the nightmares get bad, tell him to go to the Circle, you save him anyway when the nightmares go bad, help Anders with his quest or not in act 3, the result is still the same...... Does anyone see what I am getting here? Too many of the quests end up with the same effing result with you fighting the same opponents regardless of whether you picked A or B.

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 05 avril 2011 - 03:16 .