124 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

InvaderErl wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Tali found the Geth on a uncharted world,So she could have been a far shorter distance away from the citadel than Shepard arrived before Shepard and set up a meeting with Fist right away.

The Geth knew what happened on Eden Prime due to their instant nature of communication it is all damn convenient but not a plot hole.

Again, Wrex/Garrus outright say Tali arrived on the station a few days prior.

That's not a plot hole. It's a time skip.

BTW, what exactly has Wrex to say about Tali if you meet him before going after Fist?

[Yzzid]

I agree with Eain that the conduit is probably a plot hole in ME1. My personnal "in game" explanation is that reapers are methodical, and didn't want to launch an invasion without knowing what went wrong. And that was Sovereign downfall because it tipped Shepard off.

My personal "out of game" theory about what happened however is that the conduit originaly lead to a sealed off section of the citadel, only accessed by keepers. And that zone was a near release cut in the game content.

2 reasons :

The keepers have a tendency to clean up things on the citadel. Stands to reason that a prothean-built mass relay exit point on the presidium wouldn't survive a post reaper invasion clean up.

The mass relay fonction of the citadel had to be manually reactivated. It would be logical that those hidden controls would be in a zone never accessed by other species.

Of course, no proof one way or another, so I'll leave it at 'that's my opinion"

EDIT : In fact, I messed up withe Reason 2. Sorry. Sovereign intended to activate the relay himself so it COULD be done remotely once plugged into the citadel. The remote zone could however have to do with the keeper modification / keeper control of the citadel. And I stand by reason 1:ph34r:

Modifié par Yzzid, 01 avril 2011 - 02:24 .

[Kekkis]

If you think from Reapers point of view this is only one fight in their eternal harvesting cycle. Yes they could just storm the galaxy and ignore Citadel, but that is more dangerous and they could lose some Reapers. From our point of view they won and we lost, but in long term if Reapers keep loosing more of them, than they can build, their numbers keep dropping until there is none left. So Reapers just want to use their good old plan as long as they can.

If they go after Citadel now, they might be able to shut down the Mass Relay network, but they can´t be sure how many places are building or trying to build Reaper killer guns. Someone did that kind of thing 37 million years ago. When they hit Earth everyone will know what kind of things Reapers are and they are not just going to wait until their turn comes.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Eain wrote...

Why did Sovereign need Saren to find the Conduit?
There's no actual answer for this. They could've gone to find the Conduit after the invasion and guard the Citadel meanwhile. They could've just waited two years and invaded via the Alpha Relay and all other adjacent relays instead. The Reapers don't need to catch anyone offguard. Their technology is infinitely superior to that of the Citadel races.

Sovereign knew something was wrong since the citadel wasn't responding, He begins to suspect foul play but who.. the Younger races? - No he monitors their transmissions and there have been actually no mentioning of anybody finding or changing the citadel.

So it stands to reason the the Protheons are involved since the citadel worked at the last harvest, So if they Protheons somehow changed the citadel signal what else did they change? - Did they make the entire citadel into one big deathtrap for the reapers ..some last act of defiance before they perished?

This have to be uncovered before Sovereign can call the rest of the reaper fleet..and hey whats that the humans have found a Protheon beacon on Eden prime..let's get going.

Sovereign/Saren didn't know what the conduit was before reaching Ilos and when it showed up to be nothing but a backdoor then they moved.

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 01 avril 2011 - 02:26 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Eain wrote...

Why did Sovereign need Saren to find the Conduit?
There's no actual answer for this. They could've gone to find the Conduit after the invasion and guard the Citadel meanwhile. They could've just waited two years and invaded via the Alpha Relay and all other adjacent relays instead. The Reapers don't need to catch anyone offguard. Their technology is infinitely superior to that of the Citadel races.

Sovereign knew something was wrong since the citadel wasn't responding, He begins to suspect foul play

And stop.

Call back Harby:

"Hey, Bro, we got a problem. Citadel is f***ed up, you'll need to fly".

[Dominus]

Writing a piece of fiction that spans countless hours in length, and also happens to be 100% Plot-hole free?


Good luck with that.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Eain wrote...

Why did Sovereign need Saren to find the Conduit?
There's no actual answer for this. They could've gone to find the Conduit after the invasion and guard the Citadel meanwhile. They could've just waited two years and invaded via the Alpha Relay and all other adjacent relays instead. The Reapers don't need to catch anyone offguard. Their technology is infinitely superior to that of the Citadel races.

Sovereign knew something was wrong since the citadel wasn't responding, He begins to suspect foul play

And stop.

Call back Harby:

"Hey, Bro, we got a problem. Citadel is f***ed up, you'll need to fly".

Probably more like : "Harby somethings wrong, I'll follow up on some leads to see if i can fix it at my end -Standby-".

Sovereign - Boom-

Harby : "Alright boys lets get moving".

[Zulu_DFA]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Eain wrote...

Why did Sovereign need Saren to find the Conduit?
There's no actual answer for this. They could've gone to find the Conduit after the invasion and guard the Citadel meanwhile. They could've just waited two years and invaded via the Alpha Relay and all other adjacent relays instead. The Reapers don't need to catch anyone offguard. Their technology is infinitely superior to that of the Citadel races.

Sovereign knew something was wrong since the citadel wasn't responding, He begins to suspect foul play

And stop.

Call back Harby:

"Hey, Bro, we got a problem. Citadel is f***ed up, you'll need to fly".

Probably more like : "Harby somethings wrong, I'll follow up on some leads to see if i can fix it at my end -Standby-".
Sovereign - Boom-
Harby : "Alright boys lets get moving".

OK, I get it. Sovereign was a moron. Or simply was tired of immortality.

[SmokePants]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Call back Harby:

"Hey, Bro, we got a problem. Citadel is f***ed up, you'll need to fly".

"We're, like, immortal and ****. Take another crack at it, dude. I'm hitting the snooze bar."

[Whatever42]

Do people even try to follow the plot? Or is it the pin it up on a board, throw a dart and declare that whatever it hits is a plothole?

[Gill Kaiser]

Oh look, yet another person who seems to think that the Reapers were coming through the Alpha Relay in Arrival, rather than approaching it in FTL. The Alpha Relay in no way makes the citadel obsolete. It's just a regular relay, albeit one that has a slightly longer range than the norm. What makes it special is simply that it's the closest to the Reapers' hibernation spot, and thus their first access point to the relay network as they approach the galaxy without the use of the Citadel Relay.

[Devbo22]

Does anyone have a video or actual quote from where Garrus/Wrex say Tali arrived a few days before Shepard?

[Valmarn]

EternalPink wrote...

Saren was looking for more than just the conduit, he had to find the cypher first ( and we had to go find it as well ) to know where to look for the conduit.

As to the usefulness of the conduit itself, well sovereign needed a way to get to the citadel, the geth needed a way to get to the citadel.

The council tell us that they are all safe and well since all the routes to the citadel are blockaded by the fleet, now whether soverign and the geth could have just forced there way through any blockade to the citadel (assuming the currrent citadel races didn't know how to turn some relays off) is a possibility but virgil (thunderbird reference?) tells us that even sovereign can't fight everybody at once on his own so after running a few blockades ( assuming they are using dreadnoughts for these ) atttrition might have brought them down.

But ignoring that, lets say sovereign and the geth get to the citadel, sovereign has to manually activate the citadel since the proteans messed with the keepers and he needs saren to lock the other relays to prevent all the council races sending there fleets in (Joker, we are waiting at arcturus open the relay etc) and then the citadel arms to prevent sovereign getting attacked while he's busy activating the relay.

If it wasn't for Saren the council could have rushed every ship they own to the citadel so that as each reaper appeared there was a fleet of hundreds of ships to take a shot at it which would probably have been the best chance ever to wipe the reapers out and that comes with the big IF of them getting to the citadel.

Sovereign didn't need the Conduit to get to the Citadel. He arrives via the mass relay outside of the Citadel. Besides, even if he did need the Conduit to get there, what good would it be to a behemoth? The Conduit is deep underground, and it sends you to the Mass Relay "monument' inside the Citadel.

BTW, the name of the VI on Ilos is "Vigil," not "Virgil."

[Zulu_DFA]

Devbo22 wrote...

Does anyone have a video or actual quote from where Garrus/Wrex say Tali arrived a few days before Shepard?

In Garrus' scenario it's actually Dr. Michel, who says that Tali came to her for treatment "a few days ago".

[this isnt my name]

I know exactly what you mean OP, but good luck trying to proove yor argument here, people will not listen and then complain "STOP FINDING PLOT HOLES!".

But yeah MEs writing as just completely collapsed, it wasnt that good in ME1, but 2 is just adding to the trainwreck.
Just sit back and watch people defend bad writing, declare it the best in te industry, despite it being illogical.

[Valmarn]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Oh look, yet another person who seems to think that the Reapers were coming through the Alpha Relay in Arrival, rather than approaching it in FTL. The Alpha Relay in no way makes the citadel obsolete. It's just a regular relay, albeit one that has a slightly longer range than the norm. What makes it special is simply that it's the closest to the Reapers' hibernation spot, and thus their first access point to the relay network as they approach the galaxy without the use of the Citadel Relay.

If the Alpha Relay was merely the relay closest to the Reapers' hibernation spot (i.e. they would still have to travel to said relay via FTL), then why/how were the Reapers only moments away from arriving?

[Zulu_DFA]

Valmarn wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Oh look, yet another person who seems to think that the Reapers were coming through the Alpha Relay in Arrival, rather than approaching it in FTL. The Alpha Relay in no way makes the citadel obsolete. It's just a regular relay, albeit one that has a slightly longer range than the norm. What makes it special is simply that it's the closest to the Reapers' hibernation spot, and thus their first access point to the relay network as they approach the galaxy without the use of the Citadel Relay.

If the Alpha Relay was merely the relay closest to the Reapers' hibernation spot (i.e. they would still have to travel to said relay via FTL), then why/how were the Reapers only moments away from arriving?

Plot hole.

[Gill Kaiser]

Valmarn wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Oh look, yet another person who seems to think that the Reapers were coming through the Alpha Relay in Arrival, rather than approaching it in FTL. The Alpha Relay in no way makes the citadel obsolete. It's just a regular relay, albeit one that has a slightly longer range than the norm. What makes it special is simply that it's the closest to the Reapers' hibernation spot, and thus their first access point to the relay network as they approach the galaxy without the use of the Citadel Relay.

If the Alpha Relay was merely the relay closest to the Reapers' hibernation spot (i.e. they would still have to travel to said relay via FTL), then why/how were the Reapers only moments away from arriving?

Because they were.

I'm not sure I understand the question. They've been travelling for at least two years, since Sovereign was destroyed. They were simply moments away from arriving at FTL speeds. After Shepard blows up the relay, they arrive to find an empty system. They're in that system right now, but with no relay left, they'll be forced to travel to the next system with a relay, which could take months or years.

I might ask you why there would be a countdown at all if the Reapers were planning to enter the galaxy through the Alpha Relay. Travel by relay is instantaneous. Why would Object Rho indicate the Reapers slowly getting closer unless they were travelling at regular FTL speed?

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 01 avril 2011 - 03:09 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Eain wrote...

Why did Sovereign need Saren to find the Conduit?
There's no actual answer for this. They could've gone to find the Conduit after the invasion and guard the Citadel meanwhile. They could've just waited two years and invaded via the Alpha Relay and all other adjacent relays instead. The Reapers don't need to catch anyone offguard. Their technology is infinitely superior to that of the Citadel races.

Sovereign knew something was wrong since the citadel wasn't responding, He begins to suspect foul play

And stop.

Call back Harby:

"Hey, Bro, we got a problem. Citadel is f***ed up, you'll need to fly".

Probably more like : "Harby somethings wrong, I'll follow up on some leads to see if i can fix it at my end -Standby-".
Sovereign - Boom-
Harby : "Alright boys lets get moving".

OK, I get it. Sovereign was a moron. Or simply was tired of immortality.

Nothing wrong to see if you can fix the situation, The reapers much prefer to use the citadel than going any other route, And you forget that Sovereigns method would have worked brilliantly if there hadn't been a guy or gal running around with player shield on(that hax).

[Zulu_DFA]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

The reapers much prefer to use the citadel than going any other route,

Why, BTW? If the can as easlily fly back just in a couple of years?

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

And you forget that Sovereigns method would have worked brilliantly if there hadn't been a guy or gal running around with player shield on(that hax).

And you forget, that if not for Sovereign's EPIC FAIL, the Reapers would still have the element of surprise. And hit the Citadel en masse after FTL travelling to the Widow System (which, BTW, they still can).

[Whatever42]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

The reapers much prefer to use the citadel than going any other route,

Why, BTW? If the can as easlily fly back just in a couple of years?

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

And you forget that Sovereigns method would have worked brilliantly if there hadn't been a guy or gal running around with player shield on(that hax).

And you forget, that if not for Sovereign's EPIC FAIL, the Reapers would still have the element of surprise. And hit the Citadel en masse after FTL travelling to the Widow System (which, BTW, they still can).

Because without a surprise attack on the Citadel through the conduit, they could just close the citadel arms, making it very difficult to take the place. Breaking it open might risk destroying it, which would destroy the citadel network.

[Gill Kaiser]

Sure, they still can. It just takes a long time. The distance between relays is vast, and as the Reapers travel through possibly populated systems they risk being detected, thus losing their last chance at catching the galaxy relatively unawares.

[this isnt my name]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

The reapers much prefer to use the citadel than going any other route,

Why, BTW? If the can as easlily fly back just in a couple of years?

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

And you forget that Sovereigns method would have worked brilliantly if there hadn't been a guy or gal running around with player shield on(that hax).

And you forget, that if not for Sovereign's EPIC FAIL, the Reapers would still have the element of surprise. And hit the Citadel en masse after FTL travelling to the Widow System (which, BTW, they still can).

Citadel fractures the galaxy, and gives more info.

The plot in ME was stupid as a whole, ingnoring the conduit being useless, soverign still revealed himself needlessly, if he didnt during the battle everyone would be occupied with saren and have no idea what soverign was doing, also soverign could have said he was the last of his kind, he didnt, if he did shep wouldnt be expecting anything.

Why was Saren keeping a beacon in his base ? He destroyed the one on prime, or tried too, but kept this one despite already having used it.

Mass effects plot is just bad man, at this point tere isnt any point in rationalizing it, accept it was a cluster**** and tat ME3 will pull more stupid crap, and make more problems, at this point you may aswell just ignore te story, if I gget ME3 its for the atmosphere, music and visuals, the plot is just dead to me at this point.

[SmokePants]

The Citadel has to have a companion relay or beacon in dark space, which the Reapers would have had to abandon to start their journey into the galaxy, which is why they didn't immediately start coming at the first sign of trouble.

As for Sovereign being an idiot and throwing away his immortality, how do you know he wouldn't have been destroyed by the other Reapers for his failure?

It's not like these explanations are convoluted and require gymnastics. They are quite simple and obvious.

Modifié par SmokePants, 01 avril 2011 - 03:20 .