531 ответов в этой теме

[Zan Mura]

 Haha, the OP certainly has a way with words.

[Cstriker01]

Okay, so I just beat the game with my mage on hard...loved it. Now i'm ready for nightmare but I am torn between a 2-hand reaver warrior, a Rogue Archer, and of course a DW rogue...BUUUT then I read your post and watched videos and said "holy ape **** crazy Batman!" So now I want to run a rogue...but alas, I am still torn on a couple things. Either running archery or DW. I do enjoy more utility in my builds so I am not just a straight dps monster "semper I" ****. So a few questions:

First. Archery assassin build, worth going? I'm worried it will be boring or too much like the mage I just finished the game with. If it isn't would someone please throw up a good link to a build please?

Second. Having said that what utility abilities are actually worth getting? I like the sound of the obscures and the miasmic flask stuff. How about deeper into the stealth tree? Are any of these things worth getting? Does anyone have some good nightmare experiance with them?

Last, speed over precision is worth it? I figured that extra +crit chance would be worth it.

Thanks for any help! Looking forward to jumping around the battlefield and raping things with no abandon!

[A Forgotten Tome]

Cstriker01 wrote...

Okay, so I just beat the game with my mage on hard...loved it. Now i'm ready for nightmare but I am torn between a 2-hand reaver warrior, a Rogue Archer, and of course a DW rogue...BUUUT then I read your post and watched videos and said "holy ape **** crazy Batman!" So now I want to run a rogue...but alas, I am still torn on a couple things. Either running archery or DW. I do enjoy more utility in my builds so I am not just a straight dps monster "semper I" ****. So a few questions:

First. Archery assassin build, worth going? I'm worried it will be boring or too much like the mage I just finished the game with. If it isn't would someone please throw up a good link to a build please?

Second. Having said that what utility abilities are actually worth getting? I like the sound of the obscures and the miasmic flask stuff. How about deeper into the stealth tree? Are any of these things worth getting? Does anyone have some good nightmare experiance with them?

Last, speed over precision is worth it? I figured that extra +crit chance would be worth it.

Thanks for any help! Looking forward to jumping around the battlefield and raping things with no abandon!

Because you get 1% crit with every point of Dex, by the end of the game you will have upwards of (close to anyways) 85% crit, the speed bonus is considerably more substantial. At least that has been my thoughts as I started my playthrough. The videos don't exaggerate, those numbers were commonplace. I haven't used pinpoint strikes (100% crit for X seconds) in a very long time because of the whole 1 dexterity = 1% crit deal.

Сообщение изменено: A Forgotten Tome, 02 Апрель 2011 - 02:54 .

[Cstriker01]

Lacerate worth running as well? Sounds cool and I like things that are cool ipso facto lacerate may be cool...

[AreleX]

A new video of me taking on various lesser Assassins and showing them who's boss. Clips from the Undercut Thrifter base, the Invisible Sisters base, and the Brekker fight during Inside Job. This is probably my favorite video, so check it out!

The Ultimate Assassin

Enjoy!

Cstriker01 wrote...

Lacerate worth running as well? Sounds cool and I like things that are cool ipso facto lacerate may be cool...

I don't think it's worth it. Why make something bleed when you can make it dead?

Сообщение изменено: AreleX, 02 Апрель 2011 - 04:46 .

[Cstriker01]

Sweet vid. Anyone run obscure abilities (chameleons breath i think?) or fatigue fog from sabotage with success on nightmare?

[A Forgotten Tome]

Cstriker01 wrote...

Lacerate worth running as well? Sounds cool and I like things that are cool ipso facto lacerate may be cool...

Lacerate is terrible and should be avoided (its a chance on a chance, and I doubt you'll be able to stagger something that much.) I cannot answer you on Fatigueing Fog or Chamelons Breath however.

I would also recommend not putting points into backstabs upgrades, they aren't really worth it once you get to around 12-15.

[Cstriker01]

Roger dodger, wasn't planning on uping the backstab and I guess I'll stay away from lacerate, thanks! Speed it shall be for my sustained. With lots of assassin love...and pie.

[Irish Porkchopp]

I give Isabella Fog. She disorients crowds around Aveline who then Scatters them to death. Quite fun to see. Almost as fun as when Merrill zaps a bunch of staggered peeps. Almost.

[Cstriker01]

I don't plan on using Isabella. Team make up will probably be Aveline, Anders (GROAN, what a little b**ch) and either Merill or Varric. So if fog is descent I may play around with that OR obscure from the stealth tree, not both as to more maximize assassin and the rest.

[Amioran]

Altima Darkspells wrote...
The Shadow's superior defense is not being targetted at all.  Stealth instantly clears threat.  Inconspicuous instantly clears threat AND keeps rogues from generating anymore.  Shadows can also gain conceal easily, which is a flat dodge rate, not the scaled defense rate which, in the end, barely means squat.

Sincerely I never had a problem with threat with just Subtlety and, when absolutely needed, Evade (that I used, late game, 1 time only, and in fact with my latest build I avoided the two altogheter and didn't either see a difference, apart at beginning). I don't see how Inconspicous or Decoy cannot be considered just a waste of points, given also the fact that you kill things so fast that also having threat is a not-issue (primarily because if you have it it is against at most two enemies that you dispatch easily).

This naturally for a DW build, for archery is another story, actually totally the contrary, in fact.

Altima Darkspells wrote...
Not really.  With lingering shroud, yes, you're out of concealment, but with other obscure effects--like lingering fog, bursting arrow, and chameleon's breath--the concealment lasts a set amount of time, meaning you'll be doing significant damage for ten to fifteen seconds.

Sure, on paper, but either you gimp your build trying to get more than one of those abilities, or you take Varric instead of Merril to help you on that. If you only have Chameleon's breath (that it is a waste of points, again, given the rest) the duration is only 15 seconds (with the upgrade that requires either another point) at most and used how much, given the cooldown? Once in a fight? It doesn't make that much of a difference.

More, the fights where it can really make a difference usually have place on a large part of the battlefield and so you can use obscure there and need just a second after to go all in another place.

Altima Darkspells wrote...
Perhaps, but that 50% adds up very quickly, and Taunt does have quite a long cooldown.  Plus there are instances where Shadows can use threat to her advantage, such as balling up enemies with decoy.

The +50% can adds up, surely, in THEORY. Problem is, that in practice, it doesn't really make that much of a difference just for the motives above, i.e. or you gimp the build trying to find a way to capitalize on it doesn't make that much of a difference.

As for threat, as I said, I never had once a problem with that, and I don't know how it is possible to have problems with it with a good tank for a DW build.

Altima Darkspells wrote...
My Shadow/Assassin has no problems hitting enemies with a 1 dex:2 cunning stat distribution, and she has well over 200% critical damage.  Her hit rate is about 93%.  Considering that most of her auto-attacks are against the trash mobs (as anything that's more significant gets dead real quick), that's really not an issue.

Maybe your Shadow doesn't have problems hitting normal enemies with Valiant Aura on Anders on, but how it is against bosses and Lieutenants? The +20% (+40% with Parry) does a lot of difference with them and auto-attacking stacks a lot of difference.

As for critical damage, my build had 218% before the High Dragon, I don't see how +25% more would make that much of a difference anyway. Maybe +50% more would, but we return to the problem of before.

Altima Darkspells wrote...
Well, the good thing about an Assassin/Shadow is that you don't have to put any point at all into either the archery or DW tree, which is great if you don't wish to be married to a weapon (or want to not get in melee range, or if you can't like with the High Dragon).

I usually do the same either with Duelist (not putting points in DW, or better, putting them at beginning and respeccing at level 14 when chosing the spec). I put them only later in game when I finish what I really want (on the last run I didn't either take Evade so was able to take all of them by level 20). A build is made of priorities and I think going for Vendetta asap is more important than having Twin Fangs immediately.

Altima Darkspells wrote...
In my next playthrough, I think I'll fiddle around with the Duelist a little more.  Though I guess I could go to an earlier save and respect my Shadow...

I tried both. I think Shadow much better for solo play or archer, however I think that Duelist is better for DW. Firstly because you "waste" less points, secondly because the points you "waste" on Shadow are not really that needed for a strong DW build (so the "waste"), and thirdly because threat is not an issue for a DW build (and either if it is you kill things so fast that's not either evident).  Archery is all another thing, instead, all that can be "wasted" for DW can be the best thing you can have, an example it is the just before mentioned threat, that makes a lot of difference there, instead.

Also the concealment and critical dmg on archery does much more of a difference, given the high power and slow fire of bows. It is a diffferent way to do damage, relying more on spikes than constant damage, so DW and archery have different priorities.

Сообщение изменено: Amioran, 02 Апрель 2011 - 06:05 .

[RubiconI7]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

Atmosfear3 wrote...

Vendetta is nice and all but I still think Shadow is superior in terms of doing damage. Not sure how it would fair on NM though.

Shadow is awesome on Nightmare for playing solo.

Assassin is required for EVERY Rogue.
If you want the ability to survive solo then pick Shadow (for Decoy).
If you prefer maximum damage with a party then pick Dualist (for Vendetta).

Another great build Arelex

Shadow has more self-preservation skills and pretty good passives that can set up CCCs. To me, that is a better trade off for just one skill in the duelist tree...But the choice between the two are, I think, still in the play-style differences. 

Playing Duelist compliments the way the post is written in a no-pause, non-stop action game with the party being tactic-controlled and serves to only compliment the player.

[A Forgotten Tome]

RubiconI7 wrote...

Another great build Arelex

Shadow has more self-preservation skills and pretty good passives that can set up CCCs. To me, that is a better trade off for just one skill in the duelist tree...But the choice between the two are, I think, still in the play-style differences. 

Playing Duelist compliments the way the post is written in a no-pause, non-stop action game with the party being tactic-controlled and serves to only compliment the player.

I toyed with Shadow for a good number of levels through a large portion of the second act but found I was dropping mobs much faster as a Duelist secondary to Assassin with little risk to my own health thanks to stealth. I should mention that I tend to be very inclined to set up tactics and then let my compansions do their thing, save when they try to get themselves killed (Anders I'm looking at you!).

I have not used any disorient based CCC simply because I finnd them to annoying to set up. I also found Throw the Gauntlet to be very helpful on protecting Anders as well (let's face it Aveline won't always catch everything, although she has so far, since the start of Act 2 anyways, basically done everything I've wanted her to do without me having to control her.) 

AreleX didn't stress how good Vendetta is IMO; teleporting across a room into a Saarebas to one shot him, Twin Fangs an archer near him, and slaught your way into the center never ever gets old.

Сообщение изменено: A Forgotten Tome, 02 Апрель 2011 - 07:49 .

[Irish Porkchopp]

Cstriker01 wrote...

I don't plan on using Isabella. Team make up will probably be Aveline, Anders (GROAN, what a little b**ch) and either Merill or Varric. So if fog is descent I may play around with that OR obscure from the stealth tree, not both as to more maximize assassin and the rest.

If you're just interested in the obscure effect then Chameleons Breath might be a better option. 

[Zan Mura]

A Forgotten Tome wrote...

AreleX didn't stress how good Vendetta is IMO; teleporting across a room into a Saarebas to one shot him, Twin Fangs an archer near him, and slaught your way into the center never ever gets old.

I couldn't agree more with this. Vendetta gives your rogue not only extreme mobility and speed when it comes to reacting on anything in the battlefield, but as AreleX said having it is like having two different versions of Assassinate available. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that where 1-shotting those rogues / elites / lieutenants is concerned, it almost doubles your power. Especially when backed up with a STAGGER before attacking which I must remind you is practically 100% reliable compared to BRITTLE.

In my Nightmare rogue run 2 weeks back, I did respec to shadow a few times, but aside from a few passives it just felt way too situational. Also, back then I personally didn't run a high dex & high critrate build. Sure by virtue of needing dex for weapons alone I had my crit up in the 60% range, but the build was more based on extreme burst + GTFO anyway, in which case Pinpoint Strikes was highly useful leaving a lot of extra points for cun & wil to deliver that insane crit damage in a single burst without need to regen stamina. I had something over +270% crit dmg near the end, IIRC.

Basically, in trash mob fights the whole crit issue doesn't matter since all the big abilities are autocrit or too powerful even as normal hits anyway. But against harder targets, I'd just have Aveline run in to STAGGER the target while my rogue was hanging back safely and pre-emptively activated Pinpoint. Then Vendetta, attempt to BRITTLE, Assassinate, gather up combos while the boss was paralysed, then STAGGER again + Explosive Strikes, then get out from those boss AoE's. In that pattern even without upgrades the Pinpoint would last more than long enough. And it would not only serve as autocrit for the Vendetta, but also keep giving crits during the auto-attack while gathering combos, which would be reflected as extreme damage when firing off Explosive Strikes too.

Looking back on the few vids I made back then though, I was clueless to a lot of things I've since learned about the game, so I'm pretty sure I'd make quite a few build options and gameplay decisions differently this time. That's to say, do approach what I said there with a healthy dose of doubt. Still, it did work damned well back then. Even if there are improvements I will make on my next rogue run.

[AreleX]

I thought  I made my undying love for Vendetta pretty clear, but if not:

I LOVE THIS SKILL AND WOULD GLADLY WASTE A MILLION POINTS TO GET IT.

Seriously, watch the Ultimate Assassin video.

Oh, hey, Brekker. What's up, bro? Man, has anyone told you that you sound just like Anders? What? Backstab right out of spawn? No no no, Vendetta into Twin Fangs, SIT THE **** DOWN.

I love Vendetta so, so much.

[Ruben Thomas]

AreleX wrote...

I thought  I made my undying love for Vendetta pretty clear, but if not:

I LOVE THIS SKILL AND WOULD GLADLY WASTE A MILLION POINTS TO GET IT.

Seriously, watch the Ultimate Assassin video.

Oh, hey, Brekker. What's up, bro? Man, has anyone told you that you sound just like Anders? What? Backstab right out of spawn? No no no, Vendetta into Twin Fangs, SIT THE **** DOWN.

I love Vendetta so, so much.

Hi AreleX, I've watched both your warrior and rogue videos on youtube tons of times, they're really entertaining. You're very skilled

As anyone who's watched your videos know you can tear down the house with your warrior and rogue, and you've certainly inspired me into considering playthroughs with those classes.

I'm wondering though, as my favourite class is mage, do you think similar play is possible as a mage? Obviously mages are ranged and don't make for as exiting videos, but I'm curious what are your favourite abilities on your companion mages? What do you think is the powerplay version for that class?

Rogues have assassinate and vendetta, Warriors have massacre and cleave (okay that was kind of weak, I know jack **** about warriors), what do you think is the mage equivalent *push this to win* button?

I'm not trying to start a class balance debate, discussion class balance is pointless in a singleplayer experience anyway, I just have a vested interest in your viewpoint on mage abilities considering that's what I play as and you're obviously knowledgeable about combat.

Okay enough asskissing

[Liliandra Nadiar]

I don't think mages have any one thing to wipe out a target with. But they can do ugly things to full groups. Chain Lightning on multiple staggered enemies is evil. Force Mage lets you keep a group in an area and then rain Lightning/Fire/Bombs on them and watch the crowd go giblet.

[Zan Mura]

Agreed with above. I'm on my third Nightmare mage run now and the basics are ever the same. If you want damage, get Force specialization. Just get the enemies bunched together and profit. After that you can get creative in a number of ways. Pull of the Abyss + any AoE CCC works miracles. Gravitic Ring smack in the middle helps even more since all enemies including bosses are effectively frozen in time for 20 seconds.

Once you have them grouped you can use Winter's Grasp for an almost guaranteed BRITTLE, or start bombarding with Fire Storm, Walking Bomb, and bring in other classes and their CCC's any way you want. In my opinion this is the best damage build for a mage. Also, blood magic at lvl 14 + blood magic items helps heaps with mana and survivability issues.

Plenty of guides around for that stuff really.

[Inzhuna]

This was incredibly entertaining and helpful! Thanks for sharing! How do you distribute the attributes?

[AreleX]

New video, the name says it all.

DW Assassin - One-Minute Varterral Kill

Did I mention that we wreck bosses in this thread? Because we wreck bosses in this thread.

I've also added a Hawke Level-Up guide, and, by request, a section on Attribute Allocation to the OP. Check them out!

Ruben Thomas wrote...

Hi AreleX, I've watched both your warrior and rogue videos on youtube tons of times, they're really entertaining. You're very skilled [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sideways.png[/smilie]

As anyone who's watched your videos know you can tear down the house with your warrior and rogue, and you've certainly inspired me into considering playthroughs with those classes.

I'm wondering though, as my favourite class is mage, do you think similar play is possible as a mage? Obviously mages are ranged and don't make for as exiting videos, but I'm curious what are your favourite abilities on your companion mages? What do you think is the powerplay version for that class? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Rogues have assassinate and vendetta, Warriors have massacre and cleave (okay that was kind of weak, I know jack **** about warriors), what do you think is the mage equivalent *push this to win* button?

I'm not trying to start a class balance debate, discussion class balance is pointless in a singleplayer experience anyway, I just have a vested interest in your viewpoint on mage abilities considering that's what I play as and you're obviously knowledgeable about combat.

Okay enough asskissing [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

Hello, sir! I don't know enough about actually PLAYING mages to give you a definite answer, but I can tell you with 100% certianty that the mages in my party using CCCs (Crushing Prison, Chain Lightning) get as many kills as I do, if not more. I'll call up Graunt and have him come in this thread to be mean/provide accurate information (you know I love you, Graunt). Check the Tactics section of my guide threads to see what I've got my mages doing, and when.

And paying respect to the greatest player ever (and the most modest) isn't ass-kissing at all, my friend!

Сообщение изменено: AreleX, 03 Апрель 2011 - 03:57 .

[Inzhuna]

AreleX wrote...

I've also added a Hawke Level-Up guide, and, by request, a section on Attribute Allocation to the OP. Check them out!

Thanks a lot, you rock

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Out of curiosity, do you count the Dex with or without the Rune of Vailance's +7 to attributes or other +attribute items?

[AreleX]

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...

Out of curiosity, do you count the Dex with or without the Rune of Vailance's +7 to attributes or other +attribute items?

Without. I'm not sure if you can equip attribute boosting gear to meet weapon/armor requirements like you could in Origins, I've never tested it.

[godlike13]

So first i did a Mage, loved it. Then i tried a DW Berserker/Vanguard, had a blast with that. Now im trying a Bow, and to be honest didn't think i was going to be enjoying as much as i am. The Assassin tree is pretty sick.