26 réponses à ce sujet

[egervari]

I've been playing a lot of ME1, just getting all the achievements that I didn't get before and trying out a lot of the other options I never did before.

Anyway, since you can give bonus skills to your character, wouldn't Vanguard basically be the best class? It already has Adrenaline Burst, which is extremely powerful and can't be given to another character class... but you *can* give Singularity to any class you want. To me, this seems kind of broken. The Vanguard gets Throw, Lift, Singularity, Warp, etc., which is basically like having a full biotic. But in addition to that, you get better health, quicker access to Pistols, etc. too.

It seems to me that this character can basically do it all. Using Adrenaline Burst to basically cast 2 lifts and singularities is really, really powerful... no?

Once you give the Vanguard Singularity, there seems to be very little reason to play as a Sentinel or Adept, no?

What do you think?

[Dominus]

It's a powerful class, but it's hard to decipher which one is really "the best". The classes in ME2 got a severe(and much needed) rebalancing. I personally prefer Infiltrator - Invisibility that greatly increases your damage, and allows sniper rifle slowdown? Yeah.

[Whatever42]

Stop toying with us. We all know that you know vanguards don't get AR and that singularity isn't a bonous power.
Silly asari.

oops... you want to know about ME1

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 01 avril 2011 - 09:43 .

[Xephyr829]

It just depends what feels best to you.

I play a Sentinel.

[termokanden]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Stop toying with us. We all know that you know vanguards don't get AR and that singularity isn't a bonous power. Silly asari.

It is in ME1.

Anyway I'd say the most powerful classes are Soldier, Vanguard and Infiltrator. Hard to decide which one is more powerful. They are all more or less unkillable if you upgrade their defensive ability. Where Vanguards get some extra casting power, Soldiers and Infiltrators get large damage bonuses.

[PrinceLionheart]

DominusVita wrote...

It's a powerful class, but it's hard to decipher which one is really "the best". The classes in ME2 got a severe(and much needed) rebalancing. I personally prefer Infiltrator - Invisibility that greatly increases your damage, and allows sniper rifle slowdown? Yeah.

Infiltrator didn't have those powers in ME1. 

I love ME1 Vanguard. could do everything the Adept could save for the Stasis!Damage. But then again, Biotics were pretty broken in the first game.

[termokanden]

PrinceLionheart wrote...
Infiltrator didn't have those powers in ME1. 

No, they had Immunity instead. Why be invisible when you can be immortal? 

[egervari]

Well, Adept is certainly a good class to play if you haven't unlocked Singularity yet for first play-through. If anything, it'll unlock Singularity so it can be used on a Vanguard later.

But when comparing the two... I'm not sure what the Adept has to offer over a Vanguard once you give it Singularity. The Adept can't even use Medium armor - so there is no reason to put points into Basic Armor once you unlock Pistols. You can argue that it doesn't matter if you just spam Barrier anyway, but more Damage Resistance never hurts and the Vanguard gets twice as many uses of Barrier anyway, offering even more protection.

The Adept's one big disadvantage too is that it has to wait for their cooldowns to be over. The Vanguard can use Adrenaline Burst, which is really, really powerful when you double the Lifts, Singularities, Master Marksman's and Barriers. How can you even come close to losing once you have all of these?

The Vanguard also gives the option to have Shotguns. You may choose to use Pistols anyway, but you have more options.

The only thing the Adept has over the Vanguard is the 14% reduction in their talent use... but considering the Vanguard can use Adrenaline Burst, this advantage is kind of moot. I can't think of many battles in ME1 that can't be finished after using 2 of all of these powerful abilities with just 1 use of Adrenaline Burst.

[egervari]

termokanden wrote...
Anyway I'd say the most powerful classes are Soldier, Vanguard and Infiltrator. Hard to decide which one is more powerful. They are all more or less unkillable if you upgrade their defensive ability. Where Vanguards get some extra casting power, Soldiers and Infiltrators get large damage bonuses.

Yes, a Solider is also very powerful. I'd say he's a lot better than an Infiltrator. An Infiltrator is just bad version of a Soldier (Shock Trooper is crazy good). I have played both Infiltrator and Soldier in ME1 and I'd have to say the Soldier was way more powerful. Sniper Rifles are just crap for the most part. It's probably the worst weapon type. They are also pretty useless weapons until you get enough money to buy Master class ones too, because the regular ones have terrible accuracy.

All of the advantages that you can get with an Infiltrator, you can get with a Soldier basically - and more :/

Give a Solider Lift and you pretty much got it made.

[egervari]

PrinceLionheart wrote...
I love ME1 Vanguard. could do everything the Adept could save for the Stasis!Damage. But then again, Biotics were pretty broken in the first game.

Yeah, I never found much use for Stasis in the first game. Sure, it was an okay ability... but it mostly got in the way rather than helped. Lift, Throw and Singularity are just so much more powerful I think for Crowd Control. Why Stasis just 1 target when you can basically take out 2-4 targets?

So yeah, Vanguard seems to be insanely strong to me... which is why I made the post just wondering if my logic is correct.

[termokanden]

egervari wrote...

termokanden wrote...
Anyway I'd say the most powerful classes are Soldier, Vanguard and Infiltrator. Hard to decide which one is more powerful. They are all more or less unkillable if you upgrade their defensive ability. Where Vanguards get some extra casting power, Soldiers and Infiltrators get large damage bonuses.

Yes, a Solider is also very powerful. I'd say he's a lot better than an Infiltrator. An Infiltrator is just bad version of a Soldier (Shock Trooper is crazy good). I have played both Infiltrator and Soldier in ME1 and I'd have to say the Soldier was way more powerful.

 
The difference is not that big if you're grabbing Commando. But yeah if you want the ultimate in survivability, you should pick a soldier.

Sniper Rifles are just crap for the most part. It's probably the worst weapon type. They are also pretty useless weapons until you get enough money to buy Master class ones too, because the regular ones have terrible accuracy.

After a certain point they can be quite good. And by the way, Spectre sniper rifle + High Explosive X + 2 x Rail Extension VII = flaming enemy flying through the air and a satisfying beeping noise telling you that yes, that's gotta hurt.

[egervari]

Yeah, Sniper Rifles are okay once you got the money to get a master class one, like I said. But it takes awhile to get the 350,000 credits to afford one, and a new player will have to get 1,000,000 credits first.

Even further, you have to wait for those upgrades to even become available. I think it's safe to say you won't even get the Sniper action started until level 20-25, and even then it's not going to be as useful, applicable or efficient as a Pistol would be.

I found the versatility between the Pistol, Assault Rifle and Shotgun to be much better. Shotguns are especially good as a second weapon. They have long range, unlike ME2. They also produce a natural knockback effect, which is useful against Husk-like creatures. It's like having an infinite throw ability sort of. You can just alternate between targets and they can't hurt you at all. Even Carnage can act like a long-range bomb. And don't forget, with Adrenaline Burst, you can use Marksman or Carnage 2x.

To me, all of these advantages are better than the Infiltrator's use of Sniper Rifles.

There's one section in the game where you'd think the Infiltrator would be awesome at. It's that side-quest where you disarm the bomb, and once you go outside, you are on the high ground looking down at 10 or so enemies.

It turns out that rushing with a Shock Trooper soldier is just easier and more efficient than using the Infiltrator with the Sniper Rifle in this situation. You'd think this situation would be a dream spot for the Infiltrator, but it turns out that it's kind of lame and not to his advantage. The solider even deals with this better.

To me, if that's not evidence enough that the Infiltrator is sub-par, I don't know what could convince anyone.

Modifié par egervari, 01 avril 2011 - 10:25 .

[termokanden]

egervari wrote...

To me, if that's not evidence enough that the Infiltrator is sub-par, I don't know what could convince anyone.

I sort of agree with you. I just hesitate to call infiltrators subpar. Really any class with Immunity is overpowered, and on top of that Infiltrators can deal a lot of damage and still have tech skills. That makes it a great class.

Soldiers are, as in ME2, quite no-nonsense and just blatantly and absurdly overpowered.

Ultimately it does not matter that much which of them is theoretically best. Because all the classes (maybe to a lesser degree Sentinels and Engineers though) can pretty much dominate all enemies on any difficulty. Balance and challenge isn't exactly the strongest points of ME1. As much as I like the game I have to say this.

[egervari]

Yeah, Engineers are horrible. Damping seems to be their big special ability that others don't get, I never found it that useful. Sure, it's good to stop other biotics from using throw, which is probably the worst thing an enemy can do... but stasis, lift, singularity, etc. also disable this.

Engineers also have no armor or weapon options... and what they get in return is truly sub-par. Maybe that was the wrong choice of word for infiltrator (commando and immunity is quite strong), but in the engineer's case, it is really weak. All of the biotic abilities are just so much better than the tech abilities.

I wish the game had better balance, even if it doesn't matter in many cases. Balance is important I think. Nobody should be gimped or have a harder game because they picked one class over another. Picking a class shouldn't be a buffing/debuffing of Shepard - all of them should equally powerful, or pretty close in power anyway.

At this point, I think Solider and Vanguard are the 2 best classes. Solider is the best among the Immunity/Weapon-based classes and Vanguard is the best out of the Barrier/Biotic-based classes. Engineering skills seem best relegated to squadmates, and even then, they aren't truly 'needed' except for unlocking stuff :/ A shame.

[termokanden]

This was one of the things I particularly enjoyed in ME2. In ME1 engineering is definitely inferior to biotics. In ME2 engineers and sentinels are vastly better, and some tech skills are among the best in the game (Tech Armor, Drone). Tech skills no longer suck, basically.

Modifié par termokanden, 01 avril 2011 - 11:55 .

[egervari]

Yeah, Overload in ME2 is very strong and useful. My first class in ME2 was an Engineer actually and I loved the combat drone.

I never played a Sentinel in ME2. It just seemed like a mix with some armor. Was the armor really interesting/good? Was it fun?

[Sashimi_taco]

I loved vanguard in ME1, which is why i was so disappointed when i played me2. Yeah you get to charge and stuff, but that really was not fun for me and to be honest it is quite weak. Also i'm just bad at it.

[The Grey Ranger]

egervari wrote...

Yeah, Engineers are horrible. Damping seems to be their big special ability that others don't get, I never found it that useful. Sure, it's good to stop other biotics from using throw, which is probably the worst thing an enemy can do... but stasis, lift, singularity, etc. also disable this.

Actually their special that nobody else gets is hacking.  This darn useful in certain situations.  It can make a couple of the Therum fights that people have trouble with almost trivial and the moon mission can also be much easier as well.

I'll admit that damping's ability to shut down biotics and tech powers isn't the most useful ability in the game.  It does however carry a stun effect and increase the aoe of overload and sabotage as well (by nearly a 1/3)  It can also be used to great effect in btds, since you keep running into baterian engineers. 

egervari wrote...

Engineers also have no armor or weapon options... and what they get in return is truly sub-par. Maybe that was the wrong choice of word for infiltrator (commando and immunity is quite strong), but in the engineer's case, it is really weak. All of the biotic abilities are just so much better than the tech abilities.

They have the most damaging weapon choice in the game (master markman pistol) and the same armor as adept and sentinel.

The difference between colossus x light and colossus x medium is 6 dr and only 30 shields, not really all that much.

Not saying engineer is really the best, but don't sell it short.  You can always grab barrier as a bonus to cover their squishiness to an extent.  It's more than capable of completing a level 1 insanity run.

Modifié par The Grey Ranger, 03 avril 2011 - 04:09 .

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

Infilitrator with a bonus Hacking power is insanely powerful, due to both the power and the increased cooldowns you get with it.  Geth missions are trivial.

[The Grey Ranger]

Yeah, hacking is about the best bonus for an infiltrator. That way they have pretty much everything an engineer has, plus medium armor, a sniper rifle and immunity.

[mcsupersport]

It really depends on your playstyle but all classes are really strong if played correctly.

At higher difficulty levels, Soldier is actually one of the worst or weaker to have. He can only damage but enemies will spam Immunity, and that greatly reduces his effectiveness. He doesn't have anything to increase the effectiveness of added biotics or tech, ie onmi tools or amps, and while he is unkillable so are most of the enemies he is facing forcing him to slog, slog, slog along.

Infiltrator with AI hacking and a decent person with sniper rifles can thin the herd at a distance, still has the best weapon in the game(pistols), and can stop the enemies from shooting back at him and increase the damage they take.

Engineer far from being weak, allows you to take either sniper or shotgun(playstyle choice) disable huge areas of enemies so you can casually stroll into the room and blast enemies without them being able to fire a shot, and increase the damage all of them take.

Adept is great because you can take sniper rifles to thin the herd, your cool downs are quick with the right armor add-ons and amp, you can lock down one major enemy with stasis and then disable most others with lift and singularity. All the while you have permabarrier for the odd guy you missed.

The only class I can't really say I had fun with was Sentinel and that is because they had too many skills to really get the most of any and pistols wasn't really a skill(sort of was but more a half skill), but I think that was more about me and my playstyle than the class.

As far as saying teammates help a soldier more, I say bunk, use an Engineer with Liara and Wrex and you have major heavy hitting, all the tech you want, and biotics out the yang. Now for an unkillable squad take an Infiltrator with Ashley and Wrex, triple immunity, tech and biotics for the harder enemies. An Adept can roll with either Tali and Ashley for a "pure" squad balance, or pack along Kaiden and Wrex for all the biotic you can handle and for biotic mayhem take dycryption and have Liara with electronics and Wrex making everything fly with three biotics.

[The Grey Ranger]

Sentinel is actually very solid. Throw on assault rifle or shotgun for a bonus(this lets you avoid the power wheel issue). You'll have a crowd control for every situation and complete freedom in your party makeup.

The basic answer is there isn't really a best or worst class. It all comes down to play style and personal preference.

[Jarlaxlecq]

Adepts are pretty powerful in terms of CCing groups of enemies but honestly there is nothing really a adept can do that a vanguard with singularity cant do better. I'd say they are honestly my favorate way to play but it always bugs me that in every cut scene they hammer in that Shepard is a Marine not a Biotic, the "story" just makes more sense with a soldier.

Infiltrator is kind of crappy but i made one for one playthrough because honestly i was at the point where i just really preferred brining along Liara and Wrex so i needed someone to open boxes, might as well be me. It worked out when Infiltrators were much much better in ME2.

In the end i just go with the soldier, you get to the point where your essentially immortal/unkillable. I just take Liara and (once i discovered he wasn't awful) keiden along.

[Youknow]

At lower levels, it's one of the better classes in the game, and can maintain its shields far longer than any class besides adept at higher levels because of Barrier Specialization and Shield Boost. And it has better hardening than the Adept thanks to heavier armor. And unlike Adept, it can get much stronger weaponry as well. A Vanguard with Singularity has access to it faster than an Adept, and with Adrenaline Burst can actually cast its spells faster than an Adept for most of the game (for most of the lower levels, as your recharge time for your biotics IS AB).

However, at higher levels, the Adept is far better with its overall lower cooling times, and the advantage a Vanguard has (melee and gun damage) is not much, as an Adept at higher levels can keep an entire room pinned down by themselves.

Overall, I'd say the classes are like this.

Below 30: Soldier, Vanguard, Infiltrator, Sentinel, Adept, Engineer
Above 30: Adept, Soldier, Vanguard, Infiltrator, Sentinel, Engineer

Soldier is pretty much invincible, and the Vanguard is like a tankier version that does more damage. Infiltrator can Snipe people like mad at this level, but still doesn't have the invincibility of the soldier (though it's still plenty good for durability), though it can potentially do more damage.

[The Grey Ranger]

Youknow wrote...

At lower levels, it's one of the better classes in the game, and can maintain its shields far longer than any class besides adept at higher levels because of Barrier Specialization and Shield Boost. And it has better hardening than the Adept thanks to heavier armor. And unlike Adept, it can get much stronger weaponry as well. A Vanguard with Singularity has access to it faster than an Adept, and with Adrenaline Burst can actually cast its spells faster than an Adept for most of the game (for most of the lower levels, as your recharge time for your biotics IS AB).

However, at higher levels, the Adept is far better with its overall lower cooling times, and the advantage a Vanguard has (melee and gun damage) is not much, as an Adept at higher levels can keep an entire room pinned down by themselves.
 

The overall difference in recharge times on biotic powers between a bastion adept and any sort of vanguard is really pretty minimal.  IIRC a bastion adept with top end gear (2 medical exo x's and a savant x amp) is looking at around 13 seconds for their biotics to recharge at master level.  I think the vanguard is around 15 or 16, but you then throw in adrenaline burst.  So vanguards get their first recycle faster and have more flexability in their sequencing.  As far as weapons, a vanguard will do more damage due to their class bonuses, but everybody but sentinel gets the most damaging weapon in the game,  master marksman pistol.  

As I remarked earlier in the thread the difference between the colossus x light and colossus x medium is fairly small(6% dr and 30 points of shield with light armor having better physics resist at 38 vs 28 for medium).  The thing you run into with a vanguard is you have to decide on your priorities, since you'll be kinda short on points.  With an adept, not so much.  With adept you're all about your biotics.

What the whole thing comes down to for me is that there isn't really a best class.  It all depends on your preferred playstyle.

The biotic classes and engineer all live or die by crowd control.  If the enemy is locked down he's just a target.  With the immunity using classes, you can swap melee hits with a thresher maw for a while and walk away.

Really the only way soldier or infiltrator with good armor will die is to get stun locked, so that they can't reactivate immunity.

Modifié par The Grey Ranger, 04 avril 2011 - 01:38 .