337 réponses à ce sujet

[Maconbar]

I enjoyed having the waves but think that they were used too many times.

[Yriss]

Maverick827 wrote...

Keep the wave mechanic, but there definitely needs to be more variation: assassins should ambush you from stealth, not charge head first and then backstab you. Reinforcements should more often than not come from directions you have not yet been; being flanked from a one-way hall is rather ridiculous, but enemies appearing from side rooms or adjacent alleyways is fine. Maybe someone shouts "release the hounds" and opens a cage containing a ton of angry mabari.

The mechanic also needs to be used only when it would make sense for the enemy to have reinforcements. If you're fighting a known organization (mercenaries, guilds, etc.), then you shouldn't be surprised when reinforcements arrive. If you're fighting a blood mage, then it should come as no surprise when he summons some demons or raises some undead.

If your enemies really have no ties to anything that should give them access to large resources, however, then they should not have...access to large resources. I can recall a few times thinking to myself "why does this guy have a small army at his disposal?"

The mechanic itself is fine, but the implementation was obviously the result of experiment.

I would vote for this instead of a blanket statement of "no waves".

The first paragraph contains really cool stuff, in my opinion. "Release the hounds!" Man, I'd love to hear that in a tough battle. The AI tweak to the assassins' strategy makes sense too.

[Taura-Tierno]

I agree with the above poster.

The wave mechanic in itself is not bad at all. It's just used way too often. Some of the encounters with waves were actually very well implemented in DA2, but they sort of disappear among the huge amount of encounters where it does not fit.

For instance, when invading a house that's the base of a criminal gang, I see no reason why reinforcement cannot arrive from other rooms and such. That's great, even expected. I have no trouble with enemies jumping down walls in the city either, for instance. It works, mostly. Ambush, anyone?

It's just that, when every encounter is like that it feels a bit ... overkill. It would've been much better if some encounters focused more on fewer, but stronger, enemies.

[astrallite]

Teleporting waves invalidate the codex.

The lore of the game is being disregarded completely for the sake of cheap ai challenges.

[Merci357]

Like others said already, I think the "wave" feature is a nice addition, when used in a few, selective fights. For example in some boss fights, or in an ambush. Though I'd prefer the waves jump down from ledges or run in from off screen, not warp in out of thin air.

That said, it's way overused in DA2, it's the exact opposite of fun for me. It's repetitive, boring and dull - and does nothing besides adding a grindy feel. Combat like that makes me wish there were this ridiculed "skip combat" button included, since I dreaded the 57th wave fight against unchallenging trash mobs.

Modifié par Merci357, 01 avril 2011 - 07:29 .

[Rhobert]

For me, the waves are symptomatic of the larger problem with this game, which is that there is just too much combat.

Obviously combat is important, and a big part of RPGs, but this game feels like nothing but combat, with very little role-playing in-between battles.

You basically just go to the next yellow triangle on the mini-map and get ready to fight the same battle, in the same setting, that you've fought a hundred times before.

[Galad22]

Rhobert wrote...

For me, the waves are symptomatic of the larger problem with this game, which is that there is just too much combat.

Obviously combat is important, and a big part of RPGs, but this game feels like nothing but combat, with very little role-playing in-between battles.

You basically just go to the next yellow triangle on the mini-map and get ready to fight the same battle, in the same setting, that you've fought a hundred times before.

I agree but those waves about triple the amount of combat this game has. It would help this quite a lot if those were removed. Obviously not anywhere near perfect but better.

[Johnsen1972]

waves popping out of nowhere kills the atmosphere.
I second that

[TJSolo]

CloudOfShadows wrote...

Please keep the waves.

I would much rather have bandits that waylay me keep calling for aid, rather than the bandits scale up in level with me so that they become ridicously powerful towards the end. Granted, currently it's both, so I'm not completely happy - but at least it's closer to what I want.

Please keep improving on the system, don't take it out.

So you would rather have both negatives in waves and scaling enemies instead of 1? I am certain that by defintion removing 1 negative is a direct improvement.

[tiernanls]

Ronin2006 wrote...

tiernanls wrote...

dear lord people. adds are in fact a staple in lots of rpg's. not every rpg of course, but then lots of rpg's are more akin to reading a book than playing a game. at the end of the day it just makes it harder. when i hear the word tedious what i really hear is "too damn hard". and if thats the case turn down the difficulty, and if you cant button mash your way through this game on casual you should just put your controller down and stick to pencil and paper.

as far as immersion or realism is concerned cry me a river. youre playing a game that has dragons, elves, and dwarves. every romance interest is bi-sexual. the cave in the bone pit manages to not change at all over 6 yrs but still manages to hide spiders, dragons, dragonlings, etc, etc even though you have explored the whole of it every time you have gone in. not to mention it just so happens to look like every damn cave around kirkwall. so crying "unrealistic" is pretty ridiculous. lol. of course its unrealistic. its a game. there are demons and talking animals. if you can get immersion past these things than i highly doubt people dropping out of thing air is a deal breaker. you dont like it. its too hard for you. we get it.

Hmm... It seems you don't quite grasp the concept of context.  Yes, not everything is going to be "realistic" in a game that is held in a high fantasy setting.  But the context is what is killing the immersion in this game.  Dragons, elves and dwarves are not 'unrealistic' given the context and setting of this game, in fact they fit right in with the rest of the story and actually enhance the realism.  However, enemies spawning out of thin air is stupid and unrealistic in almost any context and smacks of lazy game design and corner cutting.  It doesn't fit in with the rest of the game and story and that is why it is unrealistic.

Also, I think you need to read a lot of the comments carefully.  People aren't complaining that the game is too hard.  (In fact, I've read a lot of comments where people say that this game is too easy and still complain about the re-spawning)  The complaints about the waves of enemies has absolutely nothing to do with the difficulty of this game.

i completely grasp the notion of context you condescending ass.  its fine that you want everything to "feel" real in a fantasy setting.  but when you explore two caves accross the street from each other that are identical that to me is a much bigger afront to any kind of immersion.  if you can get over that, then your just swatting at flys when it comes to adds.  and the majority of the people that comeplain about adds on these boards BY FAR complain about them because of frustration and difficulty.  and the rest complain about it for the same reason but hide their difficulty with it behind a complaint about friggin immersion.  its sad.  bottom line is that if your own personal level of immersion can get past the fact that two caves sitting accross the road from each other are identical (an unbelievable impossibility) than whether or not a bandit jumps off an invisible clothsline to attack you or a demon appears out of thing air right beside you is quite small potatoes in what could effect your level of immersion. 

i love the adds.  it makes every encounter more difficult, and that makes it more fun to ME.  i loved origins and the story it offered, but combat wise?  it was just absolute cake with any mage in the game even on nightmare.  you could hit and run throughout the entire game with every party member down.  while there are lots of things about 2 i thought kinda sucked like the aforementioned generic environments, i thought the combat encounters were an improvement in every way as compared to origins.  they were more challenging, and they were anything but repetitive.  even the manner in which new enemies spawned was often unique based on the scenario.  

and i would love to hear you explain how adds that appear throughout the ENTIRE game dont fit in with said game, and how at the end of the day any combat encounter design doesnt fit in with the story.  if you can go through an entire game that is essentially about templars and mages and not one party member or npc ever notices that you yourself are a blood magic flinging devil mage than i find it really hard to believe the adds is what killed the immersion for anyone.  there are literally hundreds of examples throughout the game of breaking immersion, and imo anyone that touts the immersion argument for adds, which in my opinion is easily the least of the imersion breakers, are just having a hard time with them.  be honest with yourselves people.  you hate them cuz they make you die.  period.  end of story. 

[Lord Gremlin]

Well, it's mostly waves that turned combat into ****... Waves and bosses with so much health that I paused game, had some tea, and then continued chipping off huge health bar for 15 more minutes (Rock Wraith).

Just to be clear: I can tolerate flawed combat in DA game. I just hope it'll be less obnoxious in next game.

[Nurot]

Please don't remove the waves! They make the battles so much more fun. They keep the battles lasting longer (if all enemies spawned at once, I would feel overwhelmed) and I like how the battles suddenly changes. It really keeps you on your toes. I am actually disappointed by the battles where there are no waves or just a small one.

[Chuvvy]

Signed. This is the second time I've signed a nonexistent pension with in the last ten minutes.

[Kimberly Shaw]

be honest with yourselves people. you hate them cuz they make you die. period. end of story.

My DW Rogue Hawke has not been injured this playthorugh, so no, they don't make me die. Period. End of story. But I hate them "cuz" (sic) they phase in from thin air or drop from nothing or spawn out of nothing which is poorly executed; and because they happen every time I fight something which makes for repetitive encounters.

I truly enjoyed the static spawns in Origins, and choke points and knowing how many enemies I faced; and I truly enjoyed being surpised now and then when a special fight would have enemies come in waves as well (how cool was Red Cliff the night of the undead seige?)

[Daeion]

When waves are properly implemented into areas where they make sense, they can add to a story or game, but when every fight is a wave, even when it doesn't make sense, and the guys just magically materialize in thin air, it detracts from the game. In DA:O there were waves but they weren't overabundant, they were things like when you had to defend red cliff from the undead. In DA2 however they don't add anything to battles except to prolong them but they also don't make the fights any harder.

[tiernanls]

again, adds apawning out of thin air is much more believable in a fantasy context than two indentical caves. people who want to attack immersion have plenty of ammo in this game. that they choose to attack the immersion effect of adds says to me they find them too difficult. wah. cry me a river. the combat in this game was at times the far and away best feature about the game. a lot of the dialogue was great too, just way too often was the really good dialogue stuff you couldnt participate in. party members talking amongst themselves.

this game had a good story and great combat mechanics. if you want to attack the immersion of this game you have no further to look than the one staring at you the second you get off the boat. the never changing, unbelievably empty, unbelievably generic city and surrounding locations of kirkwall. that right there is the games biggest fault. when you want to sit around and swat at flies about what was easily one of the games greatest strengths using the immersion argument youre taking away from what the true faults of the game really were.

[Dagiz]

any one, who has the game, remember the waves of kobolds...or gibberlings in BG? waves have been there...that being said.

Keep the wave mechanic, but there definitely needs to be more variation: assassins should ambush you from stealth, not charge head first and then backstab you. Reinforcements should more often than not come from directions you have not yet been; being flanked from a one-way hall is rather ridiculous, but enemies appearing from side rooms or adjacent alleyways is fine. Maybe someone shouts "release the hounds" and opens a cage containing a ton of angry mabari.

The mechanic also needs to be used only when it would make sense for the enemy to have reinforcements. If you're fighting a known organization (mercenaries, guilds, etc.), then you shouldn't be surprised when reinforcements arrive. If you're fighting a blood mage, then it should come as no surprise when he summons some demons or raises some undead.

If your enemies really have no ties to anything that should give them access to large resources, however, then they should not have...access to large resources. I can recall a few times thinking to myself "why does this guy have a small army at his disposal?"

The mechanic itself is fine, but the implementation was obviously the result of experiment.

This. Implementation stunk.

Modifié par Dagiz, 01 avril 2011 - 09:08 .

[Capt. Kirrahe]

Yes please. Use the environment to bring new enemies to the fight, by all means. No more waves, though.

[The_FenixV]

Hum why problem with the waves? I mean sure they can get annoying but at least it wasn't like some combats in Origins, hell in Origins I'd kill an enemy, and another would pop out in my screen right in front of me and it wasn't even a rogue class enemy, I was like O_o when that happened. At least you see the waves coming, it's a bit realist when you are in Kirkwall because you see them jumping from the roofs.

[tiernanls]

Daeion wrote...

When waves are properly implemented into areas where they make sense, they can add to a story or game, but when every fight is a wave, even when it doesn't make sense, and the guys just magically materialize in thin air, it detracts from the game. In DA:O there were waves but they weren't overabundant, they were things like when you had to defend red cliff from the undead. In DA2 however they don't add anything to battles except to prolong them but they also don't make the fights any harder.

you cannot be playing this game on nightmare.  it makes it way harder.  nothing was more defeating to finally whittle down all the minor enemies and finally be able to turn your full attention on the assasin making your life hell only to see TWO more assasins run to his aid.  or to take down the final blood mage sapping your life only to have two elite rage demons pop up in his wake.  each wave in the game added an additional elite combatant, and if you didnt take down the original elite combatants first, you were suddenly engaging several more in addition to more ranged combatants.  the adds on nightmare took the difficulty of the game to another level, but also left each finished encounter with the sense that you had jsut done something challenging and difficult.  it was satisfying. 

the only case in which ill agree it was too much was because the loot sucked hard core throughout the entire game.  i wish there had been more decent items spread throughout the game on regular encounters. 

in the end the people that want to cry about this stuff will keep crying about it.  nothing i say will make a difference.  i just think that a great majority of the people who bought this game really enjoyed it and that the boards are filled with the extremely vocal minority that want to bash every facet of it.  most people who play dragon age as a series could care less about the lore or that there are books.  its a game.  they care if its fun.  not if it stays true to everything every little fantasy fanboy wants out of it.  i choose to speak for those still having fun and actually playing the game.  lol. 

[The_FenixV]

Filament wrote...

I thought Origins' method of using waves only when appropriate was much superior. Like the broodmother, the spider queen, the demons when closing the portal in Warden's Keep, etc.

The one with the broodmother didn't make sense, the broodmother used to be a dwarf. She is only supposed to 'spawn' Genlocks, not shrieks and Hurlocks either, just Genlocks, so Bioware didn't really stay true to their broodmother thing. Since a broodmother that was a qunari spawns Ogres, one that was human spawns the Hurlocks, one that was an elf spawns Shrieks and the dwarf one Genlocks like I said. Instead we saw Hurlocks and Shrieks. 

[TheJist]

The_FenixV wrote...

Filament wrote...

I thought Origins' method of using waves only when appropriate was much superior. Like the broodmother, the spider queen, the demons when closing the portal in Warden's Keep, etc.

The one with the broodmother didn't make sense, the broodmother used to be a dwarf. She is only supposed to 'spawn' Genlocks, not shrieks and Hurlocks either, just Genlocks, so Bioware didn't really stay true to their broodmother thing. Since a broodmother that was a qunari spawns Ogres, one that was human spawns the Hurlocks, one that was an elf spawns Shrieks and the dwarf one Genlocks like I said. Instead we saw Hurlocks and Shrieks. 

Still makes sense in the fact this was the darkroads and a broodmother was being attacked which would call any nearby dark spawn to aid her.

[The_FenixV]

TheJist wrote...

The_FenixV wrote...

Filament wrote...

I thought Origins' method of using waves only when appropriate was much superior. Like the broodmother, the spider queen, the demons when closing the portal in Warden's Keep, etc.

The one with the broodmother didn't make sense, the broodmother used to be a dwarf. She is only supposed to 'spawn' Genlocks, not shrieks and Hurlocks either, just Genlocks, so Bioware didn't really stay true to their broodmother thing. Since a broodmother that was a qunari spawns Ogres, one that was human spawns the Hurlocks, one that was an elf spawns Shrieks and the dwarf one Genlocks like I said. Instead we saw Hurlocks and Shrieks. 

Still makes sense in the fact this was the darkroads and a broodmother was being attacked which would call any nearby dark spawn to aid her.

Which doesn't really make sense, if they received the call they wouldn't pop out of nowhere, they would be coming from the way you came from and ambush or coming from the way you are supposed to go to and fight them. Instead they inexplicably pop out, some might think that the Darkspawn are like Kryptonians and come around in super speed or something or maybe flash hmm.. a Darksapwn with a flash costume, would actually be fun to see. To me they did the same mistake on the original game and on the second game, nothing can be perfect in video games. I still enjoyed both games.