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The truth behind Dragon Age


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#1
lorvincent

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The truth behind the Old Gods:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/6862136/2#6884280

The truth behind Flemeth: 
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/6877041/1#6884371

The post that started it all:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/5740722/3#6824986

If you haven't been following this in detail, the following will probably not make sense to you, but I wish to discuss the most important quote from Dragon Age 2.

"One day the magic will come back - all of it. Everyone will be just like
they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see."
-- Sandal

There have been two theories concerning who "he" is.  One theory is the Maker.  I think thats hogwash, as the maker is gone, and I doubt he'll be coming back into the story, at least for a while.  Another reason I doubt it is the maker is because it specifically says, "When he rises", which suggests an ascention to power.  The maker is... well... the maker!  The most powerful being in Dragon Age could just "return" but has no need to "rise".  If this was about the Maker, it would say "When he returns".

So who is it about?  As most people believe, it is probably about the god child. But what does this mean?

I hope you read the links I gave you.  They happen to be important.

I'll say what I've said all along.  This story is Dragon Age for a reason...

"One day the magic will come back - all of it. Everyone will be just like
they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see."
-- Sandal

When the godchild rises, everyone will see.  The shadows will part and thee skies will open wide...


Dragons are returning to Thedas. All of them.

Modifié par lorvincent, 01 avril 2011 - 08:20 .


#2
Raiil

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I'm probably going to sound like an idiot, but when does Sandal say that?

#3
Malja

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Randomly in your estate in response to you clicking on him.

DG also noted it has a ridiculously small chance of occurring. I only encountered it by intentionally fishing for it, not casually.

Modifié par Malja, 01 avril 2011 - 03:19 .


#4
Bayz

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Haven't they returned to Thedas already? I killed several during Origins already.

Also I do know that ASOIAF is a reference, but ripping off the "Magic returns when the dragons return" that blatantly...

#5
Maria Caliban

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Bayz wrote...

Haven't they returned to Thedas already? I killed several during Origins already.

Also I do know that ASOIAF is a reference, but ripping off the "Magic returns when the dragons return" that blatantly...


Magic returns when dragons returns is something that the OP made up. Dragons were never extinct. There was a period of several decades where there were no dragon sightings, but also thousands of years where dragons were 'common' and Thedas was just like we see it in the games.

If the magic does return, it will probably be in the age after the current one.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 01 avril 2011 - 03:34 .


#6
DamnThoseDisplayNames

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Btw, what's people opinion on:
"When you see an Abyss.. don't hesitate to leap" line?
(Apart from vulgar Isabela-about correspondence)
I thought it could actually mean that Flemeth advises Hawke to spare Anderses life and rally mages, cause it would bring more chaos to world than siding with templars.
"Opinions?"

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 01 avril 2011 - 04:10 .


#7
Bayz

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I think she basically encourages Hawke to take a side with that line when the time comes. Not necesarily Mages or Templars (as after all the change she probably wants to happen happens either way)

Maybe if Hawke would stood iddle in the fight the change wouldn't have happened...and then maybe the game would have ended in Lothering :devil:

#8
rma2110

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Maybe it is Morrigan's baby that will rise in DA3, but what does this have to do with Hawke? Will the decisions Hawke make now and in the future make it harder for the OGB or pave the way? Why is Flemeth playing such an active role in all this?

#9
OraVelnoria87

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Didn't the Devs say that the God Child won't play a major role since they may not exist? In one of my playthroughs my fem-warden doesn't make Alistair sleep with Morrigan, and he slays the archdemon and dies. :\\

#10
christrek1982

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note on the god chiled has enyone concidered that Morigan may only want this child as a host? after all she dose have the book now that tells her how to do the body swop thing. and he also says the more power a host has the easyer the transfer.

just thaght I'd put it out there

#11
Bayz

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What makes you think that of a charming and kind lady always filled with good desires for everyone and ponies and rainbows and kittens?

#12
Kijin

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Maria Caliban wrote...

Bayz wrote...

Haven't they returned to Thedas already? I killed several during Origins already.

Also I do know that ASOIAF is a reference, but ripping off the "Magic returns when the dragons return" that blatantly...


Magic returns when dragons returns is something that the OP made up. Dragons were never extinct. There was a period of several decades where there were no dragon sightings, but also thousands of years where dragons were 'common' and Thedas was just like we see it in the games.

If the magic does return, it will probably be in the age after the current one.


If you click on Sandal enough, he will spout off a strange prophesy. Lorvincent is suggesting that the Dragons will "return" on mass in one of the coming Dragon Age games. Dragons used to be common, but they were then hunted almost to extinction. Lorvincent is arguing that this will soon change. 

If you disagree with his interpretation, then provide your own. This thread is speculation - but it is still interesting to think abou

#13
_Aine_

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lorvincent wrote...


"One day the magic will come back - all of it. Everyone will be just like
they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see."
-- Sandal

When the godchild rises, everyone will see.  The shadows will part and thee skies will open wide...


Sandal suddenly became an extremely well-written savant in the time between act 2 and 3?   When was this said?

People who are just existing or born do not "rise".  The dead rise.
Maybe it is Anders, rising from the dead. 
Or someone, you know, dead, rising.  

:lol:

I am more interested in the attribution to Sandal. Seriously, he enchants my stuff and saves the day.  If he is THAT literate Isabella has a tome from the Qunari that I want a copy of.  Seriously?  I missed this???  Please share. :) 

EDIT: saw the link.  Ok, Sandal my boy, enough of your time at the Hanged Man.  The cheap ale has taken a very, very creepy turn. LOL 

Modifié par shantisands, 02 avril 2011 - 02:00 .


#14
Talladarr

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I got a little speculation here. Hear me out for a second, what I got may be rubbish, but it's something. Assuming these Archdemons are the Old Gods of Tevinter, then what if what kills the Archdemons is nothing like what we think it is? Perhaps, if you do Morrigan's Dark Ritual it simply pulls the soul apart form the taint, then pulls the soul out of the Archdemon, and in fact THAT is waht kills the Archdemon, the soul escapes through what WOULD be a mortal wound. By this process, it wouldn't matter who killed it, because there's no tainted soul to transfer once it dies.

Now, if you DON'T do the ritual, what if it's the taint that corrupted the Old God, that transfers to the Warden that kills it, the taint overwhelms him/her, and they die, but the soul of the Old God survives. By THIS process, EVEN IF the Warden sacrifices his/herself to kill the Archdemon, Morrigan performs the ritual off on her own, or with some random man, and it still pulls the soul of the Old God right to her. It's not like they can quantify a soul in the DA universe, so the death of the Warden may not be due to the souls destroying eachother.

#15
Ziggeh

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There've always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm.

#16
christrek1982

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Bayz wrote...

What makes you think that of a charming and kind lady always filled with good desires for everyone and ponies and rainbows and kittens?


lol if that was a reply to what i said then i have to ask did we meet the same person?

#17
Apollo Starflare

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Yeah, bit too similar to Skyrim now as well isn't it? My wild speculation would be that the line about the skies opening is referring to the Fade in some abstract way. The follow up about how everyone will see just makes me think of the Fade being described as a veil and how it's like opening your eyes again (or something) to see it.

It's always seemed to me that there isn't enough known about Lyrium and the Fade (both in universe and out) and it gives me the impression that there is some major twist or event involving magic/the fade coming up. Sandal's prophecy only reinforces this idea for me. OGB will probably kick down the door to the Black/Gold city or something.

#18
kedcoleman

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 We really don't know enough to make any kind of claim.  There's plenty of fuel for speculation and wild guessing, however. (Maker knows I've done my share!)
Things we can be somewhat confident about:There's something weird about Sandal:  He slaughters rooms full of darkspawn with nary a scratch.  He spouts prophetic passages occasionally, despite his seeming ... mental inadequacies.  The whole "not enchantment" incident.
Flemeth is something we've never seen before:  She's identified by Morrigan as neither blood mage, demon nor abomination.  She has impressive shape-shifting abilities.  There's plenty of speculation as to what she is, whether a dragon, old god, the Dread Wolf, a crazy old witch that possesses her daughters' bodies to live forever.  There's no conclusive information to say for sure which is true

Flemeth is instrumental and manipulative:  Though she seems to have a minor role, the things she does creates huge ripples in the plot.  Without her the Warden might never have stopped the fifth Blight, Hawke would never have made it to Kirkwall and the mage war probably would never have gone the way she wanted, Morrigan wouldn't have discovered the Dark Ritual and, potentially, birthed a child with the soul of an Old God inside it.  Now she's got her eye on Sandal while Morrigan appears to be bringing him to Orlais.

The Stone lives beneath Orlais:  This is something the Nexus Golem says in DA2.  This is more enigmatic than most of the other conspiracy notes.  What exactly is The Stone?  It clearly is connected to dwarven history, predating the Memories.  

Magic and the Fade:  Lyrium is intrinsically connected to the Fade, naturally appearing there, as well as powering great magic in the "real" world.    The Chantry even goes so far as to call it "the Waters of the Fade".   The barrier between the Fade and the real world isn't impenetrable, by any means.  In some places it's weakened, other places all but gone (the Bone Pit, for instance).  When Sandal says "the magic will return, all of it" I believe he's predicting the Veil will be gone and the world of magic and dreams and the mortal world will be one.  

The Old Gods may be dragons:  The Tevinters certainly depicted them as such, and the Old Gods supposedly taught humans blood magic, unless it was the elves as some historians say.  Dragon Cults perform some sort of blood magic, involving dragon blood.  Either they were dragons or something similar in form and type to them.

Somniari:  Feynriel, if you don't make him Tranquil, turns out to be a "dreamer", a talent found in elves in ancient times.  None of these somniari have survived in over two ages, but those who do are able to traverse the Fade without the aid of lyrium.   This could be the forerunner of Sandal's magic returning, with powers unseen starting to return to the world.  It's also interesting to note elves seem to have a deeper connection to the Fade than others.

The Primeval Thaig:  An ancient dwarven thaig, predating the Memories, again, full of odd lyrium veins and an idol of pure lyrium that they worship, though the dwarves have no history of religious worship.  There are parts of dwarven history, it seems, that are forgotten (either willfully or by the passage of time and the Blight)

#19
Blacklash93

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Maria Caliban wrote...

Bayz wrote...

Haven't they returned to Thedas already? I killed several during Origins already.

Also I do know that ASOIAF is a reference, but ripping off the "Magic returns when the dragons return" that blatantly...


Magic returns when dragons returns is something that the OP made up. Dragons were never extinct. There was a period of several decades where there were no dragon sightings, but also thousands of years where dragons were 'common' and Thedas was just like we see it in the games.

It was actually over 200 years. They were said to be wiped out over the course of the Steel age, the 6th age with Dragon being the 9th. That's a very long time to not have a single sighting of even hunting drakes and female dragons searching for lairs. Then two rampages happen at once right at the turn of the century and they start showing up everywhere. Kind of odd...


And to the OP - there is no "Truth" here. It's all speculation and theories. Don't go claiming such things, even passively.

Lore speculation is fun, though! Posted Image

Modifié par Blacklash93, 02 avril 2011 - 04:16 .


#20
lorvincent

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Talladarr wrote...

I got a little speculation here. Hear
me out for a second, what I got may be rubbish, but it's something.
Assuming these Archdemons are the Old Gods of Tevinter, then what if
what kills the Archdemons is nothing like what we think it is? Perhaps,
if you do Morrigan's Dark Ritual it simply pulls the soul apart form the
taint, then pulls the soul out of the Archdemon, and in fact THAT is
waht kills the Archdemon, the soul escapes through what WOULD be a
mortal wound. By this process, it wouldn't matter who killed it, because
there's no tainted soul to transfer once it dies.

Now, if you
DON'T do the ritual, what if it's the taint that corrupted the Old God,
that transfers to the Warden that kills it, the taint overwhelms
him/her, and they die, but the soul of the Old God survives. By THIS
process, EVEN IF the Warden sacrifices his/herself to kill the
Archdemon, Morrigan performs the ritual off on her own, or with some
random man, and it still pulls the soul of the Old God right to her.
It's not like they can quantify a soul in the DA universe, so the death
of the Warden may not be due to the souls destroying eachother.


I liked reading this speculation. Cool idea, but unfortunately, its been almost proven that the matter is soul-related by the Awakening expansion.  There is a point in the Silverite Mine, where you find one of the Architect's experiments that seems to focus on soul transfer.

Actually...

Now that I think about it, this theory means that the darkspawn HAVE no soul since according to the Warden theory and the experiment in Awakening, when a soul enters a contained body, both souls extinguish themselves... so does this mean Flemeth's false grimoire really was just a complete ploy?

Blacklash93 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Bayz wrote...

Haven't they returned to Thedas already? I killed several during Origins already.

Also I do know that ASOIAF is a reference, but ripping off the "Magic returns when the dragons return" that blatantly...


Magic returns when dragons returns is something that the OP made up. Dragons were never extinct. There was a period of several decades where there were no dragon sightings, but also thousands of years where dragons were 'common' and Thedas was just like we see it in the games.

It was actually over 200 years. They were said to be wiped out over the course of the Steel age, the 6th age with Dragon being the 9th. That's a very long time to not have a single sighting of even hunting drakes and female dragons searching for lairs. Then two rampages happen at once right at the turn of the century and they start showing up everywhere. Kind of odd...


And to the OP - there is no "Truth" here. It's all speculation and theories. Don't go claiming such things, even passively.

Lore speculation is fun, though! Posted Image


@Bayz: Backlash basically sums up the history of draconic life on Thedas, so I suggest you read that post I have quoted above.  I never said magic "returns" with dragons, but since you bring it up... if the old gods are dragons, and they taught it to the imperium, we probably will see their strength in magic in the upcoming story.  As for a "return of magic" like ASOIAF, that would be just silly.  Magic is already present in Thedas, and the idea of magic coming back is already present, as a war with the Chantry has erupted at the end of DA:2, which will probably weaken Orlais and coax the Tevinter into attacking them.  With the fall of the circle, apostates will run rampant and dabble in many more dark arts than previously.  The Tevninter has already been described as regaining much of their former power, but they do not rule over Thedas as they once did.  If they swing for conquering Thedas, its like throwing gass on a flash-point house fire.  Magic itself would become a driving force in the events to come, and with the Tevinter back, I think that suggests to the idea of the old wars and the quote "Magic will come back- all of it" as well as "everything will be as it was".

@Backlash93: Yes, this was completely speculative, but I was writing a persuasive argument.  Any essay written in a persuasive style is meant to present your ideas as fact.  I was not writing a paper by scientific method based on a correlational study where I have to choose my words carefully to express objectivity.  This is a subjective post, and the best way to argue it persuasively is call it truth.  This allows others to pop in, and express their counter-arguments and beliefs from a stronger standpoint, because I basically coax them into response by using a strong bias. :D

On another note, someone above wrote a theory about the fade and the real world colliding, as if the veil were to fall.  That is DEFINITELY and interesting take on the "skies will part" quote.  The quote itself is very figurative, as if to express a major epiphany.

#21
AlexXIV

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So we will be looking for the Golden God Child in DA3?

#22
The Angry One

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You know, if I were a BioWare writer, I'd put in a line for Sandal like this just to make people over-speculate and make topics like this so I could sit back and giggle like a school girl.

Just saying...

#23
Arppis

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The great thing about prophecies, is that they can be darn vague and when something remotely similar happens, people can go: Oh look! He was right!

#24
Lord Gremlin

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Flemeth being Fen'Harel is almost old news now... Big spoiler for DA3 I guess.

#25
catabuca

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Ziggeh wrote...

There've always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm.


I loved it when he referenced that :D