155 réponses à ce sujet

[Bibdy]

Wisermyzer wrote...

Bleh was hopin to avoid that but I guess i'll follow that one.

So just dropping a monster in the middle of the game is no-go? Like i'd like to make some bosses ELITE bosses as opposed to regular. Not doable?

You can, its just not easy because of how the Single Player campaign is put together, with lots of intertwined elements. I haven't experimented with it much myself, I'm too nervous about breaking the game

I suspect its a matter of either

A) Extracting the Area file of Lothering from the Single Player module, loading it into your OWN module, placing your creature in there, exporting the files out of the toolset, then placing them in the core game override folder - essentially telling the game to replace the existing version of Lothering to the version you made, which is identical, except for an extra dragon thrown in there, or...

 Override the script which is run the moment you enter Lothering and place some code in there to spawn your creature at some X,Y,Z coordinates, which you, again, place in the override folder - similar as above, except you're not replacing the entire Area itself, only replacing a simple script file and adding a bit of code to it.

I'm sure there are other methods. What it boils down to is finding a way to get the game engine to create your creature there, without affecting anything else. But, the way all of the elements of an area are packaged together, its dangerous to just jump in feet-first and add stuff.

[Wisermyzer]

I think A is doable. So to override an existing area i have to:

Use a copy of an area like say Lothering and drop the creature in from my own module. How should the Module Properties be set for the monster and the area? Owner/The Other One =P

After i drop the monster in (it's an open space with nothing special about it so a monster just being there wouldnt affect anything unless the high dragon itself has some special script) and save the area and check it back in, I export it without dependent resources (the 3 steps) and do the same 3 steps for the monster.

After the toolset work is done how do I go about overriding the stock Lothering? It's a fully functional area and I completed it so there shouldn't be any trigger issues or nada. If i remember afetr i export there is a single file in the my documents toolexports folder called Lothering_are or w/e. I take that and go where with it?

The final thing is honestly just wanting to be able to change bosses to elite bosses and nothing else.

EDIT: As for fear of breaking the game, something like this is easily reversable if you keep the original, no? I've had to restore defaults so much if i haven't broken anything I'm sure you'd be fine =)

Modifié par Wisermyzer, 18 janvier 2010 - 07:15 .

[thebigMuh]

The problem with A.) and B.) is that if there's another addon that tries to do something similar (overriding the area, or changing the area script), then the modules will override each other.



As far as I understood, the PRCSCR mechanism is for spawning stuff in existing areas without module conflicts, though I haven't tried that yet.



Ciao, muh!

[Wisermyzer]

Well i picked loth after i finished it cuz there's nothing there to conflict with a version of loth that has the monster in it. None of my add-ons or addins conflict with that, or shouldnt.

[Bibdy]

To override stuff, you just put a file with the same name as the core game file in the (using underscores, because backslashes freak out on this forum) My Documents_Bioware_Dragon Age_packages_core_override folder. The game engine is designed this way, to use things from the override folder, instead of core game files, and this is a process a lot of mods use to get their content into the game.

Now, its not enough to create your own Area from scratch, use the Lothering layout file, set it to the same name and use that. It won't have any of the existing creatures, dialogue and whatnot. You have to get the actual Lothering area, with all the trimmings, out and edit that.

To do that, you have to set the module to "Single Player" export the file for Lothering (right click it and there should be an option to export it), find where the file was exported (probably in Dragon Age_modules_Single Player_core_override_toolsetexport), change the active module to your own one, load up that .are (Area) file, place the dragon in there, save and export it all, which should then export everything you built into Dragon Age_addins_<your module name>_core_override_toolsetexport. Then, when you load up the game and enable your module (under the Downloadable Content thing, although I think new addins get enabled by default), it should then load up the files in the folder named after your module instead of the default Lothering area.

You might be able to skip a lot of Area work to upgrade bosses, by simply changing existing Creatures in the Creature List and exporting those, although you might have to go through the same process of exporting it out of the Single Player module and into your own before you tinker with it. Inside those Creature files you should be able to change their type, and increase their minimum level and all kinds of stuff.

But hey, if you just want to make things harder in general, you can always just download the difficulty mod in my sig

[Bibdy]

thebigMuh wrote...

The problem with A.) and B.) is that if there's another addon that tries to do something similar (overriding the area, or changing the area script), then the modules will override each other.

As far as I understood, the PRCSCR mechanism is for spawning stuff in existing areas without module conflicts, though I haven't tried that yet.

Ciao, muh!

Yes, that's one of the biggest dangers. I would look into the PRCSCR method and see if that's easier than all of this madness.

[AmstradHero]

While I don't typically recommend sites not on the wiki, I think this tutorial is currently the best I've seen on using PRCSCR.  It tells you almost everything you need to know.  The thing it doesn't (until the comments) is that you need to name your file "PRCSCR_whateveryouwant".

[Wisermyzer]

Ahh thank you guys. I know this'll be easy once i get a method to work properly for me. Custom items alone was kookoo till that one tutorial and I got those down pat now.



Anyway, i'll keep all this in mind and see if any particular method works then check what works better.

Thanks fellas.



I still maintain this toolset is bonkers.

[Delryin]

TheBigMuh

Thanks for both your answer and your proposal.

<Rant>

I'm not having that much time spend on getting the toolset right, I'm also a bit disappointed since my first attempt at modding was with Fallout 3 and if I had my issues with the toolst I was designing entire levels after a 15 minutes video showing me how. I did not try changing textures to be honest but everything else I tried was a hundred time easier than with the DA:O ones. Hell, we even had some courses planned for a client using levels created in the Fallout 3 editor for safety briefings, the project got canned for other reasons. But each module was a matter of a few days and got me to actually like the game. These toolsets are a marketing tool as sure as the game itself, in the long run they ensure the game remains with us and pave the way for the future of the franchise. Allocating resources to make sure that the toolset is easily accessible to everyone (and it is not accessible to everyone if my grandmother can't use it) in a reasonable amount of time (2 months is not a reasonable amount of time) is just an evidence business wise.

</Rant>

[AmstradHero]

Personally I found the GECK to be horrible to use. For designing new areas it was possible a little more accessible than Dragon Age, but for setting up nice conversations, plots and journal entries... anything involving an actual STORY... GECK seemed plain nasty.

[Lathaon]

...

The Dragon Age toolset.
Mighty hammer of Enchantment. Requires level 15.

...

The GECK and TES construction set.
And you thought the Broodmother was ugly.

...

Pretty much sums up my opinions.

[-Semper-]

seramiran wrote...

-Semper- wrote...
the toolset itself is not that hard to understand, especially if you ever used a windows based editor in your life. to begin with i found it easy to start with the area editor. the next step would be to create your own level. these two wiki tutorials are well written and enough to get you going.

also the forum is full of helpful people

Really? I started with an area .... eventually found advice (not in the area section of the wiki of course) that says you need to do the levels first. Then import it or something. Maybe it was export it first ... then combine?

you do not have to start with the creation of your own level. just make a new area and select a level layout bioware already created. it ain't that hard

the level editor is plain and simple too. just create a level with basic settings, grab the lower/raise brush and play with it. just follow the wiki - if you get caught, use the forum.

[seramiran]

-Semper- wrote...
you do not have to start with the creation of your own level. just make a new area and select a level layout bioware already created. it ain't that hard

the level editor is plain and simple too. just create a level with basic settings, grab the lower/raise brush and play with it. just follow the wiki - if you get caught, use the forum.

That's only if you want to use a predesigned set or location. I want to make a one room area. I want it simple and uncluttered so I do have to make a new one. Which means I do have to make a new level.

You just described a bit of terraine editing. I just want a dirt floor in a room ... there is no dirt floor texture for a room. Which I can ignore right now as long as I can have some sort of a floor/ground since I have NO IDEA if my character will fall through the world if I don't put one in ....

When learning something I find it's better to start at the beginning, not the middle. Giving me a list of 'click here's' isn't my idea of teaching ... well not teaching effectively, anyhow.

Beginning stuff not covered in the wiki (or not covered in the beginning sections, or I haven't found the note or oblique reference that does cover it):
--access to resources is, in some part, restricted by the module you have open (while this makes sense, and is familiar to me from TES, the wiki doesn't [at least not in the beginning sections where you need to know it] say so)
--change the module and you lose access to the new stuff (also called resources) that you just made
--the definitions of add-ins & packages & modules indicates that they are quite similar and that the name differences are based on the stage at which you are using them ... which is almost true, but sufficiently wrong to cost you hours of testing time
--there is no outline of how different resource files are stored and what their location would be relative to whatever it is you are working on ... or that is IS relative to what you are working on, which it is, though there seem to be some cross-references for some of the resources you are creating  All of which means that working out a naming convention is a pain, especially since some things CAN and some things CAN'T be named the same thing, and that you will probably lose stuff and have to redo it.
--I set up a file, saved it, the log said it was saved correctly, then found out I needed a different set of resources (module) to actually continue with that file (resource) so I switched modules, can't pull up that resource in the 2nd module but can NOT use the same name, tried to reduce clutter by going back to the first module so I can delete that file and the file is no where to be found. *grrrrr*

I am using the wiki.
I am using tutorials.
I am familiar with modding.

I am frustrated.

Modifié par seramiran, 20 janvier 2010 - 08:37 .

[-Semper-]

seramiran wrote...

You just described a bit of terraine editing. I just want a dirt floor in a room ... there is no dirt floor texture for a room. Which I can ignore right now as long as I can have some sort of a floor/ground since I have NO IDEA if my character will fall through the world if I don't put one in ....

create an indoor level and browse through the avaiable models to build your room the way you need it. to view the models in an efficint way use datool, which can be found here.

how to push and pull the models around the grid is covered in sources you're already using.

[Alien Mind]

I think the toughest part of the toolset is trying to do everything at once. I've found myself getting frustrated on some very advanced stuff while I'm still learning the basics. I've also found myself wasting hours messing around with the conversation cinematic's. (Had a lot of fun with arm gestures and the other person flying back, hehe)



For me, it's all about taking the time to learn the in's and out's and even experimenting on what variables do what. Between the Wiki, forums, and video tuts I don't think I've had any questions unanswered before. There's been plenty of nights where I've spent hours figuring something out though... but my patience paid off.

[Ace002]

I think it sucks that Bioware doesnt allow access to the toolset for user's who bought the Xbox360 version of the game. I know we couldn't use the toolset on the xbox, though I think it would be nice to be able to create mods from the comp that can be imported into the console...wishfull thinking perhaps?

[ChewyGumball]

The toolset is useless without the game files. You wouldn't be able to do anything even if you could download the toolset.

[ZackArnold]

ChewyGumball wrote...

The toolset is useless without the game files. You wouldn't be able to do anything even if you could download the toolset.

Do you mean this files ? social.bioware.com/project/1331/#files

[Bibdy]

God help you trying to manipulate objects and all these different variables and entries with an XBox controller, not to mention the hardware capacity of the thing. It uses up RAM like it hasn't eaten in weeks and it just showed up at a buffet.



At best you can hope for them releasing the best community-built mods for download on the XBox, but I wouldn't hold out for hope on getting to use the toolset on the XBox.

[seramiran]

-Semper- wrote...

create an indoor level and browse through the avaiable models to build your room the way you need it. to view the models in an efficint way use datool, which can be found here.

how to push and pull the models around the grid is covered in sources you're already using.

Thanks for the link to datool. (I'm guessing it's a plugin.) I'll use it for other things I'm doing

I've already gotten it built but thanks anyhow. My point is rather that because I wanted to have an empty room for me to fill I had to build a level first. It isn't actually covered when you are starting out. There isn't a checklist or map regarding the order of steps for making things. Or that those things become resources that may or may not be sharable.

That is my objection, not that I need to go through a list to find what I want (or a near match),

[ladydesire]

Ace002 wrote...

I think it sucks that Bioware doesnt allow access to the toolset for user's who bought the Xbox360 version of the game. I know we couldn't use the toolset on the xbox, though I think it would be nice to be able to create mods from the comp that can be imported into the console...wishfull thinking perhaps?

Microsoft doesn't allow it, for anyone other than professional game developers. Even Sony isn't that heartless; at least one game I know of can be modded on the PS3, using the PC version of the game toolset.

[Eshme]

Well im intrigued by the toolset capabilities but OMG...

I wanna add a new NPC to denerim, and i am looking at the Denerim Map, i look at the Characters, i look at properties i .. you need to check out resources right.

Someone needs to put Pictures on the Wiki, i say pictures, with arrows so i will know lol. Last i touched a character it just vanished from the list.

[XxXShadiwXxX]

i still can't use this damn toolset....i want to make the memory band 200% xp more, but it keeps saying the unable to connect error....i already turned my pc files upside down....please where is the toolssql? it's not on my DAO files...

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

The argument that the DA toolset doesn't suck because it's more powerful than the NWN toolset, doesn't answer the more important question. 

How much power can one person at home in there free time who is not a professional game developer really use?

It's like telling me your car can do 150mph...where the hell are you driving it?  In reality your rarely getting above 90 and that extra power is doing little for you except bragging rights over friends.

If having power and freedom were the most important part of a successful toolset, than why bother releasing the toolset, just bundle C++ and Blender.  Way more Powerful than the toolset.  You can make ANYTHING
with them...you never will though, but you hypothetically could.  This argument should be about where the proper balance between ease of use and power lies.

The DA toolset seems to have received few if any upgrades from when professionals working full time were using it.  That's Bioware's prerogative, but it means that amateurs in their spare time, will as a rule, produce crap or
nothing at all.

We are now 7 months out from release of the toolset and the lack of any real PLAYABLE modules demonstrates this better than anything else.   In the long run the toolset will be considered a failure.  A decade after it's release, more people will still be using the NWN toolset over the DA toolset because it enables them to get there ideas into a game quickly, despite the fact that looking at the graphics has become painful. 

If the toolset is of minor concern to Bioware that is fine.  But why play it up so much?  The toolset was a big reason I bought the game.  I was excited and spent quite a bit of time writing a campaign, making up characters, writing dialogue.  But after my first 2 hours in the toolset I realized that making a module of any significance was a pipe dream.  Were I unemployed and living in my parents basement, perhaps I'd have a shot. 

So what is preferable?  A toolset that limits what I can make, but lets me create a game that is my own.  Or a toolset that gives me the satisfaction of knowing that if I could make a game, I wouldn't be limited.  If you disagree with this analysis, it isn't enough to say it, make a module that's worth playing.  Give us 8 hours of game play in world you created with characters you created. 

By the only criteria that matters, RESULTS, the only conclusion to reach is that the DA toolset sucks.

Modifié par Atraiyu Wrynn, 21 mai 2010 - 12:16 .

[Mengtzu]

We are now 7 months out from release of the toolset and the lack of any real
PLAYABLE modules demonstrates this better than anything else. 

I've released two playable standalone modules with 9+ hours of content combined.

I have a full time job and I am a 16-hour a week WoW raider.

We are lucky to have the toolset at all.  It's not a central piece of the product in the way it was for NWN.  I'm certain it's not user-friendly because there was no budget to make it so.

But you absolutely do not need to be unemployed to produce results.