174 réponses à ce sujet

[Fruit of the Doom]

AlexXIV wrote...

If you play on lower difficulty it is stronger.

If you play on lower difficulty everything is stronger.

[Crocodiles]

Sadly even with fire buffs the odd enemy resistances and immunities nerf it, why can't I set a mabari on fire, really!?

[Fruit of the Doom]

I hope they adjust the damage modifier for it.

Or actually base the spell damage on MAGIC rather than your staff's base DPS.

[Chromie]

Mod on nexus where the Fireball spell is equal to one fireball from the Firestorm spell.

[Fruit of the Doom]

I have the PS3 version.. ;_;

(I got the PC version of DAO, but the gameplay changes to DA2 made the console version more attractive to me.)

[Toastedsnow]

Eh, if you want big numbers and baddies falling over very quickly and prostrating themselves beneath idols your mighty todger every morning as you tower over them, standing upon the turgid pedestal of power and might whilst drinking dry martinis flavored with the blood of your enemies, being the stalwart hero of the world, the paragon of manliness who curb stomps Batman and listens to I'm Too Sexy (by Right Said Fred) and...sorry, forgot where I was going with that.

If you want a nice clean playthrough with as less hitches as possible then feel free to ignore fire and go for more useful things - I'd personally recommend spells like Imp Horror, Walking Bomb, Hemo, and Crushing Prison. Fire is sort of wonky simply because a lot of the baddies are inherently resistant to it - some of them completely, depending on the difficulty level.
If you want a playthrough of personal entertainment, then load up on the spells that make your balls feel big. Tempest, Firestorm, and Chain Lightning come to mind. It may just be me but zapping dudes with chain lightning or sending them stumbling back, screaming, as a firestorm crashes down never loses its charm. And if Varric is along, which he should be, because every line from him is solid gold, it's always entertaining to see him enact complete overkill upon one of those minor baddies by blasting imp Rhyming Triplet at them. Or lining up 3/4 and putting a lance through them.

[Jack-Nader]

I think everyone seems to be forgetting about all the sheer number of items that increase your fire damage percentage. They are common as muck in this game. You gain +50% fire damage from the spell upgrades. Rings and belts frequently drop that are + 4% or 5% fire damage. There is a ring that yeilds +24% fire damage. Plenty of armour that increases fire damage and also there are plenty of staves with +14 - 16%. Taking all that into consideration and it is quite possible to have well over +100% fire damage.

What all this means is :=
Inferno becomes the single strongest AOE spell in your arsenal. It easily beats out Cone of cold in terms of damage output.
Your stave now gets a 100% or greater damage boost if it is fire based. This means that it will compete with staves whose elemental damage counters your target.

Worried about your party getting owned by fire? Chuck on fire restance runes and go to town. A good chunk of the game can be soloed by a Hawke mage recklessly casting fire spells this way. Seriously, what's not to like?

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 03 avril 2011 - 04:06 .

[Fruit of the Doom]

The topic is about Fireball, not "Inferno".  Coincidentally, there is no "Inferno" in this game.  It was replaced with Firestorm.

Firestorm is a great move, I agree.

But what does that have to do with the fact that Fireball does less damage than Firestorm does per second (once upgraded).  Each upgraded Firestorm "ball" does x1.7 damage.  Fireball does a pathetic x1.3 damage, ONCE!

[Ruben Thomas]

Just grab winter's grasp plus its upgrade and cone of cold and its upgrade then move on to another ability tree.

I do agree with you though, the fire spells need buffs, I think they might be intentionally weak because there's so much +% fire damage in the game, but having to wear a specific type of gear to make abilities effective is lame in my opinion.

"Sweet! Just got an AMAZING new staff from the incredibly difficult 17 minute long boss battle I just defeated. Oh... Nevermind I have to keep using my old ****ty staff because it has +60% fire damage and my new one doesn't. Great..."

[Jack-Nader]

The plus 100% damage from gear applies to fireball too. This gives it aproximately the same damage output as cone of cold. It is cheaper to cast, has less cooldown time and has a much greater area of effect. It also has X4 elemental force which is usefull.

[Jack-Nader]

"Sweet! Just got an AMAZING new staff from the incredibly difficult 17 minute long boss battle I just defeated. Oh... Nevermind I have to keep using my old ****ty staff because it has +60% fire damage and my new one doesn't. Great..."

LOL!!!

[Fruit of the Doom]

Jack-Nader wrote...

The plus 100% damage from gear applies to fireball too. This gives it aproximately the same damage output as cone of cold. It is cheaper to cast, has less cooldown time and has a much greater area of effect. It also has X4 elemental force which is usefull.

It also has X4 elemental force which is usefull.

Only against (most) humanoid enemies.  It has no effect on demons, spiders, etc.

Your argument is silly because it depends upon gimping yourself by focusing entirely upon fire bonus gear.  Duh, if you neglect everything else and devote yourself entirely to boosting Fireball, it can become moderately useful.  Of course you'll suck at everything else, and be helpless against fire resistant enemies (most enemies in the game).

[Fruit of the Doom]

Ruben Thomas wrote...

Just grab winter's grasp plus its upgrade and cone of cold and its upgrade then move on to another ability tree.

I do agree with you though, the fire spells need buffs, I think they might be intentionally weak because there's so much +% fire damage in the game, but having to wear a specific type of gear to make abilities effective is lame in my opinion.

"Sweet! Just got an AMAZING new staff from the incredibly difficult 17 minute long boss battle I just defeated. Oh... Nevermind I have to keep using my old ****ty staff because it has +60% fire damage and my new one doesn't. Great..."

As someone else said, it may be that they added all the random fire bonus gear (and talent) because the spells were so pathetic to begin with.

Ironically, the two best staffs in the game have no fire bonus.  (Cold Hearted and Final Thought)

[FaeQueenCory]

aries1001 wrote...

Mages in DA: Origins were way much overpowered, I think. Bioware probably wanted to tone down this aspect of the game, making sure that it really would pay off to have a well-balanced party in DA2. Magic is supposed to be really, really scarce in Thedas, and yet mages can make it rain from the heavens or create blizzards with their hands....not believable, not in Thedas. Maybe in D&D, but definetely not in Thedas.

While it's true they were extremely overpowered in comparison to their other class counterparts...... It makes sense given that in TheDAS being a mage basically makes you a mini god... and blood mages are supposed to be super powered mages, due to using blood to power spells apparently gives a super kick to whatever spell. (which makes sense even using our world's science: blood is made of matter and matter is just condensed energy, so of course more power is derived from matter rather than energy alone.)
And though mages were once scarce, by the time of the Dragon Age, more and more children are being born as mages. Also, the reason why mages are so feared in TheDAS is because of the fact that they can create blizzards and rain fire from the heavens at a whim. It's why the Tevinter Imperium lasted for so long.

Back on topic, I feel they neutered mages a bit too far. And I say this because all NPC mages have super powered variants or old DAO spells that the PC mages just can't do. (An Arcane Horror cast DAO death cloud on me once...) Now I know that DAO mages had a couple of NPC only spells... though I think it was only two... (fire bolt and frost bolt) but for the most part they used 100% what you could use. Which is something I enjoyed because it happens so rarely in video game RPGS, and it is probably the biggest thing that I miss from Origins. (Not the overpoweredness but the fact that enemy mages had the same resources I did... ei: no super powered enemy skills...)

[sonsonthebia07]

Fireball was like the doomsday button in Origins and it had such a low cooldown. Now it's...well, half-assed, but it's not thaaaat bad. It would be nice if it still had the lingering fire damage bonus.

[Taura-Tierno]

Balancing gameplay? I suppose they decided Fireball was overpowered in DA:O, and as such, decreased its damage.

[Fruit of the Doom]

I can understand that, but x1.3 staff damage even when most enemies in the game are resistant to fire?

[Roxlimn]

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

I can understand that, but x1.3 staff damage even when most enemies in the game are resistant to fire?

Not true.  Fire is the most resisted element in the game, but most enemies are NOT immune to fire.  Those statements are not the same.  Given the amount of +% fire damage you can get in the game, it is the most consistent damage output element outside of cross class combos.  None of the mage spells do any appreciable kind of damage on settings above Normal if you don't combo.

On Normal and Hard (and Casual, presumably), you can solo a lot of encounters just by using the Fire spells and some kind of area control to keep them in the damage area (like Gravitic Ring).  Firestorm is that strong.  Neither Winter's Blast nor CoC deal that kind of damage.  Without CCCs, neither do the lightning spells (since they don't have as many multipliers as fire spells).

In my estimation, Fireball is a little anemic on damage, but it's right at the cusp.  It's useful for sweeping Critters, and for some additional area damage now and again.  If it were significantly stronger and you'd want to activate it every time, all the time, and that's near the definition of OP.

[Fruit of the Doom]

Oh boy, by gimping yourself and forsaking all other stats and bonuses and focusing entirely on buffing your fire damage, Fireball can become mildly useful.

So overpowered...

[Fruit of the Doom]

Roxlimn wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

I can understand that, but x1.3 staff damage even when most enemies in the game are resistant to fire?

Not true.  Fire is the most resisted element in the game, but most enemies are NOT immune to fire.

Ummm, yeah that's what I said... "resistant"

Did I ever use the word immune?

[Roxlimn]

Enemies that are not immune to the element they resist are in Hard and Normal.  Most enemies in Hard and Normal are NOT resistant to fire.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 04 avril 2011 - 02:52 .

[Fruit of the Doom]

What does that have to do with anything?

If the only way to make it useful is turning down the difficulty level, I think I've made my point.

[Roxlimn]

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

What does that have to do with anything?

If the only way to make it useful is turning down the difficulty level, I think I've made my point.

You made a point of saying that you didn't say "immune."  Immune is how much enemies resist elements at Nightmare.  Most enemies are not immune to Fire.  If you refer to resistances that are not immunity, you are referring to lower difficulty settings, hence the subsequent information.

Clearer?

[ms_sunlight]

The main advantage of fireball in DA:O was not damage; it was the fact that it knocked many enemies off their feet, interrupting their attacks and spellcasting. It was useful to stop emissaries / mages who were displaying the little timer bar that showed they were gearing up something nasty. It was also a way to disrupt things if one of your melee characters was getting hopelessly mobbed. The damage was almost irrelevant, especially later in the game.

[Fruit of the Doom]

Roxlimn wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...

What does that have to do with anything?

If the only way to make it useful is turning down the difficulty level, I think I've made my point.

You made a point of saying that you didn't say "immune."  Immune is how much enemies resist elements at Nightmare.  Most enemies are not immune to Fire.  If you refer to resistances that are not immunity, you are referring to lower difficulty settings, hence the subsequent information.

Clearer?

No, I said "resistant" and I meant resistant.  On Nightmare, the "normal" resistance means they take half-damage.  That is what I meant by "resistant."