124 réponses à ce sujet

[Anacronian Stryx]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

The reapers much prefer to use the citadel than going any other route,

Why, BTW? If the can as easlily fly back just in a couple of years?

Because this is the method they have used so far hence it's their prefered method, If they prefered another method they would have taken another route.

So why didn't they prefer the more foolproof route?

Once they had discovered what the conduit was they concluded that Sovereign taking the Citadel by force Was a foolproof action and in universe it was.

If Shepard had been a in-game character with the same AI as all the others there is no way that (S)he could scale the tower - open the mass relay and defeat Sovereign in battle.

The problem wasn't the plan but the fact that Shepard is controlled by a player witch makes him/her unbeatable, Hell you will even see that now the Reapers are on what you call a foolproof plan Shepard will still kick their ass.

That doesn't mean that the plan it self was bad (in universe).

  

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

And you forget that Sovereigns method would have worked brilliantly if there hadn't been a guy or gal running around with player shield on(that hax).

And you forget, that if not for Sovereign's EPIC FAIL, the Reapers would still have the element of surprise. And hit the Citadel en masse after FTL travelling to the Widow System (which, BTW, they still can).

Sovereign had no way of knowing that some insanely over powerful human would climb the citadel tower and kill the Geth, Krogan warlords, Krogan Battle masters, rocket towers, Geth drop ships, Get by Saren one way or the other and then finally best Sovereign it self in combat, If Sovereign was meta playing perhaps the reapers would have made other plans but really in game the plan did make a lot of sense.

According to your own words, Sovereign initially had no clue as to the nature of the problem whatsoever. In other words, Sovereign couldn't have any estimate of its chances to fix the unknown problem. Shepard indeed was not a factor here, because for all Sovereign knew the problem could have been unfixable... Oh wait, that exactly what the problem was, according to Vigil.

Therefore, any investigation was bound to bear the inherent risk of disclosing the existence of the Reapers to the otherwise unsuspecting Galaxy. Therefore, since the Reapers have really zero problem about travelling back to the Galaxy without the Citadel, they had to do it immediately.

Sovereign arrives at the citadel gate (with his Geth fleet) and disclosing the existence of the Reapers to the otherwise unsuspecting Galaxy.

Reaper fleet arrives at the citadel gate and disclosing the existence of the Reapers to the otherwise unsuspecting Galaxy.

There really ain't all that much difference between these two actions, Both assume that no survivors will ever leave the citadel area once they have disclosed themselves both assume(d) that the once they closed the relay it will stay closed and no news will leave the area.

You're basically bashing Sovereigns plan because you have knowledge of how it all ended, But Shepard didn't do anything to foil the plan other than gun down anything that stod in his way - So what you want the game to come up with a plan that takes gameplay mechanics into consideration?

[Zulu_DFA]

SmokePants wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

So why didn't they prefer the more foolproof route?

If you had to remove a trillion tons of snow, would you grab a snow shovel or wait until the snow plow was fixed?

If I really need the snow removed, and have no time estimate on the plow fix, and the shovel is so big that can remove all the snow in no time... Make a guess.

SmokePants wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

According to your own words, Sovereign initially had no clue as to the nature of the problem whatsoever. In other words, Sovereign couldn't have any estimate of its chances to fix the unknown problem. Shepard indeed was not a factor here, because for all Sovereign knew the problem could have been unfixable... Oh wait, that exactly what the problem was, according to Vigil.

Therefore, any investigation was bound to bear the inherent risk of disclosing the existence of the Reapers to the otherwise unsuspecting Galaxy. Therefore, since the Reapers have really zero problem about travelling back to the Galaxy without the Citadel, they had to do it immediately.

If they can't come in via the Citadel, then there IS NO element of surprise to preserve.

Yes they can. They can fly to the Citadel instead of teleporting through it. FTL = element of surprize.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 avril 2011 - 04:06 .

[Whatever42]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

The problem was that the Keeper's weren't listening. Sovereign could have easily figured out why and that they Citadel relay was still working. Saren could have scanned the Citadel tower for him.

Solution: fix the Keepers. Undo the changes made by the "12 scientist". Use Benezia for the political pull, Saren for wet work, and Chorban for his already ready -to-use instruments. No need to blow up an entire colony and alert the Galaxy to your presense.

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

And flying back to the galaxy and fighting a galactic war is a far poorer plan than seizing the citadel and shutting down the relay network. The galaxy is a big, big place. Appearing and attacking several system means there are probably hundreds of other systems who are now aware of you and are capable of mounting a defense.

*Sigh*

1. Fly to the Galaxy.

2. Entry point: the Widow system.

3. Our forces: 700+ Reapers.

4. Opposing forces:  a couple dozen clueless Turian dreadnoughts at most.

Gonna be a short war.

The Keepers may not have been easily fixable. Or subtley fixable. You're making some assumptions here. And who says they knew about Chorban?

And...

1. Fly to the Galaxy.

2. Entry point: the Widow system.

3. Our forces: 700+ Reapers.

4. Opposing forces:  a couple dozen clueless Turian dreadnoughts at most.

5. Destroy Turian dreadnoughts; citadel closes arms. Citadel is nearly industructible and much, much bigger than a mass relay. The Reapers are unlikely to be able to blast in or cut their way in. They could always try to crash a giant planet into it, blowing it up but that destroys the relay network. No more reaping.

Its a short war but the Reapers are screwed.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 01 avril 2011 - 04:06 .

[SmokePants]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

Supposedly, he didn't even learn what the Conduit was until after he alerted the galaxy to some kind of a large scale campaign he was undertaking and lost his hero-spectre priviliges.[/quote]

Obviously, he had some idea of what he was looking for. He was at least investigating what the problem was before he committed to a course of action.

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

No it's not. They still can FTL-fly to it, just like to the Alpha relay and London.[/quote]

They can fly to it, but they can not capture it. The thing is a fortress and it is unclear if they have the capability to penetrate its defenses -- without completely destroying it.

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...
[quote]SmokePants wrote...

so they have to get their hands dirty and sweep the galaxy the old-fashioned way. With the Citadel, it might have taken them centuries. Without it, it may take millennia and just generally be a less pleasant process for them.
[/quote]
This is a baseless assumption.[/quote][/quote]

A baseless assumption that works, which the writers could easily employ. It sure beats baseless assumptions that defy any solution.

[piemanz]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


Yes they can. They can fly to the Citadel instead of teleporting through it. FTL = element of surprize.

piemanz wrote...

They can't just use any ralay to warp in from darks space it has to be the citadel and only the citadel.

Using
the citadel is simply the faster route, it also has numerous tactical
advantages over just flying from wherever they were in dark space.Not to
mention the fact they have probably been travelling at FTL for 4 years,
maybe longer, it's  going to take it's toll on their energy levels.The
assumption they can just as as easily get here without the citadel is
just plain wrong.

[Mangalores]

piemanz wrote...
...

They can't just use any ralay to warp in from darks space it has to be the citadel and only the citadel.

Why would they build it that way? Either you need the citadel to make the jump or it is meaningless, then your plan doesn't need it.

Using the citadel is simply the faster route, it also has numerous tactical advantages over just flying from wherever they were in dark space.Not to mention the fact they have probably been travelling at FTL for 4 years, maybe longer, it's  going to take it's toll on their energy levels.The assumption the can just as as easily get here without the citadel is just plain wrong.

What tactical advantage? The tactical advantage is to shut the relays and then mob the floor with whoever is stuck on the wrong side of the relay. That is the trap. Making any interstellar species dependant on a tech they can't replicate with a backdoor to use it for your advantage. Doing it via the Citadel might allow optimal spread but it wouldn't solve the problem of any galactic civilization who just got shut out of its galactic transportation system with its forces scattered in peace mode all over the place. The whole communication system works with the relays, too, so none but the guys getting owned by a bunch of space spiders  would have a clue what just happened.

The same trap works the same way if you simply have to get to the Citadel via a few jumps from the galactic fringe. The point is to isolate the enemy. even if you have to do a couple of jumps to get to the central nexus to do so it won't help anyone to repel you because they can't tell anyone else.


So either the Citadel has some other purpose making it impractical to rig the whole relay system this way or the Reapers really shouldn't be so obsessed with the Citadel in the first place and have rigged the whole system so it's unimportant how they get from darkspace back to the milky way.

[MDT1]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


*Sigh*

1. Fly to the Galaxy.

2. Entry point: the Widow system.

3. Our forces: 700+ Reapers.

4. Opposing forces:  a couple dozen clueless Turian dreadnoughts at most.

Gonna be a short war.

The whole point of the citadel is to shut down relay transit fast to prevent enemys from organizing a defens and traveling.
And even if closeing the citadel doesn't protect it forever it's still quite difficult to cover a galaxy of 100 billion stars with 700 reapers when the enemy hast time to hide und to delete his starmaps that you would normaly get handed out on a tablet.
The extinction of the Protheans took centuries it's quite possible that someone could invent efficient anti reaper tech if they have time to prepare ...

And es you said, 700 reapers, I don't think they can affort to loose a hand full of them in every cicle when they can creat 1 new reaper at best.

Modifié par MDT1, 01 avril 2011 - 04:20 .

[Whatever42]

Mangalores wrote...

The same trap works the same way if you simply have to get to the Citadel via a few jumps from the galactic fringe. The point is to isolate the enemy. even if you have to do a couple of jumps to get to the central nexus to do so it won't help anyone to repel you because they can't tell anyone else.

So either the Citadel has some other purpose making it impractical to rig the whole relay system this way or the Reapers really shouldn't be so obsessed with the Citadel in the first place and have rigged the whole system so it's unimportant how they get from darkspace back to the milky way.

No, it doesn't work the same way. When you jump to the Citadel system to the ordinary way, you do not appear at the Citadel. You appear near the citadel and have to fly in. The Citadel can see you. They can close up and turtle.

Jumping into the Citadel using the citadel as the relay means that you appear right on top of them. Getting control of the citadel first through the Keepers means that they're paralyzed and can only watch uselessly while you indoctrinate them all.

[Nogthwai]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

The problem was that the Keeper's weren't listening. Sovereign could have easily figured out why and that they Citadel relay was still working. Saren could have scanned the Citadel tower for him.

Solution: fix the Keepers. Undo the changes made by the "12 scientist". Use Benezia for the political pull, Saren for wet work, and Chorban for his already ready -to-use instruments. No need to blow up an entire colony and alert the Galaxy to your presense.

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

And flying back to the galaxy and fighting a galactic war is a far poorer plan than seizing the citadel and shutting down the relay network. The galaxy is a big, big place. Appearing and attacking several system means there are probably hundreds of other systems who are now aware of you and are capable of mounting a defense.

*Sigh*

1. Fly to the Galaxy.

2. Entry point: the Widow system.

3. Our forces: 700+ Reapers.

4. Opposing forces:  a couple dozen clueless Turian dreadnoughts at most.

Gonna be a short war.

From the way the Reapers wage war you have to assume they do not want to risk open war for one way or another. If they could just fly in and overwhelm everyone wihtout any problems, they'd do that and there would be no need for Mass Relays or the Citadel. Obviously they can't or don't want to. Maybe even the outlook of loosing as few as one Reaper during each Invasion is not bearable for them (which is hinted at in Sarens Base, since each reaper is basically a "Nation", the consciousness of millions).

We know that there have been organic Races that managed to kill / damage individual Reapers, some of the Protheans even managed to hide. They also try to hide any eveidence of previous cycles so they're clearly afraid that someone figures out how to kill them (Which also ties in to the fact that they probably don't advance technologically by themselves).  

Modifié par Nogthwai, 01 avril 2011 - 04:18 .

[piemanz]

Mangalores wrote...

Why would they build it that way? Either you need the citadel to make the jump or it is meaningless, then your plan doesn't need it.

Because, for all their intelligence the reapers, when it boils down to it are over confident idiots.They've been doing the same thing for millenia and probably thought their plan was fool proof.

Mangalores wrote...

The same trap works the same way if you simply have to get to the Citadel via a few jumps from the galactic fringe. The point is to isolate the enemy. even if you have to do a couple of jumps to get to the central nexus to do so it won't help anyone to repel you because they can't tell anyone else.

It would take hours to get from the galactic fring to the citadel, anyone monitoring the relay network on the citadel would notice a reaper fleet almost instantaneously and shut the citadel arms,reapers plans are now screwed.

Modifié par piemanz, 01 avril 2011 - 04:22 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Citadel = Master control over the mass effect relay network.(Close it down and complete Chaos ensures)

Citadel = Central government, Cut of the head of a whole slew of races governments(even more chaos but this seems a side effect since the relay network will already be shoot down there is no way these governments could actually govern even if they weren't killed.)

Citadel = Files about every race known by the council races.(important, Even if the Vanguard is keeping taps on everything there might be something that goes beyond it's notice).

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 01 avril 2011 - 04:22 .

[Whatever42]

Nogthwai wrote...

From the way the Reapers wage war you have to assume they do not want to risk open war for one way or another. If they could just fly in and overwhelm everyone wihtout any problems, they'd do that and there would be no need for Mass Relays or the Citadel. Obviously they can't or don't want to. Maybe even the outlook of loosing as few as one Reaper during each Invasion is not bearable for them (which is hinted at in Sarens Base, since each reaper is basically a "Nation", the consciousness of millions).

We know that there have been organic Races that managed to kill / damage individual Reapers, some of the Protheans even managed to hide.  

Not to mention, it royally screws up the whole cycle if you can't grab the Citadel intact. So lets say it takes you 1000 years instead of a few centuries to clean everything up.

However, now these systems can communicate. They know you're coming. They can scatter. They can learn about indoctrination. They can run. A lot might get away. If a few prothean scientists messed you up, imagine what would happen if whole species smuggled off their best and brightest?

And how do you get that damn Citadel back? Do you destroy it? Ugh! If they destroy it, can they rebuild it? I doubt it. The Reapers don't look like builders to me. The Reapers are pretty screwed. Oh, we might be too but so are they. Their cycle has gone to hell.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 01 avril 2011 - 04:22 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

The Keepers may not have been easily fixable. Or subtley fixable. You're making some assumptions here.

Not much need for subtlety. All Sovereign needed was that the ban for Keeper's studies be removed, and that the studies themselves be conducted by people on Saren's payroll.

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

And who says they knew about Chorban?

If one random Salarian geek can come up with a way to study keepres, another can too. Say, wasn't Mordin interested in studying the Keepers?

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

5. Destroy Turian dreadnoughts; citadel closes arms. Citadel is nearly industructible and much, much bigger than a mass relay. The Reapers are unlikely to be able to blast in or cut their way in. They could always try to crash a giant planet into it, blowing it up but that destroys the relay network. No more reaping.

Like I said. If the Reapers had no way to open the Citadel from the outside, then they'd be just laughable morons. Even if that was the case there were multiple options for a diverion like Saren's one, only more sensible, like sending in the Collectors on a "diplomatic" mission.

If everything else fails, leave a dozen of Reapers at the Citadel, to figure out the way to get in, or maybe just wait till the guys inside open it up again, while the rest 688+ Reapers could go on reaping.

And what's that stuff about planet crashing? You play too much ME2 DLC, man. A couple of hydrogene bombs would be enough.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 avril 2011 - 05:04 .

[SmokePants]

The take-away from this thread is that there are a lot of people who simply don't want this story to work and are eager to dismiss very simple and elegant potential explanations to further their severe case of nerd rage.

David Gaider posted a few days ago how the "plot hole" arguments are generally a mix of "I don't get it." and "I don't like it."

[piemanz]

SmokePants wrote...

The take-away from this thread is that there are a lot of people who simply don't want this story to work and are eager to dismiss very simple and elegant potential explanations to further their severe case of nerd rage.

David Gaider posted a few days ago how the "plot hole" arguments are generally a mix of "I don't get it." and "I don't like it."

QFT.

[Devbo22]

SmokePants wrote...

The take-away from this thread is that there are a lot of people who simply don't want this story to work and are eager to dismiss very simple and elegant potential explanations to further their severe case of nerd rage.

David Gaider posted a few days ago how the "plot hole" arguments are generally a mix of "I don't get it." and "I don't like it."

Well said.

[Zulu_DFA]

SmokePants wrote...

The take-away from this thread is that there are a lot of people who simply don't want this story to work and are eager to dismiss very simple and elegant potential explanations to further their severe case of nerd rage.

David Gaider posted a few days ago how the "plot hole" arguments are generally a mix of "I don't get it." and "I don't like it."

Sounds like an ad hominem to me. And generalization.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 avril 2011 - 04:29 .

[this isnt my name]

SmokePants wrote...

The take-away from this thread is that there are a lot of people who simply don't want this story to work and are eager to dismiss very simple and elegant potential explanations to further their severe case of nerd rage.

David Gaider posted a few days ago how the "plot hole" arguments are generally a mix of "I don't get it." and "I don't like it."

So instead of actualling getting rid of the plotholes they just basically say
 "your trolling", hmm no wonder I dont see criticism without that person being drowned out beneth posts of  "troll"

Biowares writers: "Ah yes "plot holes"..."

[Whatever42]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Not much need for subtlety. All Sovereign needed was that the ban for Keeper's studies be removed, and that the studies themselves be conducted by people on Saren's payroll.


If one random Salarian geek can come up with a way to study keepres, another can too. Say, wasn't Mordin interested in studying the Keepers?

Like I said. If the Reapers had no way to open the Citadel from the ouside, then they'd be just laughable morons. Even if that was the case there were multiple options for a diverion like Saren's one, only more sensible, like sending in the Collectors on a "diplomatic" mission.

If everything else fails, leave a dozen of Reapers at the Citadel, to figure out the way to get in, or maybe just wait till the guys inside open it up again, while the rest 688+ Reapers could go on reaping.

And what's that stuff about planet crashing? You play to much ME2 DLC, man. A couple of hydrogene bombs would be enough.

You're assuming that the Council would authorize experimentation on the Keepers. Big big IF. Why would they do that? And how would Saren get his people in charge?

And Chorban merely scanned them and look what he found. If someone actually reported that to the council then wouldn't that be bad? Oh right, Saren is so politically powerful that he'll control the whole team and fabricate all the data to the council.

That plan not only has great risk but is very tricky. I would argue that simply despositing a few hundred Krogan and Geth in the Citadel is safer.

And again, you're assuming that the Reapers built the Citadel because Sovey said so. But yes, if the Reapers had really built it all and could remote control it all then they could just order the Citadel to fire up and gate in all the Reapers and this whole game is pointless. Except they can't. So they must not be able to.

And smuggling spies into the Citadel doesn't get you that much. The Citadel tower was very defensible. Ashley even comments on it. They needed an army to take it. And setting off hydrogen bombs might kill everyone in the tower but it migh also destroy the tower. Assuming you could get a hydrogen bomb in there.

And leaving a few dozen Reapers to seige the Citadel while going off to make war still leaves you the problem with now you have to fight a war. And people will get away from you. And your cycle is toast.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

A note: if you try to study the keepers in any more depth than a simple scan, they dissolve instantly into a pile of goo. It's in their codex entries. It's implied that a lot of people tried early on, but the goo-ening was so consistent that they gave up.

I've also always assumed that the Keepers were one of the first experiments in using organics in this way. The fact that they proved inconsistent may be why the reapers made the collectors in such a way as to be able to "assume direct control."

[SalsaDMA]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Nogthwai wrote...

From the way the Reapers wage war you have to assume they do not want to risk open war for one way or another. If they could just fly in and overwhelm everyone wihtout any problems, they'd do that and there would be no need for Mass Relays or the Citadel. Obviously they can't or don't want to. Maybe even the outlook of loosing as few as one Reaper during each Invasion is not bearable for them (which is hinted at in Sarens Base, since each reaper is basically a "Nation", the consciousness of millions).

We know that there have been organic Races that managed to kill / damage individual Reapers, some of the Protheans even managed to hide.  

Not to mention, it royally screws up the whole cycle if you can't grab the Citadel intact. So lets say it takes you 1000 years instead of a few centuries to clean everything up.

However, now these systems can communicate. They know you're coming. They can scatter. They can learn about indoctrination. They can run. A lot might get away. If a few prothean scientists messed you up, imagine what would happen if whole species smuggled off their best and brightest?

And how do you get that damn Citadel back? Do you destroy it? Ugh! If they destroy it, can they rebuild it? I doubt it. The Reapers don't look like builders to me. The Reapers are pretty screwed. Oh, we might be too but so are they. Their cycle has gone to hell.

Actually, they could just take one system at a time. Lock down the Mass relay, blow up anything that comes through or tries to get to it, while cleaning up in the system. You might want to remember that the relays are used for communication as well, so with that one firmly in the control of the reapers, any system they enter is a complete black out. Ironically, somewhat the same effect to outsiders as when the system in arrival got blown up: a communications black out with none the wiser at what went on in there.

It takes relatively few relays to get to the citadel, and an unsuspecting citadel would not be prepared with a force that would be anywhere near to do much anything than crumble over and die.

On another note, the whole "Collectors are Protheans" does put a question to why Saren needed to hunt for ancient Prothean artifacts when the reapers already had collector base. Are we to asume that Sovereign didn't know what Harbinger was doing?

[Devbo22]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

A note: if you try to study the keepers in any more depth than a simple scan, they dissolve instantly into a pile of goo. It's in their codex entries. It's implied that a lot of people tried early on, but the goo-ening was so consistent that they gave up.

I've also always assumed that the Keepers were one of the first experiments in using organics in this way. The fact that they proved inconsistent may be why the reapers made the collectors in such a way as to be able to "assume direct control."

Very possible.  The reapers have had lots of cycles to fine tune their organic engineering to fit their need.

[Whatever42]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Actually, they could just take one system at a time. Lock down the Mass relay, blow up anything that comes through or tries to get to it, while cleaning up in the system. You might want to remember that the relays are used for communication as well, so with that one firmly in the control of the reapers, any system they enter is a complete black out. Ironically, somewhat the same effect to outsiders as when the system in arrival got blown up: a communications black out with none the wiser at what went on in there.

It takes relatively few relays to get to the citadel, and an unsuspecting citadel would not be prepared with a force that would be anywhere near to do much anything than crumble over and die.

On another note, the whole "Collectors are Protheans" does put a question to why Saren needed to hunt for ancient Prothean artifacts when the reapers already had collector base. Are we to asume that Sovereign didn't know what Harbinger was doing?

There is a huge amount of drift with Relay traffic, locking it down to keep fleets from jumping in would be hard but possible, I suppose. But nothing stops someone from using FTL to get to another relay and jumping out from there.

And remember, you don't actually jump into the Citadel. You jump to a nearby relay and fly to the Citadel. They would close the arms. They certainly tried when the Geth arrived. Only Saren stopped them when his army took out the Citadel tower.

What does the Collector base have to do with the beacons?

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 01 avril 2011 - 04:55 .

[Nogthwai]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Nogthwai wrote...

From the way the Reapers wage war you have to assume they do not want to risk open war for one way or another. If they could just fly in and overwhelm everyone wihtout any problems, they'd do that and there would be no need for Mass Relays or the Citadel. Obviously they can't or don't want to. Maybe even the outlook of loosing as few as one Reaper during each Invasion is not bearable for them (which is hinted at in Sarens Base, since each reaper is basically a "Nation", the consciousness of millions).

We know that there have been organic Races that managed to kill / damage individual Reapers, some of the Protheans even managed to hide.  

Not to mention, it royally screws up the whole cycle if you can't grab the Citadel intact. So lets say it takes you 1000 years instead of a few centuries to clean everything up.

However, now these systems can communicate. They know you're coming. They can scatter. They can learn about indoctrination. They can run. A lot might get away. If a few prothean scientists messed you up, imagine what would happen if whole species smuggled off their best and brightest?

And how do you get that damn Citadel back? Do you destroy it? Ugh! If they destroy it, can they rebuild it? I doubt it. The Reapers don't look like builders to me. The Reapers are pretty screwed. Oh, we might be too but so are they. Their cycle has gone to hell.

Actually, they could just take one system at a time. Lock down the Mass relay, blow up anything that comes through or tries to get to it, while cleaning up in the system. You might want to remember that the relays are used for communication as well, so with that one firmly in the control of the reapers, any system they enter is a complete black out. Ironically, somewhat the same effect to outsiders as when the system in arrival got blown up: a communications black out with none the wiser at what went on in there.

It takes relatively few relays to get to the citadel, and an unsuspecting citadel would not be prepared with a force that would be anywhere near to do much anything than crumble over and die.

On another note, the whole "Collectors are Protheans" does put a question to why Saren needed to hunt for ancient Prothean artifacts when the reapers already had collector base. Are we to asume that Sovereign didn't know what Harbinger was doing?

Well, once the reapers make themselves known (and they have to, even if they attack some systems quite fast, some will always be able to get away, even with ftl and reach for the next relay) it starts to get really messy anyway. Even if the citadel species are loosing the war they'd probably do the only thing sensible and start destroying the mass relays as well as the citadel in order to prolong the war and scatter among the stars and spread data caches and information about the reapers. The Reapers have to deal with the survivors one way or another; they can't just go away for this cycle and hope that nobody noticed this time. Since they even managed to overlook some dead reapers and Ilos, they seem to have serious problems with cleaning up .   

Modifié par Nogthwai, 01 avril 2011 - 04:59 .

[Whatever42]

Nogthwai wrote...

Well, once the reapers make themselves known (and they have to, even if they attack some systems quite fast, some will always be able to get away, even with ftl and reach for the next relay) it starts to get really messy anyway. Even if the citadel species are loosing the war they'd probably do the only thing sensible and start destroying the mass relays as well as the citadel in order to prolong the war and scatter among the stars and pread data caches about the reapers. The Reapers have to deal with the survivors one way or another; they can't just go away for this cycle and hope that nobody noticed this time.   

That's a good point. In a long war, species would just trash their relays. The Protheans had no idea what was happening but now that we do, just trash the relays and scatter.