72 réponses à ce sujet

[KJandrew]

 I just finished my second playthrough of DA2 and i got thinking, can we not have a third option.
Now i don't mean like Redcliffe where everything is all right. 
I mean like Fallout: New Vegas where they technically had a fourth choice. You could go with Caesar, NCR orMr. House. Or  you could say bugger to that and go your own way, fighting for the People of New Vegas. I just wish we could do that for DA2. Instead of siding with  Templars, who are being a bit too extreame in calling the right of anullment or the mages, who betray, lie and constantly complain you could just fight for the people of Kirkwall, getting rid of both threats or maybe kill meridith then put the mages back in their tower. Could we not become the Viscount but by the will of th people, not at the sufferance of the templars.  

[Porenferser]

Yes, I would have liked the idea of eradacating both of them.

Because after finishing DAII I really had enough of Templars and Mages as well.
Fanatics wherevever you looked...

[MadMoskus]

Yeah, I would like that.

On my first playthrough, I went through the entire game being certain to side with the templars. Then, when Meredith was like "Every mage is to be exectued immediately", I felt like whatever I would choose would be a bad option.

[RyuStrife]

I'd enjoy that as well. As Meredith stated, Hawk is THE Champion of Kirkwall. It was for the people that he was Champion named. Not for the two major over the top groups who screwed you in the end anyways.

[Huntress]

Yes in the hole game you find 5 or 6 good mages and 2-3 good templars..

I felt so bad I started playing Origens again.

[Deified Data]

Fact: You have to destroy both figureheads, anyway.

Why does the game force you to side with one over the other, then, if it makes no difference? The Templars try to arrest you whether you side with them or not. Orsino becomes an abomination whether you side with him or not. If everyone's against you, why can't you just decide to wage war against both groups if neither one trusts or respects you?

Siding with the Templars and becoming Viscount is the closest I've come to a sane, acceptable ending. If order must be restored to kirkwall, let it be me doing it, not the Templars or the Blood Mages (because there are no "regular mages").

[Torax]

Jokes on all of us. There is really no choice. Just a notion of who you maybe supported. No matter what both the villains are dead and a war is started that you have no say in.

[Mahtisonni]

The Champion of Kirkwall seems to be awfully restricting career choice.

It's weird how a person who sides with the common man and hardly antagonizes anybody, but isn't afraid to slit a few throats when it's necessary can't get to the damn viscounts office even after killing the previous tyrant.

For some reason you need to have a religious organization backing you up?
Anders! Can you show me how to make that potion again? I think that it's time to teach people that religion has no place in politics.

Modifié par Mahtisonni, 01 avril 2011 - 09:31 .

[RyuStrife]

Eh what else is new eh Torax? What can you say... Gamlen was right Amell blood line is cursed. xD

[Bayz]

Porenferser wrote...

Yes, I would have liked the idea of eradacating both of them.

Because after finishing DAII I really had enough of Templars and Mages as well.
Fanatics wherevever you looked...

Hmm and how would you faced the Divine of Orlais if they end up declaring the exalted march "Faith" said they might be preparing without support?

I wish there were a chance to return to Ferelden and tell Kirkwall to shove it...but then again there would be no game.

Modifié par Bayz, 01 avril 2011 - 09:31 .

[RyuStrife]

Mahtisonni wrote...

The Champion of Kirkwall seems to be awfully restricting career choice.

It's weird how a person who sides with the common man and hardly antagonizes anybody, but isn't afraid to slit a few throats when it's necessary can't get to the damn viscounts office even after killing the previous tyrant.

For some reason you need to have a religious organization backing you up?
Anders! Can you show me how to make that potion again?

Ya serious. Its like everyone is the Divine's bish. The option that majority of PC's WOULD choose is merely a faux. I mean I like killing the two villians either way. Orsina deserved it, and Meredith deserved it even more.

But why need a Templar? In fact being an Noble originally AND Champion should of been enough weight to be Viscount early in the game.

[Mahtisonni]

Bayz wrote...
Hmm and how would you faced the Divine of Orlais if they end up declaring the exalted march "Faith" said they might be preparing without support?

Armies are rather fragile, despite all their might.
Poison wells here, contaminate granaries there... Not to mention the funny little trick Anders showed us.

If they come en masse then by cutting their supply the march stops. 
If they come in small groups then it's just like walking the streets of kirkwall at night and your daily routines are hardly distrupted.

Patience, poison, hunger and disease can fell even the mightiest army.
No magic is needed for that.

Modifié par Mahtisonni, 01 avril 2011 - 09:42 .

[Mahtisonni]

RyuStrife wrote...
Ya serious. Its like everyone is the Divine's bish. The option that majority of PC's WOULD choose is merely a faux. I mean I like killing the two villians either way. Orsina deserved it, and Meredith deserved it even more.

But why need a Templar? In fact being an Noble originally AND Champion should of been enough weight to be Viscount early in the game.

I could somehow understand that a mage wouldn't be able to secure position of the Viscount, but that's what carver is there for am I right?

[RyuStrife]

Mahtisonni wrote...

RyuStrife wrote...
Ya serious. Its like everyone is the Divine's bish. The option that majority of PC's WOULD choose is merely a faux. I mean I like killing the two villians either way. Orsina deserved it, and Meredith deserved it even more.

But why need a Templar? In fact being an Noble originally AND Champion should of been enough weight to be Viscount early in the game.

I could somehow understand that a mage wouldn't be able to secure position of the Viscount, but that's what carver is there for am I right?

Exactly! Just bait him into it '...Ya know Carver...If you were Viscount.... You wouldn't be in my shadow anymore.'

[Huntress]

Carver is too insecure, he will be as good viscount as the dead one but, with your name.. Nop better let the people choose.

[Bayz]

Yeah I was more thinking in setting Seb at Starkhaven's throne and try to move Tantervale to our side. That would make the war bareable. But with kirkwal itself alone no atter how many wheels you poison (they can just destroy your fleet and disembark in you own port depending on how many people joins the march)

If it's only Orlais they can just embark the troops via al Royeaux and Val Chevin and disembark in your port, they counting with mages and you don't.

Doable but you need very very powerful friends (and Ferelden entering at war with Orlais at once to block the Waking Sea

Modifié par Bayz, 01 avril 2011 - 09:49 .

[KJandrew]

You could rule Kirkwall youself, or through if you're a mage then use Carver as a puppet and then put Seb in Starkhaven, again as your puppet and you've got two of the most powerful cities in the free marches under your control

[Alelsa]

KJandrew wrote...

I mean like Fallout: New Vegas where they technically had a fourth choice. You could go with Caesar, NCR orMr. House. Or  you could say bugger to that and go your own way, fighting for the People of New Vegas. I just wish we could do that for DA2.

Oh, absolutely.  The more choices and branches in the story, the more paths I can take through it in subsequent runs and the game will last longer.

Thing is, the more choices like that there are, the more difficult it becomes to have a sequel that bases itself on our choices.  NV did it by completely disassociating itself from the story that occured in F3. 

At this point someone is bound to point out that DA2's story was pretty disconnected from DA:O, and that the choices you make didn't always matter because people you killed are now alive again.  But I'm talking about if the game had been perfect (or close to it, at least).

The choice pretty much comes down to either wide-branching endings, or storyline continuation in sequels.

That said, I do feel there was a little more scope for options at the end of both DA:O and DA2 without making sequels too difficult.  Certainly DA2 wouldn't have changed that much with an option of "The archdemon actually won" in DA:O - you'd just have more refugees arriving from Ferelden later on, eventually followed by news that it had fallen to the Blight.  Obviously I don't know the story for DA3 and how it would affect that, but it's not impossible to write something that works whether or not Ferelden has fallen.

Modifié par Alelsa, 01 avril 2011 - 10:00 .

[Bayz]

KJandrew wrote...

You could rule Kirkwall youself, or through if you're a mage then use Carver as a puppet and then put Seb in Starkhaven, again as your puppet and you've got two of the most powerful cities in the free marches under your control

If Carver is in and he is still a Templar you can just kill Cullen and have Carver named Knight Commander and tell in Orlais that everything is fine and there are no bloodmages just people in toga chilling out.

sounds stupid but might be enough to stop the March...and give you time to take Tantervale with Seb's help from Starkhaven...

That supposing you canconvince both of them to follow you

Modifié par Bayz, 01 avril 2011 - 10:03 .

[MICHELLE7]

I think a middle of the road choice would have been great but the way it ended kinda put a damper on that. Either choice concludes with there being an overthrow of the templars and the freeing of the mages from all the circles. Don't see how there can be a rallying cry for war when both sides bite the dust. The way they wrote it doesn't leave room for the third option no matter how good it sounds but it does make it more simple programming wise since they really only have one basic starting point for the next game...mages freed, templars rebelled.

[Demx]

Mahtisonni wrote...

Bayz wrote...
Hmm and how would you faced the Divine of Orlais if they end up declaring the exalted march "Faith" said they might be preparing without support?

Armies are rather fragile, despite all their might.
Poison wells here, contaminate granaries there... Not to mention the funny little trick Anders showed us.

If they come en masse then by cutting their supply the march stops. 
If they come in small groups then it's just like walking the streets of kirkwall at night and your daily routines are hardly distrupted.

Patience, poison, hunger and disease can fell even the mightiest army.
No magic is needed for that.

I like that idea, but instead of poison, let's use the ingredients for the joining ritual. After all the perpetration are made, call in the wardens and tell them about all their new recruits they can find in the once densely populated city of Kirkwall.

[PsychoBlonde]

Yeah, a plague on both your houses moment would have been awesome, especially since you wind up fighting Meredith and Orsino regardless of what you do.

[KJandrew]

I came up with a better idea. Take a leaf out of Eric Cartman's book and just say
"Screw you guys i'm going home"

[Apollo Starflare]

I was all set to come in here and use the Redcliffe example as a reason why I didn't want a third choice, but you covered that!

I think on the whole siding with the Templars IS siding with Kirkwall. The average joe is scared of the Mages and as Meredith says would want something done after the Chantry was destroyed. With that said (quickly, before the wrath of the Mages comes down upon me!) I think there was room to mix it up a bit more than there was for both options. For instance they have that scene if you side with the Templars where you can save some Mages from death.

The ending on the whole is one of the portions of the game (ignoring the recycled areas for a moment) that felt the most rushed. I felt most of it was polished, but there just wasn't enough. More options would definitely help alleviate that feeling, and wouldn't have to offer a cheap 'save everyone' button as you point out.

Taking on both could have worked actually, even if it seems mad. You practically end up taking on both anyway. Would have felt a bit Serenity-ish, which is no bad thing.

Modifié par Apollo Starflare, 01 avril 2011 - 10:26 .

[Gaelem]

Yes there should have been a neutral option where you walk or stand with the revered mother like she hints at. Would have still worked, people could have said you were on the wrong side and really only in the middle, so worked in the overall story.