337 réponses à ce sujet

[Kajan451]

Wintermist wrote...

The difficulty of the encounters is not what is in question here, but the fact that they completely ruined the immersion by coming from everywhere and in every fight.

Most annoying was the Qunari. Did they land with a whole invasion army? I mean, just taking Act 1 into consideration i killed almost 100 Qunari. And they were claimed to be a small "odd" bunch of Qunari who decided to go rogue.

So if those few Qunari i killed numbered in the hundred... how many qunari actually must have landed in Kirkwall? 10000? A whole invasion army? And they all fit on one ship? What was the size of that ship? An overcrowded aircarrier?


I didn't mind lots of Darkspawn charging at me during DA1... there was a whole invasion going on with tousands of darkspawn. But running through kirkwall at night and running into 4-5 Groups of Thiefs during the night hours, per Area... and each of these group numbers 10 plus 1 or 2 Reforcements of another 10 thieves? Did anyone bother to add this up beside me?

I mean seriously.. i ended up fighting over 400 Thieves in Kirkwall, in just one act.. 400... how do they even keep the city running with that amount of lowlife in the city being out and about, cutting throats. Thats a small army at least. Not accounting for all the thieves i have met during quests.. easily adding those numbers up to double the amount.. in just one act.

I can easily assume, by the end of Act 3 i would have killed every single Citizen in Kirkwall, just to supply for all the Rogues and Thieves i fought.

I mean i get it, its supposed to make Hawke seem heroic when his band of 4 slaughters through hundres of enemies .... but seriously.. it just kills the immersion, about as much as having people "jump down" in the middle of nowhere, making you wonder if they have hidden some invisible parachute or something.


Mass does not equal quality. And it certainly didn't make me forget how boring the surroundings where. Making me fight for every inch of the same dungeon in different variations, only serves to make me get familiar with every inch of those maps, making me much more aware of how they are being reused over and over and over and over again.

[NvVanity]

/Somewhat signed.

Waves make sense some times. Like when saving Saemus in Act 1 made sense as the bandits had reinforcements coming in. I found it a bit odd that every shade in the fade (hey it rhymes!) was personally coming out to attack me whenever I encountered some demons.

[Wintermist]

I'm thinking this might get modded as soon as people get the tools for it, atleast, I'm certainly hoping for a mod. The good thing about mods is that people who want to play with them can, those who're already happy don't have to use them. Go modders!

[Garki]

 /signed

Waves are fine for some fights as many have already said, but I feel the cheap way waves are implemented in DA2 is another symptom of EA's typical production values to cut development time.(like map reuse). If you dont mind that fine - but it spoils it for me. 

'Anders, wtf are you doing up here with me near this Mercenary Commander? Didn't I tell you to hang back there and heal?'

'Er, yeah. Sorry .. hey! You never gave Viconia this kind of abuse when she did it.'

'Well I was romancing her and she'd have cut my unmentionables off. Besides she was bugged, your AI is just fricked.'

'But in about two seconds there'll be yet another wave of men teleporting in all around us, so Im probably safer here anyway. Hah!'

'Touche, Anders, touche. Just don't expect a potion of Mythal when you die.'

  Its made sure I wont be buying dragon age 3 or any other bioware title until long after release - as DA2 has been such a let down. Like ME3 or SWTOR, which I was going to preorder as a matter of course. This is just my opinion, and it's based on my fear that now EA runs Bioware, this will be a trend in Bioware games. Hopefully that will prove to be incorrect.  DA2 has its moments, some very good points, but overall its a long fall from grace when compared to previous Bioware efforts.  
 

[tiernanls]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

tiernanls wrote...
holy **** you colossal ******. 

And reported. Why can't some people make their point without calling people "*******"?

I really hope you get banned from posting here.

congratulations.  i was banned for 24 hrs.  its a word.  i recognize biowares right to police their site for specific words they find offensive.   i really dont see how its any different than calling someone a moron, stupid, or an a-hole or the like.  its an insult.  its intent is to be insulting.  if bioware was going around issuing 24-hr bans for anyone who engaged in a personal attack i would understand.  but theyre not.  i think you would be hard pressed to find any differently abled person offended themselves by the word. some may even agree with my assesment of that particular poster.  either way i thinks it a little bit ridiculous how much people need for words to be policed.  everythign is objective.  if youre going to police one word that people find offensive you really should be policing anything anyone could find offensive.  otherwise you are simply not policing with an even hand. 

at the end of the day free speech is more about tolerating the worst things you can imagine a person saying more than it is saying what you want.  i personally feel its far more inappropriate to compare someone to hitler or his ****s than it is for someone to call another the "r" word, yet that is often given a pass.  never mind there are people on these boards who might have actual relatives who had to endure the holocaust. 

at the end of the day theyre all just words.  if you let any word effect you to that degree than perhaps its you that should take a step back from public forums and not me as suggested by the individual who issued my ban.  but thats just my two cents on the matter, which really im only giving because you chose to wear your emotions on your own sleeve.  in my lifetime i have only "reported" a post once.  and that was only to make a point about objectivity and perception which im sure flew right over that individuals head.  anyone at any point can choose to find something as over the line.  i prefer to live and let live.  because whether or not you may be viewed as some kind of champion of civility in this case can you honestly say you have never in your life EVER been guilty of the same in another regard? 

judge not less ye be judged yourself.  just saying. 

[Mavkiel]

Free speech? We are posting on the same forum no? Agreed to the same agreements for the privilege of posting here? Note the word privilege, not right.

[Giant ambush beetle]

*Signs petition*
I'm ok with wave attacks every now and then, its a valid battle strategy used to surprise the enemy, but in DA2 it was just completely silly, fresh reinforcement popping up right behind the back of my strategically positioned mage....several times in a single fight! What the hell? Where did they come from?
It just got really silly sometimes and completely screwed up my tactics with totally unfair methods. Its one of my biggest gripes in DA2, it really stands out.

Please, Bioware, the overuse of badly made wave attacks completely screwed up the combat, no more wave attacks in DA2 DLC and future DA games, ok? Good!

Another thing that really bothered me is that BW chose to use quantity instead of quality in fights, the combat was all about fighting armies of mediocre clones, I so wanted to fight another adventurer group that is matching mine, thats challenging and fun fight.

[JulianoV]

Why don't you guys like waves?

I find it super cool when my ranged characters die before I even realize what's going on because a wave came out of the blue with fresh aggro, most of the times on top of them. Besides, you gotta love the fact that the limiting camera makes it absolutely impossible to realize what's going on before it's too late. Besides, it would be a way of making too good use of the HOLD command. Therefore, instead of leaving them where they SHOULD be instead of running around the battlefield like confused rats, you'll be forced to have them killed, or else you'd have them killed.

I call it brilliant game design.

[neppakyo]

JulianoV wrote...

Why don't you guys like waves?

I find it super cool when my ranged characters die before I even realize what's going on because a wave came out of the blue with fresh aggro, most of the times on top of them. Besides, you gotta love the fact that the limiting camera makes it absolutely impossible to realize what's going on before it's too late. Besides, it would be a way of making too good use of the HOLD command. Therefore, instead of leaving them where they SHOULD be instead of running around the battlefield like confused rats, you'll be forced to have them killed, or else you'd have them killed.

I call it brilliant game design.

I sense much sarcasm in this one.

We approve.

[Giant ambush beetle]

Good post, fun to read and so true.

[Maverick827]

JulianoV wrote...

I find it super cool when my ranged characters die before I even realize what's going on

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the battle.

[tiernanls]

Mavkiel wrote...

Free speech? We are posting on the same forum no? Agreed to the same agreements for the privilege of posting here? Note the word privilege, not right.

oh i agree.  as i said i recognize the rights for bioware to police whatever they want.  i just think its a bit objective and is often not even handed. 

• No slander. Insults, language, belittling of others or anything else deemed offense will be deleted without warning if considered unacceptable by an official Moderator or member of BioWare/Electronic Arts staff. Content that is insulting to anyone based on gender, lifestyle, religion, ethic group, race etc. is unacceptable and will be deleted without warning. A person or persons found to repeatedly slander others may be banned from these forums at the discretion of the staff.
• No fighting, name calling, taunting or flame wars. There is no place for fighting and flaming others on these message boards. Disagreeing with other Community members is acceptable and understood, but actively fighting and/or flaming will not be tolerated. Topics that are designed to start a flame war (defined as abrasive and/or offensive argument that serves no purpose but to make people mad) or posts made that are discourteous and/or hostile to other Community members or the discussion at hand will be treated as Spam and deleted without warning. If someone acts in a hostile manner to you or to others, DO NOT engage a person or persons who is fighting. Contact staff or a volunteer moderator and let them handle the issue. What is considered fighting or flaming is up to the discretion of staff and volunteer moderators. A person or persons found to repeatedly fight or flame others may be banned from these forums at the discretion of the staff.
  
• Respect staff and/or moderator warnings or instructions. If you are instructed by BioWare or Electronic Arts staff or by forum moderators to modify your language, behavior or actions on the Social site, forums, or website, you must listen to the instructions. A person or persons found or judged to be ignoring these instructions may be banned from these forums at the discretion of the staff.
• We, BioWare staff, Electronic Arts staff, official Moderators, or appointed agents reserve the right to edit, delete, or ban any content found on these sites without warning.

these are the rules listed under the site rules that i believe apply to this scenario.  and honestly how often do you see " Insults, language, belittling of others or anything else deemed offense" on these forums in general?  thats a pretty broad brush to paint a rule with.  especially when it is completely objective as i said.  i just think it shoudl be acknowledge that there are things they are more likely to CHOOSE to censor, and that protecting individuals from " Insults, language, belittling of others or anything else deemed offense", is not at all what they intend to police.  if that were the case a LOT of posts would be deleted and there would be a LOT more 24-hr bans.  my ban wasnt even specifically acknowledged for my use of the r word.  i got banned for a "confrontational and vitriolic post ". 

now lets be honest... that particular phrase would apply to a great majority of the content found in just about every thread.  im not saying taht you shouldnt be offended by waht i said.  heck you can be offended by anythign you want.  im just saying the whole reporting process is ridiculous, and that the mods could generaly care less about any of these rules unless people are actively reporting them.  otherwise a great majority of all these threads SHOULD be deleted per site rules.  im not holding a grudge, nor do i particulary care about the ban.  i do think i should have been told specifically what was unacceptable, and i do believe i should have be warned of any specific words that are deemed offensive before any ban was imposed.  especially since hardly any of the site rules are enforced to begin with, and none of them list any specifically banned words. 

at the end of the day it is not difficult for me to never type that word again on these forums and leave it at that.  i do object to anyone getting self-rightous about the actual context and intent of what i was saying if they refuse to police other individuals who react in the same manner but with different words.  if bioware wants to ban me from the forums because of it than thats there right. 

i do find great irony in the fact that a LOT of people accuse the mods of showing favoritism in regards to deleting bioware bashing threads, when i was given a 24-hr ban for essentially arguing that the game is actually pretty sweet in an overly-feverent manner.  so you can be all rest assured that bioware could actually care less about whether or not you are arguing for or agaisnt the game.  lol. 

[JulianoV]

Maverick827 wrote...

JulianoV wrote...

I find it super cool when my ranged characters die before I even realize what's going on

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the battle.

Perhaps I should play it like chess too. I've been doing the tactival RPG thing for a looooong time, and this is the most restrictive camera I've ever had. I know how vital pausing is, and I even got away without it for a long while with a two handed warrior, but it's very annoying to pause at all times just to check on anyone that's not directly near you. In which case they'd probably die at your first Mighty Blow.

Yeah, I most definitely can go by the character portraits health bar or keep the camera focusing the bearded face of my two warrior. Is that optimal? Absolutely not. Why was the optimal solution removed entirely? I absolutely do not know.

I did finish the game on Nightmare, and it was a chore. Replacing your entire party and re-establishing aggro whenever a new wave comes around means paultry DPS for a significant while of adaptation. This means less stuff dying. Which means more damage on you and your team. Specially when you take into account how absolutely cruel ranged enemies and ninjas are.

I don't want to sound like a ******, and this is a honest, curious question, but have you played it on Nightmare for its entirety? If so, I really commend your patience and skill when it comes to re-organizing your battle plan. I know I had trouble with it, both when it comes to realizing there's some new kids on the block with fresh aggro as you're focused in one character with a close-up camera and when it comes to re-balancing aggro while not sacrificing DPS too much.

[Rann]

Shortly before DA2 was released, I read an interview of one of the devs on the team. (I've been trying to find the link, but have so far failed to do so -- my apologies.) He was talking about the fine line that you have to walk when creating a fantasy game, and what he said was something like "with fantasy, you're already stretching the credibility of the story, so you have to be careful that whatever you do is not only internally self-consistent but that generally speaking everything conforms to the player's sense of 'normal' beyond the specific fantasy elements you are using." (That is a total paraphrase; like I say, I can't find the original link and it's been several weeks since I read it.)

I'd say it's absolutely true. I can suspend disbelief and say "OK, this guy can shoot fire out of his fingers, because that's in-line with the general magic trope." Magic 101, that's fine. I cannot, however, suspend disbelief on endless baddies materializing in front of me, because mentally I then have to believe the following sorts of things:

- Teleportation is actually possible in the DA setting, something that was explicitly denied in DA:O.
- Baddies can drop 20 feet to the ground in front of me (sometimes from the blue sky) and survive without even twisting an ankle, despite ample evidence that other laws of (non-magic) physics are generally in play, with some trope exceptions involving swinging large swords and fine dexterity in heavy armor, and the new (debatable) exceptions involving the Good Guys being able to leap about like fleas.
- 5% of Kirkwall must be on the payroll of some thug organization. I mean, how many bodies did you leave in the streets? About 300, maybe? More? (And nary a guard around...)

If reinforcements run out of the nearest tavern when one of the baddies shouts "Hey, Rube," I have no problem with that, as long as the implication isn't that 20 baddies in some supposedly secret organization routinely chill out in public places, and as long as it's a rare event to make it a bit special. But credibility is already stretched too thin to have people popping out of thin air all the time. (And yes, I know Varric is telling the story, but you can stretch that excuse to include anything, which makes it not much of an excuse at all -- why not give Hawke laser vision in that case, fer-cryin-out-loud?. Ultimately, it's *Bioware* that's telling a story.)

[skyrend]

JulianoV wrote...

Why don't you guys like waves?

I find it super cool when my ranged characters die before I even realize what's going on because a wave came out of the blue with fresh aggro, most of the times on top of them. Besides, you gotta love the fact that the limiting camera makes it absolutely impossible to realize what's going on before it's too late. Besides, it would be a way of making too good use of the HOLD command. Therefore, instead of leaving them where they SHOULD be instead of running around the battlefield like confused rats, you'll be forced to have them killed, or else you'd have them killed.

I call it brilliant game design.

Wait was this sarcastic?  Text is such a poor medium for sarcasm.

-Mike Laidlaw

[Maverick827]

JulianoV wrote...

I don't want to sound like a ******, and this is a honest, curious question, but have you played it on Nightmare for its entirety? If so, I really commend your patience and skill when it comes to re-organizing your battle plan. I know I had trouble with it, both when it comes to realizing there's some new kids on the block with fresh aggro as you're focused in one character with a close-up camera and when it comes to re-balancing aggro while not sacrificing DPS too much.

I cheated my way through the final encounter because my friend wanted to talk about the ending and I didn't want it spoiled, so I'd say I played 95% on Nightmare.

The only encounter that really felt "unfair" as far as placement goes is (to avoid spoilers) one where you emerge from a cave and are attacked immediately; you are fighting in a narrow pathway which opens up a bit farther ahead, but you are likely dealing with enemies within said confined corridor initially.

The wave that spawns here is placed right in front of the exit out of which you just left, more than likely a foot away from your ranged party members. I found that I had to run everyone through the first wall of enemies and around a corner to make this encounter feasible, and that was a bit odd, but other than that I've always found reasonable solutions to whatever was thrown at me.

[MikeP999]

How about where the enemies spawn from a Rift or Portal etc. Slap a story around it ..and have the bad guys drop out of the sky 'in style'. I'm sure they could design something that wouldn't look like a Star Trek teleport.
I didn't mind at all actually, however unrealistic it was, it managed to keep me on my toes.

Having bad guys pop out of doors, trapdoors etc would look cool but too predictable hence easier.

[Nooneyouknow13]

Medhia Nox wrote...

The waves were just so tedious after a while.

I don't mind a few encounters (there was a spider matriarch in Origins that had spiders in waves) - but the whole game was just a drag.

I'll agree that it got tedious in a few areas, but for some of the boss fights, such as Xebenkerk it made sense and made me completely alter my normal game plan, and I kind of liked it when the thugs dropped in via ropes in the city encounters.

Modifié par Nooneyouknow13, 06 avril 2011 - 05:56 .

[Wintermist]

Nooneyouknow13 wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

The waves were just so tedious after a while.

I don't mind a few encounters (there was a spider matriarch in Origins that had spiders in waves) - but the whole game was just a drag.

I'll agree that it got tedious in a few areas, but for some of the boss fights, such as Xebenkerk it made sense and made me completely alter my normal game plan, and I kind of liked it when the thugs dropped in via ropes in the city encounters.

Yeah I guess that is the biggest problem, they used it way too much so that the novelty of a fight supposed to be harder went away. Basically all fights was the same.

[wright1978]

I'm happy with the waves as they do add a different element to strategies during fights. However i do think they could do with tweaking so that they spawn more organically and not teleport. All the mysterious doors which you can't open could have been used for this, or out in the city street they spawn from the nearest doorway.

[Killer3000ad]

My issue is that they used waves in EVERY fight. Lets take DA:O, it had waves in a few instances, like the bridge fight and broodmother in the Deep Roads and the end game battle with the archdemon. It was properly used where it made sense. But DA2 jsut tosses waves and waves at you in every single encounter, and slaughtering them got tedious and boring. The situation gets worse in Kirkwall when every new romp in each act to Darktown, Lowtown and night Hightown resulted in a fight around every corner, almost as if Bioware thought some gamers would get bored if there wasn't a fight every five minutes. The entire thing smacks of a poor attempt to emulate hack-and-slash games like God of War and Ninja Gaiden.

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 06 avril 2011 - 12:22 .

[Stick668]

Anders: "I almost killed a girl."
Varric: "You've killed 254 by my last count. Plus about 500 men, a few dozen giant spiders and at least two demons."

So, we have two main types of stances here:

1) "Wave mechanic is by definition bad." (Bases for this argument seem to range from "back in my day, we could count the enemies, make plans and proceed" to "oh my god, pandering to players of games that are not the games that I enjoy". Which might not be a lot of range, come to think of it.)

2) "Wave mechanic could've been implemented better." (Arguments range from "not used everywhere" to "just don't spawn stuff on top of my poor mage".)

I'm in group two, if I have to be in one of them. I rarely saw things appear out of thin air during my first playthrough. (I was in maximum-tactics, minimal-pausing, direct-control-dual-stabby mode and rather enjoyed playing Left4Kirkwall. As in, "spot Special, slice it up right quick before there are party-wrecking shenanigans.")

Yeah, when you play a Mage it becomes a bit more obvious, but I still don't get the whole Sky Is Falling reaction some people have. It's one way of doing it. Sure, I'd like all the spawns to happen out of sight. (Or via rappelling or whatnot.) Still, I found it a nice change of pace and hugely preferrable to pouring all the enemy hitpoints into five or six guys.

Modifié par Stick668, 06 avril 2011 - 05:47 .

[Teh Blasta]

TJSolo wrote...
You don't know crap about what somone else is doing or thinking if that person is not speaking up for themselves or pretend that the only ones with complaints about the game are on this board only, it's stupid, self-righteous, and ignorant.

There is a very large silent majority that enjoy Dragon Age II, I being part of it. The reason you don't see them posting is becuase they don't feel like getting into a mindless debate with people just saying stupid random bull**** against a game they like. 90% of the complaints against DA2 could also be applied to Orgins, repeat enemies, slow story, graphics issues, bugs, fetch quests and worst of the ignorant hypocritical nonsense is the fact that Orgins is by far the most tedious BioWare game. Most of the people of these boards spend hours of their time ****ing at each other about nothing and people like me don't like to get invovled with it because we're too busy enjoying actual BioWare games to give half a **** about improving and streamlining boring elements of a game that is a single player variation of World of Warcraft. Call it heresy but Orgins is the only BioWare title I've ever had trouble finishing, not because of difficulty, but because of how ungodly slow paced it is. Both DA: Orgins and Dragon Age 2 have there problems in many ways but when it comes down to it I'll always choose the latest because I can manage beating the game in less than a week of time and I'm able to stay awake when playing it.

[Wishpig]

AustinKain wrote...

All i hear is waaaaa i dont know how to manage my mana/stamina while in combat to deal with the add ons that come along.

News flash but add ons have always been in rpg's true some may not have been as blatant or obvious as they are in DA2. People jumping off the roofs seems fair to me.

This is a legitmate dislike and not another "waaaaa" problem. It's stupid, plain and simple, and it's annoying.

Enemies jumping off roofs, spiders crawling down from ceilings, undead bursting from the ground. These make sense, these are all cool and add tension.

But DA2 CONSTANTLY throws waves at you. Having assassins drop down from roof tops occasionaly is great. Mixes stuff up. Having dumb Thugs swarm you and pop outta no where (even if you get the jump on them storywise) does NOT make sense, and it gets old real fast.

Not to mention sometimes enemies appear out of thin air.

For the most part this strikes me as lazy lazy lazy. Rather then have set up and unique feeling fights, you get these painfully repetitive battle agianst easy to kill and predictable swarms.

[Galad22]

NvVanity wrote...

/Somewhat signed.

Waves make sense some times. Like when saving Saemus in Act 1 made sense as the bandits had reinforcements coming in. I found it a bit odd that every shade in the fade (hey it rhymes!) was personally coming out to attack me whenever I encountered some demons.

This doesn't actually make much sense, they send hundred men to kill one qunari. That is really effective use of resources.