188 réponses à ce sujet

[keginkc]

I'm just about to finish Act 1 for the second time. DA2 was a longer game for me (110 hours on Nightmare, DAO was 84, also on Nightmare), yet I finished it in a month, and immediately began to replay it. DAO literally took me months of stop and start play to finish, although I think it's fair to say that Mass Effect 2 was a big part of that. But either way, I finished DA2 in a single, steady period of play, and then immediately replayed it. DAO, although I started a number of different characters, I only finished a total of two times. I repeatedly found myself getting hung up on the long, grindy sections of the game, whether it was the Deep Roads or the Circle/Fade. I have a feeling I'll end up playing DA2 at least 3 times, and probably more depending on what kind of DLC there is. So...for me...it probably is more replayable. Although in time it may seem as tedious to me as DAO was in later plays. It's impossible to say right now.

[Judge585]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

It seems even metaphors are beyond your understanding. I will have to keep our next discussion at a lower level so that I don’t confuse you. Don’t beat yourself too badly over this. You walked into a situation that you can’t handle and now you’re trying desperately to stay afloat like a duck on a pond. I hope that simple visualization is not beyond your mental faculties which clearly have been brought into question.

Like the parable of the Boy who cried Wolf? You spent your time crying Troll when there was none. Thinking that it was clever as you laughed to yourself. But the next time may not be a joke, when a Troll indeed comes and mocks you. Leaving you once again flailing your hands and crying troll, and wondering why no one cares. If this parable is beyond your understand, then I will have no choice but to lower my expectations once again when speaking to you and try to reach your level of intellect.

The derailment was the only goal that you have accomplished, you have failed to provide sufficient backing that shows DA2 is more replayable then DA:O. Based on what you consider to be the strengths of DA2. I can conclude that DA:O was beyond your ability to play since it was not handed to you on a silver platter. I can only wonder why some people prefer a game to play itself, while you sit idly back giggling as the level unfolds.

Once again, I must remind you that I am not your mirror. It’s time that you should some individualism instead of using my words. You have made it clear more than once that you lack the capacity to understand not only the meaning but the intent behind them. Take the time to formulate your own thought for once.

I took a look at your latest offering and it turned out exactly as hackneyed as I thought. I even called it in the last paragraph of my last post: it's a carbon copy of what I wrote with different phrasing. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and action speaks louder than words. You sly flatterer, you.

You really think the steak to a starved dog metaphor was worthwhile? Now, it's ducks floating on the pond? The boy who cried wolf (btw, this made absolutely no sense because I don't mind if a internet troll appears and no one cares, but I guess you do care because you lack the mental capacity to deal with it)? Throw down a gauntlet? WTF? I guess that passes for wit from whence you came - what, a medieval zoo? Of course, I'm just being facetious there. Oh, I get your useless metaphors and parables all right; I get what you take for a brain processes abstract ideas with unintelligble metaphors instead of dealing with the ideas themselves. That's a sign of the lower intellect mind dealing with abstract issues. That was why I used the cake analogy way back to aid you in understanding the focus of this debate, but you ran off with it with pies and vanilla. I'm glad it indeed helped you understand the frame of the issue in your limited capacity, even if you loved it so much to expand it unnecessarily. Now you plan to counterargue how you were doing the same for me all along, but let me remind you that your own words and actions indicate otherwise due to the smugness in using your metaphors and the parables that you take so much pride for. I take no pride in using metaphors. Of course, you'll probably just ignore that last few sentences and carry on anyway.

Do you know how dumbed down I have to compose these posts so that you don't mistake an opinion as fact or vice versa already? Go back and read how often I had to point out specific nuances to you and count them. I'm serving the lowest common denominator here, and that is all you, since my second post in this thread. See what I did there? You said you will lower your level in the future (which means you haven't yet), but I lowered mine since yesterday for your benefit. Go back to the post and read it this time. Got that? Good. I really don't want to dumb it down to metaphors for you again. Since you wonder a lot about why people like something, I see your smugness and unwillingness to respect another's opinion, which was my original point. If you don't see anything wrong with that, then I'm not even certain remedial education would help you. Get it through you thick skull, you will not change my opinion of the game based on your disingenous statements from an imaginary friend or how the improvements were all unnecessary.

"Beyond your ability to play." You can "conclude?" That's a statement of assertion that is seemingly picked out of thin air. Shows your lacking in comprehension level and shoddy memory since I detailed my DA:O playthroughs earlier. I guess selective memory works for you (yes, you plan to say I have selective memory in your next post as it spontaneously occurred to you just now). Just fyi, it would've been valid had you challenged my playthroughs and I would have at least entertained that line of argument, but your claim to a conclusion again confirms to me that you're nothing but a troll seeking attention. Let me guess, your next post will say that yadda yadda I'm the attention seeker. /yawn

Frankly, I tire of you and your copy and paste responses, not to mention the sophomoric metaphors - I did call you out for being bad at humor since yesterday. You also don't read with any acceptable level of comprehension. It's the very definition of ennui. I'm beginning to suspect that you're taking advantage of my grace in using these posts as a means to improve your lack of English skills. Because no one can be as dense as you and still want to come back for more punishment while committing more mistakes in your post, e.g. I like how your attempt to mock my intelligence with this phrase: "If this parable is beyond your understand...[sic]" Proofreading - emphasis for hint to the mistake - is your friend. I wouldn't have picked on you for that error had the irony not been oh so sweet.

Modifié par Judge585, 09 avril 2011 - 11:03 .

[Serpieri Nei]

Judge585 wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

It seems even metaphors are beyond your understanding. I will have to keep our next discussion at a lower level so that I don’t confuse you. Don’t beat yourself too badly over this. You walked into a situation that you can’t handle and now you’re trying desperately to stay afloat like a duck on a pond. I hope that simple visualization is not beyond your mental faculties which clearly have been brought into question.

Like the parable of the Boy who cried Wolf? You spent your time crying Troll when there was none. Thinking that it was clever as you laughed to yourself. But the next time may not be a joke, when a Troll indeed comes and mocks you. Leaving you once again flailing your hands and crying troll, and wondering why no one cares. If this parable is beyond your understand, then I will have no choice but to lower my expectations once again when speaking to you and try to reach your level of intellect.

The derailment was the only goal that you have accomplished, you have failed to provide sufficient backing that shows DA2 is more replayable then DA:O. Based on what you consider to be the strengths of DA2. I can conclude that DA:O was beyond your ability to play since it was not handed to you on a silver platter. I can only wonder why some people prefer a game to play itself, while you sit idly back giggling as the level unfolds.

Once again, I must remind you that I am not your mirror. It’s time that you should some individualism instead of using my words. You have made it clear more than once that you lack the capacity to understand not only the meaning but the intent behind them. Take the time to formulate your own thought for once.

I took a look at your latest offering and it turned out exactly as hackneyed as I thought. I even called it in the last paragraph of my last post: it's a carbon copy of what I wrote with different phrasing. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and action speaks louder than words. You sly flatterer, you.

You really think the steak to a starved dog metaphor was worthwhile? Now, it's ducks floating on the pond? The boy who cried wolf (btw, this made absolutely no sense because I don't mind if a internet troll appears and no one cares, but I guess you do care because you lack the mental capacity to deal with it)? Throw down a gauntlet? WTF? I guess that passes for wit from whence you came - what, a medieval zoo? Of course, I'm just being facetious there. Oh, I get your useless metaphors and parables all right; I get what you take for a brain processes abstract ideas with unintelligble metaphors instead of dealing with the ideas themselves. That's a sign of the lower intellect mind dealing with abstract issues. That was why I used the cake analogy way back to aid you in understanding the focus of this debate, but you ran off with it with pies and vanilla. I'm glad it indeed helped you understand the frame of the issue in your limited capacity, even if you loved it so much to expand it unnecessarily. Now you plan to counterargue how you were doing the same for me all along, but let me remind you that your own words and actions indicate otherwise due to the smugness in using your metaphors and the parables that you take so much pride for. I take no pride in using metaphors. Of course, you'll probably just ignore that last few sentences and carry on anyway.

Do you know how dumbed down I have to compose these posts so that you don't mistake an opinion as fact or vice versa already? Go back and read how often I had to point out specific nuances to you and count them. I'm serving the lowest common denominator here, and that is all you, since my second post in this thread. See what I did there? You said you will lower your level in the future (which means you haven't yet), but I lowered mine since yesterday for your benefit. Go back to the post and read it this time. Got that? Good. I really don't want to dumb it down to metaphors for you again. Since you wonder a lot about why people like something, I see your smugness and unwillingness to respect another's opinion, which was my original point. If you don't see anything wrong with that, then I'm not even certain remedial education would help you. Get it through you thick skull, you will not change my opinion of the game based on your disingenous statements from an imaginary friend or how the improvements were all unnecessary.

"Beyond your ability to play." You can "conclude?" That's a statement of assertion that is seemingly picked out of thin air. Shows your lacking in comprehension level and shoddy memory since I detailed my DA:O playthroughs earlier. I guess selective memory works for you (yes, you plan to say I have selective memory in your next post as it spontaneously occurred to you just now). Just fyi, it would've been valid had you challenged my playthroughs and I would have at least entertained that line of argument, but your claim to a conclusion again confirms to me that you're nothing but a troll seeking attention. Let me guess, your next post will say that yadda yadda I'm the attention seeker. /yawn

Frankly, I tire of you and your copy and paste responses, not to mention the sophomoric metaphors - I did call you out for being bad at humor since yesterday. You also don't read with any acceptable level of comprehension. It's the very definition of ennui. I'm beginning to suspect that you're taking advantage of my grace in using these posts as a means to improve your lack of English skills. Because no one can be as dense as you and still want to come back for more punishment while committing more mistakes in your post, e.g. I like how your attempt to mock my intelligence with this phrase: "If this parable is beyond your understand...[sic]" Proofreading - emphasis for hint to the mistake - is your friend. I wouldn't have picked on you for that error had the irony not been oh so sweet.

It seems your delusions have clouded your ability to form a rational thought. I doubt you could even fathom the differences between attempt and intent at your current level. I must say your obsession with me becoming your mirror is far from flattering. I suggest you seek professional help before your id is lost to ego as your mental capacity continues to diminish.

I am curious since it’s clear that you have shown trollish behaviour, I find quite hypocritical that you haven’t taken a fine tooth comb through your post and located your own errors. Don’t worry, I will not point them out since it’s a tactic that you rely on and is quite beneath me.

Dumbed Down, does describe you aptly but stop being so hard on yourself. You don’t need to add another complex to your already long list of mental problems.  As I have stated many times I understand the challenges you are facing but you really need to understand that the only person here scared of having his opinion changed is yourself. It’s a shame that you prefer to be close minded but to pretend that people are trying to force you to change your outlook on DA2 is quite preposterous. Let me make it clear, the only person that can change your opinion is yourself but it seems you like to imagine those around you as the Bad Guy. I truly feel sorry for you as one human being to another.

I can understand that you are tired of mirroring my responses, I have tried many times to let you know that I do not desire that role but you seem inclined to place yourself in front of it. The first step is the most difficult, but the ones that follow can be very liberating. Have the courage to go forward and learn from this experience. You have derailed this thread long enough with your inadequacies. I look forward to discussing the merits and flaws of DA2 in the future when you are done crucifying yourself.

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 09 avril 2011 - 11:56 .

[mr fried]

Origins did the traditional RPG and standard type story, but it did it quite well. What it didn't do well was there wasn't as much downtime as you get in many of the others, they tried to address this with DA2 but at the very start they over did it a bit...
Origins could have benifited from having more cutscenes and dialogue points, it would have made the longer areas feel less of a grind, thing is, I actually liked the Deep Roads, the Fade was too long especially when you consider how long you spent locked in that tower and it's not really moving the story forwards. Deep Roads however was full of lore and you got to feel just how much a threat the Dark Spawn were, what was lacking was 'break points' taking the long segments and making them a bit more bite sized, I'm thinking more how Noveria was in Mass Effect, or KOTOR.

With DA2 you can pick it up, play it and put it down, but I think that it went too far in trying to remove some of the endless length from Origins, it gave the breakpoints that stops you from feeling the length of the area/map/quest quite so much, but then it also took away the length too.

I hate to admit it but a patched bug free DA2 is probably more replayable that Origins because you can play it in such a casual bite sized way, but I'd still spend more time playing Origins due to the huge problems with DA2, the lack of choice, the lack of scope, the reused maps and combat that went WAY too far (yes speed up the combat of Origins a bit, but to take away the tactical element, or rather benifits and need of tactics and drop waves of enemies on us in every damn fight... while combat may have been slow and long it's now tedious, slow in a different way and actually boring)
If they broke up the long segments of Origins like they did in DA2, ME1 and KOTOR, gave it voice acting like DA2 (although the dialogue wheel used in DA2 needs alot of work as somehow it's worse than what you have in Mass Effect)  I'd not stop playing Origins.
The voice acting for me is a reason I'd replay DA2, which is odd as my fav BioWare game and the one I replayed the most (until I upgraded my comp to the point it wouldn't play it again) was/is KOTOR, lacks a voiced PC but is perfect in every single way as the mix of game elements is exactly right with one of the best stories in a game and handled brilliantly.

So my thought is that they are just as replayable as each other in their own different ways, DA2 needs alot of work but when it gets there, if they make the needed changes, it would probably edge it.
Until then I will replay ME1&2 for the 7th-8th time and long of playing KOTOR again.

[Judge585]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

It seems your delusions have clouded your ability to form a rational thought. I doubt you could even fathom the differences between attempt and intent at your current level. I must say your obsession with me becoming your mirror is far from flattering. I suggest you seek professional help before your id is lost to ego as your mental capacity continues to diminish.

I am curious since it’s clear that you have shown trollish behaviour, I find quite hypocritical that you haven’t taken a fine tooth comb through your post and located your own errors. Don’t worry, I will not point them out since it’s a tactic that you rely on and is quite beneath me.

Dumbed Down, does describe you aptly but stop being so hard on yourself. You don’t need to add another complex to your already long list of mental problems.  As I have stated many times I understand the challenges you are facing but you really need to understand that the only person here scared of having his opinion changed is yourself. It’s a shame that you prefer to be close minded but to pretend that people are trying to force you to change your outlook on DA2 is quite preposterous. Let me make it clear, the only person that can change your opinion is yourself but it seems you like to imagine those around you as the Bad Guy. I truly feel sorry for you as one human being to another.

I can understand that you are tired of mirroring my responses, I have tried many times to let you know that I do not desire that role but you seem inclined to place yourself in front of it. The first step is the most difficult, but the ones that follow can be very liberating. Have the courage to go forward and learn from this experience. You have derailed this thread long enough with your inadequacies. I look forward to discussing the merits and flaws of DA2 in the future when you are done crucifying yourself.

A more concise post from you with a lot of generalities thrown around this time by. I guess material is not easy to come by when you can't simply take my argument/phrase, meld it into a bizarre metaphor, and apply it to me, right? Still a lot of repetition for padding, though. I get it, you like the "mirroring" term a lot and ambiguous terms like "inadequacies." I'll give you a new one: you are an impotent debater. Use that next time. It has more impact. Here, I'll be generous and save you the trouble with your comeback version: "You make impotent arguments that you cannot back up with facts, so you should stop thrashing around like a monkey in heat." That sounds about right for your nonsensical level of metaphor with animals?

There is actually a tactic that is beneath you? News to me, because up to this point, you've used ad hominem attacks, smugness, fabrications, false accusations, assumptions, straw man arguments, and self-righteous chidings. More like you can't point to any facts in particular, so you take the cop out route because you know I'll hammer you back into your troll hole. And don't tell me your earlier formatting skills did not reek of amateurism (which you had to fix to your own admission and embarrassment), or how it wasn't irony to the the highest degree that you made a mistake in the very sentence that was meant to attack another's intelligence.

You really want to go down the obsession path? Let me refresh your memory again: you were the one who first quoted me and replied to me personally with a straw argument on gameplay mechanics with the opinion of your imaginary friend as some sort of conclusive proof. The board history doesn't obfuscate the facts, unlike you. Then, you proceeded to reply to my responses mostly within an hour of mine, some even shorter. You want to talk about obsessed? Give your refresh button a break, man!

And who nominated you as the board psychiatrist to toss around clinical terms like delusional, complex, obsessiveness, id/ego, as well as tossing out first step advice on liberation and experience? (fyi: rhetorical question) Yeah, I'm really going to take advice from a random individual (giving you more credit than you deserve) in a video game discussion forum. Said individual couldn't for the the life of him string together a coherent thought without repeating himself or use zoo animals as metaphors, sometimes both. Hope your sarcasm detector went through the roof there, because it often fails. I realize that this playing psychiatrist shtick is the last thing you're holding on as an imitated comeback to my advice about your personal failing at logic and reading, amongst many other things. I'm simply saying this repetition of yours has been beaten to death. Come up with some fresh material (go dig through your college psychology textbooks which I'm sure you have lying around), or you should take your own advice and move on.

Thanks for the offer, but I don't look forward to discussing anything with you. I've had quite enough of your trolling with animal metaphors and random parables that do not apply. Next thing I know, I'll be writing some issue about the ME3 release date and you're going to talk about giraffe chomping on leaves or some such nonsense.

Modifié par Judge585, 10 avril 2011 - 01:19 .

[Serpieri Nei]

Judge585 wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

It seems your delusions have clouded your ability to form a rational thought. I doubt you could even fathom the differences between attempt and intent at your current level. I must say your obsession with me becoming your mirror is far from flattering. I suggest you seek professional help before your id is lost to ego as your mental capacity continues to diminish.

I am curious since it’s clear that you have shown trollish behaviour, I find quite hypocritical that you haven’t taken a fine tooth comb through your post and located your own errors. Don’t worry, I will not point them out since it’s a tactic that you rely on and is quite beneath me.

Dumbed Down, does describe you aptly but stop being so hard on yourself. You don’t need to add another complex to your already long list of mental problems.  As I have stated many times I understand the challenges you are facing but you really need to understand that the only person here scared of having his opinion changed is yourself. It’s a shame that you prefer to be close minded but to pretend that people are trying to force you to change your outlook on DA2 is quite preposterous. Let me make it clear, the only person that can change your opinion is yourself but it seems you like to imagine those around you as the Bad Guy. I truly feel sorry for you as one human being to another.

I can understand that you are tired of mirroring my responses, I have tried many times to let you know that I do not desire that role but you seem inclined to place yourself in front of it. The first step is the most difficult, but the ones that follow can be very liberating. Have the courage to go forward and learn from this experience. You have derailed this thread long enough with your inadequacies. I look forward to discussing the merits and flaws of DA2 in the future when you are done crucifying yourself.

A more concise post from you with a lot of generalities thrown around this time by. I guess material is not easy to come by when you can't simply take my argument/phrase, meld it into a bizarre metaphor, and apply it to me, right? Still a lot of repetition for padding, though. I get it, you like the "mirroring" term a lot and ambiguous terms like "inadequacies." I'll give you a new one: you are an impotent debater. Use that next time. It has more impact. Here, I'll be generous and save you the trouble with your comeback version: "You make impotent arguments that you cannot back up with facts, so you should stop thrashing around like a monkey in heat." That sounds about right for your nonsensical level of metaphor with animals?

There is actually a tactic that is beneath you? News to me, because up to this point, you've used ad hominem attacks, smugness, fabrications, false accusations, assumptions, straw man arguments, and self-righteous chidings. More like you can't point to any facts in particular, so you take the cop out route because you know I'll hammer you back into your troll hole. And don't tell me your earlier formatting skills did not reek of amateurism (which you had to fix to your own admission and embarrassment), or how it wasn't irony to the the highest degree that you made a mistake in the very sentence that was meant to attack another's intelligence.

You really want to go down the obsession path? Let me refresh your memory again: you were the one who first quoted me and replied to me personally with a straw argument on gameplay mechanics with the opinion of your imaginary friend as some sort of conclusive proof. The board history doesn't obfuscate the facts, unlike you. Then, you proceeded to reply to my responses mostly within an hour of mine, some even shorter. You want to talk about obsessed? Give your refresh button a break, man!

And who nominated you as the board psychiatrist to toss around clinical terms like delusional, complex, obsessiveness, id/ego, as well as tossing out first step advice on liberation and experience? (fyi: rhetorical question) Yeah, I'm really going to take advice from a random individual (giving you more credit than you deserve) in a video game discussion forum. Said individual couldn't for the the life of him string together a coherent thought without repeating himself or use zoo animals as metaphors, sometimes both. Hope your sarcasm detector went through the roof there, because it often fails. I realize that this playing psychiatrist shtick is the last thing you're holding on as an imitated comeback to my advice about your personal failing at logic and reading, amongst many other things. I'm simply saying this repetition of yours has been beaten to death. Come up with some fresh material (go dig through your college psychology textbooks which I'm sure you have lying around), or you should take your own advice and move on.

Thanks for the offer, but I don't look forward to discussing anything with you. I've had quite enough of your trolling with animal metaphors and random parables that do not apply. Next thing I know, I'll be writing some issue about the ME3 release date and you're going to talk about giraffe chomping on leaves or some such nonsense.

It seems you continue to fall back to your defence mechanism lashing out blindly trying to score a hit but the only person in front of you is the mirror which you can’t step away from. Sadly all this will accomplish is a lot of broken glass and a shattered ego. However, I’s surprised by your use of impotent it seems you weren’t ready to go down that road. There may be hope for you after all.
 
We shall now add reading comprehension to your list of failures. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish by continually showing your lack of understanding. I believe you get an unhealthy satisfaction from it. You should start small with what strengths you have and build them up from there. Once you have emerged from the dark hole that you have buried yourself in, only then can you start to truly appreciate the world around you. And most important, don’t shy away the hole is no place for anybody even for an unfortunate person as yourself. You should not have to develop a self flaw for every one that DA2 has. It’s beneath you to share this since the item in discussion lacks life.
 
Your obsession is not healthy, and your fabrications are below my notice. Continue on your course to self destruction if you find solace in it. And I will continue to offer you aid and a way out that you are desperately seeking. Your continued talks have shown that you have found much truth in what I have said and continue to strive to understand what has eluded you since you began your lofty crusade. 
 
As I stated earlier, you should really follow your own advice. Until you do, don’t expect others to do what you are not capable of yourself. I’m more inclined to believe that you ran out of anything credible to say, it’s just sad that you still have not reached that conclusion on your own. At this point, it would be a benefit to stop adding to your list of delusions but with someone like yourself in their current mental state they would believe that had somehow miraculously won and would only surprised by the following rebuttal.  

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 10 avril 2011 - 09:30 .

[Mavkiel]

Are you two married? Normally see bickering like this with old married couples.

[Kileyan]

Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

To me DA2 is more replayable too, and this is partly due to how it's divided into smaller "bits" unlike DA:O where you had to spend hours and hours on the Fade/Deep Roads, which only got more tiring on subsequent playthroughs.

And guys... you don't need to quote whole pages you know?

The Fade never took me more than an hour. My first time in the Deep Roads took two hours.

The more playthroughs I did, the shorter time it took...not longer.  They were too dumbed down in DA:2

How were the DR dumbed down? You go in, kill enemies & loot. Same as in DAO. Only, thank God, without the excessive and pointless padding.

It is a subjective thing, maybe dumbed down is the wrong phrasing to use.

In my case, I always pictured the Deep Roads a very long trek, deep into the bowels of the earth, weeks of travel with dangers, Darkspawn, unspeakable natural creatures of the deep, etc.

It is a fine line to be too long and just perfect I guess:)

In this case, we were teleported to action scenes twice, then exited the Deep Roads.  I guess I am saying, the Deep Roads really didn't feel anymore forboding or epic as the sewers.

Again, I understand Bioware can't win, some like the long Deep Roads other like the instant success 15 minute maps. Find that middle is hard, but Bioware does tend to swing in extreme directions with changes.

Modifié par Kileyan, 10 avril 2011 - 04:26 .

[Melca36]

Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

To me DA2 is more replayable too, and this is partly due to how it's divided into smaller "bits" unlike DA:O where you had to spend hours and hours on the Fade/Deep Roads, which only got more tiring on subsequent playthroughs.

And guys... you don't need to quote whole pages you know?

The Fade never took me more than an hour. My first time in the Deep Roads took two hours.

The more playthroughs I did, the shorter time it took...not longer.  They were too dumbed down in DA:2

With all due respect, we will just have to agree to disagree.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

I think a great many gamers want things handed to them without having to work for it.

Like
I said in another post, I don't hate the game but my 7/8 score would
have been significiantly higher had they not streamlined the game too
much.   

DA:2 had a fabulous story but I feel my intelligence has been insulted with the streamlined game mechanics.

How
were the DR dumbed down? You go in, kill enemies & loot. Same as in
DAO. Only, thank God, without the excessive and pointless padding.

I hope with DA:3 they bring back some of the elements of Origins they took away or at least come up with a fair compromise instead of catering to one fan base.

Modifié par Melca36, 10 avril 2011 - 04:30 .

[Kileyan]

Mavkiel wrote...

Are you two married? Normally see bickering like this with old married couples.

Seriously take this to private messages or send each other your phone numbers.

[TheJist]

Kileyan wrote...

Mavkiel wrote...

Are you two married? Normally see bickering like this with old married couples.

Seriously take this to private messages or send each other your phone numbers.

I think it is funny neither of them are really discussing the game anymore they are simply trying to tear at each others arguments.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Mezinger wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...

I agree with this so much. 

Origins story is not complex, it's really cliché and nothing new. For me it stopped being fun after playing though it once whereas DA2 is still fun for me. 

Are you suggesting that DA2's story is less cliche than DA? If so, I don't see that... could you explain?

By virtue of Bioware focusing on the "Hero's story" in all of their games, they have a defacto cliche story / plot line.

But Hawke isn't really the hero. At least not the hero that ends up saving the world from the big bad evil and that is very refreshing for me. For me, DAO story is much more cliche and there was never any surprises along the way. I could figure out pretty much how it all was going to play out. In DA2 I kept being surprised, by followers, quests and people around Kirkwall. 

[Nassegris]

TheJist wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

Mavkiel wrote...

Are you two married? Normally see bickering like this with old married couples.

Seriously take this to private messages or send each other your phone numbers.

I think it is funny neither of them are really discussing the game anymore they are simply trying to tear at each others arguments.

Generally speaking, when a conversation is brought down to the "you're stupid" and "no, you're stupider!" type of arguments (regardless of whether they're wrapped up in prettier and longer words), you might as well break out the measuring tapes, haha.

Private messages do seem more appropriate here. I'm not really interested in their measurements.

For the record (regarding the topic), I've jazzed myself up enough for a second playthrough and I'm having more fun now than I thought I would, I still don't think I'll go through it 8 times like DA:O but it's not as bad as I convinced myself into thinking it was.

[hwlrmnky]

Hey WingsandRings, I just want to let you know that I identify with your post. I don't dread the long dungeon crawls of DA:O as much as you do, but I totally see your point. I've completed DA:O&A only twice but I've started it about 10 times, often losing steam after Redcliffe. I am having an absolute blast replaying DA2. In fact, I really didn't appreciate many of the differences between O and 2 until my second playthrough of the sequel when I saw what a really beautiful job they did of linking the cause-and-effect of the two games together.

Cheers!

[Judge585]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

It seems you continue to fall back to your defence mechanism lashing out blindly trying to score a hit but the only person in front of you is the mirror which you can’t step away from. Sadly all this will accomplish is a lot of broken glass and a shattered ego. However, I’s surprised by your use of impotent it seems you weren’t ready to go down that road. There may be hope for you after all.
 
We shall now add reading comprehension to your list of failures. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish by continually showing your lack of understanding. I believe you get an unhealthy satisfaction from it. You should start small with what strengths you have and build them up from there. Once you have emerged from the dark hole that you have buried yourself in, only then can you start to truly appreciate the world around you. And most important, don’t shy away the hole is no place for anybody even for an unfortunate person as yourself. You should not have to develop a self flaw for every one that DA2 has. It’s beneath you to share this since the item in discussion lacks life.
 
Your obsession is not healthy, and your fabrications are below my notice. Continue on your course to self destruction if you find solace in it. And I will continue to offer you aid and a way out that you are desperately seeking. Your continued talks have shown that you have found much truth in what I have said and continue to strive to understand what has eluded you since you began your lofty crusade. 
 
As I stated earlier, you should really follow your own advice. Until you do, don’t expect others to do what you are not capable of yourself. I’m more inclined to believe that you ran out of anything credible to say, it’s just sad that you still have not reached that conclusion on your own. At this point, it would be a benefit to stop adding to your list of delusions but with someone like yourself in their current mental state they would believe that had somehow miraculously won and would only surprised by the following rebuttal.  

Did I just read quotes from Stewart Smalley or some awful fortune cookie collection? Looks like you spewed that litany of pseudo-religious, life-affirming psychobabble with no actual substance behind it.

With the formalities out of the way, did you wait up late for me, my dear? I took a long break on purpose. Ok, not really, I actually had plans most of the night, but I probably would've taken a long break just to spite you. I know you were waiting, and I take delight in knowing that you've been squirming there with anticipation for me all night. I hope you didn't break your refresh button in the process.

As a consideration for others, let's bring this to a private avenue of discussion, yeah? I'll even let you dress you up as your favorite farm animal, be it a dog or a duck (or a troll), for pleasure.

Hope the rest of you appreciate this, because I have to deal with this psycho now.

A special thanks to Mavkiel and Kileyan for the inspiration to this post.

[Mezinger]

Yellow Words wrote...

Mezinger wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...

I agree with this so much. 

Origins story is not complex, it's really cliché and nothing new. For me it stopped being fun after playing though it once whereas DA2 is still fun for me. 

Are you suggesting that DA2's story is less cliche than DA? If so, I don't see that... could you explain?

By virtue of Bioware focusing on the "Hero's story" in all of their games, they have a defacto cliche story / plot line.

But Hawke isn't really the hero. At least not the hero that ends up saving the world from the big bad evil and that is very refreshing for me. For me, DAO story is much more cliche and there was never any surprises along the way. I could figure out pretty much how it all was going to play out. In DA2 I kept being surprised, by followers, quests and people around Kirkwall. 

Interesting, so you're kind of in the anti-hero camp... I can see that perspective... but I guess this is a different strokes for different folks type of thing; there are lots of people who feel like this game is missing a chapter and that the un-resolved ending is a bit of a rip off... besides from that the refuge to hero (champion) is still pretty cliche. 

The dispute between the templars and the chantry is perhaps a little grey(er) than the rise of the Archdemon as a story backdrop / arching plot.... so maybe that's what you mean / like about it... 

I personally like being the knight in shinning armour and saving the day... although I still see DA2 as the Hero's story there's no ability to "save the day" which to me makes it less replay-able. 

[KristofCoulson]

Reading this and I find myself wanting to start another playthrough of Origins. (Just finished BG2: TOB again )

[Cutlasskiwi]

Mezinger wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...

Mezinger wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...

I agree with this so much. 

Origins story is not complex, it's really cliché and nothing new. For me it stopped being fun after playing though it once whereas DA2 is still fun for me. 

Are you suggesting that DA2's story is less cliche than DA? If so, I don't see that... could you explain?

By virtue of Bioware focusing on the "Hero's story" in all of their games, they have a defacto cliche story / plot line.

But Hawke isn't really the hero. At least not the hero that ends up saving the world from the big bad evil and that is very refreshing for me. For me, DAO story is much more cliche and there was never any surprises along the way. I could figure out pretty much how it all was going to play out. In DA2 I kept being surprised, by followers, quests and people around Kirkwall. 

Interesting, so you're kind of in the anti-hero camp... I can see that perspective... but I guess this is a different strokes for different folks type of thing; there are lots of people who feel like this game is missing a chapter and that the un-resolved ending is a bit of a rip off... besides from that the refuge to hero (champion) is still pretty cliche. 

The dispute between the templars and the chantry is perhaps a little grey(er) than the rise of the Archdemon as a story backdrop / arching plot.... so maybe that's what you mean / like about it... 

I personally like being the knight in shinning armour and saving the day... although I still see DA2 as the Hero's story there's no ability to "save the day" which to me makes it less replay-able. 

And I understand why people would prefer that over the story in DA2 but for me, Origins got boring after I finished it once. I still played through a few more times but it was tedious and I almost had to force myself through the game. I much prefer the story in DA2. And yeah, from refuge to hero is pretty cliche too. I'm not denying that. 

I like that DA2 doesn't have a well painted villain that needs to be killed. It's not obvious much other than the raising tension between the two fractions. I only wish that DA2 would have had a few more months in dev time.

[Jarlaxley1]

I have this to say about da2. While i liked it i was mostly unimpressed with it in general. with da:o you had full access to the char gen, with da2 they took the RP out of the G so to speak very linear and follow this . i do agree that there is no true hard choises to make in the game other than "what weapon will i kill merideth and orsino with today".

On the whole it had a replay value of 3(once for each class) maybe one more time after i find a mod i like or something but that is iffy.

Reguardles if ME3 is butchered like da2 was i doubt ill buy another BioWare game again after that. they are trying to make rpg's for people who dont really know the consept of the phrase and are putting to much of the fps element into everything like that is what the masess want.

Eather way sence i got off topic; da2 to me was not even close to da:o in funability and replay.

Just wish i could have more choises as to what i could be in the game besides human human or human
kinda a huge bummer when they take the roll play out of char gen.

[Mavkiel]

Jarlaxley1 wrote...

I have this to say about da2. While i liked it i was mostly unimpressed with it in general. with da:o you had full access to the char gen, with da2 they took the RP out of the G so to speak very linear and follow this . i do agree that there is no true hard choises to make in the game other than "what weapon will i kill merideth and orsino with today".

On the whole it had a replay value of 3(once for each class) maybe one more time after i find a mod i like or something but that is iffy.

Reguardles if ME3 is butchered like da2 was i doubt ill buy another BioWare game again after that. they are trying to make rpg's for people who dont really know the consept of the phrase and are putting to much of the fps element into everything like that is what the masess want.

Eather way sence i got off topic; da2 to me was not even close to da:o in funability and replay.

Just wish i could have more choises as to what i could be in the game besides human human or human
kinda a huge bummer when they take the roll play out of char gen.

You might have better luck making your point with a wee bit of spell checking. All sorts of automated utilities for that these days. Also, if one catches on fire, they roll on the ground. If one is playing a rpg, they are "role" playing that game.

Normally not a big stickler for spelling, but your post is rife with mistakes.
Edit: I am just trying to be helpful incase english is not your first language! :-)

Modifié par Mavkiel, 10 avril 2011 - 07:51 .

[Serpieri Nei]

Judge585 wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

It seems you continue to fall back to your defence mechanism lashing out blindly trying to score a hit but the only person in front of you is the mirror which you can’t step away from. Sadly all this will accomplish is a lot of broken glass and a shattered ego. However, I’s surprised by your use of impotent it seems you weren’t ready to go down that road. There may be hope for you after all.
 
We shall now add reading comprehension to your list of failures. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish by continually showing your lack of understanding. I believe you get an unhealthy satisfaction from it. You should start small with what strengths you have and build them up from there. Once you have emerged from the dark hole that you have buried yourself in, only then can you start to truly appreciate the world around you. And most important, don’t shy away the hole is no place for anybody even for an unfortunate person as yourself. You should not have to develop a self flaw for every one that DA2 has. It’s beneath you to share this since the item in discussion lacks life.
 
Your obsession is not healthy, and your fabrications are below my notice. Continue on your course to self destruction if you find solace in it. And I will continue to offer you aid and a way out that you are desperately seeking. Your continued talks have shown that you have found much truth in what I have said and continue to strive to understand what has eluded you since you began your lofty crusade. 
 
As I stated earlier, you should really follow your own advice. Until you do, don’t expect others to do what you are not capable of yourself. I’m more inclined to believe that you ran out of anything credible to say, it’s just sad that you still have not reached that conclusion on your own. At this point, it would be a benefit to stop adding to your list of delusions but with someone like yourself in their current mental state they would believe that had somehow miraculously won and would only surprised by the following rebuttal.  

Did I just read quotes from Stewart Smalley or some awful fortune cookie collection? Looks like you spewed that litany of pseudo-religious, life-affirming psychobabble with no actual substance behind it.

With the formalities out of the way, did you wait up late for me, my dear? I took a long break on purpose. Ok, not really, I actually had plans most of the night, but I probably would've taken a long break just to spite you. I know you were waiting, and I take delight in knowing that you've been squirming there with anticipation for me all night. I hope you didn't break your refresh button in the process.

As a consideration for others, let's bring this to a private avenue of discussion, yeah? I'll even let you dress you up as your favorite farm animal, be it a dog or a duck (or a troll), for pleasure.

Hope the rest of you appreciate this, because I have to deal with this psycho now.

A special thanks to Mavkiel and Kileyan for the inspiration to this post.

Another deflection, isn't it time you took a good long look at yourself and contact a psychiatrist to discuss your fetishes on top of your failures.

[Nyuneko]

I agree up to the point that DA:O's dungeons were filled with nothing but fights after fights; instead of being confined to one area fighting waves after waves, we simply fight waves after waves as we travel down the never-ending corridor of emptiness and when-is-this-gonna-end-kinda-despair.

But... having only beaten DA2 once, I must say the ending was a tad lacking, I didn't like how it just ended with "Yeah, they all parted ways", I wanna know what everyone is doing after they parted, if they wanted to stay with the "Varric retelling the tale" kinda feel, then it could have been "Last I heard" "From my sources", Varric is a well-connected man, for maker's sake... But of course, I fear the real reason is really to avoid the <spoiler> being resurrected and such mishap that happend when they wrote DA2: so they can bring back anyone they feel like.

So, I guess I will just replay DA2 as each class once, and leave it. You could literally tried all 3 classes in 1 playthrough anyway, all you'd be missing would be Hawke-specialisations, but then, most of those are avaliable for the companions anyway(different tree, rearranged, etc). DA:O, on the other hand, I might replay it a 5th time if I could be bothered to get Awakening.

[Jman5]

I am 100% with the OP on this point. Despite the many problems DA2 suffers from, I never felt trapped in a dungeon like I did in Origins.

Origins was a very good game, but the biggest drawback were the handful of really long dungeons. The fact that skip dungeon mods were as popular as they were speaks volumes to the problem.

In my mind, the Deep Roads section of DA2 was perfectly spaced out and split into two manageable parts. It was still long enough to feel like an important part of the game, but not too long that I dreaded running through it.

[Radwar]

Played DAO 4 times, barely made it through 1 playthrough of DA2.

[Mezinger]

Yellow Words wrote...
And I understand why people would prefer that over the story in DA2 but for me, Origins got boring after I finished it once. I still played through a few more times but it was tedious and I almost had to force myself through the game. I much prefer the story in DA2. And yeah, from refuge to hero is pretty cliche too. I'm not denying that. 

I like that DA2 doesn't have a well painted villain that needs to be killed. It's not obvious much other than the raising tension between the two fractions. I only wish that DA2 would have had a few more months in dev time.

Clearly I hear and agree with the "few more months in dev time."... I don't know how to accurately summarize my thoughts on the story differences... Though I never choose the options, I find in Origins that it's refreshing that I could side with the werewolves, templars, golems etc, and that would make at least a cosmetic difference in the final show down... different, refreshing, intriguing, and worthy of another play through (even though as I said I never played a "dark" hero in all my play throughs)... also the choice of going to Orzamaar, the circle, or Redcliffe first is refreshing... worst of everything IMO is the railroad of DA2... the choices don't seem as meaningful, and the the story does feel to me ever so much more linear.