337 réponses à ce sujet

[tiernanls]

dear lord people. adds are in fact a staple in lots of rpg's. not every rpg of course, but then lots of rpg's are more akin to reading a book than playing a game. at the end of the day it just makes it harder. when i hear the word tedious what i really hear is "too damn hard". and if thats the case turn down the difficulty, and if you cant button mash your way through this game on casual you should just put your controller down and stick to pencil and paper.

as far as immersion or realism is concerned cry me a river. youre playing a game that has dragons, elves, and dwarves. every romance interest is bi-sexual. the cave in the bone pit manages to not change at all over 6 yrs but still manages to hide spiders, dragons, dragonlings, etc, etc even though you have explored the whole of it every time you have gone in. not to mention it just so happens to look like every damn cave around kirkwall. so crying "unrealistic" is pretty ridiculous. lol. of course its unrealistic. its a game. there are demons and talking animals. if you can get immersion past these things than i highly doubt people dropping out of thing air is a deal breaker. you dont like it. its too hard for you. we get it.

[Shazzie]

Waves do make sense in certain situations. Just as a static number of enemies makes sense in (probably the vast majority of) most cases. Sometimes you might know prior to combat which one is fitting... but you shouldn't ALWAYS know. Knowing that there will be waves Every. Single. Time. is just as annoying and just as unsurprising as knowing there never will be. Mix it up! Surprise me. Don't bore me with repetitious combat.

If waves are a part of the combat, and it's not enemies being summoned from thin air on purpose, then please make sure the enemies don't APPEAR out of thin air. Hide their spawn point behind something, or around a corner, anything but 'dropping from the ceiling onto my head' or 'suddenly appearing right next to me in an otherwise empty room'. Even if the wave came out of a dead-end room I'd already cleared, it would be better than having them spawn in the middle of my party.

Modifié par Shazzie, 01 avril 2011 - 03:05 .

[Nuematic]

TongueDar wrote...

I'm with the OP on this. The waves have cheapened the game for me and are not what I expected after playing Origins.

@AustinKain,

The post is fair when one takes into account the gameplay of DA:O, which did not suffer from this arcade-ish mechanic.

I take it some people don't like change even in world of warcraft you have waves that come out of nowhere or sit hidden in stealth and don't appear until after you start fighting.

Things do change and you learn to adapt at least so far they have not changed play style per expansion or patch like WoW has anyway.

[Zjarcal]

Tigress M wrote...

I'm in the mix it up crowd. I like being ambushed, so to speak, once in awhile, but I also like seeing a group of baddies off in the distance and pulling out my trusty bow or staff and picking them off one by one. I sorely missed the latter in DA2.

Same here.

It's ok for some battles to bring in reinforcements and to be ambushed every once in a while. Still, most battles should have every enemy visible right from the start. Having enemies appear out of thin air isn't nice.

[Spartansfan8888]

Zjarcal wrote...

Tigress M wrote...

I'm in the mix it up crowd. I like being ambushed, so to speak, once in awhile, but I also like seeing a group of baddies off in the distance and pulling out my trusty bow or staff and picking them off one by one. I sorely missed the latter in DA2.

Same here.

It's ok for some battles to bring in reinforcements and to be ambushed every once in a while. Still, most battles should have every enemy visible right from the start. Having enemies appear out of thin air isn't nice.

Agreed. Sometimes waves make sense and sometimes they don't.

[steelfire_dragon]

the waves in town would only make sense if they were to be droppping down from the tops of the buildings... however realistically, it doesnt as in the rw, doing that would break bones with a chance of ending up on 1000 ways to die, on SPike.

it is the main thing that I dislike about da2...

[Cody211282]

Saboera wrote...

Diversity is the key for me, I don't mind having waves per say but for the love of god, don't throw them at me in every single freaking encounters. It should have been a special mechanic that was used in special moments.

Like how they did it in DA:O, yet another instance of them taking a good thing and ruining it.

[PirateT138]

If they're absolutely intent on doing waves make them pop sooner, or be more continuous.

I turn on all my combat ability and turn into McDeathMachine3000 only to wait around for 5 seconds between waves, it's silly.

I'd rather just not have them, but if you're going to do them, make it better.

[Ronin2006]

tiernanls wrote...

dear lord people. adds are in fact a staple in lots of rpg's. not every rpg of course, but then lots of rpg's are more akin to reading a book than playing a game. at the end of the day it just makes it harder. when i hear the word tedious what i really hear is "too damn hard". and if thats the case turn down the difficulty, and if you cant button mash your way through this game on casual you should just put your controller down and stick to pencil and paper.

as far as immersion or realism is concerned cry me a river. youre playing a game that has dragons, elves, and dwarves. every romance interest is bi-sexual. the cave in the bone pit manages to not change at all over 6 yrs but still manages to hide spiders, dragons, dragonlings, etc, etc even though you have explored the whole of it every time you have gone in. not to mention it just so happens to look like every damn cave around kirkwall. so crying "unrealistic" is pretty ridiculous. lol. of course its unrealistic. its a game. there are demons and talking animals. if you can get immersion past these things than i highly doubt people dropping out of thing air is a deal breaker. you dont like it. its too hard for you. we get it.

Hmm... It seems you don't quite grasp the concept of context.  Yes, not everything is going to be "realistic" in a game that is held in a high fantasy setting.  But the context is what is killing the immersion in this game.  Dragons, elves and dwarves are not 'unrealistic' given the context and setting of this game, in fact they fit right in with the rest of the story and actually enhance the realism.  However, enemies spawning out of thin air is stupid and unrealistic in almost any context and smacks of lazy game design and corner cutting.  It doesn't fit in with the rest of the game and story and that is why it is unrealistic.

Also, I think you need to read a lot of the comments carefully.  People aren't complaining that the game is too hard.  (In fact, I've read a lot of comments where people say that this game is too easy and still complain about the re-spawning)  The complaints about the waves of enemies has absolutely nothing to do with the difficulty of this game.

Modifié par Ronin2006, 01 avril 2011 - 04:51 .

[Swordfishtrombone]

Please DO use waves, but implement them better.

The waves solved the serious lag issues DA:O had in big battles, without having to limit the size of battles. The only problem with it was enemies dropping out of thin air, instead of, say, running into the battle field from behind corners and/or inside buildings. The enemies should spawn out of sight, and run into the battle.

Also, it was annoying that enemies would ALSO drop in out of sight, behind corners, and STAY THERE untill you went to look for them. This meant that several quests in the "blind alleys", for example, where you had to kill every enemy, had you running through the alleys several times to get them all, rather than the enemy coming to find you.

If these problems are fixed, then the enemy waves is a great idea that'll work much better than having all the enemy on the battle field at the same time, causing strain on the system, and laggy combat.

[TJSolo]

Nuematic wrote...

TongueDar wrote...

I'm with the OP on this. The waves have cheapened the game for me and are not what I expected after playing Origins.

@AustinKain,

The post is fair when one takes into account the gameplay of DA:O, which did not suffer from this arcade-ish mechanic.

I take it some people don't like change even in world of warcraft you have waves that come out of nowhere or sit hidden in stealth and don't appear until after you start fighting.

Things do change and you learn to adapt at least so far they have not changed play style per expansion or patch like WoW has anyway.

WoW waves depends on the encounter and mechanic of certain instances. The waves in DA2 are the norm(adapting is simple because it waves are commonplace) which quickly becomes repetitive and tedious.

[Dethares]

Waves are okay. Like many have said though, " not every encounter". And no more ninja respawns..... the whole rogue thing i'm not sure about cuz there like F'n night crawlers.

[SIx_Foot_Imp]

I think the idea behind the waves was a way for your character to feel very powerful( by the end of the game you have killed an entire population of a small city ), and an easy way to make every combat balanced. no matter if you have an all dps Party that can take out 5 guys in the first round or a bunch of tanks and healers the difficulty is the same. Finally they also made fights a lot longer adding precious game play time to a game shorter than its predecessor. I could totally see a bunch of thugs ambushing you in a city but after the 10th time fifty guys appeared out of completely empty streets i started to wonder if hawk was a little dimwitted with tactics I mean unless everyone is constantly rolling 20's for stealth than Hawke must just not be looking for them. At some point he really should have figure out how to spot an ambush. on of the other things was the jumping from roof tops. this was really cool the first few times but then you realise that these guy are jumping from three story roofs with out taking any damage and that at any one point in time there are at least 100 hundred people just sitting on roofs in Kirkwall. When asked about these problems BW has repeatedly said the combat never makes complete story logic, just like we constantly use spells but no can figure out were mages. Clearly they don't think that this is a problem and its a really easy tool for them to use so I doubt they will fix it in DA3.

[back pain]

I though the waves were good, but a bit overused. For example the street gang fights really pissed me off because there was no end to those ****s, but I'm kind of nitpicking here.

[skyrend]

In my top 3 in the list of problems with this game. Just another symptom of the laziness that went into designing and executing DA2.

[Killer3000ad]

The only thing waves thought me in DA2 was to bait enemies out of the killzone room and fight them elsewhere so that I don't get overwhelmed by the subsequent waves. Not much of a challenge once you figure where the fight's gonna start.

[Wintermist]

Ronin2006 wrote...

tiernanls wrote...

dear
lord people. adds are in fact a staple in lots of rpg's. not every rpg
of course, but then lots of rpg's are more akin to reading a book than
playing a game. at the end of the day it just makes it harder. when i
hear the word tedious what i really hear is "too damn hard". and if
thats the case turn down the difficulty, and if you cant button mash
your way through this game on casual you should just put your controller
down and stick to pencil and paper.

as far as immersion or
realism is concerned cry me a river. youre playing a game that has
dragons, elves, and dwarves. every romance interest is bi-sexual. the
cave in the bone pit manages to not change at all over 6 yrs but still
manages to hide spiders, dragons, dragonlings, etc, etc even though you
have explored the whole of it every time you have gone in. not to
mention it just so happens to look like every damn cave around kirkwall.
so crying "unrealistic" is pretty ridiculous. lol. of course its
unrealistic. its a game. there are demons and talking animals. if you
can get immersion past these things than i highly doubt people dropping
out of thing air is a deal breaker. you dont like it. its too hard for
you. we get it.

Hmm... It seems you don't quite grasp
the concept of context.  Yes, not everything is going to be "realistic"
in a game that is held in a high fantasy setting.  But the context is
what is killing the immersion in this game.  Dragons, elves and dwarves
are not 'unrealistic' given the context and setting of this game, in
fact they fit right in with the rest of the story and actually enhance
the realism.  However, enemies spawning out of thin air is stupid and
unrealistic in almost any context and smacks of lazy game design and
corner cutting.  It doesn't fit in with the rest of the game and story
and that is why it is unrealistic.

Also, I think you need to read
a lot of the comments carefully.  People aren't complaining that the
game is too hard.  (In fact, I've read a lot of comments where people
say that this game is too easy and still complain about the
re-spawning)  The complaints about the waves of enemies has absolutely
nothing to do with the difficulty of this game.

Well said!

Modifié par Wintermist, 01 avril 2011 - 01:45 .

[Kimberly Shaw]

/signed

The waves in this game are ridiculous, not fun, and immersion breaking. I really enjoyed how things were done in DA:O in terms of enemies, battle placement and waves being rare and interesting (more monsters when you fight the Brood Mother, makes sense since she makes them---the 3rd round of ninjas dropping from the sky like rain in high town when I've already slaughtered 50 of them, not so much).

And to the "tiernanls " poster at the top of page 2, you sir are missing the whole point of this thread and fail at reading comprehension 101. No one is complaining about waves being difficult, we just think they are overused, cheaply cut-cornerly implemented, and immersion breaking due to the teleportation effect.

[TUHD]

/signed

Whereas DA:O made me curse at times at waves, it was only because I may have seen it coming due to the nature of the upcoming fight. In such a case, you've got only yourself to blame in case there are deaths in the party, and to compliment the devs for the nice ambush they programmed in.

However, in DA2 it is: 'Oh, a group together... let's prepare for an ambush. Wait, why are my mages and rangers running into the fight at point-blank??!' The AI of the party totally sucks (even when you set the tactics right), and the waves aren't a surprise, AT ALL. Making you STILL micromanage everything out of frustration instead out of tactical need - the latter being the case in DA:O.

[Maverick827]

Keep the wave mechanic, but there definitely needs to be more variation: assassins should ambush you from stealth, not charge head first and then backstab you. Reinforcements should more often than not come from directions you have not yet been; being flanked from a one-way hall is rather ridiculous, but enemies appearing from side rooms or adjacent alleyways is fine. Maybe someone shouts "release the hounds" and opens a cage containing a ton of angry mabari.

The mechanic also needs to be used only when it would make sense for the enemy to have reinforcements. If you're fighting a known organization (mercenaries, guilds, etc.), then you shouldn't be surprised when reinforcements arrive. If you're fighting a blood mage, then it should come as no surprise when he summons some demons or raises some undead.

If your enemies really have no ties to anything that should give them access to large resources, however, then they should not have...access to large resources. I can recall a few times thinking to myself "why does this guy have a small army at his disposal?"

The mechanic itself is fine, but the implementation was obviously the result of experiment.

[Lord_Valandil]

The waves, recycled enemies and people falling from the sky...and then exploding were a deal breaker for me. It's just stupid. So, I agree with the OP.
Please, no more waves.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 01 avril 2011 - 02:12 .

[bzombo]

Wintermist wrote...

I'm begging on my knees, please don't use waves of enemies like you did in Dragon Age 2. I can accept demons and undead rising from the ground but the other constant waves coming from nowhere just ruined the experience. But even demons and undead warrants some type of summoner I think.

What are other players experiences with this?

i personally don't mind the waves. i find them more realistic. with the backlash against them, it wouldn't bother me to see them go, either. not a make or break thing for me. i would say that maybe they should be used more sparingly in da3. maybe undead, like you said, or maybe only certain darkspawn encounters or something. i don't know. not a huge deal to me.

[CloudOfShadows]

Please keep the waves.

I would much rather have bandits that waylay me keep calling for aid, rather than the bandits scale up in level with me so that they become ridicously powerful towards the end. Granted, currently it's both, so I'm not completely happy - but at least it's closer to what I want.

Please keep improving on the system, don't take it out.

[FaeQueenCory]

As long as it's done tastefully, as it was in Origins... Like the Broodmother... Y'know, where it makes sense. I wouldn't mind the waves of enemies continuing...
That being said, NO. Not for EVERY battle. That's just annoying and tedious and destroys any sort of strategy that can be implemented...
In conclusion: Do it where it makes sense, not everywhere.

[Galad22]

The waves just got tedious in like 2 hours.

It is to me most horrible game mechanics in this game, even more so when this game doesn't have much else.

So yeah, please don't use these parachute troops ever again.

Modifié par Galad22, 01 avril 2011 - 06:06 .