516 réponses à ce sujet

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

LTD wrote...
sovinism

/snicker

[LTD]

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

LTD wrote...
sovinism

/snicker

Not even knowing how to spell the word in English is surely a proof of my heart, ultimately, being a pure one:p

[randName]

QwibQwib wrote...

Too bad Witcher isn't Witch
<---- likes playing females character

Same, well in games like the Witcher or DA; prefer male in FO1,2 or BG 

Mostly due to dissonance, as in I prefer dissonance to the main character in, and I always feel too connected to the main character if male in 3rd person perspective games.

Same with the witcher, doesn't help that we both have white hair ~ (my hair is cut is short, and I'm hardly a buff guy, but still).

Gets me into some uncanny vally either way, and its annoying.

[QwibQwib]

LTD wrote...

QwibQwib wrote...

Too bad Witcher isn't Witch
<---- likes playing females character

Sim Kitchen is that way  - - - - >

All things DA 2 related need a healthy dose of sovinism to satisfy the balance of ying-yang.

I actually play the sims. The sims medieval
by the way...by bf handles the kitchen for me..kthx

[QwibQwib]

randName wrote...

QwibQwib wrote...

Too bad Witcher isn't Witch
<---- likes playing females character

Same, well in games like the Witcher or DA; prefer male in FO1,2 or BG 

Mostly due to dissonance, as in I prefer dissonance to the main character in, and I always feel too connected to the main character if male in 3rd person perspective games.

Same with the witcher, doesn't help that we both have white hair ~ (my hair is cut is short, and I'm hardly a buff guy, but still).

Gets me into some uncanny vally either way, and its annoying.

hehehe, I know! but..like you said, i just feel more connected to my character that way =[ my boyfriend and other friends tells me that im too picky and im missing good games due to the main male gender issue...

[Night Prowler76]

The Metalion wrote...

randName wrote...
Nice backpeddling; OR does a potenial of DA2 having sold 1 Million sold copies now equal "multiple million", or do you honestly believe the PC version to have sold over 1 Million copies alone?

I'm not backpeddling.  You're picking nits.  I believe, all told, the game WILL sell over 2 million copies.

Even if the game doesn't sell another copy ever, a million sold is hardly a fail.

Actually if a AAA title doesnt sell well over 1 million copies they will likely lose money on the project, so a million sold is a failure to the shareholders, get your facts straight.

[StuartMarshall]

Half price at Game UK already.

[fn_outlaw]

The Metalion wrote...

randName wrote...
Nice backpeddling; OR does a potenial of DA2 having sold 1 Million sold copies now equal "multiple million", or do you honestly believe the PC version to have sold over 1 Million copies alone?

I'm not backpeddling.  You're picking nits.  I believe, all told, the game WILL sell over 2 million copies.

Even if the game doesn't sell another copy ever, a million sold is hardly a fail.

Considering how much they have to pay the devs to make the game...I would have to disagree. 

Licensing for PC, PS3 and Xbox 360 is an astronomical cost.
You'd be surprised:  from what I've read, it's somewhere close to $30 per unit.  JUST FOR LICENSING(can provide links on request)
Add in the cost of packaging and shipping and they're making about enough to pay the devs.

Don't get me wrong, those devs probably bring home some decent cash, but companies don't thrive off of paying their employees.  They thrive off of profit. 

Especially considering development costs...which I won't get into....

[The Metalion]

Night Prowler76 wrote...
Actually if a AAA title doesnt sell well over 1 million copies they will likely lose money on the project, so a million sold is a failure to the shareholders, get your facts straight.

Facts?  What facts?  You have sources for your 'facts'?

[Boiny Bunny]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

The Metalion wrote...

randName wrote...
Nice backpeddling; OR does a potenial of DA2 having sold 1 Million sold copies now equal "multiple million", or do you honestly believe the PC version to have sold over 1 Million copies alone?

I'm not backpeddling.  You're picking nits.  I believe, all told, the game WILL sell over 2 million copies.

Even if the game doesn't sell another copy ever, a million sold is hardly a fail.

Actually if a AAA title doesnt sell well over 1 million copies they will likely lose money on the project, so a million sold is a failure to the shareholders, get your facts straight.

That is complete garbage.

Whether the game is 'AAA' or 'EEE' (or whatever the heck other ratings you want to use) makes absolutely no difference.

What matters is:

1) How much it cost to make (this includes marketing, production of discs, shipping, etc. as well as the direct costs)

2) How many copies it sells, over what period, and at what price.

3) Any other overheads (e.g. admin expenses for EA) that are attributable to the project.

Nothing else at all is relevant.

Once you take into account inflation and interest (plus a few other minor things which I won't go into detail about), profit is more or less 2 - 1 - 3.

Whether or not this game is 'AAA' has NOTHING to do with whether it needs to sell well.  All that matters in this respect is how LONG it took them to make it.

DA:O took 5 years to make - and as such, the costs of development were quite large.  They needed to sell a lot of copies to make a profit.  They did.

DA2 had a very short development period, so by comparison, it needs to sell FAR FEWER copies than DA:O to turn a profit.

[captain.subtle]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

The Metalion wrote...

randName wrote...
Nice backpeddling; OR does a potenial of DA2 having sold 1 Million sold copies now equal "multiple million", or do you honestly believe the PC version to have sold over 1 Million copies alone?

I'm not backpeddling.  You're picking nits.  I believe, all told, the game WILL sell over 2 million copies.

Even if the game doesn't sell another copy ever, a million sold is hardly a fail.

Actually if a AAA title doesnt sell well over 1 million copies they will likely lose money on the project, so a million sold is a failure to the shareholders, get your facts straight.

That is complete garbage.

Whether the game is 'AAA' or 'EEE' (or whatever the heck other ratings you want to use) makes absolutely no difference.

What matters is:

1) How much it cost to make (this includes marketing, production of discs, shipping, etc. as well as the direct costs)

2) How many copies it sells, over what period, and at what price.

3) Any other overheads (e.g. admin expenses for EA) that are attributable to the project.

Nothing else at all is relevant.

Once you take into account inflation and interest (plus a few other minor things which I won't go into detail about), profit is more or less 2 - 1 - 3.

Whether or not this game is 'AAA' has NOTHING to do with whether it needs to sell well.  All that matters in this respect is how LONG it took them to make it.

DA:O took 5 years to make - and as such, the costs of development were quite large.  They needed to sell a lot of copies to make a profit.  They did.

DA2 had a very short development period, so by comparison, it needs to sell FAR FEWER copies than DA:O to turn a profit.

That's complete garbage. Because Net profit is not how corporates measures success. They measure it by entirely different standards called projections. 

[orbit991]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

The Metalion wrote...

randName wrote...
Nice backpeddling; OR does a potenial of DA2 having sold 1 Million sold copies now equal "multiple million", or do you honestly believe the PC version to have sold over 1 Million copies alone?

I'm not backpeddling.  You're picking nits.  I believe, all told, the game WILL sell over 2 million copies.

Even if the game doesn't sell another copy ever, a million sold is hardly a fail.

Actually if a AAA title doesnt sell well over 1 million copies they will likely lose money on the project, so a million sold is a failure to the shareholders, get your facts straight.

That is complete garbage.

Whether the game is 'AAA' or 'EEE' (or whatever the heck other ratings you want to use) makes absolutely no difference.

What matters is:

1) How much it cost to make (this includes marketing, production of discs, shipping, etc. as well as the direct costs)

2) How many copies it sells, over what period, and at what price.

3) Any other overheads (e.g. admin expenses for EA) that are attributable to the project.

Nothing else at all is relevant.

Once you take into account inflation and interest (plus a few other minor things which I won't go into detail about), profit is more or less 2 - 1 - 3.

Whether or not this game is 'AAA' has NOTHING to do with whether it needs to sell well.  All that matters in this respect is how LONG it took them to make it.

DA:O took 5 years to make - and as such, the costs of development were quite large.  They needed to sell a lot of copies to make a profit.  They did.

DA2 had a very short development period, so by comparison, it needs to sell FAR FEWER copies than DA:O to turn a profit.

There are more variables involved in this. The first might have taken five years but it was made by a smaller team. I've read the second had additional bodies hired to finish the project. However we dont have the exact numbers or salary figures so it's all rather moot.
But if one is going to be realistic if your pro or against this game, the fact is, it is not selling anywhere near what their projections were and those were higher then the 3 million the original sold. True it still has time, price cuts might help a good deal over the next several months as well. But the trend seems to be on the downside, but then again so was DAO initially, but it had a really surprising rally. Will see if this one does the same, word of mouth is not that good though.

[silver-crescent]

Just to get clarify something regarding total sales so far.

According to VGChartz it's at 1.05mil
~580k X360
~260k PS3
~210k PC

But VGChartz doesn't consider digital distribuition sales platforms like Steam right? And digital distribuition sales tend to be higher than retail, so is it safe to assume actual total sales are more like at around at least 1.35mil or so?

[TheJiveDJ]

Lots of polarization in this topic I see.......I'm sure that DAII is matching up to expectations currently but I don't see it doing well in the long run.

[Corwyn]

I like how everybody pretends that they are important business executives who know what EA projected for this game, how much it cost to make and how many copies it should have sold. The fact is your talking out of rear and you know it. The people who liked the game think the numbers are good the people who didn't like it think the numbers prove them right.

It's pointless to keep arguing about it because one we don't know what EA was expecting in terms of numbers and two nobody is changing anybody else's mind. At this point both sides are just going not-uh back and forth.

[borscht25]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

The Metalion wrote...

randName wrote...
Nice backpeddling; OR does a potenial of DA2 having sold 1 Million sold copies now equal "multiple million", or do you honestly believe the PC version to have sold over 1 Million copies alone?

I'm not backpeddling.  You're picking nits.  I believe, all told, the game WILL sell over 2 million copies.

Even if the game doesn't sell another copy ever, a million sold is hardly a fail.

Actually if a AAA title doesnt sell well over 1 million copies they will likely lose money on the project, so a million sold is a failure to the shareholders, get your facts straight.

That is complete garbage.

Whether the game is 'AAA' or 'EEE' (or whatever the heck other ratings you want to use) makes absolutely no difference.

What matters is:

1) How much it cost to make (this includes marketing, production of discs, shipping, etc. as well as the direct costs)

2) How many copies it sells, over what period, and at what price.

3) Any other overheads (e.g. admin expenses for EA) that are attributable to the project.

Nothing else at all is relevant.

Once you take into account inflation and interest (plus a few other minor things which I won't go into detail about), profit is more or less 2 - 1 - 3.

Whether or not this game is 'AAA' has NOTHING to do with whether it needs to sell well.  All that matters in this respect is how LONG it took them to make it.

DA:O took 5 years to make - and as such, the costs of development were quite large.  They needed to sell a lot of copies to make a profit.  They did.

DA2 had a very short development period, so by comparison, it needs to sell FAR FEWER copies than DA:O to turn a profit.

I'm sorry to be rude but this post is beyond silly.

The term "AAA" title is shorthand for exactly the variables that you're nattering on about.  Amongst other things, it refers to having relatively high development costs, a large marketing budget, and graphics that aren't going to be given a mulligan if they are 10 years behind the times.

Go back to your sandbox and let the grownups talk.

[Night Prowler76]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

The Metalion wrote...

randName wrote...
Nice backpeddling; OR does a potenial of DA2 having sold 1 Million sold copies now equal "multiple million", or do you honestly believe the PC version to have sold over 1 Million copies alone?

I'm not backpeddling.  You're picking nits.  I believe, all told, the game WILL sell over 2 million copies.

Even if the game doesn't sell another copy ever, a million sold is hardly a fail.

Actually if a AAA title doesnt sell well over 1 million copies they will likely lose money on the project, so a million sold is a failure to the shareholders, get your facts straight.

That is complete garbage.

Whether the game is 'AAA' or 'EEE' (or whatever the heck other ratings you want to use) makes absolutely no difference.

What matters is:

1) How much it cost to make (this includes marketing, production of discs, shipping, etc. as well as the direct costs)

2) How many copies it sells, over what period, and at what price.

3) Any other overheads (e.g. admin expenses for EA) that are attributable to the project.

Nothing else at all is relevant.

Once you take into account inflation and interest (plus a few other minor things which I won't go into detail about), profit is more or less 2 - 1 - 3.

Whether or not this game is 'AAA' has NOTHING to do with whether it needs to sell well.  All that matters in this respect is how LONG it took them to make it.

DA:O took 5 years to make - and as such, the costs of development were quite large.  They needed to sell a lot of copies to make a profit.  They did.

DA2 had a very short development period, so by comparison, it needs to sell FAR FEWER copies than DA:O to turn a profit.

A triple A title is just a term used for a big name game with larger production costs, recent games like Crysis or Homefront would be classed the same way, others would include Skyrim, any COD etc.

DA2 had around a 2 year cycle, which is normal for alot of games, so for instance, say Bioware has 100 employee's (which is fairly accurate), making say 40,000 per year each on average, over the span of 2 years, that is 8 MILLION dollars just to pay the employee's, that does not include, heat, hydro, equipment, marketing, production of gamedisc's, delivery of disc's etc, its not unreasonable to conclude that DA2 would have atleast had a budget of 15 million dollars, now do you think that BioWare makes even 15 dollars per game sold? No they do not, when considering they have to pay MS and sony to put games on their platforms, the cost is huge, as well, EA gets their take, and again, productoin and delivery costs come out of the sales, as well, retail locations do not pay 60 bucks per game, its more like 30 per game.

So my point that they need to sell more than 1 million copies to break even is very reasonable. Check out what people in the industry say for yourself.

Nintendo's own Reggie Fils-Aime states developing games for the Nintendo DS is cheap, costing only a few thousand dollars to develop and only needing to sell 100k units to make a profit. Wii games require about $5-10 million in the average case, including marketing costs. He asserts PS3 and X360 games
need much more resources, from $20 million up to a staggering $50
million with sales of 1.3 to 1.5 million units to make money on them.[8]
Ubisoft boss Yves Guillemot has predicted game budgets will rise
to an average of USD 60 million in the future. Games for Xbox 360 and
PS3 cost between USD 20 million and USD 30 million to make.[9
And when the costs of translating games to multiple formats and
marketing them are included, expenses may reach as high as $50 million
to $60 million, software executives said.[10] Valve's spent $10 million marketing Left 4 Dead.

http://www.develop-o...-as-high-as-28m

Modifié par Night Prowler76, 04 avril 2011 - 01:53 .

[Wye]

Peer of the Empire wrote...

These numbers can just mean those who were interested bought it, not that people recommended against it.

I hope that's the case. I'd love Bioware to keep releasing DA games at least every two years. [Haters, DON'T TALK TO ME!]

[Boiny Bunny]

captain.subtle wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

The Metalion wrote...

randName wrote...
Nice backpeddling; OR does a potenial of DA2 having sold 1 Million sold copies now equal "multiple million", or do you honestly believe the PC version to have sold over 1 Million copies alone?

I'm not backpeddling.  You're picking nits.  I believe, all told, the game WILL sell over 2 million copies.

Even if the game doesn't sell another copy ever, a million sold is hardly a fail.

Actually if a AAA title doesnt sell well over 1 million copies they will likely lose money on the project, so a million sold is a failure to the shareholders, get your facts straight.

That is complete garbage.

Whether the game is 'AAA' or 'EEE' (or whatever the heck other ratings you want to use) makes absolutely no difference.

What matters is:

1) How much it cost to make (this includes marketing, production of discs, shipping, etc. as well as the direct costs)

2) How many copies it sells, over what period, and at what price.

3) Any other overheads (e.g. admin expenses for EA) that are attributable to the project.

Nothing else at all is relevant.

Once you take into account inflation and interest (plus a few other minor things which I won't go into detail about), profit is more or less 2 - 1 - 3.

Whether or not this game is 'AAA' has NOTHING to do with whether it needs to sell well.  All that matters in this respect is how LONG it took them to make it.

DA:O took 5 years to make - and as such, the costs of development were quite large.  They needed to sell a lot of copies to make a profit.  They did.

DA2 had a very short development period, so by comparison, it needs to sell FAR FEWER copies than DA:O to turn a profit.

That's complete garbage. Because Net profit is not how corporates measures success. They measure it by entirely different standards called projections. 

Utterly irrelevant. 

They will make FAR less from DA2 than they projected.  No doubt.  Does this mean they have made a loss?  No.  The game will still generate a profit - it just won't be as large as they thought.

Which is what I responded to in Night Prowler76's post - that he/she said they were going to make a loss.  They will not make a loss.  They will make a profit smaller than expected.  We don't yet know by how much (it will take time to see where the sales/prices end up). 

If it turns out that the profit on DA2 is so small that they could have made a larger profit by investing in another game/company, there is a good chance that Bioware will not be given another chance - and will simply be shut down.  But that really depends on how well ME3 and TOR offset DA2 - which is another story entirely...

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 04 avril 2011 - 03:58 .

[DTKT]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

The Metalion wrote...

randName wrote...
Nice backpeddling; OR does a potenial of DA2 having sold 1 Million sold copies now equal "multiple million", or do you honestly believe the PC version to have sold over 1 Million copies alone?

I'm not backpeddling.  You're picking nits.  I believe, all told, the game WILL sell over 2 million copies.

Even if the game doesn't sell another copy ever, a million sold is hardly a fail.

Actually if a AAA title doesnt sell well over 1 million copies they will likely lose money on the project, so a million sold is a failure to the shareholders, get your facts straight.

That is complete garbage.

Whether the game is 'AAA' or 'EEE' (or whatever the heck other ratings you want to use) makes absolutely no difference.

What matters is:

1) How much it cost to make (this includes marketing, production of discs, shipping, etc. as well as the direct costs)

2) How many copies it sells, over what period, and at what price.

3) Any other overheads (e.g. admin expenses for EA) that are attributable to the project.

Nothing else at all is relevant.

Once you take into account inflation and interest (plus a few other minor things which I won't go into detail about), profit is more or less 2 - 1 - 3.

Whether or not this game is 'AAA' has NOTHING to do with whether it needs to sell well.  All that matters in this respect is how LONG it took them to make it.

DA:O took 5 years to make - and as such, the costs of development were quite large.  They needed to sell a lot of copies to make a profit.  They did.

DA2 had a very short development period, so by comparison, it needs to sell FAR FEWER copies than DA:O to turn a profit.

That's complete garbage. Because Net profit is not how corporates measures success. They measure it by entirely different standards called projections. 

Utterly irrelevant. 

They will make FAR less from DA2 than they projected.  No doubt.  Does this mean they have made a loss?  No.  The game will still generate a profit - it just won't be as large as they thought.

Which is what I responded to in The Metalion's post - that he/she said they were going to make a loss.  They will not make a loss.  They will make a profit smaller than expected.  We don't yet know by how much (it will take time to see where the sales/prices end up). 

If it turns out that the profit on DA2 is so small that they could have made a larger profit by investing in another game/company, there is a good chance that Bioware will not be given another chance - and will simply be shut down.  But that really depends on how well ME3 and TOR offset DA2 - which is another story entirely...

Indeed.

And we cant forget the general "buzz" generated by a games release. In DAII case, it's been quite disappointing and they have to carry that into DAIII and prove that they actually changed something. It dimished the quality associated with Bioware as a whole.

Quite a shame.

[Boiny Bunny]

borscht25 wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

The Metalion wrote...

randName wrote...
Nice backpeddling; OR does a potenial of DA2 having sold 1 Million sold copies now equal "multiple million", or do you honestly believe the PC version to have sold over 1 Million copies alone?

I'm not backpeddling.  You're picking nits.  I believe, all told, the game WILL sell over 2 million copies.

Even if the game doesn't sell another copy ever, a million sold is hardly a fail.

Actually if a AAA title doesnt sell well over 1 million copies they will likely lose money on the project, so a million sold is a failure to the shareholders, get your facts straight.

That is complete garbage.

Whether the game is 'AAA' or 'EEE' (or whatever the heck other ratings you want to use) makes absolutely no difference.

What matters is:

1) How much it cost to make (this includes marketing, production of discs, shipping, etc. as well as the direct costs)

2) How many copies it sells, over what period, and at what price.

3) Any other overheads (e.g. admin expenses for EA) that are attributable to the project.

Nothing else at all is relevant.

Once you take into account inflation and interest (plus a few other minor things which I won't go into detail about), profit is more or less 2 - 1 - 3.

Whether or not this game is 'AAA' has NOTHING to do with whether it needs to sell well.  All that matters in this respect is how LONG it took them to make it.

DA:O took 5 years to make - and as such, the costs of development were quite large.  They needed to sell a lot of copies to make a profit.  They did.

DA2 had a very short development period, so by comparison, it needs to sell FAR FEWER copies than DA:O to turn a profit.

I'm sorry to be rude but this post is beyond silly.

The term "AAA" title is shorthand for exactly the variables that you're nattering on about.  Amongst other things, it refers to having relatively high development costs, a large marketing budget, and graphics that aren't going to be given a mulligan if they are 10 years behind the times.

Go back to your sandbox and let the grownups talk.

Do you actually believe that this game had a large budget?  The marketing campaign was virtually non-existant.  Bioware had to resort to facebook promotions as their primary mechanism to spread the word.  High development costs?  Really?  The game was completed in almost record time - was not actually completed when it went gold, was not tested properly, is riddled with game breaking bugs, makes use of repeated areas all over the place because the developers had no time to create more unique areas, etc.

Whilst you and I clearly have a different definition of what exactly an 'AAA' game is, I don't think that DA2 fits into either definition (quality and polished, high development costs).

At any rate, the scope of my original comment relates to them making a loss.  Projections are quite simply irrelevant.  They give a measure of actual vs expected profit, nothing more.

e.g. if a game costs $10m to make, and generates $20m in revenue, but projected revenue is $50m, has the game made a loss?  No.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

StuartMarshall wrote...

Half price at Game UK already.

Nice, in another month maybe they'll be paying us to play it?

[The Metalion]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Which is what I responded to in The Metalion's post - that he/she said they were going to make a loss.

That's not what (he) said...

I said that selling a million copies of a game is a success in my books.  Over a MILLION people have already bought this game.  1,000,000 copies sold and counting.  On its way to TWO million!  You may have different standards, but to me, that's a huge success.

I didn't say anything about profit/loss.  Regardless of expectations, I doubt any investors lost money in this.

[Boiny Bunny]

The Metalion wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Which is what I responded to in The Metalion's post - that he/she said they were going to make a loss.

That's not what (he) said...

I said that selling a million copies of a game is a success in my books.  Over a MILLION people have already bought this game.  1,000,000 copies sold and counting.  On its way to TWO million!  You may have different standards, but to me, that's a huge success.

I didn't say anything about profit/loss.  Regardless of expectations, I doubt any investors lost money in this.

Apologies, was meant to be Night Prowler76's post.  Edited and fixed now.