37 réponses à ce sujet

[aimlessgun]

I thought it was just using a melee animation to cancel the reload animation a small way through, but apparently I'm not doing it right, because there's always a delay between the melee animation and when I can shoot again. In videos it almost looks like people are shooting during the melee animation.

What am I doing wrong? Right now I'm melee-ing slightly into the reload animation and spamming fire right after I hit melee. It reloads faster than the normal animation, but not nearly as fast as the vids.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 01 avril 2011 - 04:45 .

[Ahglock]

Like comedy, the secret to the reload trick is timing. My guess is you are cancelling a bit early. It is a sound based thing for me. You can hear when the thermal clip chambers, then I hit punch and if needed shoot at the same time. I actually practiced it out of when I need it so I could get the timing down. There may be a visual cue, but for me it was sound.

[Kronner]

It's not a glitch. Confirmed by BioWare to be intended feature in the game. Look it up.

You have to press the melee button when exactly 60% of the reload animation (you hear the "click" sound - that the thermal clip is ready to be used) has been completed. Not sooner, not later..otherwise it won't work. It works with all weapons by the way.

[termokanden]

Yep I also use the sound. I can use it but honestly I still don't like the concept. Just plain weird, doesn't matter if it's a glitch or intentional.

I can't understand why people are claiming it's hard on the xbox either. No it isn't. My aim is worse on the xbox, but that really has nothing to do with it.

[Kronner]

Forgot to add - you might use any power instead of melee as well.

===
btw I love the concept of the reload trick, and I hope they add something similar to ME3 too - though it would be even better if they actually added a special animation for the perfect reload as well.

Modifié par Kronner, 01 avril 2011 - 05:21 .

[termokanden]

Well in that case it might actually make sense. The part I don't like is how it's completely unexplained. Feels unnatural too.

What was that other game where you had to time reloads? Gears? I didn't mind there.

Modifié par termokanden, 01 avril 2011 - 05:30 .

[Alamar2078]

Kronner wrote...

It's not a glitch. Confirmed by BioWare to be intended feature in the game. Look it up.

You have to press the melee button when exactly 60% of the reload animation (you hear the "click" sound - that the thermal clip is ready to be used) has been completed. Not sooner, not later..otherwise it won't work. It works with all weapons by the way.

I think it was posted that it wasn't a glitch because they didn't want to bother to "fix" it     Therefore it became a "feature"       YMMV

[Alamar2078]

Kronner wrote...

Forgot to add - you might use any power instead of melee as well.

===
btw I love the concept of the reload trick, and I hope they add something similar to ME3 too - though it would be even better if they actually added a special animation for the perfect reload as well.

Honestly I'm just the opposite.  As a developer I'd go so far as to put in a cooldown timer to prevent animation cancelling whether from guns or powers

On the other hand if you want to make it a feature [IIRC Gears of War had a perfect reload spiff] then make sure it's a propoer feature with proper feedback and bonuses for doing it.

EDIT:  If done properly I'm ok either way.  Just don't give us a substandard implementation.

Modifié par Alamar2078, 01 avril 2011 - 05:37 .

[ashwind]

Alamar2078 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

It's not a glitch. Confirmed by BioWare to be intended feature in the game. Look it up.

You have to press the melee button when exactly 60% of the reload animation (you hear the "click" sound - that the thermal clip is ready to be used) has been completed. Not sooner, not later..otherwise it won't work. It works with all weapons by the way.

I think it was posted that it wasn't a glitch because they didn't want to bother to "fix" it     Therefore it became a "feature"       YMMV

The post was made by Christina Norman and she stated that she requested that feature to be added.

:devil: - but... u may still be right 

[Alamar2078]

ashwind wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

It's not a glitch. Confirmed by BioWare to be intended feature in the game. Look it up.

You have to press the melee button when exactly 60% of the reload animation (you hear the "click" sound - that the thermal clip is ready to be used) has been completed. Not sooner, not later..otherwise it won't work. It works with all weapons by the way.

I think it was posted that it wasn't a glitch because they didn't want to bother to "fix" it     Therefore it became a "feature"       YMMV

The post was made by Christina Norman and she stated that she requested that feature to be added.

:devil: - but... u may still be right 

I remember the thread and could [of course] be wrong.  As a developer I've been in situations where things like this were bugs that turned into features.

Note:  If this is on purpose then other games implement this feature VASTLY better than ME2.  As long as they implement it better [see any shooter with reload bonuses] then I'm OK with it.

[termokanden]

Alamar2078 wrote...

On the other hand if you want to make it a feature [IIRC Gears of War had a perfect reload spiff] then make sure it's a propoer feature with proper feedback and bonuses for doing it.

That was the point I was trying to make.

All in all though I do not really mind the reload trick. But I prefer not to use it as it feels more natural to me that way.

That said, the point of the thread was just how, but I think that has been answered completely.

[Kronner]

I am not discussing THIS again at length. It is only a waste of time, and ultimately, I couldn't care less what you personally think about the reload cancel/trick. But I do not like when people twist words and claim something that is not a fact to be a fact. So I'll just make a short post.

Christina Norman announced there was this reload cancel/trick back in February 2010, and then later (when some people kept saying the same BS over and over) confirmed (again) that it is intended feature that she put in the game.

She has had no problems admitting that Stasis is bugged and that Tech Armor shouldn't have reset cooldown for all squadmates in the final game.

As for substandard implementation - ME2 is not very good game when it comes to tech stuff - way too much clipping, various weird animations etc. But, it is better than nothing.

The conclusion is clear, for me. I have nothing else to add to this. Over and out

Modifié par Kronner, 01 avril 2011 - 05:51 .

[aimlessgun]

I know it's intended, but the common name is "the shotgun glitch" so that's what I called it

Thanks for the tips guys. I guess I'll just have to practice it more. Maybe hang out near a Weapons Locker for 20 min testing it.

[termokanden]

Kronner wrote...

I am not discussing again, it is only a waste of time, and ultimately, I couldn't care less what you think about the reload cancel/trick.

Oh I didn't really want to have that discussion again.

I just wanted to say that if it's there in ME3, they could give a few more clues.

I remember the thread and could [of course] be wrong.  As a developer I've been in situations where things like this were bugs that turned into features.

I don't remember trying this too many times myself. That's not to say I have not been responsible for quite a few bugs over the years. But at least some of them were funny. Usually C index errors that go unnoticed for a while are the most "entertaining"

[Alamar2078]

Kronner wrote...

I am not discussing THIS again at length. It is only a waste of time, and ultimately, I couldn't care less what you personally think about the reload cancel/trick. But I do not like when people twist words and claim something that is not a fact to be a fact. So I'll just make a short post.

Christina Norman announced there was this reload cancel/trick back in February 2010, and then later (when some people kept saying the same BS over and over) confirmed (again) that it is intended feature that she put in the game.

She has had no problems admitting that Stasis is bugged and that Tech Armor shouldn't have reset cooldown for all squadmates in the final game.

As for substandard implementation - ME2 is not very good game when it comes to tech stuff - way too much clipping, various weird animations etc. But, it is better than nothing.

The conclusion is clear, for me. I have nothing else to add to this. Over and out

I dost think you protest too much   [Read anything into that you want]

Here's how I feel ... If you feel good using the trick then more power to you.  If it makes you feel better that it's in there intentionally then also good for you.  The fact that you like finding these little things and using them [I assume whether they are in there on purpose or not] then good for you.

If I don't want to use these things [but I may do things you don't like such as exploit AI pathfinding] then more power to me.

The way the "feature" is implemented certainly looks like a bug and acts like a bug.  Now if the implementation is so poor as to impersonate a bug then so be it.  Either way you have to admit it passes the "duck test".

Before you replied you obviously didn't read my other posts with a live & let live attitude.  But if you want to ignore that then more power to you to.

EDIT:  My reply came across as more flamy than intended.  My apoligies.   I will man-up though and leave my original text there to be picked apart.   On hindsight I should have phrased things more gently.

Modifié par Alamar2078, 01 avril 2011 - 06:28 .

[aimlessgun]

I think the Claymore should actually be a good weapon, so I will happily use this trick

[Alamar2078]

IMHO the Claymore is great even without the trick. OSOK, elbow the guy next to you if need be, scurry around & reload when you get a chance, Charge again .. .win

[swn32]

Not really, claymore without reload trick is pretty weak. You need to be point blank to use it, you cant afford to wait so long for the next shot.

[Alamar2078]

swn32 wrote...

Not really, claymore without reload trick is pretty weak. You need to be point blank to use it, you cant afford to wait so long for the next shot.

I like it and it works for my playstyle.  You just can't charge into a pack of 10 guys and come out unscathed.  I pick off loners or just guys with only one backup.  Charge, kill, elbow, move, reload, Charge again just before I die.

Note:  I've been a developer and involved with game balance so sometimes I don't like doing things that are even ordained by other developers simply because I don't like it.   That's a me problem though

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Speaking of the reload trick and the like, users of most of the shotguns can benefit from doing melee strikes in between shots. This helps keep enemies staggered in between the relatively slow shots.

[SidJr]

This trick works with every other movement... Power,Take Cover,Change Weapon! Very useful!

[Bozorgmehr]

Alamar2078 wrote...

The way the "feature" is implemented certainly looks like a bug and acts like a bug.  Now if the implementation is so poor as to impersonate a bug then so be it.  Either way you have to admit it passes the "duck test".

Animation canceling is common in action games - the reload canceling isn't something unique at all and it works with all weapons. Whether you like it or not, you'll use the reload trick many times during a playthrough (most people just don't know when they're (accidentally) executing it). When you're reloading and use a power or melee, get into/out of cover, open a door, pick up medkits, talk to NPCs etc. etc. - you're doing it.

swn32 wrote...

Not really, claymore without reload trick is pretty weak. You need to be point blank to use it, you cant afford to wait so long for the next shot.

Indeed. The Claymore is the 'worst' (weakest) shotgun without the reload trick. With the reload trick it's a great weapon, but it doesn't make the other shotties obsolete.

Alamar2078 wrote...

Note: I've been a developer and involved with game balance so sometimes I don't like doing things that are even ordained by other developers simply because I don't like it. That's a me problem though

To keep the balance, the Claymore needs the reload trick - if this features was added later, the Claymore is why.

It's the only OSOK shotgun in ME2 and the most difficult & dangerous weapon to use - one miss can ruin everything. I don't have a problem with how it works and there's nothing better than watching the effect of a Claymore headshot at pont blank range

Shotguns are extremely well-balanced in ME2, taking away the reload cancel breaks the system.

[swn32]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Speaking of the reload trick and the like, users of most of the shotguns can benefit from doing melee strikes in between shots. This helps keep enemies staggered in between the relatively slow shots.

There is no need to melee strike between shots. Rather you should melee along with the shots.

[Alamar2078]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
To keep the balance, the Claymore needs the reload trick - if this features was added later, the Claymore is why.

It's the only OSOK shotgun in ME2 and the most difficult & dangerous weapon to use - one miss can ruin everything. I don't have a problem with how it works and there's nothing better than watching the effect of a Claymore headshot at pont blank range

Shotguns are extremely well-balanced in ME2, taking away the reload cancel breaks the system.

To me it "feels" too strong with a quicker reload.  I like the idea of a STEEP DPS dropoff in exchange for OSOK .. obviously YMMV.

Devil's Advocate:  As for animation cancelling the project that I was on actually ran into balance issues if animation cancelling was done.  Of course the power/casting animations were part of the lore so cancelling them broke the lore anyway so it was "bad bad evil"    This may color my perception of similar issues as you can tell.

Note:  I like features implemented for "perfect reloads" or similar just fine.   I just want it to feel like a feature and not something that either looks like a bug or was slopped on.

While I may sound critical of ME2 please be clear that I play it a lot and while I have some gripes about the story I love the gameplay ... it's like virtual crack

[Leeroi]

Alamar, as far as Balance is concerned, Claymore comes close to last among the shotguns if no reload cancel is used. Think about it - on Collector ship you pick up Revenant (Soldier) which has its own amazing niche and is arguably the best assault rifle, the Widow (Infiltrator) which is undoubtedly the best sniper or the Claymore (Vanguard) which without reload cancel is nowhere near the best shotgun. Who would pick the Claymore if there was no reload cancel? I'm pretty sure if there's a poll, and having in mind Vanguards can pick the Viper or the Mattock, only a handful would opt for a shotgun that takes ages to reload and thus forces Vanguard in cover (and if there's 1 class that doesn't belong there, it's precisely that one).

Let's get back on topic: The reload cancel can be done with any weapon. The sequence is like this: Weapon fires -> you actively listen for the heatsink "click" or look for 60% completion -> Presss melee button -> reload animation is cancelled and a round is shot.

Pressing Melee too early will actually prolong the reload animation, and pressing it too late will only cancel a part of the reload process. Getting it right maximises your damage output. And that's most prominent with single-round clip weapons like Widow and Claymore.

I should probably make a video showing exactly how to do the reload trick and the sequence of events step by step...

Modifié par Leeroi, 01 avril 2011 - 11:03 .