219 réponses à ce sujet

[Paeyne]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Paeyne wrote...

DRM

I have the Xbox version so I can't really comment on this.  I will say that piracy is a huge problem.  I can't really blame Bioware wanting to protect their intellectual property, hard work and substantial monetary investment.  If that means that I am slightly inconvenienced I will live with that.

Have a search for articles on DRM and piracy by Brad Wardell CEO of Stardock; and tell me again Piracy is a huge problem.

I did as you asked and I still have to stand by my original comment.

Piracy is a problem, even Mr. Wardell admits that.  The question lies as to what to do about it.  Mr Wardell's position is that, instead of penalizing the buying public they should encourage people to purchase the software by rewarding them with incentives for purchasing.  Its an interesting concept but I am not sure how realistic it is.

When I leave my house every morning I lock my front door.  Is that a tremendous deterrent for anyone who wishes to break into my house?  No, not in the slightest.  All you would need to do is break the glass in the door and open the dead bolt.  Your average six year old could break into my house if they felt the need (possibly younger if they could reach the lock).   Any police officer can tell you that locks on doors are usually a psychological deterrent at best.  I still lock the door every day.

Anyone who is sufficiently determined can get around whatever measures you put in place.  I understand that.  However I do not accept that as a reasonable argument to abandon putting any measures into the software.  Some measures are certainly more onerous than others.  Having to contact security servers every ten days strikes me as unreasonable, but so does having little to no security at all.

I remember the days when you had to type in a random word from a fifty page manual every time you started a game.  I remember the days when some games had triple code wheels with psuedo Arabic runes you had to key in every hour  that you played.  Having the game contact a server every once in a while seems pretty tame compared to that.  I do understand, though, that it would be problematic if you didn't have an internet connection.

[scpulley]

Someone already said it, unfortunately DA 2 was extremely well marketed, it have a very short development cycle, thus lower overhead for development cost, so in the end, was it bad for business? Hard to call that one, I don't know how much EA/Bioware really NEEDED to get from the game to turn profit. The impression i got was they didn't need much. From an actual business perspective if they made a profit on the game, which it appears they will I'd think simply on name alone, it doesn't matter what we the fans think or the reviews are. Those only effect the future of the franchise, not the current game if you think about it. The things the OP mentioned may be true, but that's not necessarily things that will cause this game to be a bad business venture for EA/Bioware. It may have hurt reputation and future pre-orders for that series, but that doesn't mean they got what all good businesses expect to get, lots of money. I can not like the game or the vaguely insulting comments ML made about people that didn't 'get' his game, but the truth is they have my money so they really don't have to care, I'm already invested money wise.

Modifié par scpulley, 03 avril 2011 - 08:18 .

[Hatchetman77]

What sucks is if they put in more development time they probably could have milked much more money out of us than this rushed effort.  They could have fully fleshed out Kirkwall, creating side quests involving NPC's that you can talk to and get to know, merchants that are affected my your actions (where decisions may make one merchant go out of business and another prosper) and districts that would change over time depending on the decisions you make (like mabey giving Hawke the option of either being a Robin Hood type figure helping the downtrodden or a crimelord exploiting those that can't protect themselves, where mabey Darktown can be a prosperous trade district because of your actions or just stay a slum) all the while concentrated on the Mage/Templar conflict as a central questline throughout entire game.  If they had spent the time on fully fleshing out Kirkwall and giving us choices that matter then the excellent Qunari subplot could have been totally removed from the game at launch and added mabey six months down the line in an Awakenings type expansion.  I would have been happy with the awesome game, critics would say how awesome the expansion was and BioWare would have gotten an additional $40.00 for the expansion from me on top of the $60.00 for the initial game.

If they had just taken the time and created a Kirkwall that I wanted to keep going back to then they could have added DLC's and expansions to their heart's content and have milked this game for the entire two or three years while they made DA3, and I'd have happily lapped it all up.

[Horus Blackheart]

While I understand your point about an expansion Hatchetman77, I dont think removing content from the main game and repackaging it would go down to well. DLC already has the perseption of being content thats riped out to resell later true or not. I've been thinking about the problem some more, and its not simple in alot of cases bioware are attempting to give people what thay ask for

However bioware end up giving people what bioware thinks people asked for which is not the same thing. i,e people wanted more responsive combat. That is somthing devs and suits can both understand, Unfortunatly alot of people wanted an end to unweldy and clunky animations not an overly flashy shallow exp that is overly dependent on waves.

It may bethat the implamentation came down to what could be done with in the development cycle, however I would have gladly putup with slightly clunky animations if it ment a richer over all story and exp. Selectivly listening is not really listening and it comes across as not really caring ether way whether that was the entent or not.

[JasmoVT]

EA quarterly data should be out around May 1. My know something, assuming DA2 even rates a mention. By far it is the sports games that are most important products in the EA line. As to appearing to be little more than a platform to which theyplan to attach DLC, well that make sense given they have identified expansion of the DLC lnes as a get part of their profit plan. This may not be what we want, but as small developers are axquired by the big companies it is what we should expect.

[Cybermortis]

DA2's graphics are worse than DAO, or at least more rushed. This is a fact that can be seen from the endless clipping issues in DA2.

Examples; If you wear a shield then a sword will pass though it when it is stored on a characters back. Staves always pass through characters legs when running. Rarely are characters feet on the ground surface, they are almost always rest inside the ground. Plants can be seen passing through solid blocks of stone. One dead character in the game can be seen levitating a good three feet off the ground in one cut-scene. Hands frequently pass through legs when characters are talking, this even occurs in the Varric narrations. Projectiles will often pass through the corners of walls. Many staves with long projections on the end will pass into the ground when a character is standing there - regardless of the ground level.

None of these problems is a sign of good graphics, or of much work having been done to correct these issues. Nor are a lot of these issues things that only appear once in the while and therefore are hard to spot. They are a clear sign of a badly rushed game, in which the developers have simply not been given the time to address them. It is also worrying because had they used the exact same designs/programming (that is without major alterations) as was used in DAO without modification none of these would have appeared and the game would have looked just as good. Indeed to me DAO looked at least as good if not better than DA2.


FFXIII maybe a bad comparison to DA2. The scores I'm seeing for the game indicate it was considered at least as good as most of the earlier games - and in fact it scores higher than the first 5 games. It should also be noted that the game sold as many copies in Japan in its first week as it sold in the USA in its first month. (around 1 million in each area). Given the differences in market sizes it is therefore clear that the game series is far more popular in Japan than the USA.

[BlackIce541]

Dagiz wrote...

From VG charts, looks like across all three platforms the game is over a million copies sold.  

http://gamrreview.vg...e=dragon age II

PC  SALES :

http://gamrreview.vg.../dragon-age-ii/

XBOX  SALES

http://gamrreview.vg.../dragon-age-ii/

PS3 SALES

http://gamrreview.vg.../dragon-age-ii/

I think the demis of the franchise is simply not an accurate statement or to even be hinted at.  1 million copies across all three platforms sold.  What's intersting is that thye graph out sales....huge bump first week and then kinda leveling off.  I'd be interested, if I had the time - maybe I'll make the time - to do a chart comparison of like games. 

What's ridiculous is that Pokeman is on top across all platforms at nearing 100million units sold....that is just...ugh. 

Aww, I loved Pokemon...

[Zeevico]

I don't mind the combat as such. It's not the bees' knees or what have you, but it's not bad. Is it an improvement over DAO? It's different. Certainly not worse. I like combat in DA2 (mostly).
As it is though, I really can't see myself buying any more DLCs or expansions to DA2 if they're made in the same half-hearted spirit as DA2. I certainly won't preorder.
At this point I'd chip in maybe another $20 for a DLC called DA2: "All the things we chose not to put in this game, but really ought to have." It'd come feature packed with all the dialogue, plot development and character interaction, and choices that went missing from "DA2." But that's not going to happen.

New individual quests and such? No way. Not if Sebastian's quest-line is any indicator of what's to come. Don't get me wrong: it's at the same quality as the rest of DA2, storywise. Meaning: less character interaction, less plot development, and less content. What did we learn about his enemies? Well, maybe 10 lines of dialogue will reveal that terrible secret. Phew, glad we got the story out of the way--I was worried it might get interesting. Oh, and those mercenaries he's out to kill? They're mooks. Run of the mill mooks. Thanks, Bioware. Outstanding work on Vale's contribution to the first Act. I remember a certain character called Shale who somehow--somehow--managed to interact with characters throughout the entirety of DAO.
People compare this game to ME2 or ME, but the fact is that they were much better games. ME2 was well polished. So was ME1 (repetitive map layouts aside for the MINOR sidequests as opposed to THE ENTIRE GAME).
This game is not well polished by any stretch of the imagination. Even if they were trying to "streamline" DA, they failed to make a good "streamlined" version of this game.
Good luck getting people to buy an expansion. Or DLCs.
Given the amount of resources you allocated to this game, it would have been better if it were shorter and more focused on key plot quests and key sidequests. This was what ME2 did (I hardly need to tell you as much, I'm sure).
The outcome of your efforts is that you spread yourself out too thin and dumped us with a lot of shallow fetch quests. "Sketchy on the details?" How about "Sketchy on the 2 lines of dialogue?"
You need much more character interaction. Ground your story in a world like you know how to do.

Can't be bothered putting in hurlock or genlock emissary character animations? No worries: just use the standard arcane horror animation. WHO COULD TELL THE DIFFERENCE?

Mind you, I've played BG2, ME, and ME2. I loved all three. This? This pales in comparison.

Modifié par Zeevico, 03 avril 2011 - 01:24 .

[Horus Blackheart]

Well put

[dj1917]

I doubt i'll be buying many Bioware titles in future. First ME2, now this. They're treating their customers like idiots.

[TUHD]

What the problem with DA2 is, was nicely put by the reviewer of PC Magazine: 'Dragon Age II tries to appeal both RPG- and hack&slash fans, and comes up short at both fronts'. They want to appeal to the COD-type of players while keeping their old fan base. With Mass Effect that goes well because it is an TPS/RPG.
Dragon Age however, is action/RPG... but if in case they want to keep their old fan base, they must make a choice... since the DA-universe isn't suited for being both hack&slash and action RPG at the same time. People are expecting (action) RPGs since the introduction of DA:O. Either rename the IP, or abandon a part of the new stuff, since trying to do it the current way only damages the Bioware brand, and thereby future sales.

I am too tired atm to work it out the way I planned it to, but for those flaming the OP: get lost, reviews and analyses are always 'opinions' when looking into the future. But an 'opinion' becomes an good analyzation when solidly funded with good reasons, being well argued and source material - which the OP seems to have.

[TUHD]

dj1917 wrote...

I doubt i'll be buying many Bioware titles in future. First ME2, now this. They're treating their customers like idiots.

Personally, I LOVE Mass Effect 2, but I utterly despise DA 2.... Difference? ME2 didn't feel rushed and empty... while DA2 does. Other difference? In the true professional reviews (so not those opinions bought by EA/Bioware from PC Gamer etc), Mass Effect 2 gets all positive notes - of course a few flaws, but overall positive. Dragon Age 2 however, is getting pretty serious slaps from the more professional reviewers.

[dj1917]

TUHD: Don't get me wrong, I liked ME2 (but didn't love It) but it wasn't an RPG or true sequel to the first game. I don't only play RPGs and am partial to an FPS or adventure-type game like ME2 occasionally. But when I buy the sequel to an RPG, it's because I want an RPG, and I think it's reasonable to expect a sequel to be broadly the same type of game as the original. That's what I meant by first ME2, now DA2- both times I thought I would be getting an RPG with lots of depth, character-customisation and most importantly, lots of areas to freely explore with new ones opening up as the game progresses. Both times I got something quite different, which I still like but it isn't what I thought I was paying for. My problem now is that I have a serious RPG 'itch' right now that DA2 just isn't scratching... am I going to have to buy Two Worlds II? ****, I wIsh I could afford a PC that ran games made after 2006! With Bioware going in this direction, us poor console-owning RPG gamers have very little to choose from.

[TUHD]

dj1917 wrote...

TUHD: Don't get me wrong, I liked ME2 (but didn't love It) but it wasn't an RPG or true sequel to the first game. I don't only play RPGs and am partial to an FPS or adventure-type game like ME2 occasionally. But when I buy the sequel to an RPG, it's because I want an RPG, and I think it's reasonable to expect a sequel to be broadly the same type of game as the original. That's what I meant by first ME2, now DA2- both times I thought I would be getting an RPG with lots of depth, character-customisation and most importantly, lots of areas to freely explore with new ones opening up as the game progresses. Both times I got something quite different, which I still like but it isn't what I thought I was paying for. My problem now is that I have a serious RPG 'itch' right now that DA2 just isn't scratching... am I going to have to buy Two Worlds II? ****, I wIsh I could afford a PC that ran games made after 2006! With Bioware going in this direction, us poor console-owning RPG gamers have very little to choose from.

True enough, but ME2 going more shooter didn't surprise me in the least, since the RPG-department of ME1 already was only supporting the shooter-department (aka, it wasn't like the stats decided whether you hitted or not... you'd need to shoot and aim yourself).
While what BW has done with DA2 is horrendous, since an core RPG going hack&slash-'shoota' is completely different. Mass Effect just moved up a little bit on the line between the 2 'niches' it serves, while Dragon Age got boned out, wiped clean, messed with and then sold as a successor.

[Turran]

You took my scrambled, unorganised thoughts and sorted them correctly, while running spell-check and then put them into a well done post, limiting insults and putting a good solid point across. Well done good sir.

[Ronin2006]

TUHD wrote...

I am too tired atm to work it out the way I planned it to, but for those flaming the OP: get lost, reviews and analyses are always 'opinions' when looking into the future. But an 'opinion' becomes an good analyzation when solidly funded with good reasons, being well argued and source material - which the OP seems to have.

Turran wrote...

You took my scrambled, unorganised thoughts and sorted them correctly, while running spell-check and then put them into a well done post, limiting insults and putting a good solid point across. Well done good sir.

Thanks for the kind words.  Glad you guys enjoyed my post.

[Horus Blackheart]

I found the thread engaging and refreshing to be honest. while I have lurked on the boards for along time(going back to the nwn days I have just recently started posting any sort of sustained contribution.

[Hatchetman77]

Horus Blackheart wrote...

While I understand your point about an expansion Hatchetman77, I dont think removing content from the main game and repackaging it would go down to well. DLC already has the perseption of being content thats riped out to resell later true or not. I've been thinking about the problem some more, and its not simple in alot of cases bioware are attempting to give people what thay ask for

Well, first of all we'd never know it was removed if it wasen't in at launch.  Plus, it's not removing content, it's fully fleshing out your main story content and adding secondary content later.  While the Qunari was probably the best done content in the game, it really didn't have anything to do with the main story.  It was it's own self contrained story with a contrived connection to Hawke's rise to becomming the champion.  ANYTHING could have been substitued in to create a situation where Hawke becomes champion.  The dragon from the mine could have attacked the city and Hawke defeating it could have made him Champion.  The Qunari content should have been cut out of the original game.  It was only put in because the main story content was pretty light.  The area in the story where the Qunari was placed should have been focussed on Hawke's improved status having him become more involved in the city politics which would ease us into the final conflict in the last part of the game.  The Qunari, while well done content if taken out of the context of the game's story, really bogs down the flow of the narritive.  It would have been much better to release it as an expansion.  It would have made the original game's story better, it would have been better financially for BioWare, as well it would have been a kick ass expansion that everyone would rave over.  

But that;s just my opinion from someone who's major gripe is the story and didn't mind the combat all that much (aside from the paratrooper reinforcements which really bugged me) 

Modifié par Hatchetman77, 03 avril 2011 - 07:18 .

[Horus Blackheart]

When I talk about 'removing content i'm talking about how launch DLC is perceived by some. an futher I was responding to your expansion example and pointing out the perception issue it would cause that's all i'e 'this was going to be in the main game but we took it out and repackaged iit (for the best of reasons) and now you get to pay extra. Do you see why that would look like a slap in the face?

[Cybermortis]

'Removing' content and having it as a DLC is fine IF it is used to reward anyone who buys a new copy of the game - as The Stone Prisoner did.

It is not fine when it is removed and used as a DLC you either have to pay for directly through downloading or by buying a more expensive copy of the game. The complaints about the Sebastian DLC seem to be that people paid more for something that should have been available to all those who bought a new copy - not just those that bought the special edition (or whatever it was called).

Likewise DLC that develops the story is fine, as long as it isn't something that really should have been in the game from the start - such as being able to play Hawke in Lothering and getting to know his/her family.

Modifié par Cybermortis, 03 avril 2011 - 07:50 .

[MrTijger]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Have a search for articles on DRM and piracy by Brad Wardell CEO of Stardock; and tell me again Piracy is a huge problem.

I know Mr Wardell' views but as it stands his view is very much in the minority plus Stardock' games use online activivation so they too use a form of DRM.
Furthermore I feel every company has the unalienable right to protect their IP in whatever legal manner they choose, if I dont like their way I wont do business with them ie. buy their games.

I also stated that DRM is not used to stop piracy because they know it wont work, what they intend to do is make life difficult for the casual piracy user, the large majority of people are generally only willing to jump through a certain amount of hoops, once past that point they dont bother pirating a game. Note this does not apply to all and never was intended to either.

Any other posts in this topic will have to wait until tomorrow to get answered, some of us actually have a life, you see

Modifié par MrTijger, 03 avril 2011 - 07:59 .

[Horus Blackheart]

stardock use DRM only at the request of the publisher they dont have any in there own titles. you register that's it and by that I mean declare you have a boxed copy.

[BounceDK]

At least you can buy terrain and missing content for another $60. That's a 120 dollar game and not even a good one either. Yep, Bioware is truly in the EA camp now.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

I like Mass Effect.

I like Dragon Age.

I liked them when they were separate games.

[Horus Blackheart]

just wait soon there will be cross overs powered by magic mirrors weeeeee

note this is not an example of a good idea devs