344 réponses à ce sujet

[John Forseti]

Espada_Andy_2 wrote...

Plate_Captain88 wrote...

QuentStormborn wrote...

This enabling attitude is what allows developers to put out **** games.  Making a game actually playable is not going above and beyond.  Thats getting what you paid for.  Patching game breaking bugs and issues that should have been fixed before release (or at least already known about and being worked on) is not going above and beyond.  No, we don't expect them to find every bug, but if gamers cant even intall or run a game because of issues then clearly something is wrong with the development cycle, which includes QA.  Giving them a pass because well hey they will probably fix it eventually is just doing a disservice to gamers, who are ultimately what keep these companies in business.

Well said.

I wish Bioware had never joined EA.

Do you know what Funding is?
Stop with these "Bioware shound never have joined" nonsense etc etc...

Yeah, if EA hadn't bought BioWare it would be completely impossible for them to continue a normal developper/publisher relationship or work with another publisher.

[helloween7]

Well, I'm not playing the game again until the patch is released. And after the bugfests that were ME2 and Awakening (which never was properly patched), I've decided I won't preorder ME3.

But next time? Bioware, EA, whoever decides these things, I honestly can wait longer if that means I won't be getting that many bugs and the recycled environments (Andraste's knicker-weasels, am I tired of that ubiquitous cave).

[TrueIceD]

Why the game itself didn't go through this certification process? If it did - what's the purpose of such a process when it can't catch any single issue?

[ladyofpayne]

Need get away bug fof take Anders in party if you play for templars. I used cheat-code for it.

[HALO_Project]

LamionDeWraith wrote...

As far as critisizing the development behaviour goes, I don't believe any of us has the right to do so in the first place. Making a program is difficult, not to mention tedius, work, and when a programmer has to write line upon line of code for months at a time, issues are going to happen. As consumers, we take the manufacture and design process of the products we use for granted. We often believe that a product should be perfect when it's shipped to us. After all, we spent the money on it, right? Well, you're correct. We paid for a product, and we have the right to a safe, working version of it.

I was going to go on this long tirade but I'm not going to. Bottom line is this: I do not believe that the developers have an easy job. I'm sure that most of us can agree that what they do is hard and believe me when I say that I am grateful for all of the long hours and bleary eyed caffeine and sugar jacked nights that they surely pulled to get this game out by this impossible deadline. But that's the problem to me. It isn't the devs its the impossible deadlines. EA (and others but none except maybe Dreamcatcher and Heuristic Park [who together actually had the nerve to release a completely unfinished game for those have ever played Dungeon Lords you'll know what I mean] are quite as bad about this) tends to set a deadline that cannot realistically be met with a relatively bug free game.

I'm under no delusions. There is no such thing as a completely bug free game but a playable game with a handful of annoying but not critical bugs would be acceptable. I just want a finished game not a beta. And you know what? I'd have waited another year for this game. If it was this after being rushed, and oh did it feel rushed, then imagine what it could have been if it hadn't been rushed. I'm not screaming "BAD DEVS! SHAME ON YOU!!" I'm screaming "BAD PUBLISHERS! SHAME ON YOU!!" We whine about wanting it now and how we can't wait but we'd wait. We always do. They could have pushed out some more downloadable content to suck up our money and keep our interest, or even just kept us posted. Look at Diablo III and Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. They were a while in coming (Diablo II released in 2000 and it was March 20 2006 for PC and 360 and March 20 2007 for PS3 for the Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion) and people are still anticipating them. Waiting a little bit isn't how you lose fans or money. Pushing out betas for full price is. I love Bioware and I'm loyal to them so long as they fix this. And sure a patch would probably have still been a requirement but 100+ fixes, some of them critical, is ridiculous.

Sorry, I guess it was still a long tirade after all but this is how I feel. And Chris, thanks for the update. To hear something finally is a good thing. I understand why it was a bit vague, these forums do tend to scream foul if you are mistaken in any information release. But thanks. I just hope that EA one day realizes just who it is that really pays their salaries but they are really getting bad about punching out anything that can be considered or turned into a franchise just as fast as they can squeeze it out secure in the knowledge that they can always have the devs patch it up later.

[BTCentral]

xnoxiousx wrote...

Question why is pc patch delayed who do you need permission for that?

Or is it just because you want all 3 patches out same day.

Don't quote me on this, it's something I heard some time ago and may be completely wrong, as I forget the source and have no idea how reliable they were in the first place... but...

Apparently the reason Origins never got the patch that was supposed to be released before DA2 was due to an agreement between BioWare, Sony and Microsoft that either all platforms would be patched or none would. In other words, if something could be fixed on the PC and PS3, but not the Xbox 360 then a patch was not allowed to be released. I assume the same applies here.

Modifié par BTCentral, 02 avril 2011 - 06:32 .

[Silver]

BTCentral wrote...

xnoxiousx wrote...

Question why is pc patch delayed who do you need permission for that?

Or is it just because you want all 3 patches out same day.

Don't quote me on this, it's something I heard some time ago and may be completely wrong, as I forget the source and have no idea how reliable they were in the first place... but...

Apparently the reason Origins never got the patch that was supposed to be released before DA2 was due to an agreement between BioWare, Sony and Microsoft that either all platforms would be patched or none would. In other words, if something could be fixed on the PC and PS3, but not the Xbox 360 then a patch was not allowed to be released. I assume the same applies here.

If this is true, it's a really ****ty move...

[Andronic0s]

It's nice to see work is being done, but I hope also that steps are taken in the future to avoid issues like this from repeating.

Some of the bugs that came with the title are game breaking and with a high userpath, whoever did QA on this title dropped the ball, I work in QA myself and I can tell when an issue has to be waived because of lack of resources/time and when something must be fixed regardless of cost, as such I really hope it was QA's mistake and not Bioware who decided to launch with some of the issues currently plaguing this game (though given that it has taken them this long to patch them seems to indicate these where unknown issues)

Modifié par Andronic0s, 02 avril 2011 - 07:57 .

[TallBearNC]

silverhammer08 wrote...

BTCentral wrote...

xnoxiousx wrote...

Question why is pc patch delayed who do you need permission for that?

Or is it just because you want all 3 patches out same day.

Don't quote me on this, it's something I heard some time ago and may be completely wrong, as I forget the source and have no idea how reliable they were in the first place... but...

Apparently the reason Origins never got the patch that was supposed to be released before DA2 was due to an agreement between BioWare, Sony and Microsoft that either all platforms would be patched or none would. In other words, if something could be fixed on the PC and PS3, but not the Xbox 360 then a patch was not allowed to be released. I assume the same applies here.

If this is true, it's a really ****ty move...

If that's the case then they should stop making them for the consoles. SOE and MS have some pretty crappy rules and regulations for their console machines... but that won't happen either as the consoles bring in $$$.

Personally I see no reason to enter into any agreement saying if one is patched they all must be or none at all.

Modifié par TallBearNC, 02 avril 2011 - 08:07 .

[Trikun]

Looking forward to the patch... One has to wonder if there's any estimate on how long it will take for it to through the 'test and certification' process?

[sbatch101_]

What are the bugs? I've only played through act 1 but haven't encountered any that i know of.

[Silver]

Trikun wrote...

Looking forward to the patch... One has to wonder if there's any estimate on how long it will take for it to through the 'test and certification' process?

that can sometimes take up to two weeks, from the date the patch has been submitted until deployment to the target architecture (at least when it comes to consoles).

Because of that, PC-Gamers have to wait as well... damn "equal treatment" or all platforms.

Modifié par silverhammer08, 02 avril 2011 - 08:20 .

[ForGreatJustice]

sbatch101 wrote...

What are the bugs? I've only played through act 1 but haven't encountered any that i know of.

Just look at the Act 2 Bugs and Act 3 Bugs threads. Or if you do not want to spoil yourself, just look at the number of thread pages and see how many more both those acts have in terms of complaints. You can then assume that this means: a) more bugs and/or serious bugs that cripple gameplay or derail the plot signfiicanty.

[Trikun]

I've completed the game 3-4 times now and, as long as you stay clear of the obvious 'slow to a halt bug', and some of the other bugs, the game is quite playable (albeit with some oddly repeated scenes, missing/broken quests especially in the later acts).. Odd that some of these bugs (that really cripple your game) weren't picked up by their QA team before release though. :\\

[scpulley]

For those that might not know, there are several mods over at dragon nexus that likely fix the same things the patch will in the mean time. Specifically, the save game issue. I don't have the exact link here at work, but it's good they are fixing it. It does fix some of the random issues where you felt like your previous choices in DAO were ignored.

[PaganOak]

i hate to wait the patch , im sick and tired of this political commercial moves for make people more present ona website and create a "cicles" that bring benefits to companies.

All these bugs in a game tested are ridicolous...if it was tested. You know maybe the economic crisis makes bad thoughs in Bioware's Head.

[BTCentral]

xnoxiousx wrote...

Microsoft and sony dont own the pc....

I never said they did. Try re-reading that

[Ashii6]

I really hope that this patch will fix slow motion bug :F

[Plate_Captain88]

Espada_Andy_2 wrote...

Plate_Captain88 wrote...

QuentStormborn wrote...

This enabling attitude is what allows developers to put out **** games.  Making a game actually playable is not going above and beyond.  Thats getting what you paid for.  Patching game breaking bugs and issues that should have been fixed before release (or at least already known about and being worked on) is not going above and beyond.  No, we don't expect them to find every bug, but if gamers cant even intall or run a game because of issues then clearly something is wrong with the development cycle, which includes QA.  Giving them a pass because well hey they will probably fix it eventually is just doing a disservice to gamers, who are ultimately what keep these companies in business.

Well said.

I wish Bioware had never joined EA.

Do you know what Funding is?
Stop with these "Bioware shound never have joined" nonsense etc etc...

Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment seemed to do just fine without EA's funding.

[Shade Bagel]

Ashii6 wrote...

I really hope that this patch will fix slow motion bug :F

With how crippling that bug is, I wish they would just relaease a quicky patch that fixes just that.  The other bugs can wait.  Though it's good to know the patch is coming along.

Modifié par Shade Bagel, 02 avril 2011 - 11:36 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

BTCentral wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

The only bug t I seriously care about is the DRM one that prevents me from playing.

Sorry, Bioware/EA, but if I preorder a game I at least expect to be able to launch it. And if it takes almost a month for you guys to provide a fix for an issue like that, then I doubt I'll be preordering your games ever again since there hardly seems a point.

People are still having DRM issues? Ouch

Yep. If they had a fix for this I'd kinda expect it to be made available ASAP, not as part of a bundle that fixes other (arguably less game-breaking) bugs.

[dfjarrett]

AndyW1384 wrote...

Avissel wrote...

Tsuyiin wrote...

I can't think of a single valid reason why you can't release any patch notes before they are available to download. What other company does this?

Most of comapnys release patch notes along with the patch.

It's probably some kind of NDA between Bioware and the other companys

More likely, if a fix for a trivial issue is found (during certification) to introduce some horrendous, savegame corrupting bug, it might be most practical for them just to remove that particular fix from the patch - rather than delay the patch for another 4 or 5 days while they try to hunt down the obscure way in which they made things even worse .

If they give a list beforehand of what will be in the patch, then everyone would turn round and accuse them of being two-faced, lying [censored]s. Better to release the patch notes only when they are 100% commited to the contents of the patch - i.e. when they actually release the patch.

Refering to having a patch introduce a "horrendus bug" just gave me a horrible flashback. In Neverwinter Nights 2, there was a minor bug involving familiars. I can't remember exactly what the bug was - something to do with being unable to summon them in certain circumstances - but Obsidian made a fix for this bug by having all familiars auto-summon.

It broke the game for months, rendering players unable to finish the final battle.

In the end sequence, the team of characters are supposed to be transported to the Big Bad Guy's lair for the final battle, but one of the summoned familiars takes the place of one of the characters (a gnome named Grobnar). He is supposed to say some lines in the middle of the final battle against the Big Bad Guy, but can't (since he is not there). The end result was that, instead of a dramatic conclusion, players got to look at a Big Bad Guy who was stuck in dialog mode - he could not be fought or killed. And so, after dozens of hours of gameplay, players were hopelessly stuck in what should have been the last 5-10 minutes of the climax.

It's amazing, witnessing the law of unintended consequences in action.

I agree that this product was released with too many bugs, but we should cut them a little slack on the patchnotes and the patch testing. Knowing the patchnotes beforehand wont change anything, and the patch should come our way soon enough....

[AurorusBorealus]

"Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment seemed to do just fine without EA's funding."

That was a different era for one thing. Secondly, Bioware was not simply a game company. They also developed software for the medical industy, which constituted the bulk of their revenue and funded them when they began work on Baldur's Gate. The production costs for a game were a fraction of what they are today.
Keep in mind, most businesses generate revenue each day. Game developing companies only generate significant revenue for a few months after a game is published. A game today is a large capital investment: tens of millions. In order to spend more in production on the next game, the money must come from proceeds from the last game, thus requiring a substantial profit if overall quality is to be improved. Furthermore, publishers have had a long history of breaking game developers, and Bioware experienced a lot of problems with Interplay (the publisher of Baldur's Gate) as they tried to produce Neverwinter Nights, eventually having the game published by Infogrames (who also caused problems).
There are 2 real culprits here. The first is EAs insistence on publishing release dates nearly a year in advance. They are treating Bioware's products akin to the next installment of Madden Football, which are nothing more than minor annual upgrades to an already finished product. The second culprit is the Star Wars MMORPG. Development of this game is bleeding all revenue and demanding ever more. Once Star Wars is finally released, it will, hopefully, drive revenue such that the DA and ME franchises will not be under such production pressures, and we will get more finished products (as a small shareholder in EA, I certainly hope Star Wars drives revenues, or I will lose some money myself).