52 réponses à ce sujet

[lorvincent]

The Angry One wrote...

You know, if I were a BioWare writer, I'd put in a line for Sandal like this just to make people over-speculate and make topics like this so I could sit back and giggle like a school girl.

Just saying...

And its up to us fans to feed their incessant giggling.  Part of the fun of writing a good story is watching the fans squirm in their seats as they speculate.

EDIT: Side-note, I have been researching into dwarves and their connection to lyrium and the primeval thaig and how this all relates to Sandal.  As far as I can tell, it seems Sandal's exposure to lyrium has caused him to retain unique magical talents and also some of the living memories stored within lyrium.  These memories account for his knowledge of spellcasting when wielding lyrium and also accounts for his ability to supposedly prophesize future events.

Another interesting fact was that lyrium "sings".  I found this intriguing as it reminded me of the Archdemon...

Modifié par lorvincent, 03 avril 2011 - 03:51 .

[LadyBri]

christrek1982 wrote...

note on the god chiled has enyone concidered that Morigan may only want this child as a host? after all she dose have the book now that tells her how to do the body swop thing. and he also says the more power a host has the easyer the transfer.

just thaght I'd put it out there

Now that is a creepy thought...That never entered my mind before, but omg what if?

[Blacklash93]

LadyBri wrote...

christrek1982 wrote...

note on the god chiled has enyone concidered that Morigan may only want this child as a host? after all she dose have the book now that tells her how to do the body swop thing. and he also says the more power a host has the easyer the transfer.

just thaght I'd put it out there

Now that is a creepy thought...That never entered my mind before, but omg what if?

I doubt Bioware will turn Morrigan into a man.

[Kijin]

Blacklash93 wrote...

LadyBri wrote...

christrek1982 wrote...

note on the god chiled has enyone concidered that Morigan may only want this child as a host? after all she dose have the book now that tells her how to do the body swop thing. and he also says the more power a host has the easyer the transfer.

just thaght I'd put it out there

Now that is a creepy thought...That never entered my mind before, but omg what if?

I doubt Bioware will turn Morrigan into a man.

More importantly, two souls cannot possess the same body. Attempting to add a second spirit into a body that already has one  will permanently merge the two spirits - this is why demons cannot be removed from their host without doing severe damage, and this is why Justice and Anders are now inseperatable. 

This also means that Flemeth's body possession spell is a fake, which the Witch Hunt DLC confirmed.

Modifié par Kijin, 03 avril 2011 - 04:17 .

[Blacklash93]

Kijin wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

LadyBri wrote...

christrek1982 wrote...

note on the god chiled has enyone concidered that Morigan may only want this child as a host? after all she dose have the book now that tells her how to do the body swop thing. and he also says the more power a host has the easyer the transfer.

just thaght I'd put it out there

Now that is a creepy thought...That never entered my mind before, but omg what if?

I doubt Bioware will turn Morrigan into a man.

More importantly, two souls cannot possess the same body. Attempting to add a second spirit into a body that already has one  will permanently merge the two spirits - this is why demons cannot be removed from their host without doing severe damage, and this is why Justice and Anders are now inseperatable. 

This also means that Flemeth's body possession spell is a fake, which the Witch Hunt DLC confirmed.

Possible, but still speculation. Demons retain themselves even after posession. Posession =/= Merging

But still, those are demons... which Flemeth isn't.

Morrigan could have made the whole thing up. Or perhaps Flemeth does something with the souls of her daughters.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 03 avril 2011 - 04:32 .

[Kijin]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Kijin wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

LadyBri wrote...

christrek1982 wrote...

note on the god chiled has enyone concidered that Morigan may only want this child as a host? after all she dose have the book now that tells her how to do the body swop thing. and he also says the more power a host has the easyer the transfer.

just thaght I'd put it out there

Now that is a creepy thought...That never entered my mind before, but omg what if?

I doubt Bioware will turn Morrigan into a man.

More importantly, two souls cannot possess the same body. Attempting to add a second spirit into a body that already has one  will permanently merge the two spirits - this is why demons cannot be removed from their host without doing severe damage, and this is why Justice and Anders are now inseperatable. 

This also means that Flemeth's body possession spell is a fake, which the Witch Hunt DLC confirmed.

Possible, but still speculation. Demons retain themselves even after posession. Posession =/= Merging

Morrigan could have made the whole thing up. Or perhaps Flemeth does something with the souls of her daughters.

The demon retains its personality, but it also retains the memories and mannerisms of its host. That is why many abominations are capable of acting like they are human. They are not amazing actors - they are literally merged with the host's spirit and can control the host. The demon and the host are merged - it just so happens that the demon is the dominant force in the merger, just like Anders is the dominant force in his merger with Justice. In Dragon Age, Possession does mean merger.

And yes this is speculation - speculation defended by evidence, but still speculation. Everything in this section of the forum is speculation. 

Here is something we do know for fact - in the Witch Hunt DLC, Morrigan reveals that Flemeth was never interested in immortality - in other words, Flemeth never intended to take over Morrigan's body. That was a ruse.

[Blacklash93]

What Morrigan said may just only mean that immortality isn't her primary goal.

I do think there's more to the story than what Morrigan told us. Seeing an army of identical Morri-clones in the Destiny trailer indicates that much.

[Kijin]

Blacklash93 wrote...

What Morrigan said may just only mean that immortality isn't her primary goal.

I do think there's more to the story than what Morrigan told us. Seeing an army of identical Morri-clones in the Destiny trailer indicates that much.

Here is the Destiny trailer. I don't see the army of identical Morri-clones. Maybe I'm blind or maybe you have the wrong trailer.

And no, Morrigan made it very clear: "I thought I knew what Flemeth planned. I thought what she craved was immortality. And yet I was wrong. So very wrong. She is no blood mage, no abomination... She is not even truly human. The ritual was but a means to an end, a herald for what is to come."

Flemeth is not interested in immortality. She never has been interested in immortality; her goal is far greater.

Edit: I agree that there is more to the story - but that does not include Flemeth using the possession spell to achieve immortality. That much has been made clear.

Modifié par Kijin, 03 avril 2011 - 04:52 .

[arcsquad12]

OraVelnoria87 wrote...

Didn't the Devs say that the God Child won't play a major role since they may not exist? In one of my playthroughs my fem-warden doesn't make Alistair sleep with Morrigan, and he slays the archdemon and dies. :

Peh, don't count on it. If they want to retcon Leliana coming back because they felt like it, expect the same for god child. Oh, you didn't do the Dark Ritual? Oh well, what you think happened and didn't happen isn't up to you.

Waits for Gaider to show up.

[Blacklash93]

All-female mage army using Flemeth's staff. They all look like hooded Morrigans.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 03 avril 2011 - 05:07 .

[Kijin]

You realize, of course, that this is not common knowledge, right? This deserves its own thread. Amazing amazing find, Blacklash.

Edit: It's hard to tell if they look like Morrigan from the screenshots you posted, but that is certainly an army of clones. Clones of Morrigan would make sense, but we don't see a close up of their face. All we see is an army of young, busty females shown at a great distance.

Modifié par Kijin, 03 avril 2011 - 05:08 .

[Blacklash93]

Kijin wrote...

You realize, of course, that this is not common knowledge, right? This deserves its own thread. Amazing amazing find, Blacklash.

Someone discovered this ages ago. I feel like I'm the only one who remembers.

I made a topic on it that was quickly forgotten. It was about how I think there will be a new "Witch Hunt" DLC for DA2, but with Flemeth. They couldn't get it in the game before release and now they're holding out on us.

Edit: It's hard to tell if they look like Morrigan from the screenshots you posted, but that is certainly an army of clones. Clones of Morrigan would make sense, but we don't see a close up of their face. All we see is an army of young, busty females shown at a great distance.

Look at the strings in front of the bust. The face. The necklace, too. All the same.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 03 avril 2011 - 05:14 .

[lorvincent]

O_O...

....

WHAT THE F--

On another note, I have to bring up awakening again, and the Architect's experiments which negate the idea that 2 souls can exist simultaneously in a single body. The experiment he was testing was a replica of what happens to a Warden and Archdemon soul when they try to maintain the same body. Both souls perish. I believe this is common amongst all "body swappings" and for that reason, Flemeth's false grimoire was a red herring.

Modifié par lorvincent, 03 avril 2011 - 05:19 .

[Kijin]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Kijin wrote...

You realize, of course, that this is not common knowledge, right? This deserves its own thread. Amazing amazing find, Blacklash.

Someone discovered this ages ago. I feel like I'm the only one who remembers.

I made a topic on it that was quickly forgotten. I think there will be a new "Witch Hunt" DLC for DA2. They couldn't get it in the game before release and now they're holding out on us.

Apparently you are the only one who remembers this. I have watched that trailer a few times and I completely missed that - again, nice find. That certainly adds to my interpretation of Flemeth's motivations.

Blacklash93 wrote...

Look at the strings in front of the bust. The necklace, too. All the same.

Well I'll be damned. That is an army of Morrigan clones. I'm saving those images to my harddrive. 

In any case, my immortality point still stands. She doesn't want immortality - she wants her own personal army. Well that was unexpected. 

lorvincent wrote...

On another note, I have to bring up awakening again, and the Architect's experiments which negate the idea that 2 souls can exist simultaneously in a single body. The experiment he was testing was a replica of what happens to a Warden and Archdemon soul when they try to maintain the same body. Both souls perish. I believe this is common amongst all "body swappings" and for that reason, Flemeth's false grimoire was a red herring.

Since body swapping almost always fails, it does bring an interesting point - demons/spirits have a much better trackrecord of possessing a body, and there does seem to be some similarities (that being - the demon dominates the host, but the demon retains most of the memories and mannerisms, enabling it to act like the host). What makes a demon/spirit different?

Modifié par Kijin, 03 avril 2011 - 05:19 .

[lorvincent]

I also feel, as epic as that looks, I must point out that the Circle and many other communities in Dragon Age release uniforms to their followers. Also, they all share staff types. Lastly, I need to point out a lack of models used in DA lore, and that body models are not really "individualized" for characters. Certainly an interesting find though, and quote the "conspiracy" theory.

I hope this is really what is happening...

EDIT:

@Kijin:  I don't believe there is a difference between demons and spirits in how they possess someone, but what I find interesting is, while a demon can corrupt a human, a human's emotions can corrupt a spirit, making it, by argument, a demon.

EDIT2:

Oh yeah, and Gaider answered my question of the Morrigan Clone Army in DA2: There is NO Morrigan Clone Army...

Got this halfway down a page from this link:
social.bioware.com/url=http:/meforums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html/forum/1/topic/47/index/1798678/342

It was about a bioware Ustream chat that Gaider did.

Modifié par lorvincent, 03 avril 2011 - 05:27 .

[Kijin]

lorvincent wrote...

I also feel, as epic as that looks, I must point out that the Circle and many other communities in Dragon Age release uniforms to their followers. Also, they all share staff types. Lastly, I need to point out a lack of models used in DA lore, and that body models are not really "individualized" for characters. Certainly an interesting find though, and quote the "conspiracy" theory.

I hope this is really what is happening...

EDIT:

@Kijin:  I don't believe there is a difference between demons and spirits in how they possess someone, but what I find interesting is, while a demon can corrupt a human, a human's emotions can corrupt a spirit, making it, by argument, a demon.

I don't think I was clear. When body swapping is used, two spirits inhabit the same host. This always ends with both souls dying according to the Architect's research. When a demon or a spirit possesses a host, the two souls merge. That is the part that confuses me. 

What you brought up isn't that surprising - a demon tries to dominate the host. Justice wasn't trying to dominate Anders, so Anders became dominant. What I am about to say is pure speculation, but it seems to be that whenever a spirit/demon possesses a host, a dominant soul emerges - and the dominant soul absorbs information from the inferior soul and imprints onto it. 

[PantheraOnca]

To some posters in this thread and others:

Morrigan's statements regarding Flemeth's interest in immortality could just mean that she isn't CURRENTLY seeking immortality. I see this as because she has found a way to sidestep worrying about dying, i.e. "daughter" possession. Alternatively, the OGB plan didn't have to do with immortality which she may or may not be looking into via other methods.

I also theorize that she merges with the personality of the host, rather than straight up over-write or co-habitate.

[lorvincent]

Read my EDIT2 on my above post

[Kijin]

For anyone who doesn't believe the posters in the link Lorvincent provided, here is a video of the interview. 

So, as awesome as that video is, it is not a clone army of Morrigan. It does show Flemeth leading an army, which could potentially be awesome in future games if it ever occurs.

[Blacklash93]

lorvincent wrote...

I also feel, as epic as that looks, I must point out that the Circle and many other communities in Dragon Age release uniforms to their followers. Also, they all share staff types. Lastly, I need to point out a lack of models used in DA lore, and that body models are not really "individualized" for characters. Certainly an interesting find though, and quote the "conspiracy" theory.

They're all witches, at any rate. 

The reason they look the same may be budget and a lack of funding to create diverse models for the trailer, but think of all the other flashback images in the trailer. They made a lot of new models for things that didn't even flash for a second in the trailer.

Oh yeah, and Gaider answered my question of the Morrigan Clone Army in DA2: There is NO Morrigan Clone Army...

Of course they aren't REALLY morrigan clones. He was dodging the question.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 03 avril 2011 - 05:40 .

[lx_theo]

Dragons are returning? Well, other than the fact that they're already there... SKYRIM

[lorvincent]

lx_theo wrote...

Dragons are returning? Well, other than the fact that they're already there... SKYRIM

Yes.  You are correct.  Skyrim is the real sequel to Dragon Age 2.  Everything that doesn't match is retconned.

@Backlash:  So are we thinking an army of "Witches of the Wilds"?

Thats a take on it I guess...  Or Morrigan represents a product of Flemeth's own self, thus an army of "young Flemeths"?  Damn thats just weird.
But cool.

Modifié par lorvincent, 03 avril 2011 - 11:52 .

[sphinxess]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

Yeah, bit too similar to Skyrim now as well isn't it? My wild speculation would be that the line about the skies opening is referring to the Fade in some abstract way. The follow up about how everyone will see just makes me think of the Fade being described as a veil and how it's like opening your eyes again (or something) to see it.

It's always seemed to me that there isn't enough known about Lyrium and the Fade (both in universe and out) and it gives me the impression that there is some major twist or event involving magic/the fade coming up. Sandal's prophecy only reinforces this idea for me. OGB will probably kick down the door to the Black/Gold city or something.

Isnt there something about the fade being the reflecton of all the dreamers? So if the world changes the fade changes.

I remember hearing/reading a comment somewhere that there are a lot more mages being born .

[Augustei]

All Hail Urthemiel! =D

[Talladarr]

lorvincent wrote...

I liked reading this speculation. Cool idea, but unfortunately, its been almost proven that the matter is soul-related by the Awakening expansion.  There is a point in the Silverite Mine, where you find one of the Architect's experiments that seems to focus on soul transfer.

Actually...

Now that I think about it, this theory means that the darkspawn HAVE no soul since according to the Warden theory and the experiment in Awakening, when a soul enters a contained body, both souls extinguish themselves... so does this mean Flemeth's false grimoire really was just a complete ploy?

I think not. When playing Origins I beat it with all three classes and almost every origin story, but what I noticed, and what pissed my off so much, was that certain damage boosters that SHOULD work against the Archdemon(those runs that add damage Vs Darkspawn and the +10 damage vs Dragons form Yusaris and Duncan's Dagger) have NO effect on the Archdemon, meaning it neither counts as a Dragon NOR a Darkspawn, therefore it COULD easilly have a soul.