117 réponses à ce sujet

[archurban]

technically, Alpha relay was destroyed in DLC. but reapers still should find another gate. but it will be taken a long time according to Dr. Kenson. I guess that Shepard will get older, and die before reaper will come. then who will save Earth? nobody. it's inevitable. all humans will fall. if mass relay around Citadel can manually break channel to Solar system, reapers can't find the way to get to Earth. plus, we know how to destroy relay now. get some asteroids.

Modifié par archurban, 02 avril 2011 - 04:51 .

[SalsaDMA]

Question:
Does the Alpha Relay give access to Ilos?

[Aumata]

mcsupersport wrote...

Plan A was to send a signal to the Citadel and open the relay and destroy the leadership of the races and shut down all active relays isolating every system to itself.

Plan B was to get the Rachni to beat back the Citadel races and then open the relay and destroy the leadership of the races and shut down active relays isolating every system to itself.

Plan C was to use Saren and the Geth to figure out why the relay wouldn't respond to the signal in the first place and then let Sovereign in the Citadel so he can open the relay and kill the leadership of the races and shut down all active relays isolating every system to itself.

Plan D was to fly straight to the galaxy, and do it the hard way, maybe/probably facing united galactic fleets taking damage but still doing the job with the help of relays. Maybe even getting to the Citadel killing the leadership and shutting down the relays isolating systems to themselves.

Plan E to be determined.

The Suicide Mission was all a side mission in which the collectors found a workable race, tried out a bio-weapon(mordin's recruitment) and started work on a new reaper which by all information is what happens every cycle. Bio-races are harvested and "uplifted" into a new reaper making it there salvation through destruction.

As far as being obvious......
1) No one but reaper or collector could pass through the Omega 4 relay and survive.
2) Few knew Reapers were connected to the Collectors because most don't even know Reapers exist.
3) Colonies were taken from remote corners using almost complete stealth, causing no information to be left connecting them to the disappearances.


As a side note: there is no indication whether or not the Reapers need a starting relay to get to the Citadel, it may be such that they can self launch when going to the Citadel because it is a special kind of relay, due to it's size and control technology.

You sir, deserve a cookie.  Gues you answer OP question then.  I totally forgotten about those facts.  Well I remeber the Rachni, but forgotten that they tried to send a signal before hand.   Which means that Shepard just stumble upon the reapers doing their usual thing of killing and harvesting organics.

[Fixers0]

 Yes it does, and the plot Mass Effect 1.

I Really start thinking that the Developers had no idea what to do with Mass effect 2's plot, They keep saying that they planned the story ahead before starting with ME1, The problem is that i can't find Mass effect 2 place in the trilogy,

1. Introduction to the universe and the story.
2. ???
3. Conclusion of the story stared in part 1.

Mass effect 2 's goal the Human Reaper, leakes from all sides a wasn't even properly explained, and now with arrival we know that our main threat can just fly into the galaxy, what's the point of ME1 and ME2 then?

Modifié par Fixers0, 02 avril 2011 - 08:38 .

[KujiMuji]

The point of Mass Effect 1 was to stop a threat. If Saren did what he was doing, it would potentially destroy everything in the galaxy. So, you start on a wild goose-chase across the galaxy, while recruiting squad members along the way, which have an effect on the story (Liara for example). The purpose was to chase down Saren and save the galaxy from impending doom, from ancient bugs.

In Mass Effect 2, there is another threat that had to do with the one in Mass Effect 1, the evidence is found along the way, while you recruit a special task force with the purpose of stopping said threat. The fact that you stop this new threat saves human lives for being used [as fuel?].

You also realize that the threat you stopped on ME1, and partially at ME2 will come, and one of the paths they are taking is shown on the new DLC "Arrival". 
Arrival does not subvert the entire plot of ME2. Both issues are related, in terms of the chief antagonist of the series, but different in how it was done, planned/carried out.

If the issue is "Why are these ancient bugs planning things the way they are doing, instead of doing this and this?" then my answer would be "Who cares?" No one is perfect, sure, one thing might be more ideal than the other, but they weren't expecting some chain of events to actually happen (Wake up Lazarus!) and a human having the audacity, balls of steel, along with a group of people/aliens/computers to also tag along with him.
Hopefully this settles the whole argument. ("One can only dream...":whistle:)

Modifié par KujiMuji, 02 avril 2011 - 09:03 .

[Gill Kaiser]

You don't seem to understand how long it takes to travel throughout the galaxy without the use of Mass Relays. Just because the Reapers are "here", ie. in the Milky Way, doesn't mean squat without a way onto the relay network.The Reapers don't want the civilisations of the galaxy to have any time to prepare, and they certainly don't want their presence known years in advance of their arrival at the next closest relay.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 02 avril 2011 - 09:27 .

[stuboy52]

(Spoiler)i see people seem to think arrival and the idea the reapers can get to the milky anyway makes me2 pointless however conisder it the reapers tactical prospective if they travel across the galaxy they will be noticed and species will be more prepared meaning organics have a chance will with me2 building another reaper vanguard like sovereign it could try reopen the citadel relay so suprise would be regained so i see every point to me2 regardless.

on the point of time with alpha relay it can take the reapers anything between a few months to maybe a year were told by kenson and keep in mind we dont know all the tech the reapers may process as they will just go to the next relay so only a short time has been bought also to clarify according to what i hear and sensible me3 will be taking off straight after arrival dlc and those months gained before the invasion will probably involve shephard rallying races which is the main idea for me3.

[DxWill10]

agreed, ME2 was more about character development than main plot advancement. that's why I believe most of the squad will be returning as squad mates. They aren't going to do much character development in ME3 (that's what ME2 was for) they are going to concentrate on the main plot.

I hope you guys weren't bad at the game and got most of your squad killed

[filetemo]

I hope the reaper method to get to earth really makes sense, because since we've been told they are sleeping in dark space, that should mean it'll take them 10.000 years to reach earth at ftl speeds

[Halfdan The Menace]

Solar System is the closest star system to the Reapers? damn...

[mcsupersport]

Valmarn wrote...





You make some very good points, though I would like to point out that it doesn't seem to happen every cycle, otherwise the Reapers would resemble Protheans. I would hypothesize that it happens every other cycle, or even every other other cycle. Between the cycles that the Reapers take a new form ("Rebirth Cycles"), they enslave the various races to harvest the race(s) during the Rebirth Cycles.

I don't know if it is every cycle or every other, or every third.  I think it depends on the nature of the genetic material available to be used, ie they say the Protheans had a quad strand genetic material unlike any other in the Galaxy.  The very oddness may have been the factor that stopped them from being used, which may have been a fairly rare or common occurance.  The fact they could make a human reaper indicates that this cycle one will be made and it will take a vast majority of the human population to do it.  

Did any of you read the CDN just before Arrival???  Did you understand the importance of the combined fleet manuvers??  Did you understand the importance of Hackett withdrawing objections to the Turians increasing fleet dreadnoughts??  Every Citadel race that can is building MASSIVE fleets to fight a war, nominally the Batarians but the information about the Reapers is out there, refer to Mordin recruitement end dialog about mind control with his student, and realize the Citadel races are preparring for war against the Reapers.  

Everyone here says Soverign took out the entire fleet at the Citadel in ME1 and that isn't exactly true, he took out the fleet in a surprise attack with HUGE NUMBERS OF GETH SHIPS AIDING HIM.  How many of the Citadel fleets were ready to be attacked, and remember the history of our world on surprise attacks and their effectiveness.  The Reapers prefer to attack isolated systems, shut off from resupply, or other fleets support.  By shutting down the relays the Reapers only have to fight a small portion of the enemy fleet at any one time, and they are using most/all of their fleet.  You can almost guarentee victory if you can fight 1/20th of a countries army with your entire army in any battle, if your army is bigger than the divided portion of the army you are facing(assumig similar tech level).  Plus after many years without support or resupply many armies would be depleted when they are faced, so that makes them even worse, which is the whole reason the Reapers want to get to the Citadel and shut down the relays.  In this cycle, the relays are open, so they will be facing huge numbers of ships wherever they go, plus those ships will be at full power and being resupplied.  If the Reapers take 200 years to Reape, how many more ships could be built by the far off Factories of the Council during that time with all relays active??

[mcsupersport]

filetemo wrote...

I hope the reaper method to get to earth really makes sense, because since we've been told they are sleeping in dark space, that should mean it'll take them 10.000 years to reach earth at ftl speeds

Dark Space is outside the Galaxy, doesn't mean it is 10,000 years away from the Galaxy and the closest relay, it just means outside the Galaxy.  They could easily park a few years out and wait for signal or fly to the closest relay and make the jumps using the relay network.  How many civilizations are actually going to leave the Galaxy when there are HUGE numbers of planets to explore in their Galaxy?  

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

play arrival after the SM... problem solved.

[Mr Zoat]

Bamboozalist wrote...
Hell it probably could have even been plan Q, hell during WW2 there were plans that were there incase the war continued for 20 more years. We might find out all the other crazy nonsensical plans the Reapers came up with "just incase" during ME3. I mean who is to day they don't have 85 back up plans? Especially with all their "You have changed nothing" from Harbinger.

Tell the Reapers... Plan Q blows...

I don't think that the human Reaper was a Nasara replacement because there wouldn't be any point in sending it to attack the Citadel.  Nasara's attack failed and the Citadel is likely to be better prepared for another attack.

[Fallingblack]

I didn't read every post in the thread, but Arrival was basically Mass Effect 1 in a nutshell. That's like saying ME1 subverts ME2's plot.

[cpt. awsome]

desonnac00 wrote...

I am gonna avoid any and all spoilers ofcourse, so read without worry.
Ok, so we all know the reapers are coming- They will be here by ME3.
Thus far it was possible that their speedy arrival is due to someone IN Milky way helping them, because otherwise ME1 and ME2 don't make much sense.
Because we still don't know how separated in time ME2 and ME3 It's safe to assume that the reapers arrive shortly after ME2(The gyus who've played Arrival are rising a brow- I'm just avoiding spoilers.).
That negates the entire plot of ME2 AND ME1.
Picture, for a moment, a Reaper- a THING as old as... the Galaxy for all we know. Countless Eons of existense.
Let's forget ME1 for a moment:

So the Reapers have no Mass Relay way in what do they do?
*ME2's ending* to save them who knows how much time in FTL travel from darkspace.
Safe to say that they began *ME2 ending* making their alternate way in 2 years ago to secure a way in. Without spoiling anything- They're using their enemies to do it- that is a liability.

BUT IF they'll just get here in 2 years- WHY BOTHER!?
What are two years for an ageless machine that just go on autopilot and "sleep"?
2 years!?
Why draw attention to yourself? Why risk losing assets(*ME2 ending*[If])? Why create such a liability as *ME2 ending*?
Did the reapers NOT KNOW that they'd be there 2 years later? And that their "speedy way in" would not be finished by then?*ME2 ending*
What the hell? How retarded ARE the reapers? ME2 was pointless? Shep dies in the begining and can die in the end(not spoilers- they're in the trailers[btw- STOP SPOILERS IN MARKETING!!!]) so it could have just as well been a dream sequence.
What the hell writers? 
Someone get them away from the desk!!!

its not as simple as you state it. first of all the reapers arent gods. atleast not for as far as we know. so they are both capable and will make mistakes. secondly they are not immortal. their origional plan is based around cutting off their enemies supply/communication and transport lines then destroying every system in the galaxy one by one. why ? becouse eventhough they are big and nasty. they still die if you shoot them long enough. if the entire galaxy gets time to rally up all their fleets the reapers could lose. would you take that risk ? wouldnt you think up a better plan then to just fly to your enemies. they shut down the mass relays to keep their enemy confused and unaware of whats happening. this give them the advantage. however if that plan fails they will surely have  a plan B *aka arrival* since that one failed aswell. theres not much left but to go head on travel there manually and triumph in battle.

my point beeing. they arent invicible infact im pretty sure they need these plans and stratergies to win against multiple enemies who will surely unite against them. 

[Phaedon]

Fixers0 wrote...

 Yes it does, and the plot Mass Effect 1.

I Really start thinking that the Developers had no idea what to do with Mass effect 2's plot, They keep saying that they planned the story ahead before starting with ME1, The problem is that i can't find Mass effect 2 place in the trilogy,

1. Introduction to the universe and the story.
2. ???
3. Conclusion of the story stared in part 1.

Mass effect 2 's goal the Human Reaper, leakes from all sides a wasn't even properly explained, and now with arrival we know that our main threat can just fly into the galaxy, what's the point of ME1 and ME2 then?

Mind giving an err reason as to why it does that?
Both Arrival and the Human Reaper...

[Valmarn]

mcsupersport wrote...

Valmarn wrote...





You make some very good points, though I would like to point out that it doesn't seem to happen every cycle, otherwise the Reapers would resemble Protheans. I would hypothesize that it happens every other cycle, or even every other other cycle. Between the cycles that the Reapers take a new form ("Rebirth Cycles"), they enslave the various races to harvest the race(s) during the Rebirth Cycles.

I don't know if it is every cycle or every other, or every third.  I think it depends on the nature of the genetic material available to be used, ie they say the Protheans had a quad strand genetic material unlike any other in the Galaxy.  The very oddness may have been the factor that stopped them from being used, which may have been a fairly rare or common occurance.  The fact they could make a human reaper indicates that this cycle one will be made and it will take a vast majority of the human population to do it.  

Did any of you read the CDN just before Arrival???  Did you understand the importance of the combined fleet manuvers??  Did you understand the importance of Hackett withdrawing objections to the Turians increasing fleet dreadnoughts??  Every Citadel race that can is building MASSIVE fleets to fight a war, nominally the Batarians but the information about the Reapers is out there, refer to Mordin recruitement end dialog about mind control with his student, and realize the Citadel races are preparring for war against the Reapers.  

Everyone here says Soverign took out the entire fleet at the Citadel in ME1 and that isn't exactly true, he took out the fleet in a surprise attack with HUGE NUMBERS OF GETH SHIPS AIDING HIM.  How many of the Citadel fleets were ready to be attacked, and remember the history of our world on surprise attacks and their effectiveness.  The Reapers prefer to attack isolated systems, shut off from resupply, or other fleets support.  By shutting down the relays the Reapers only have to fight a small portion of the enemy fleet at any one time, and they are using most/all of their fleet.  You can almost guarentee victory if you can fight 1/20th of a countries army with your entire army in any battle, if your army is bigger than the divided portion of the army you are facing(assumig similar tech level).  Plus after many years without support or resupply many armies would be depleted when they are faced, so that makes them even worse, which is the whole reason the Reapers want to get to the Citadel and shut down the relays.  In this cycle, the relays are open, so they will be facing huge numbers of ships wherever they go, plus those ships will be at full power and being resupplied.  If the Reapers take 200 years to Reape, how many more ships could be built by the far off Factories of the Council during that time with all relays active??

Well, let us hope that BioWare doesn't decide to take the Dragon Age 2 route, and turn Mass Effect 3 into a framed narrative...a 200-year-long framed narrative.

[Fixers0]

Phaedon wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

 Yes it does, and the plot Mass Effect 1.

I Really start thinking that the Developers had no idea what to do with Mass effect 2's plot, They keep saying that they planned the story ahead before starting with ME1, The problem is that i can't find Mass effect 2 place in the trilogy,



1. Introduction to the universe and the story.
2. ???
3. Conclusion of the story stared in part 1.

Mass effect 2 's goal the Human Reaper, leakes from all sides a wasn't even properly explained, and now with arrival we know that our main threat can just fly into the galaxy, what's the point of ME1 and ME2 then?

Mind giving an err reason as to why it does that?
Both Arrival and the Human Reaper...

maybe it's better this way.
Arrival makes both Sovereign and the Human Reaper obsolete, no that's true, we don't even now wha tpurpose the human Reaper serves in the story, so Arrival makes sovereign and the original Reaper plans obsolere, Apearantly the Reaper fleet can reach the Bahak system in just a few days meaning that there was no purpose for a citadel Relay.

[Phaedon]

Fixers0 wrote...
maybe it's better this way.
Arrival makes both Sovereign and the Human Reaper obsolete, no that's true, we don't even now wha tpurpose the human Reaper serves in the story, so Arrival makes sovereign and the original Reaper plans obsolere, Apearantly the Reaper fleet can reach the Bahak system in just a few days meaning that there was no purpose for a citadel Relay.

If you don't understand the purpose of the Human Reaper, then you didn't pay attention to ME2.

Which implies that you didn't pay attention to the ending, which explains the purpose of Arrival.

Modifié par Phaedon, 03 avril 2011 - 07:13 .

[CroGamer002]

^Are you sure you put right link?

[Drakron]

Fixers0 wrote...
Arrival makes both Sovereign and the Human Reaper obsolete, no that's true, we don't even now wha tpurpose the human Reaper serves in the story, so Arrival makes sovereign and the original Reaper plans obsolere, Apearantly the Reaper fleet can reach the Bahak system in just a few days meaning that there was no purpose for a citadel Relay.

Exactly.

Also thanks to ME2 we have a timeline, according to the hints the Rachni Wars were started by Sovereign and that was over 2100 years before Mass Effect 1 takes place,  that means Sovereign that I doubt started for the Lulz or because Mysterious Reapers are Mysterious but since he tried to activate the Citadel Dark Space Relay before.

As bad as the Human Reaper might look its possible to get a idea about why they gone with it, they are supposed to be stuck on Dark Space with no means of instant travel to the Milky Way Galaxy and so the Human Reaper would be simply Soverign replacement at opening the Citadel Dark Space Relay.

Arrival makes the Citadel Dark Space Relay pointless because they not only do not need to "find another way" but already had another way and simply were trolling Sovereign, there is no point to the Human Reaper in this case or if you play Arrival before the Final Mission then why is the Collectors still a issue? the Reapers HAVE arrived and instead of going around recruiting a crack team to take now the Collectors it would be better to prepare to fight the Reapers, you know ... THE REAL ENEMY! Take then down and the Collectors are nothing but Husks.

[Phaedon]

Mesina2 wrote...

^Are you sure you put right link?

Just the stupid bug that occurs if you don't remove the link from an url. Fixed now.

[Fixers0]

Phaedon wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...
maybe it's better this way.
Arrival makes both Sovereign and the Human Reaper obsolete, no that's true, we don't even now wha tpurpose the human Reaper serves in the story, so Arrival makes sovereign and the original Reaper plans obsolere, Apearantly the Reaper fleet can reach the Bahak system in just a few days meaning that there was no purpose for a citadel Relay.

http://social.biowar...ndex/6856955]If you don't understand the purpose of the Human Reaper, then you didn't pay attention to ME2.

Which implies that you didn't pay attention to the ending, which explains the purpose of Arrival.[/url]

Let's play arrival pre-Suicide mission.

Evident out of what, there was no expostion in the narative about what T-8000 is supposed to do, and even if it was so, i still would't have buyed it without proper explanation on the whole plan, even worse it would basicly make Mass Effect 2 have the exact same plot as its's predecesor,

Even with that aside, it would still not change the fact that the Reapers can just fly to bahak system and then move on to the rest of the galaxy.

[Phaedon]

Fixers0 wrote...
Let's play arrival pre-Suicide mission.

Evident out of what, there was no expostion in the narative about what T-8000 is supposed to do, and even if it was so, i still would't have buyed it without proper explanation on the whole plan, even worse it would basicly make Mass Effect 2 have the exact same plot as its's predecesor,

Even with that aside, it would still not change the fact that the Reapers can just fly to bahak system and then move on to the rest of the galaxy.

"You failed, we will find another way"

Umm okay

Even with that aside, it would still not change the fact that the Reapers can just fly to bahak system and then move on to the rest of the galaxy.

Yeah, the problem is, even with FTL engines, that would take years. There is a reason you can't just fly around unless it's a neighboring system, you know.