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Bioware/EA from a business perspective. An utter failure and shambles.


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#1
Ronin2006

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I personally find a lot of the business decisions behind this game to be mind-boggling stupid and shortsighted.  I honestly believe that if they wanted to make a profit from this series, and in the long term, then they are really going about it the wrong way.  If I was a shareholder in a company that is moving in the direction that EA/Bioware is heading, then I would sell my shares ASAP because companies that follow this kind of business strategy tend not to last.

I understand also that many of the business strategies used for this game will probably yield a healthy immediate profit, but some of the hallmarks of a long-term successful business will be lost.  In order to survive in the long-term, a business needs to build a solid foundation from a strong reputation with loyal customers, and I honestly believe that these two factors are at risk with the current business strategy.  (Note: I am not familiar enough with the dealings between EA/Bioware to know who exactly I should blame for some of these business decisions, so instead they are grouped together.  I realise that most of you disappointed with DA 2 blame EA for the direction of the series, but I personally am not certain that it is all EA's doing despite there being some pretty damning evidence in support of this)

With this in mind these are some of things that I just don't understand from a busness/profit-making perspective:

  • Mike Laidlaw dismissing some of the concerns of disillusioned DA O fans.  Honestly, no business wants to alienate it's core/existing customers.  Some of the things that have been stated are not going to endear him to people who have been loyal customers of Bioware.  (this is regardless of whether he is right or not, the fact is a lot of the DA O fans felt that he has criticised them personally by failing to really acknowledge their concerns and complaints in interviews)


  • The use of DLC at launch for an arguably incomplete game.  Many people (myself included) felt as though a big part of the "core" game was missing and that it was designed in part to sell more DLC.  (Consider the ending to this game, and the flagrant pimping of the Exiled Prince DLC)  Look, I understand the need for DLC and how it can turn in a healthy profit.  But the best way to entice people to buy the 'extras' is to make the core product as good as possible and as complete as possible.  DA O felt like a "complete" game, and because I enjoyed it so much I went on to buy Awakenings and some DLC.  If the "core" game isn't as complete, it doesn't always mean people will buy the DLC for the "full experience," instead they will feel like you didn't give them value for money and will instead be more frugal when approaching your products in the future.  This game is being sold as a full retail game, and the features should reflect a full gaming experience.


  • Short development cycle.  I am assuming that EA wanted to capitalise on the success of DA O, and wanted to sell DA 2 while the first game was still in the minds of gamers around the world.  This is fine, but there can be no doubt that this has compromised the final product to some extent (the respawning enemies and level re-use shows this more than anything).  Now, if you were to compromise the product so as to capitalise on market interest, you need to be confident that the market is one where interest will diminish quickly over time so that time will be of the essence in releasing the next product.  Unfortunately, as far as videogames are concerned, this theory doesn't appear to hold true.  Look at the hype of games like Skyrim, or looking further back, Ocarina of Time.  I remember when I was a child and Ocarina of Time seemed to take forever to be released, and each setback seemed to only add to the hype (it was meant to be a N64 release game but ended up being released far later).  Nintendo seemed to use the long development time to their advantage in hyping the game, telling consumers that they were only making the game the greatest experience possible.  Ultimately, the extra time spent developing the game turned what could of been an average game to a general consesus contender for GOAT, and extremely profitable.  (Whether you personally like Ocarina of Time isn't really the issue)


  • Trying to appeal to the masses.  I believe that they were thinking that if they make the game as accessible as possible, then you open up the biggest potential fanbase.  While at a basic business/marketing perspective this makes sense , it would be pretty naive to think of the gaming market in such a simple manner.  People who play videogames come from a diverse range of ages and backgrounds, and they don't all share the same interests.  The biggest pool of people in the videogame market would indeed appear to come from the COD or FPS audience, but this is not who should be targetted for a game that is a successor to DA O.  One of the reasons for the success of DA O was the concept of product differentiation.  (Where a product is deliberately different from it's competitors and in doing so is able to capture a unique and particular market segment.  Think of it as a bit of a 'niche' product)  DA O successfully brought in a number of fans who most likely weren't looking for a simple COD type of experience, and it would make a lot of sense for the sequel to do likewise.  At the end of the day, the customers who want another COD will buy the next COD, and if they get desperate, they'll buy Battlefield or one of those franchises.  Not something called "Dragon Age."  I myself play a bit of COD with my mates, and a lot of games in other genres, but when I pick up something by a company called Bioware that's called "Dragon Age" I expect something that is as far removed as possible from this type of game.  (Note:  If you want to tell me they weren't trying to get the larger COD audience, perhaps you should read this:  http://www.nowgamer....-dutys-audience)


  • "If you push a button, something awesome has to happen."  - This has been mentioned so many times, so I don't really want to say too much on it.  But it does seem as though they wanted to produce a more simple action-oriented experience in the combat.  Unfortunately, if the action only requires the simple press of a button, it is generally insulting to the intelligence of the customer, and if they catch on to that feeling, it is generally pretty bad for the company.


  • DRM (or whatever that weird verification thing was).  Now this only really applies to the PC gamers, but honestly, nothing in my mind could be more shortsighted from a commercial perspective.  The people who are really inconvenienced and effectively taxed and treated like criminals for this game are ultimately the legitimate paying customers.  The fact is, that if I *really* wanted to pirate this game, I would, and I wouldn't encounter any of the stupid DRM.  So why should I, having decided to buy a legitimate copy of the game in good faith, be treated like a suspected criminal?  Have more faith in your customers!

Anyway, that's all I can think of for now.  I know there were many other gripes I had from the business perspective, and if I can think of them I'll add them to this post later.

Modifié par Ronin2006, 01 avril 2011 - 01:28 .


#2
Zanderat

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All good points. Thanks.

#3
Speakeasy13

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Good points. Nothing haven't said before, but good summary.

Also an additional comment about pt#3: quite a many people simply haven't done playing DA:O, considering its absurd length and above-average playability. And the overtly short development cycle ended up having the 2 games (and Awakening) cannibalizing each other.

#4
Cybermortis

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Ronin2006 wrote...

[*]
[*]Trying to appeal to the masses.  I believe that they were thinking that if they make the game as accessible as possible, then you open up the biggest potential fanbase.  While at a basic business/marketing perspective this makes sense , it would be pretty naive to think of the gaming market in such a simple manner.  People who play videogames come from a diverse range of ages and backgrounds, and they don't all share the same interests.  The biggest pool of people in the videogame market would indeed appear to come from the COD or FPS audience, but this is not who should be targetted for a game that is a successor to DA O.  One of the reasons for the success of DA O was the concept of product differentiation.  (Where a product is deliberately different from it's competitors and in doing so is able to capture a unique and particular market segment.  Think of it as a bit of a 'niche' product)  DA O successfully brought in a number of fans who most likely weren't looking for a simple COD type of experience, and it would make a lot of sense for the sequel to do likewise.  At the end of the day, the customers who want another COD will buy the next COD, and if they get desperate, they'll buy Battlefield or one of those franchises.  Not something called "Dragon Age."  I myself play a bit of COD with my mates, and a lot of games in other genres, but when I pick up something by a company called Bioware that's called "Dragon Age" I expect something that is as far removed as possible from this type of game.  (Note:  If you want to tell me they weren't trying to get the larger COD audience, perhaps you should read this:  http://www.nowgamer....-dutys-audience)
[*]
[*]

[*]I'd add that gamers rarely stick with one type of game. COD and similar games are the kind of thing you can pick up and play when you have the time, say for an hour or two after work. I'd say this is akin to what you eat. Most people will happily dig into fast food to apease their hunger during the day, but want something more substantial at other times. The same holds for games, in which people want both games that they can play for short term entertainment, but also desire something with more depth from time to time. RPG's should be the latter type of game, something 'heavier' that players can get their teeth into. Not least because people are less likely to buy many of such titles per year. My impression from sales figures is that the larger, more complex games are the ones that stick around in the charts for long periods of time. DAO, ME and ME2 are, for example, all in the top 15 PC bestseller lists in the UK -  very impressive considering that the youngest of the three was released over a year ago. Clearly such games have a far longer shelf-life than the more 'popular' games, and as such potentially far better sales for DLC content...IF the game itself is any good. In terms of income good RPG's should be viewed as long term investments to be nurtured from the start. Not short term profit machines.

#5
Zmajc

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If i want to play a shooter i'll play a shooter, if i want to play an action adventure i'll play Darksiders, Gear of War or God of War, if i want to play an RPG i will play an RPG not a wannabe RPG who trys hard not to be one.

Modifié par Zmajc, 01 avril 2011 - 12:45 .


#6
Ronin2006

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Speakeasy13 wrote...

Good points. Nothing haven't said before, but good summary.


Thanks.  I wasn't really trying to summarise what others have said before, but considering I don't spend *that* much time on these forums I'm not surprised that others have brought up these issues too.  They were the ones that to me were the most glaringly obvious.

#7
Thibbledorf26

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Great post, well articulated. COD and FPS games have a host of companies who excel at making these types of games, you can't just snag this market easily.

#8
Deylar

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Zmajc wrote...
If i want to play a shooter i'll play a shooter, if i want to play an action adventure i'll play Darksiders, Gear of War or God of War, if i want to play an RPG i will play an RPG not a wannabe RPG who trys hard not to be one.


Agreed, thank you.

#9
Shatterkiss

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That's it in a nutshell. I'm not sure why Laidlaw isn't trying to get ahead of this. Other developers have extensively patched games after release when players didn't like aspects of the game, but you get diminishing returns from that the longer you wait.

#10
Zanderat

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Shatterkiss wrote...

That's it in a nutshell. I'm not sure why Laidlaw isn't trying to get ahead of this. Other developers have extensively patched games after release when players didn't like aspects of the game, but you get diminishing returns from that the longer you wait.

ML still thiks that he created a masterpiece and that anyone who does't like it is a) unwilling to change, B) can't apprecite the coolnes of his awesome button (still bugged, btw), c) too dumb to "get it" or, d) all of the above.

Modifié par Zanderat, 01 avril 2011 - 01:39 .


#11
Cybermortis

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After my first playthrough I found the 'awesome' button on the PC.

It was labelled 'Exit Game'.

#12
Ronin2006

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Zanderat wrote...

Shatterkiss wrote...

That's it in a nutshell. I'm not sure why Laidlaw isn't trying to get ahead of this. Other developers have extensively patched games after release when players didn't like aspects of the game, but you get diminishing returns from that the longer you wait.

ML still thiks that he created a masterpiece and that anyone who does't like it is a) unwilling to change, B) can't apprecite the coolnes of his awesome button (still bugged, btw), c) too dumb to "get it" or, d) all of the above.


I certainly believe that Mike Laidlaw could have expressed himself a lot better in his interviews.  He might love his creation, and that's fine, but he shouldn't belittle those that don't love it and have genuine complaints about it.

Modifié par Ronin2006, 01 avril 2011 - 03:23 .


#13
grahsco1

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My feeling from reading your post is that you know what you want in a video game, but your points are based on your preferences/assumptions and not from a "business" perspective.

What will determine if Bioware/EA is an utter failure is...... Sales. Can they sell this game, and future ones. And at this point, I suspect they can.

#14
Ronin2006

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grahsco1 wrote...

My feeling from reading your post is that you know what you want in a video game, but your points are based on your preferences/assumptions and not from a "business" perspective.

What will determine if Bioware/EA is an utter failure is...... Sales. Can they sell this game, and future ones. And at this point, I suspect they can.


I've tried to keep my post as objective as possible.  If you want to point out exactly where I've crossed the line from objective assessment into subjective opinion then please point this out to me.  A lot of my "opinion" is what I have learned and observed from studying business and then interpreted into the videogame context.  I don't believe it is simply just what I think and prefer from a game, but there are some overlaps.  Obviously, every assessment in any field is going to be tainted somewhat by personal opinion, but please point out where you disagree with me rather than just saying that it's an opinion and dismissing it entirely.

Also, sales will be determined and assessed well into this year as they continue to pump out more DLC to sell this game.  It's something that is at this point a little speculative, but we can certainly guess what will happen from now into the future.  My guess is that a lot of the marketing strategies for this game will harm the name Bioware.

#15
MrTijger

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Oh wow, another TL:DR post with a rehash of the same arguments as presented before with the same 'my opinion is fact' attitude. Woohoo.

PS: Objectivity is not pretending your opinion is a fact.

Modifié par MrTijger, 01 avril 2011 - 04:04 .


#16
Ronin2006

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MrTijger wrote...

Oh wow, another TL:DR post with a rehash of the same arguments as presented before with the same 'my opinion is fact' attitude. Woohoo.

PS: Objectivity is not pretending your opinion is a fact.


The breadth and depth of your post is astounding.  I am well and truly awestruck at how you have meticulously picked apart my thread topic to demonstrate it's flaws and weaknesses and shown me the folly of my ways.

In fact, at least when I discuss something I give it an explanation and reasoning.  I attempt to use logic so as not to keep it in the realm of just being an opinion, but demonstrate the process that has led me to a particular conclusion.  If you disagree with it, then that's fine, explain why.  In fact,  I wanted to elaborate on every point further, but didn't because this is an internet forum and people aren't usually that interested, nor do I have the energy to post something that long, but believe me I certainly could.

What you have done however,  is exactly what I have been trying to avoid and that is produce nothing more than an unsubstantiated opinion with little to back it up.

Edit:  If you have actually bothered reading my thread topic despite your "TL:DR" comment you'll see the amount of times I explicitly state "I honestly believe" and "In my opinion" or something along those lines.  If anything, I have fully acknowledged that my assessment of the game from a business perspective is purely based on opinion.  I'm happy to discuss my opinions even though I have attempted to come to them as objectively as possible.

Modifié par Ronin2006, 01 avril 2011 - 04:21 .


#17
WardenGriff

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I have similar sentiments to the OP. Look at the chart of EA's stock in the past, I notice a good bump at end of their Fiscal Year. Seems like DA2 was the cash grab this time......

#18
MrTijger

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Ronin2006 wrote...

MrTijger wrote...

Oh wow, another TL:DR post with a rehash of the same arguments as presented before with the same 'my opinion is fact' attitude. Woohoo.

PS: Objectivity is not pretending your opinion is a fact.


The breadth and depth of your post is astounding.  I am well and truly awestruck at how you have meticulously picked apart my thread topic to demonstrate it's flaws and weaknesses and shown me the folly of my ways.


Indeed. Nice try on the putdown but I'm not going to bite Posted Image

In fact, at least when I discuss something I give it an explanation and reasoning.  I attempt to use logic so as not to keep it in the realm of just being an opinion, but demonstrate the process that has led me to a particular conclusion.  If you disagree with it, then that's fine, explain why.  In fact,  I wanted to elaborate on every point further, but didn't because this is an internet forum and people aren't usually that interested, nor do I have the energy to post something that long, but believe me I certainly could.


No, I have no interest to expound ad nauseam how wonderful my opinion is and how well I present it.

What you have done however,  is exactly what I have been trying to avoid and that is produce nothing more than an unsubstantiated opinion with little to back it up.


Yeah, a load of opinions without actual factual substance when it would be possible to give a quote even (the comment about Laidlaw for instance) is your idea of substantiating. Well done.

Edit:  If you have actually bothered reading my thread topic despite your "TL:DR" comment you'll see the amount of times I explicitly state "I honestly believe" and "In my opinion" or something along those lines.  If anything, I have fully acknowledged that my assessment of the game from a business perspective is purely based on opinion.  I'm happy to discuss my opinions even though I have attempted to come to them as objectively as possible.


Objective assumes you do not have a formed opinion, you, however, clearly do already have formed an opinion.
You simply pretend to build an argument to support only your conclusions and ignore anything that doesnt align with that. We call that disingenious.
It's nothing new, its nothing all that interesting, its just another person on the internet. Nobody cares

So, again, TL;DR, kthxbai!

Modifié par MrTijger, 01 avril 2011 - 04:35 .


#19
XX55XX

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These are all good points - from the consumer's perspective.

The use of DLC at launch for an arguably incomplete game.


It's a way of capturing more gross profit on a product where margins have been shrinking for the last ten years. What is wrong with that? It is hardly unfair at all - at least they allowed people to pre-order the game to get the Sebastian DLC for free. A wise business decision, in my opinion.

Short development cycle.


As a gamer, I agree, but any big video game publisher worth its salt needs to keep churning out product consistently. You are dead if you don't have new stuff coming out the door. People were going to buy the game regardless of when it's coming out. Is it worth pouring $10 million more dollars to better the game when the return is likely an additional $1 million in revenue? Don't think so.

I hated the short development cycle too, but EA's financial analysts probably told management that the extra investment probably wasn't worth it - and hence, the tighter development schedule.

Other points I do agree with, from both a business/gaming perspective.

#20
MrTijger

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WardenGriff wrote...

I have similar sentiments to the OP. Look at the chart of EA's stock in the past, I notice a good bump at end of their Fiscal Year. Seems like DA2 was the cash grab this time......


Soooo...wouldnt that make it a smart business move rather than a bad one?

#21
Cybermortis

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I've noted before that the telling sales for DA2 will be in the DLC, followed by the pre-orders of ME3. My best guess at this point is that DLC sales will be a heck of lot lower than they'd intended.
These figures will give a better idea as to how badly they have damaged Biowares reputation - but it is highly unlikely, to say the least, that they would ever reveal how much of either they were/are hoping for.

It is likely to be the game after ME3 that feels the fallout of DA2, since sales of ME3 are likely to be high anyway. People are likely to be more wary of Bioware titles, but a good or great ME3 might restore enough some confidence to allow the next game to sell well. That said if ME3 is also disappointing...RIP Bioware...Likewise if whatever follows ME3 is poor quality they will be in trouble. People may be willing to accept one poor game from the company, or at least one that lives up to expectations. But if they make two they are going to be in trouble.

EA may be gambling that in 12 months time - which is the most likely time-frame we'll see a new game (Other than ME3) - people may have forgotten about DA2 enough that sales will not suffer.

#22
Ronin2006

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MrTijger wrote...

Ronin2006 wrote...

MrTijger wrote...

Oh wow, another TL:DR post with a rehash of the same arguments as presented before with the same 'my opinion is fact' attitude. Woohoo.

PS: Objectivity is not pretending your opinion is a fact.


The breadth and depth of your post is astounding.  I am well and truly awestruck at how you have meticulously picked apart my thread topic to demonstrate it's flaws and weaknesses and shown me the folly of my ways.


Indeed. Nice try on the putdown but I'm not going to bite Posted Image

In fact, at least when I discuss something I give it an explanation and reasoning.  I attempt to use logic so as not to keep it in the realm of just being an opinion, but demonstrate the process that has led me to a particular conclusion.  If you disagree with it, then that's fine, explain why.  In fact,  I wanted to elaborate on every point further, but didn't because this is an internet forum and people aren't usually that interested, nor do I have the energy to post something that long, but believe me I certainly could.


No, I have no interest to expound ad nauseam how wonderful my opinion is and how well I present it.

What you have done however,  is exactly what I have been trying to avoid and that is produce nothing more than an unsubstantiated opinion with little to back it up.


Yeah, a load of opinions without actual factual substance when it would be possible to give a quote even (the comment about Laidlaw for instance) is your idea of substantiating. Well done.

Edit:  If you have actually bothered reading my thread topic despite your "TL:DR" comment you'll see the amount of times I explicitly state "I honestly believe" and "In my opinion" or something along those lines.  If anything, I have fully acknowledged that my assessment of the game from a business perspective is purely based on opinion.  I'm happy to discuss my opinions even though I have attempted to come to them as objectively as possible.


Objective assumes you do not have a formed opinion, you, however, clearly do already have formed an opinion.
You simply pretend to build an argument to support only your conclusions and ignore anything that doesnt align with that. We call that disingenious.
It's nothing new, its nothing all that interesting, its just another person on the internet. Nobody cares

So, again, TL;DR, kthxbai!


Well, seeing as how you seem intent on not actually providing any counter argument and just want to dismiss this thread without contributing anything substantial to it, I suggest you post somewhere else.  I am happy to discuss my opinion and explain myself further (and provide a quote, or other more solid evidence, much to the detriment of the readability of this thread if it appeases you), but seeing as you won't listen and are unwilling to let me explain my position further, and have yourself already come to your own conclusions without anything to substantiate them, then the only logical conclusion is to respond in kind.

Goodbye, and hopefully I don't have to waste my time with your nonsense again.

Modifié par Ronin2006, 02 avril 2011 - 03:55 .


#23
AkiKishi

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MrTijger wrote...

WardenGriff wrote...

I have similar sentiments to the OP. Look at the chart of EA's stock in the past, I notice a good bump at end of their Fiscal Year. Seems like DA2 was the cash grab this time......


Soooo...wouldnt that make it a smart business move rather than a bad one?


In the short term. It's done a lot of damage to both the DA IP and Biowares brand though. Whether the short term quick fix was worth it remains to be seen. Same thing happened with Westwood just before lights out remember ? Spiraling mediocrity.

All eyes will be on ME3 now for a number of reasons.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 01 avril 2011 - 04:58 .


#24
Rockpopple

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Somehow, I think they'll be alright.

#25
Ronin2006

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MrTijger wrote...

WardenGriff wrote...

I have similar sentiments to the OP. Look at the chart of EA's stock in the past, I notice a good bump at end of their Fiscal Year. Seems like DA2 was the cash grab this time......


Soooo...wouldnt that make it a smart business move rather than a bad one?


Not necessarily.  This comes back to what I refer to as the shortsightedness of the business strategy.  While a "cash grab" may look good on the financial statements and please shareholders in the immediate fiscal year, there are other more intangible assets in a business that are harmed when this occurs.  If the "cash grab" doesn't come from a very high quality product then consumer "good will" and the reputation of the business from a consumer perspective are potentially harmed.  Ultimately, if the consumers actually view it as a "cash grab", which many people do, they won't be parting with their 'cash' again as readily in the future.

Seeing however, as this is MrTijger, I assume that they will say that what I typed was just opinion and not worth anything and what they say is correct despite having no real content.