341 réponses à ce sujet

[DeathStride]

Lithuasil wrote...

DeathStride wrote...

Honestly, as badass as Meredith is when she's not in crazy-b*tch mode(at which point she just gets a ton of HP and puts out almost no damage), as badass as she is, without the lyrium-saber she really can't take on the Arishok 1 on 1. Compare her boss battle to the Arishok duel where every hit is deadly and you're running like a pansy most of the time. There's just way too much strength differential between the two.

Heck, the Arishok could probably shatter her normal blade if he brought down both his axe and sword down on her as she parried, assuming she even had the strength to parry vertical blows of that magnitude.

If we're arguing lore, not gameplay, that doesn't make the arishok any faster. It means however, that he looses the twenty qunari worth of hitpoints he has hidden somewhere inside his chest. Meaning it's still as easy for Meredith to dodge his blows, but her sword has plenty of effect on the insufficiently armored qunari body (see what happens to the saarebas?)

I'd say it's a mix of both lore and gameplay with things like Act 2 boss level vs. Act 3 boss level considerations added in but I completely agree that while the Arishok has the advantage in strength, Meredith probably does in speed. In fact, that's why the battle would be so epic and rather close(IMO), because they both have different strengths(FLBW) but are both extremely skilled fighters.

Some might say Meredith would win simply because the Arishok couldn't pin her down enough to take her out because she's too fast. I would respectfully disagree, but that's only my opinion, either way it would be a very close fight.

Modifié par DeathStride, 03 avril 2011 - 03:33 .

[The Angry One]

DeathStride wrote...

Some might say Meredith would win simply because the Arishok couldn't pin her down enough to take her out because she's too fast. I would respectfully disagree, but that's only my opinion, either way it would be a very close fight.

That at least is a reasonable conclusion, my strongest issue is with those saying the Arishok would sweep Meredith aside with no effort.

[sheppard7]

The Angry One wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...

Without the sword, she's just a broad that hasn't gotten romanced. Totally soft.

A "broad" who cuts your manly, manly Qunari like butter.

Where did Meredith do that to the Arishok? See? You keep bringing up things you WANT to happen in the game then tell others they have to use actual game events. Wow. Genious. lol

[Rifneno]

sheppard7 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...

She did NOTHING in the game without the sword.

She did not have the lyrium demonblade at the end of Act II.  This is the same point where she easily decapitates a qunari.  She also impaled him.  Completely impaled, as in like a foot or two of her sword was sticking out the other end.  We see for an absolute fact that even without the slavestatue sword she can slice up a qunari without breaking a sweat.

Hawke did things to scrub Qunari before the Arishok too. Everyone did. My dog did too. But when it was time to face the 'Shok, where was Meredith? Not going near him.

And what did Orsino (sp?) do to a TON of them if you picked the distraction option? So that means Orsino > Meredith?

What a sad backpeddle.  You said she did "NOTHING" before the sword.  You're wrong.  It's as simple as that.

[sheppard7]

The Angry One wrote...

DeathStride wrote...

Some might say Meredith would win simply because the Arishok couldn't pin her down enough to take her out because she's too fast. I would respectfully disagree, but that's only my opinion, either way it would be a very close fight.

That at least is a reasonable conclusion, my strongest issue is with those saying the Arishok would sweep Meredith aside with no effort.

Another issue. You say you have an issue but you are doing the EXACT same thing in reverse in favor of Meredith all through this thread.

[The Angry One]

sheppard7 wrote...

Where did Meredith do that to the Arishok? See? You keep bringing up things you WANT to happen in the game then tell others they have to use actual game events. Wow. Genious. lol

You claimed she did nothing, when she in fact easily killed a Saarebas twice her size and saved Hawke's life in the process.
She did nothing to the Arishok because she never fought him.

sheppard7 wrote...

Another issue. You say you have an
issue but you are doing the EXACT same thing in reverse in favor of
Meredith all through this thread.

I said crazy sword Meredith would sweep him aside due to supernatural power.
I also said that regular Meredith would be a lot closer but in my opinion she would prevail thanks to the Arishok's base clumsiness.

Modifié par The Angry One, 03 avril 2011 - 03:37 .

[sheppard7]

Rifneno wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...

She did NOTHING in the game without the sword.

She did not have the lyrium demonblade at the end of Act II.  This is the same point where she easily decapitates a qunari.  She also impaled him.  Completely impaled, as in like a foot or two of her sword was sticking out the other end.  We see for an absolute fact that even without the slavestatue sword she can slice up a qunari without breaking a sweat.

Hawke did things to scrub Qunari before the Arishok too. Everyone did. My dog did too. But when it was time to face the 'Shok, where was Meredith? Not going near him.

And what did Orsino (sp?) do to a TON of them if you picked the distraction option? So that means Orsino > Meredith?

What a sad backpeddle.  You said she did "NOTHING" before the sword.  You're wrong.  It's as simple as that.

That to me is NOTHING. Because I've seen a LOT of Qunari getting ripped new holes by many people/animals. Hawke, any member of the crew including the dog, Orsino, and probably Sandal would too.

Sandal would probably own them all by himself. ENCHANTMENT

[Lithuasil]

DeathStride wrote...
I'd say it's a mix of both lore and gameplay with things like Act 2 boss level vs. Act 3 boss level considerations added in but I completely agree that while the Arishok has the advantage in strength, Meredith probably does in speed. In fact, that's why the battle would be so epic and rather close(IMO), because they both have different strengths(FLBW) but are both extremely skilled fighters.

Bolded is what I'd disagree with. They're both dangerous foes in their own right, yes, but what makes the arishok dangerous is his size, his strength, and his stamina. Aside from that, he's a montrous tool, wailing with large hunks of iron. Like say, the harvester Orsino turns into. That thing is pretty dangerous, but no one would call it skilled.

Now in a battle, where endurance is the first virtue, the Arishok has pretty good chances. But, speaking from personal experience at least, in a straight forward duel, a skilled fighter will always best a strong one. 
(Which is of course implying, Meredith would agree to fight a duel in the first place, when she has no reason to - at this point, the arishok is down to a dozen men, whereas the templars (that are stationed in the gallows, not the city) haven't even begun to deploy. What we see fighting, is merely a collection of templars guarding the chantry, or those that are off duty, strolling through the city.)

[wowpwnslol]

Meredith's skills are that of a templar. Useful for killing even the most powerful mages. Completely useless against a mountain of pure brute strength like Arishok who focuses on melee combat only. Arishok wins.

[Camenae]

What? All I saw was "his size, his strength, his stamina"....mmm.

Oh, sorry.

[Wulfram]

Meredith would win because she's got the common sense to wear armour.

[Lithuasil]

Wulfram wrote...

Meredith would win because she's got the common sense to wear armour.

Especially the breastplate with the giant weakspot along the spine, that doesn't make it easier to wear or to get into, and is just there because. 

[QwibQwib]

I find arishok easier
Meredith annoying...

[The Angry One]

Lithuasil wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Meredith would win because she's got the common sense to wear armour.

Especially the breastplate with the giant weakspot along the spine, that doesn't make it easier to wear or to get into, and is just there because. 

The Qunari, proving men can wear hideously impractical armour in the name of sexiness since 2011.

[baddogkelevra]

Everyone knows that the most dangerous people in Dragon Age are women who use 2-handed swords (Ser Cauthrien). So obviously Meredith.

[The Angry One]

Filament wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

Especially the breastplate with the giant weakspot along the spine, that doesn't make it easier to wear or to get into, and is just there because. 

The Qunari, proving men can wear hideously impractical armour in the name of sexiness since 2011.

The Arishok isn't wearing any sort of plate, I thought she was referring to the irregular hole in the back of Meredith's armor. (seen here)

Oh, that.
Mind you regular Templar armour and in fact all armour with similar models has no plate along the back at all, Meredith's at least has plates on either side for deflection.
Persumably it's that way to make it easier to take off. In any case all these armours have heavy chainmail undershirts.

Edit: Here's a comparison.

Modifié par The Angry One, 03 avril 2011 - 05:11 .

[PantheraOnca]

We have no valid basis to compare the two. Bossfights in which the npc is supposed to lose are not a valid measuring stick.

but what makes the arishok dangerous is his size, his strength, and his stamina. Aside from that, he's a montrous tool, wailing with large hunks of iron... That thing is pretty dangerous, but no one would call it skilled.

We have no basis to believe the arishok is unskilled. The way a warrior pc fights does not show that he is skilled or just brute forcing, the way the arishok fights does not show that he is skilled or just brute forcing. The fight with meredith also doesn't show how skilled/unskilled she is. we have no basis to think she is particularly good with a sword or particularly more powerful than any other fighter, aside from her rank.

You don't get to the top of a warrior caste by being unskilled. He is not that much larger than any other military qunari. if he happens to be completely skillless, then he is so much stronger/larger/stamina-er(?) than his opponents that no amount of skill could help you. it would be like standing before a landslide with a sword and thinking you could skill your way out of it.

Now, as far as speculation goes:

Let's assume that Meredith's speed is a match for the Arishok's size/strength/endurance.
Let's also assume that they are approximately equally skilled.
Therefore, we must conclude that the difference between them is the type of skill they have. The Arishok is trained to fight other fighters. Meredith is trained to fight mages. By virtue of their target opponents, the Arishok should come out on top in a direct fight between themselves.

[The Angry One]

That a Templar's primary duty is to contain mages doesn't mean they're trained only to fight mages, Templars serve as the standing army of the Chantry so they would have to have a variety of skills.

[PantheraOnca]

The Angry One wrote...

That a Templar's primary duty is to contain mages doesn't mean they're trained only to fight mages, Templars serve as the standing army of the Chantry so they would have to have a variety of skills.

Correct. I'm not saying that it would be a blow out. What I am saying, is that given that they have equal capabilities, the fact that one trains to fight mages, at all, will take away from their capability when they are not fighting a mage, or in other words, due to her specialization, Meredith has a mark against her that the Arishok doesn't.

[Zinou]

Super Meredith vs Arishok = Super Meredith wins

Meredith vs Arishok = Arishok wins

Meredith vs Warden Carver = Warden Carver wins

[The Angry One]

Filament wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

*snip*

Is that Hawke in Aveline's plate with Meredith's sword?

Meredith's sword, yes. Meredith's outfit on the left, heavy Templar on the right.
Aveline's guard captain outfit is basically the same from the upper back.

Modifié par The Angry One, 03 avril 2011 - 05:25 .

[Ympulse]

I'm just going to say this.

Angry one, you're obviously running multiple mods. Your opinion is invalid when discussing the game in it's retail form. Troll elsewhere.

[The Angry One]

Ympulse wrote...

I'm just going to say this.

Angry one, you're obviously running multiple mods. Your opinion is invalid when discussing the game in it's retail form. Troll elsewhere.

... because mods affect a story discussion.
You couldn't fail more if you had a Jacob avatar.

... oh wait.