155 réponses à ce sujet

[OrionUnas]

So I was all excited to get this toolset and fiddle around after my campaign story, and create new contecnt for the game.  However... I have found myself completly flustered.  The wiki sucks, and hardly any tutorials.

I can't even delete my modules that I don't want.  So I uninstalled the sodded dung, and am going to reinstall. with luck that will help some things.

I perfered the NWN1 toolset!  At least I could create stuff.  Anyway, anyone else got an oppinion on the suckyness of this toolset?

(Edit)
I'm not trying to be a flammer, I'm greatly appreciative that BioWare has given us this tool, but I'm, and I'm sure alot of newbs like me, are very disheartened  at trying to make works for the game since there are no resources.

Modifié par OrionUnas, 18 novembre 2009 - 07:11 .

[nix3r]

Blame the user, not the tool. The NWN1 toolset was oversimplified which was great in that it let complete noobs build a module from start to finish, but the downside of that was some pretty severe limitations once you had a general understanding of the tool.



My main issue with the DA toolset is the scripting. I really haven't done any coding for a long time and without any documentation on all the functions etc. I'm struggling badly.



I'm thinking about just building all of the areas, characters, plots and dialogue and just outsourcing the scripting to the community until we get some good documentation.

[EmeryQuinn]

The toolset has it's troubles. The fact that even pieces of the same tileset some times don't line up. (WTF is that about bioware? I place some stairs and the rest of the level has to be slid into place by hand.)



But it hasn't turned me off yet. It's slow going, anything good always is. Nothing worth making ever comes easy.



Here are some basic tips. Make a single module called TEST. Build everything inside this module. When your starting to get a feel for your module. Pick a name: "Super Awesome Module" Then use the builder to builder tool to move everything from TEST to your new module. That way you only really do all your screwing around in one module. the others are for serious business. And you don't have 900 modules with names like "ahsjkhakshj"



Also be patient with it, sure building a room takes forever. Populating it with props, then working with the lighting that take 30m to render and then finding a error and having to redo it all. Trust me, when you finish an awesome antechamber with massive stained glass windows and beams of moonlight you'll feel good. Then when you add the monsters and you load up your module and start slaying ogres and smacking down the undead on a rampage through the undercity. It's all worth it. Just give it some time.



Or give up right now. Free country last time I checked.

[Astorax]

While the wiki is not as simplified and step by step as many users would like, it's getting to be fairly comprehensive.



There's also quite a few tutorial videos in this forum if you search for them.



While criticism is fine, starting threads with inflammatory titles like you did is flaming, regardless of the fact that you say it isn't.



The devs have stated from moment one that the toolset has a VERY steep learning curve because it's a lot more powerful than say, the NWN toolset. While that means it will take longer to get used to it, and learn to create with it, the richness of what you can create is VASTLY more extensive than anything the NWN toolset could do.

[CHRiTTeR]

im sure itll get better, give it some time

[Flamin Jesus]

Apart from the game-breaking bug(s), really the only problem is that the wiki and most of the tutorials so far leave some/a lot of blanks to be filled for the user, and that's not a problem of the toolset per sé.

Some settings/properties could be more self-explanatory (or could use some tooltips), but that just means you have to spend some time hunting this information down or having it explained by someone here in the forums...

[ThornDelwyn]

I found this tutorial by St4rdog extremely helpfull to start with the toolset:

[Martin E]

It is far more of a 'pro' tool than NWN1 ever was - hence it is harder to use.
There will be a bedding-in period as community pioneers get to grips with it, and then the tutorials and content will start to appear.
I have only had a limited play around with the toolset, enough to know just how hard it is to use, but also enough to figure out that it is a pretty powerful developer tool.
I agree with those above who put the eas of use for the NWN1 toolset into the context of it's limitations - it was a very limited developer tool, although it did so much to foster and encourage a burgeoning builder community for NWN1.
Martin

Modifié par Martin E, 18 novembre 2009 - 11:46 .

[KalDurenik]

I don't have alot of problems understanding the toolset my problem is the bugs and other things that are made in a dumb way (could be made easier to use instead of this complicated version. For example moving a 3d object some times make the object "fly" away like 50000m outside the map. (very very very annoying).

[OrionUnas]

Yeah, I have since the last post, uninstalled the toolset (as the SQL stuff wasn't letting me delete the other modules) and after learning the chek-in, check-out, and how to delete things... has made the process a little more easy going.



Don't get me wrong, I understand the vast greatness of this toolset, and after searching for how to build a room, I've become rather... imaginative with how I can present my world.



The thing I was looking forward too was more of NWN toolset feel. I know that it was extremly limited, as was NWN2... and those interior tiles concept thing was ghastly. But since this arduous task of having to place every single item in your level (perfectionest that I am, well revel in the XYZ planes), I am glad the editor is the way it is.



I love to be able to create majestic water falls (although the only water fall piece i've seen is a small waterfall...), and build a level.



I should have thought of a better title... sucks wasn't the word I was going for... i kind of meant it in the... "extremley difficult to learn" sense... rather then it's garbage, lol.

[OrionUnas]

KalDurenik wrote...

I don't have alot of problems understanding the toolset my problem is the bugs and other things that are made in a dumb way (could be made easier to use instead of this complicated version. For example moving a 3d object some times make the object "fly" away like 50000m outside the map. (very very very annoying).

I agree.  Even in the creature creator panels.  When you go to create a creature, you can't zoom in (at least for me) right away, and then when I get the chance to zoom in, or zoom out, i've passed my creature 6 light years away.  Very annoying, lol.

[Ainiana]

Apart from bugs with lightmapping and interferring with main game saves, i much prefer it to NWN1 or NWN2 toolsets atm. I still dont understand all of it so far obviously, but its pretty clear it has much more potential in what you can achieve with it

[OrionUnas]

EmeryQuinn wrote...

The toolset has it's troubles. The fact that even pieces of the same tileset some times don't line up. (WTF is that about bioware? I place some stairs and the rest of the level has to be slid into place by hand.)

But it hasn't turned me off yet. It's slow going, anything good always is. Nothing worth making ever comes easy.

Here are some basic tips. Make a single module called TEST. Build everything inside this module. When your starting to get a feel for your module. Pick a name: "Super Awesome Module" Then use the builder to builder tool to move everything from TEST to your new module. That way you only really do all your screwing around in one module. the others are for serious business. And you don't have 900 modules with names like "ahsjkhakshj"

Also be patient with it, sure building a room takes forever. Populating it with props, then working with the lighting that take 30m to render and then finding a error and having to redo it all. Trust me, when you finish an awesome antechamber with massive stained glass windows and beams of moonlight you'll feel good. Then when you add the monsters and you load up your module and start slaying ogres and smacking down the undead on a rampage through the undercity. It's all worth it. Just give it some time.

Or give up right now. Free country last time I checked.

Oh believe me, I was very tempted to give up.  The problem is, those tutorials on the wiki, don't give step by step instructions.  for example... creating a light.  All it really says, is to right click, insert a new light, make the light ambiant, and then hit render.  What it doesn't tell you, is that until you create an exportable area, it will just give you an error stating that the level has no exportable area.

What I should have titled the subject was... "great toolset, (in the words of the dwarves) 'sodding' wiki" 

[Mokomii]

i wish they came with a list of programs that you need with the toolset.
found out you need python 2.5.4 and the extension for the lighting. (took me a while to find there was even an extension) need excel (or openoffice) for the 2da files etc.

The toolset has it's troubles. The
fact that even pieces of the same tileset some times don't line up.
(WTF is that about bioware? I place some stairs and the rest of the
level has to be slid into place by hand.)

But it hasn't turned me off yet. It's slow going, anything good always is. Nothing worth making ever comes easy.

Here
are some basic tips. Make a single module called TEST. Build everything
inside this module. When your starting to get a feel for your module.
Pick a name: "Super Awesome Module" Then use the builder to builder
tool to move everything from TEST to your new module. That way you only
really do all your screwing around in one module. the others are for
serious business. And you don't have 900 modules with names like
"ahsjkhakshj"

Also be patient with it, sure building a room
takes forever. Populating it with props, then working with the lighting
that take 30m to render and then finding a error and having to redo it
all. Trust me, when you finish an awesome antechamber with massive
stained glass windows and beams of moonlight you'll feel good. Then
when you add the monsters and you load up your module and start slaying
ogres and smacking down the undead on a rampage through the undercity.
It's all worth it. Just give it some time.

Or give up right now. Free country last time I checked.

qft.  the best part is i'll spend more time working on this you'll never even notice but is more important to have.

Modifié par Mokomii, 18 novembre 2009 - 01:32 .

[Mokomii]

Mokomii wrote...

i wish they came with a list of programs that you need with the toolset.
found out you need python 2.5.4 and the extension for the lighting. (took me a while to find there was even an extension) need excel (or openoffice) for the 2da files etc.

But it hasn't turned me off yet. It's slow going, anything good always is. Nothing worth making ever comes easy.

Also be patient with it, sure building a room
takes forever. Populating it with props, then working with the lighting
that take 30m to render and then finding a error and having to redo it
all. Trust me, when you finish an awesome antechamber with massive
stained glass windows and beams of moonlight you'll feel good. Then
when you add the monsters and you load up your module and start slaying
ogres and smacking down the undead on a rampage through the undercity.
It's all worth it. Just give it some time.

Or give up right now. Free country last time I checked.

qft.  the best part is i'll spend more time working on this you'll never even notice but is more important to have.

yes i agree with the wiki sucks part.  thats to silentcid and a few others who is writing tutorials its getting easier to figure out why your area/convo/plot/etc isn't working.

[Lucy Glitter]

It's a buggy photoshop. It takes a long time to master, but it is worth it.

[simpatikool]

I only dinkered with it a little so far. My issue stems from the fact that, I can't stop just playing the game.

[muse1988z]

I realize this game was made for a single player rpg and the focus of the development was on this, not the toolset, but i hope nwn3 or w/e next does focus on the toolset.



nwn1 was so succesful because it was so easy to make a simple mod, or delve deeper and learn some more complex things, i remember the glory days the nwn1 toolset community was massive

[Pellegrin]

The toolset I feel is actually pretty good. There's a lot to edit that you can get to quickly.



However, it is not intuitive and the tutorials available are simply not enough.

[Challseus]

muse1988z wrote...

I realize this game was made for a single player rpg and the focus of the development was on this, not the toolset, but i hope nwn3 or w/e next does focus on the toolset.

nwn1 was so succesful because it was so easy to make a simple mod, or delve deeper and learn some more complex things, i remember the glory days the nwn1 toolset community was massive

I would give things a little time. What's it been, like 2 weeks? As time goes on, the WIKI will be updated, you tube videos will be uploaded, and Bioware will finally break apart these forums into something manageable.

I only joined the NWN1 community in 2004 after tons and tons of documentation was already out there, but I assume it wasn't perfect 2 weeks after it's launch either? I could be wrong, maybe people hit the ground running, to to speak

EDIT - For the record, I like LOVE this toolset (when it was working for me!) and all of its capabilities.

Modifié par Challseus, 18 novembre 2009 - 02:58 .

[Ranlas]

nix3r wrote...
My main issue with the DA toolset is the scripting. I really haven't done any coding for a long time and without any documentation on all the functions etc. I'm struggling badly.

Documentation like this,

http://social.biowar...from_script.ldf

or maybe the one that's already in the toolset,

http://social.biowar...w#Script_editor

(bottom of that subsection, just before the Writing Scripts section) ?

Modifié par Ranlas, 18 novembre 2009 - 03:29 .

[Languard]

If you have not made any contributions to the wiki, then you have no right to say it sucks

So?  Get over here and help us make it better!

[Eshaye]

Heh I'm used to the Elderscrolls and Eden Creation Kit from Bethesda and honestly they do a better job. Perhaps Bioware will improve in time I certainly hope so .
The trouble with this tool set is that the way things are set up and categorized is not all that user friendly and certainly very intimidating for the modding newb. The tool set also has bugs as mentioned and will crash for small reasons.

[DecalGuy]

Eshaye wrote...

Heh I'm used to the Elderscrolls and Eden Creation Kit from Bethesda and honestly they do a better job. Perhaps Bioware will improve in time I certainly hope so .
The trouble with this tool set is that the way things are set up and categorized is not all that user friendly and certainly very intimidating for the modding newb. The tool set also has bugs as mentioned and will crash for small reasons.

Agreed. Fallout 3 editor is alot easier then this, as powerful? who knows.


Also I havent spent to much time in the editor, but does everything you do require scripting? Ive seen basic item creation tutorials that (look like they...) require scripting to get it into your created area/mod. Please dont let this be the case.

[MadaSnave2]

what i dont get is they advertise they made the game with this tool set but day 1 want to add patches to it showing that this toolset didnt make the game, and what about it not being included with the game i mean this tool set is a major mess. in nwn i could make a 2 hour campain with scripted events and creatures reacting to your class easy, i cant even get this damned thing to work. only reasion i suggest downloading it is it seems to be required for all the hot fixes to fix the freaking game. HELLO ALPHA TEST? im not trying to flame but what the heck. this game has core bugs. such as the dex bug and others and to say they tested rogues at all is LAUGHABLE other then they made stealth work well. great game but honestly there are hard working people at bio who are haveing to work harder after the launch due to im guessing a lot of people not doing their job in the first place. if this was a lauch of an mmo such as your upcomeing one, you would be regreating going live with a game that isnt finished i hope your company gets that because i dont want your upcomeing mmo to be like many others, i mean i still wish i could get my champions online money back.