72 réponses à ce sujet

[Apollo Starflare]

Ziggeh wrote...

Cthulhu.Dreams wrote...

The mages have super powers, but the templars won't let them use said super powers to..say.. heal people.

When they're telling you that Arl Eamon is ill in Origins, they say that he was even beyond the help of magic, so presumably they had a go, and it says in the codex somewhere that templars keep a particularly close eye on spirit healers, who one assumes aren't just dealing with the occasionally grazed knee.

I've seen others who seem to think the Mages are all locked up in the Gallows or otherwise have no room to do certain things, I think it stems from the fact DA2 does a poor job of showing the Gallows itself and the more positive 'normal' side of Templar/Mage interaction on a daily basis. As you say stuff like spirit healing goes on it just isn't really very obvious amidst the drama of the 'evul mages' thing.

[Arppis]

sth128 wrote...

So you want the options to be:
1. Genocide
2. Genocide
3. More Genocide
4. Walk away

Seriously? That's your idea of "more options"? Frankly if you want another option then it should consist of actions DIFFERENT from the ones offered. For example, convincing Cullen and the Templars to rail against Meredith, without the need to invoke the right of annulment; or discovering Orsino's secret and convince Meredith that Orsino is the true source of corruption.

This isn't *bleep* GTA, where the best solution is to take a semi-auto and gun down everybody. I mean, why stop at the Mages and Templars? Lots of Kirkwallers hate Feraldens, and there are gangs everywhere. Why not just kill EVERYONE in Kirkwall/

While we're there, Isabella betrayed Hawke, so kill her. Aveline didn't budge and ignited the war with the Qunari, so she's dead too. Merrile? Blood mage.. Anders? Terrorist. Fenris? Crazed murderer. Death, death, death.

Hell, kill Verric too for his disturbing chest hair. The end should be Hawke sitting alone on the Viscount's throne amidst a sea of blood and corpses. Why not?

Did say diplomatic response would be nice too... but I am not great at great at finding correct words for it. Also forcing a peace wouldn't be a bad choice either. Or just killing both leaders and then appointing more sensible ones.

[GodWood]

KJandrew wrote...
Do you wish there was a third choice.?

Yes.
All submit to the qun.

[sth128]

GodWood wrote...

KJandrew wrote...
Do you wish there was a third choice.?

Yes.
All submit to the qun.

The Qun is a LIE! One would have a better chance submitting to CAKE.

[KJandrew]

Kartikeya wrote...

Here's the thing:

Sometimes there is no third option. At least, no third option that would viable in that situation. Sometimes you can't play the neutral card or refuse to choose a side, because refusing to choose means no one's going to be having your back either.

This idea that Hawke should have just singlehandedly destroyed both forces is ignoring a major theme of this game, in that the legendary Champion was a real flesh and blood human being with human limitations (at least, to the extent of storyline and gameplay segregation, anyway. Being a regular Joe who died permanently from a single arrow would not make for fun gameplay). People do things outside of Hawke's (and therefore the player's) control. Hawke's as caught up in this inevitable hurricane as anyone. Hawke is not capable of singlehandedly taking on two armies at once with only the help of her small handful of allies (some of whom would, as with the other choices, not necessarily go along with this idea anyway) no matter how many bandit waves you wipe out.
.

I'm not suggesting that you single handedly take on the Templars and the Mages. I was thinking you could use the  City Guard to restore order to Kirkwall, killing Meridith and Orsino if need be and then Rule as the Viscount or leave the city under a new leader

[Orion34]

GodWood wrote...

KJandrew wrote...
Do you wish there was a third choice.?

Yes.
All submit to the qun.

This. Both the mages and templars are extremists and out of control. There is no communication between the two to find middle ground anywhere.

[AlexXIV]

Change is comming ... in DA3 maybe. Didn't come in DA2.

[graciegrace]

I personally wanted the option to hand over Anders to Meredith as a peace offering.

[Foryou]

At first I was mad about it but then I thought about it (shocking concept). Hawke couldn't really stay neutral. If he did he would be enemies on both sides then. To add on Kirkwall would probably be completely destroyed from it and the people would probably get caught in the crossfire like with the chantery. So Hawke really didn't have a chocie unless you had the let Kirkwall burn to the ground option.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yes. I wanted a choice with an actual rise to power and Hawke acting like the leader he / she could have been. To mobilize a broad opposition front against Meredith.

But no, Hawke has to be a lazy good for nothing for 3 years.

[ms_sunlight]

I am reminded of the ending to the 2004 The Bard's Tale, where you can choose between a manipulative demon goddess, a murderous nutcase of a druid or... walking away, getting drunk and partying with your undead friends. Is that what you want?

Seriously though, if you want an example of multiple ending choice you can't do better than Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines, where a conversation you have in a taxi cab chooses between 4 different factions plus "none of the above". DA2 reminded me a heck of a lot of V:TMB narratively, as they were both stories of someone new to a strange world trying to find their place in it while events went on that were outside their control.

Much like Lacroix in V:TMB, Meredith will not allow Hawke to walk away. There are interesting parallels to be drawn between Meredith and Lacroix and their places in their relative narratives, IMO.

[sylvanaerie]

Well, it may just be in game that you have to choose sides but each of my Hawke's (regardless if they sided mage/templar) didn't really 'choose' either as both Orsino and Meredith are lunatics. Meredith's insanity is just more evident sooner.
Really, the ONLY reason my Hawke does anything in that final ginormous mess is to reduce CIVILIAN casualties. Screw the mages, Anders has doomed those who can't fight back and screw the templars for following Meredith on her genocidal path. My Hawke is just trying to save as many innocent lives as he/she can.

[FaeQueenCory]

It would have been nice....
It would also have been nice to face Carver in a one-on-one or a four-on-twenty (here's looking at you, Fenris), and kill him...
But, c'est la vie...

[PPR223]

I wouldn't have minded a decision of kill everyone, because they are all so bloody annoying

[rayvioletta]

a third choice? I'd have settled for a second choice instead of two supposedly different ways of getting the exact same result in almost the exact same way.

but yes, an option not to take either side would have been good. while it's probably too much to ask for that we be able to fight out way through the mages and templars to the hanged man and just leave them to it once the beer is secured, an option to help the city guard save the innocents caught in the crossfire and try to contain/stop the fighting is not an unreasonable expectation

[GU1LD3NST3RN]

What "choice"?

The game gives you a false binary choice to make between insane mages and insane templars, and then you end up killing the leaders of both anyway. No matter what choices you make, the end result is *exactly the same*.

Compare this to Origins where depending on your decisions you could place one of 3 people on the throne of Ferelden (not including possible pairings of rulers) sacrifice 2 of those possible leaders in the battle against the Archdemon, and potentially create a freaking demon-baby-thing. Sure, you always have the result of "you killed the Archdemon" but the possible effects of your decisions post-battle are pretty tremendous.

I got no sense of that variable lasting impact at the end of DA2. No matter what you do, the exact same thing happens. Ultimately, you're a puppet of the plot.

[The Spirit of Dance]

flee to starkhaven then come back with an army to "annul" kirkwall. It probably would have made the exiled prince dlc more interesting

[Ingu]

Yes, definitely. I don't care if both sides started attacking you or all your comrades abandoned you, but that was a really weak moment for Bioware. = =

[PantheraOnca]

Haven't read the rest of the thread, but yes, I would have liked a "kill all crazy mages and totalitarian templar" option. Also known in some circles as "The Stupids Purge."

[PantheraOnca]

sth128 wrote...

So you want the options to be:
1. Genocide
2. Genocide
3. More Genocide
4. Walk away

Seriously? That's your idea of "more options"? Frankly if you want another option then it should consist of actions DIFFERENT from the ones offered. For example, convincing Cullen and the Templars to rail against Meredith, without the need to invoke the right of annulment; or discovering Orsino's secret and convince Meredith that Orsino is the true source of corruption.

This isn't *bleep* GTA, where the best solution is to take a semi-auto and gun down everybody. I mean, why stop at the Mages and Templars? Lots of Kirkwallers hate Feraldens, and there are gangs everywhere. Why not just kill EVERYONE in Kirkwall/

While we're there, Isabella betrayed Hawke, so kill her. Aveline didn't budge and ignited the war with the Qunari, so she's dead too. Merrile? Blood mage.. Anders? Terrorist. Fenris? Crazed murderer. Death, death, death.

Hell, kill Verric too for his disturbing chest hair. The end should be Hawke sitting alone on the Viscount's throne amidst a sea of blood and corpses. Why not?

Partway through my second playthrough I did want a pile of corpses because damn some stupid @#$@ is going on.

[The Angry One]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes. I wanted a choice with an actual rise to power and Hawke acting like the leader he / she could have been. To mobilize a broad opposition front against Meredith.

But no, Hawke has to be a lazy good for nothing for 3 years.

Not Hawke's fault really. Look at the transition between Act 2 and Act 3.
You appear 3 years later in Hightown with the same party you had entering the Viscount's Keep. That means Hawke and co. time warped into the future!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Not to mention the same clothes.