100 réponses à ce sujet

[Gamer Ftw]

I never had her do anything for me.

[jadefishes]

No.

[Raiil]

Do you like your companions? Because part of the reason you're able to keep them is because Aveline pulls a +15 ****block to anyone trying to remove them.

Fenris squatting for half a decade in a wrecked mansion? Aveline does her best to let him stay there unbothered.


Anders openly using magic to heal the sick outside of the Circle? Aveline never leads the calvary to bring him in.


Blood mage in the Alienage? Notice how the templars aren't getting notices from the guard captain about a suspicious elf with no sense of direction.


The worst thing Aveline allows to happen to one of your companions is throwing Isabela in the click for a fortnight, because Isabela blatantly, openly breaks a rule of dueling. No way to overlook it.


So yeah, Aveline's got your back, even if she's a little preachy about it.

[Sarielle]

Valentia X wrote...

Do you like your companions? Because part of the reason you're able to keep them is because Aveline pulls a +15 ****block to anyone trying to remove them.

I lol'd, slap happily.

[_Aine_]

Aveline is honest, through and through. Like her or hate her, when you ask her something you know she isn't just ****ting you to make you happy. She won't kiss your ass just because you are the champion. Yes, she is awkward, imperfect. It is what makes her more *human* than most characters. Real people aren't always beautiful, perfect or even consistent. Aveline, agreeing with you or not, has your back because she is your friend, and loyalty is more important to her even than all the rules and regulations that she finds comfort, structure and stability in, despite a world where everything she believed in was eventually taken from her, despite trying everything in her power.

Aveline is just Aveline. You CAN take her at face value....and whether you like her or hate her, there IS value in that.

She is one of my favorite characters in DAII, simply for that. She has my back. My Hawke's respect that and look out for her too. =) Everyone has their own opinion of course. Plus, she and Isabella are a riot. They fight like cats in heat, but you know they would protect each other too, when not killing each other.

[Gamer Ftw]

Valentia X wrote...

Do you like your companions? Because part of the reason you're able to keep them is because Aveline pulls a +15 ****block to anyone trying to remove them.

Fenris squatting for half a decade in a wrecked mansion? Aveline does her best to let him stay there unbothered.


Anders openly using magic to heal the sick outside of the Circle? Aveline never leads the calvary to bring him in.


Blood mage in the Alienage? Notice how the templars aren't getting notices from the guard captain about a suspicious elf with no sense of direction.


The worst thing Aveline allows to happen to one of your companions is throwing Isabela in the click for a fortnight, because Isabela blatantly, openly breaks a rule of dueling. No way to overlook it.


So yeah, Aveline's got your back, even if she's a little preachy about it.

Or she's just a lazy hypocrite who knows I would kill her for trying.

[_Aine_]

Lilacs wrote...

^This !!

Thanks for expressing my exact sentiments regarding this wonderful character, Shanti.  
Kudos to Bioware and the writer, Lukas Krisjanson! 

Lukas did a fantastic job with her.  Even hating her with the intensity that the OP does proves she is a well written character.  I would kiss him for her in this game, but I would end up written in as a diseased apostitute in some tavern backroom in DA3 if I did so.   

I understand why people like or dislike her though. She is a strong character.  Those tend to go one way or the other.  

[Sarielle]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Do you like your companions? Because part of the reason you're able to keep them is because Aveline pulls a +15 ****block to anyone trying to remove them.

Fenris squatting for half a decade in a wrecked mansion? Aveline does her best to let him stay there unbothered.


Anders openly using magic to heal the sick outside of the Circle? Aveline never leads the calvary to bring him in.


Blood mage in the Alienage? Notice how the templars aren't getting notices from the guard captain about a suspicious elf with no sense of direction.


The worst thing Aveline allows to happen to one of your companions is throwing Isabela in the click for a fortnight, because Isabela blatantly, openly breaks a rule of dueling. No way to overlook it.


So yeah, Aveline's got your back, even if she's a little preachy about it.

Or she's just a lazy hypocrite who knows I would kill her for trying.

You could use these lines for Fenris and Sebastian not turning your mage companions in, too.

Same with the "she never did anything for me." Well, neither does any character you leave home all the time. Aveline, actually, might be the one who does the MOST for you and your friends if left to her own devices. The rest are totally self-interested/apathetic in most cases.

Don't get me wrong. My Jubilee found her exasperating as well, since she didn't like the whole responsiblity thing very much, or the whole law-abiding thing overmuch, either. In this case, though, I feel like you dislike her for superficial reasons (which is fine) but are looking for justification to the extreme of holding her to a different standard than other companions.

[Gamer Ftw]

Chantry boy isn't in my game.

[Sarielle]

Anders not attacking you, then, if you're pro-Templar. The Fenris bit still stands, too, as he obviously hates mages supertons (Abominable Anders in particular). Or any character you have on the rival scale.

There are others I can think of but they are unnecessarily spoiler-y. I'm sure if you think on it a second you can come up with plenty.


EDIT: Varric also seems to look out for your friends. I should have mentioned him alongside Aveline.

Modifié par Sarielle, 02 avril 2011 - 12:54 .

[Gamer Ftw]

I sided with the mages and Fenris didn't attack me must be a glitch.
And Varric is awesome like that.

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 02 avril 2011 - 12:58 .

[Sarielle]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

I sided with the mages and Fenris didn't attack me must be a glitch.
And Varric is awesome like that.

No, it happens if he's not maxed on either friendship or rivalry. He'll even do this if you were former lovers (which makes for a great story, imo, but still.)

But that wasn't really my point. My point is, any character you rival you could use the whole "Well they're just afraid of me!" argument. Which, imo, isn't at all where the devs were going with the friendship rivalry scale, but personal interpretation and all that.

[Raiil]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Do you like your companions? Because part of the reason you're able to keep them is because Aveline pulls a +15 ****block to anyone trying to remove them.

Fenris squatting for half a decade in a wrecked mansion? Aveline does her best to let him stay there unbothered.


Anders openly using magic to heal the sick outside of the Circle? Aveline never leads the calvary to bring him in.


Blood mage in the Alienage? Notice how the templars aren't getting notices from the guard captain about a suspicious elf with no sense of direction.


The worst thing Aveline allows to happen to one of your companions is throwing Isabela in the click for a fortnight, because Isabela blatantly, openly breaks a rule of dueling. No way to overlook it.


So yeah, Aveline's got your back, even if she's a little preachy about it.

Or she's just a lazy hypocrite who knows I would kill her for trying.

lol no. Aveline may be a lot of things, but weak/lazy is not one of them. She's a powerful warrior in her own right, and she's someone determined to protect someone who helped her out. Compare that to Isabela bolting with the Qunari relic or Anders turning you into an unwitting accomplice to killing a lot of people (or at least trying to).

Aveline, overbearing as she may be to some, does the most to help Hawke and friends in a difficult time while trying to keep Kirkwall as safe as possible. The fact that there are thugs in the streets has more to do with city life in general and less with her abilities as a guard captain. Unless you can bring out the proof that the seneschal, and later Meredith,  are willing to spend the gold that would be required to hire as many guards as there are doorways and alleys in Kirkwall and Aveline's the one who keeps stonewalling them, there's no proof that she's slacking in any way.

[Gamer Ftw]

Actually yes there is proof she says "I don't make my guards fight gangs in dark corners", then tries to get me to help. She admits she heard the elf lass was violated and did nothing.

[Sarielle]

Not risking her men is not quite the same as being lazy or hypocritical I didn't get the dialogue about the elf girl (I guess I didn't have her with me) but that's interestingl.

Still, it's not as though any of our companions are exactly saints. They almost all have the potential to majorly screw us over (and often do, lol). That Aveline suffers from a common prejudice doesn't really shore up the arguments you're making.

But then, you seem to cherrypick what you respond to anyhow. It's okay to just not find her aesthetically pleasing and therefore not want to bring her along. I left Isabela behind for largely the same reason. -shrug-

[_Aine_]

Sarielle wrote...

Not risking her men is not quite the same as being lazy or hypocritical I didn't get the dialogue about the elf girl (I guess I didn't have her with me) but that's interestingl. 

She basically said " There were rumours" and that the elves took the law in their own hands.  She also did not disagree when I sided with the elves then, and just sighed " You are not helping, Hawke"   

NO rivalry ding.  No friendship HIT.  She did NOT disagree, she was doing her JOB but quietly siding with her friend.  It is a delicate white picket fence to straddle but that was what was happening.  Had she truly disagreed with me, I would have gotten hit with rivalry. Just because she was doing her duty, didn't mean she didn't see the logic of the situation.  That is how I read that, anyway. 

Modifié par shantisands, 02 avril 2011 - 01:36 .

[Gamer Ftw]

I didn't " cherrypick" what I responded to. The gangs after ten years are still there she makes no one safer She ignores a guy that says hey that noble guy murders woman and thats after we found a woman hand in a warehouse. And those elf guys wouldn't have taken the law into thier own hands if she had helped In fact I wish someone could tell me anything she did to help Kirkwall at all?

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 02 avril 2011 - 01:37 .

[Raiil]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

Actually yes there is proof she says "I don't make my guards fight gangs in dark corners", then tries to get me to help. She admits she heard the elf lass was violated and did nothing.

She investigated. Or is it preferable that an accusation is enough to merit a jail sentence? Because we know that will never be abused.

And 'I don't make my guards fight in dark corners' is more 'I don't send them out, hapless and alone', not 'every night is wicked grace night at the barracks!' The one time Aveline's fitness is seriously called into question in the game is by a disgruntled ex-captain expelled for corruption and proven wrong.

[Gamer Ftw]

She isn't smart enough to play wicked grace.

[Sarielle]

@ not cherrypicking: If you say so. I don't really care enough to go back and dissect the bits you ignored to prove a point.

We know guard deaths are down in the city. We know they're not being made into sacrificial couriers, we know she was on top of potential ambushes even before she was named captain. She doesn't dismiss the Templar's murder investigation, she just asks Hawke to see if he/she thinks it's a legit concern (IE, she respects Hawke's opinion).

We also know she and the seneschal argue over her spending too much....so we can assume there's a lot Aveline -can't- do from simply lack of funds.

The overall impression I got is she's making do with what she's got as best she can.

[Gamer Ftw]

I suspect guard deaths are down because they don't do much of anything.
and is is not Hawk's job to investigate a murder it's hers she seems to want to make him do her job.

[Sarielle]

Nor is it Hawke's "job" to help free mages, or help templars catch bloodmages, or help Fenris find/catch/kill his old master, or help Merrill fix her mirror, or do anything for/relating to the Arishok, or...I think you see where I'm going with this.

I get that you like to take what you feel is a polarizing stance on something  and hope to spark some responses (I recall your Anders thread -- and I actually think Anders did what was necessary to accomplish what he wanted to accomplish).

But I gotta say, your bull****-fu is kind of weak for this kind of thing. It mostly comes down to you saying "she's ugly," and then restating the same couple arguements for why she sucks several times with slightly varying phrasing. You could have run with the "she knew about the elf rape" thing, but instead of pulling to that argument's strengths (she's a racist, she's a bigot) you plunk down your "She's lazy and hypocritical" argument again, which just doesn't follow. "She's corrupt too, she turns her head where friends are concerned" would have been another solid argument, particularly if you want to run with the hypocritical thing, but you didn't take that opportunity, either.

And I know you don't want to appear shallow, but hey. Shallow, when it comes to personal preferences, is still legitemate.

[Gamer Ftw]

And I like that you feel the need to turn my simple question into a soapbox to rant about your love for Captain Manhands.
you and the others came to this thread ranting about why I would want to kill her or make her go away and I have had to answer when really this thread was just about a plot question.
I have tried to answer you and I got people swearing at me.
I mean why are you offended and attacking me personally for asking about the game?
And the Anders thread was asking if anyone had the same opinion I did and instead of saying yes or no and stating It was turned into ranting. why can't you people discuss characters calmly or gasp JUST ANSWER THE ORIGINAL  questions.

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 02 avril 2011 - 02:16 .

[Sarielle]

Frankly, I find her overbearing and more than a little self-righteous (and yes, hypocritical). I'm neither attacking you personally, nor did I swear at you, nor am I offended...can we not have a simple debate without getting all defensive? I just like poking holes in arguments I consider weak. I'm a journalist, we sort of have to do this kind of thing by reflex.

You yourself listed what you considered her negative qualities...don't pretend you didn't expect some people to disagree with you.

EDIT: D'oh, typos.

Modifié par Sarielle, 02 avril 2011 - 02:16 .