219 réponses à ce sujet

[MrTijger]

Horus Blackheart wrote...

stardock use DRM only at the request of the publisher they dont have any in there own titles. you register that's it and by that I mean declare you have a boxed copy.

Oh, wait, you think that copy protection schemes on an actual CD is all that DRM entails? Oh dear...yes, in that case you'd be right, but you're very wrong when stating that Stardock does not use DRM.

[ScotGaymer]

MrTijger wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Have a search for articles on DRM and piracy by Brad Wardell CEO of Stardock; and tell me again Piracy is a huge problem.

I know Mr Wardell' views but as it stands his view is very much in the minority plus Stardock' games use online activivation so they too use a form of DRM.
Furthermore I feel every company has the unalienable right to protect their IP in whatever legal manner they choose, if I dont like their way I wont do business with them ie. buy their games.

I also stated that DRM is not used to stop piracy because they know it wont work, what they intend to do is make life difficult for the casual piracy user, the large majority of people are generally only willing to jump through a certain amount of hoops, once past that point they dont bother pirating a game. Note this does not apply to all and never was intended to either.

Any other posts in this topic will have to wait until tomorrow to get answered, some of us actually have a life, you see

Of course they can lol.

My point was more that Mr Wardell disagree's on how to tackle the "problem" or piracy while also disagreeing with the general industry assertion that piracy is this HUGE RAMPANT PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its a problem yes. Is it as huge a problem as a lot of the big companies and people make out? No. At least perhaps not for the gaming industry; games these days are big things that take up a lot of space and often require "tweaking" to get working on the various disparate systems out there; they are often bigger than movies in size.
Therefore they arent as easy to download/pirate as say a cd is.

The type of person who is most likely to "pirate" are people who dont have masses of money or time, and want to download something entertaining for little to no cost that wont be too bothersome to obtain. Big downloads are bothersome by virtue of their very size.
At least thats my experience with these sorts of things, and people.

With that in mind its fairly safe to assume that the gaming industry isnt as afflicted by piracy as badly as say the recording industry or hollywood.
Piracy is driving Artists and Recording studios (and music outlets) out of business; is the same thing happening to developers and publishing houses on as big a scale? No.

Of course there is no real way to quantify the impact "piracy" has on any given industry give we dont know how many people in actuality do it.

[MrTijger]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Of course they can lol.

My point was more that Mr Wardell disagree's on how to tackle the "problem" or piracy while also disagreeing with the general industry assertion that piracy is this HUGE RAMPANT PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its a problem yes. Is it as huge a problem as a lot of the big companies and people make out? No. At least perhaps not for the gaming industry; games these days are big things that take up a lot of space and often require "tweaking" to get working on the various disparate systems out there; they are often bigger than movies in size.
Therefore they arent as easy to download/pirate as say a cd is.

The type of person who is most likely to "pirate" are people who dont have masses of money or time, and want to download something entertaining for little to no cost that wont be too bothersome to obtain. Big downloads are bothersome by virtue of their very size.
At least thats my experience with these sorts of things, and people.

With that in mind its fairly safe to assume that the gaming industry isnt as afflicted by piracy as badly as say the recording industry or hollywood.
Piracy is driving Artists and Recording studios (and music outlets) out of business; is the same thing happening to developers and publishing houses on as big a scale? No.

Of course there is no real way to quantify the impact "piracy" has on any given industry give we dont know how many people in actuality do it.

Point is, very few people actually REALLY read what Brad Wardell said which is that he thinks that the impact on sales from piracy isnt as much of an issue, he doesnt believe Stardock loses many sales because of piracy because those that pirate wouldnt buy the game anyway.
He does not state they dont use DRM because they do, they dont use CD copy protection schemes but he states they dont use DRM 'As we currently know it'.
Time has moved on since then and now everyone is doing what Stardock did which was online authentication, some go very far with that and with others its a one time check, its still DRM however.

As for the impact of piracy, besides it being a totally seperate discussion, I dont believe there is a reasonable quantifier however, I will say that PC gaming has been the most severly impacted by it but its very unclear how high that impact is, some studios have claimed it so rampant they are considering dropping PC games entirely, others say its not such a big issue. The only thing the industry really fears are 0 day cracks, those do (apparently) have a direct impact on sales.

[Horus Blackheart]

MrTijger wrote...

Horus Blackheart wrote...

stardock use DRM only at the request of the publisher they dont have any in there own titles. you register that's it and by that I mean declare you have a boxed copy.

Oh, wait, you think that copy protection schemes on an actual CD is all that DRM entails? Oh dear...yes, in that case you'd be right, but you're very wrong when stating that Stardock does not use DRM.

No it's clear you are being selective on the parts you are picking up. So letme simplify it for you.

there is stardock the publisher vs stardock the digtal distrobution method. stardock the publisher uses no drm on there products only a regstration requirement as i said. Stardock the service uses drm at the third party publishers request.

Is that clearer for you?

[MrTijger]

Horus Blackheart wrote...

Oh, wait, you think that copy protection schemes on an actual CD is all that DRM entails? Oh dear...yes, in that case you'd be right, but you're very wrong when stating that Stardock does not use DRM.

No it's clear you are being selective on the parts you are picking up. So letme simplify it for you.

there is stardock the publisher vs stardock the digtal distrobution method. stardock the publisher uses no drm on there products only a regstration requirement as i said. Stardock the service uses drm at the third party publishers request.

Is that clearer for you?

Not really since they're all the same company. There's only one Stardock, founded by Brad Wardell who stills runs it. They have a digital publishing platform, currently on their 3rd generation called Impulse but its all the same company.

Modifié par MrTijger, 03 avril 2011 - 10:02 .

[neppakyo]

I'm sorry, but to continue this conversation you will have to enter your 84 character alpha-numeric Serial Number and wait for on-line validation. Thank you for your patronage.

[Horus Blackheart]

neppakyo wrote...

I'm sorry, but to continue this conversation you will have to enter your 84 character alpha-numeric Serial Number and wait for on-line validation. Thank you for your patronage.

that is so you can get extras and so on you can still install and use the program on any computer resell it what ever unlike somthing like steam (which i like but anyway.its not the same as DRM in that the regstration dose not limit your rights.

[Cybermortis]

 RIGHTS!? What are you a bleeding communist? 
Reported to homeland security for anti-capitalist sentiments. 

[neppakyo]

Validation has failed. This conversation has now ended, as its now against paragraph 13, subsection 42.1 of the EULA.

Lawyers have now been contacted, all users will be getting a subpoena for said violations.

Modifié par neppakyo, 03 avril 2011 - 10:42 .

[Horus Blackheart]

fair enough I never really wanted to get sidetracked on the drm topic anyway.

[Ronin2006]

Horus Blackheart wrote...

fair enough I never really wanted to get sidetracked on the drm topic anyway.

True, there are a lot of other issues to discuss in regards to EA/Bioware's business strategy with DA 2 and we seemed to have gotten sidetracked with just the DRM.

[orpheus333]

 When it comes to the short development cycle all i can really think is that DA:O didn;t sell well enough to justify the amount of time it was in development. DA2 was the pushed out quickly in order to cover DA:O's shortfall. In my mind letting your players wait for another year or two is a simpler, more cost effective way over generating interest in a much loved franchise. 

[neppakyo]

andyr1986 wrote...

 When it comes to the short development cycle all i can really think is that DA:O didn;t sell well enough to justify the amount of time it was in development. DA2 was the pushed out quickly in order to cover DA:O's shortfall. In my mind letting your players wait for another year or two is a simpler, more cost effective way over generating interest in a much loved franchise. 

Just to let you know, DA:O was done before EA 'bought' bioware, and a lot of the dev time was used writing a new engine, and a new universe, so imho that arguement if yours is invalid.

[Ronin2006]

Ronin2006 wrote...


[list=1]




[*]Mike Laidlaw dismissing some of the concerns of disillusioned DA O fans.  Honestly, no business wants to alienate it's core/existing customers.  Some of the things that have been stated are not going to endear him to people who have been loyal customers of Bioware.  (this is regardless of whether he is right or not, the fact is a lot of the DA O fans felt that he has criticised them personally by failing to really acknowledge their concerns and complaints in interviews)

I wonder if this has changed for some people after the *cough* "apology" thread?  My feeling is that the damage has been done, although others are probably more forgiving.

My interpretation of Mr Laidlaw's response was that although he has eaten some humble pie, he is still determined to head in the overall direction that DA 2 was heading towards.  He looks like addressing some of the major concerns, but nevertheless seems determined to try to find that big pot of gold under the rainbow that doesn't actually exist. (Getting the mainstream gamer, or "COD" crowd to embrace fantasy RPGs).

Anyway, despite my criticisms of the game, I do genuinely hope that Bioware learns from some of the mistakes they have made, and creates a truly excellent game in the future.  (I just won't be pre-ordering it and taking it home on day 1 this time)

[culletron1]

I agree with OP 100%....

Everyone was talking about Bioware selling out for money but because of this below par product they have damaged their reputation in the minds of core fans and thus are going to make less money as a result. For instance, I certainly won't be pre-ordering from them again...

Just terrible business...

[FiachSidhe]

Zmajc wrote...
If i want to play a shooter i'll play a shooter, if i want to play an action adventure i'll play Darksiders, Gear of War or God of War, if i want to play an RPG i will play an RPG not a wannabe RPG who trys hard not to be one.

Funny how a slightly faster version of the SAME system suddenly makes it a different genre. This is why you never buy your logic at a gas station folks.

Nah but you're right brah, RPG = autoattack.

[In Exile]

Ronin2006,

I don't know why you see the ''Thank You'' letter as an apology. It acknowledged some of the sentiment sorrounding DA2, and gave a list of the issues raised that Bioware is willing to publically acknowledge. There was no firm commitment other than (potentially) DA3 and future DA2 products must be better than DA2.

[Ronin2006]

In Exile wrote...

Ronin2006,

I don't know why you see the ''Thank You'' letter as an apology. It acknowledged some of the sentiment sorrounding DA2, and gave a list of the issues raised that Bioware is willing to publically acknowledge. There was no firm commitment other than (potentially) DA3 and future DA2 products must be better than DA2.

Are you sure you even read my post?

Actually, if the fact that I wrote "*cough* "apology" thread" didn't clue you in to the fact that I personally don't think of it as such, and that I was making fun of it being referred to in this manner, then I'll explain it a little further.

Other forum posters who shall remain nameless for now (so I don't get banned), have referred to it in such a manner.  In fact, one poster in particular called it this, and that amused me to no end.

Despite the vague nature of the letter, some people think that it is in some way a redeeming letter, and that perhaps all should be forgiven as Bioware strive to make a better game in the future.

For me personally, reading between the lines of the letter, I saw it as being from someone who is very stubborn and only grudgingly accepting of criticism for the simple fact that the criticism has become so overwhelming that he has to try to placate it somehow.  I felt that he still believes that DA 2 was a good game, and thus the future games in the series are likely to be in the same direction, but with a few small amendments.  The fact that Mr Laidlaw felt the need to abstain from the forums in order to post in a professional manner speaks volumes about his character and his ability to handle widespread criticism in the heat of the moment (it's much easier to take a step back , then it is to face the fire and the wrath at it's most vicious).  

There appears to still be an insistance that the overall direction of that he has taken the series is the correct one, and that there is more "potential" in this direction, and that appealing to the masses with a series grounded in fantasy epic RPG storytelling is still a possibility.  Good luck to him on that, I wish him the best, though I think he is massively misguided.

So, no, I don't think it's an actual "apology" thread.  I was having a dig at some others on this forum who think of it as such, and I have given you a brief explanation of what I actually think of the letter.

Modifié par Ronin2006, 05 juin 2011 - 07:21 .

[TheRaj]

re: OP

I think its a little harsh to call Bioware's decisions 'stupid and shortsighted' for several reasons.

1. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It may have seemed like sensible decisions at the time, and they probably had a lot of internal discussions that yeilded some pretty convincing arguments.

2. I don't yet know if its stupid until I look at EA's balance sheet compared to their competitors, and see how DA2 effects future sales. Its all speculation. The changes in direction might turn out to be the best thing for Bioware in the long run, but perhaps not for you or me.

3. Sometimes its good to try a new direction, even if it doesn't work.

4. The 'Laidlaw hates fans' thing is a bit of an overreaction. Everyone needs to calm down.

Basically, I didn't really like the direction taken by Bioware here, but I'm a long way from accusing them of stupidity.

Modifié par TheRaj, 05 juin 2011 - 01:39 .

[Beerfish]

God forbid we should have a developer or a person that is willing to stick up for the good parts of game that was made and actually takes offence to the being down right slandered in forum posts by some. I am not one that feels that a developer or store clerk or waiter should have to suck you know what of every customer that blathers on endlessly and with little tact about a problem they have.

Laidlaw probably hates the moronic fans that totally focus on the negatives of a game, totally ignore the postiives of a game and slander the writers, designers and all people involved with the game.

[Elhanan]

And we thought Raise Dead was not in DA *looks at thread date*....

[Ronin2006]

Beerfish wrote...

God forbid we should have a developer or a person that is willing to stick up for the good parts of game that was made and actually takes offence to the being down right slandered in forum posts by some. I am not one that feels that a developer or store clerk or waiter should have to suck you know what of every customer that blathers on endlessly and with little tact about a problem they have.

Laidlaw probably hates the moronic fans that totally focus on the negatives of a game, totally ignore the postiives of a game and slander the writers, designers and all people involved with the game.

There are actually positives to the game ... just not that many compared to the negatives.  I certainly couldn't write many posts on what I did like about the game, but I did like the following:

Varric

Aveline

Some (not all) of the voice acting

Qunari designs

Some (not all) of the spell animations (though not the combat animations generally)

The fact that it made me replay DA O

The fact that it got me on to the Witcher

Hmmm.... I'm trying to put my best and most positive thoughts into this, but that's about as much as I can think of.

Edit - I actually liked the way they handled the mabari companion in this game.

Modifié par Ronin2006, 05 juin 2011 - 11:45 .

[BeefoTheBold]

Excellent TC first post. I agree with all of it.

[erynnar]

*peeks in thread and slowly backs out shutting the door*

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

Who the eff necro'd this abomination of a thread? Someone summon Moderatus, before it causes a cataclysm.