516 réponses à ce sujet

[randName]

Ostagar2011 wrote...

All we know is total for DAO up to mid Jan 2010 was 3.2 million (per EA). There were many months of strong sales after that, with a dip only in week 6. Then there was the collectors edition. Per VGchartz DAO cross platform was 3.68 million.

Wasn't that shipped copies, and not sold copies?

[fn_outlaw]

As fans, the sales shouldn't be so much of a concern....I'll admit, it IS nice to see that the numbers (while inaccurate) are dropping...with sales falling like this, I'd almost be willing to bet that BioEA's next move is to release a patch/DLC to bolster sales. Not that I've ever bought a game based off of DLC, but I'm sure someone out there might and that seems to be enough motivation for EAoware to try and capitalize on it.

I'm sure DA2 has already paid for its dev costs and now its all royalties anyway...

[Trogloditius]

Hmm seems like the sales are dropping off rather quickly, but whatever they turn out to be we won't see the effect of this for some time. We need to wait and see what EA's financial report turns out like!

To all those who keep saying VG chartz' data isn't good...
a) Where do they get their data from?
Where would you have us get that data from instead?

[randName]

Trogloditius wrote...
Where would you have us get that data from instead?

NPD I believe; but they do more research, so it takes more time ~ and you know patience is hard.

[DraCZeQQ]

Its fact, that VGChartz number arent accurate, they admit them themselves ... these numbers are a statistical projection based on sales sample ... the bigger sample, the better projection ... so saying the numbers arent accurate dont imply they arent close nor it does not imply they dont give the idea of sales trend ...

And for me this is a good newsbecause it should send exactly the singal I want ... the game is not ok, there are some issues that should be addressed ... if voice of few fans on forums wont get their attention then sales figures might ...

[Packofpickledpeppers]

randName wrote...

Trogloditius wrote...
Where would you have us get that data from instead?

NPD I believe; but they do more research, so it takes more time ~ and you know patience is hard.

NPD wont be releasing any more software sales numbers unless specifically requested to or permitted by software companies anymore.  There's tons of links around the web about this.  It began last week.  So vgchartz is all thats left now, and it's plenty accurate enough.

[Packofpickledpeppers]

fn_outlaw wrote...

As fans, the sales shouldn't be so much of a concern....I'll admit, it IS nice to see that the numbers (while inaccurate) are dropping...with sales falling like this, I'd almost be willing to bet that BioEA's next move is to release a patch/DLC to bolster sales. Not that I've ever bought a game based off of DLC, but I'm sure someone out there might and that seems to be enough motivation for EAoware to try and capitalize on it.

I'm sure DA2 has already paid for its dev costs and now its all royalties anyway...

It should absolutely be a concern.

No matter what corporate drivel you hear about listening to fans the only thing that speaks in the end is $$$.  For all the well deserved bashing this game gets if it would have outsold DAO, which it should have considering it had game of the year name recognition coming in, they'd have laughed.  But it's not selling anywhere near as well as DAO.  Not only that, but the nosedive it took atfer week one with their silly preorder bonuses tactics clearly shows that word of mouth about the poor quality of the game had its intended effect.

So as fans, yes we should be concerned.  Because we know now that if there is a DA3 it will not be like DA2.  We cant even really be sure there will be a DA3 TBH with the dropoff 2 took.

Same as if you liked a movie that got critically panned.  If that movie got panned and still sold well there will be a sequel.  If it got panned and no one else saw it, even if you are in a small minority that liked it, its #'s concern you because there wont be a sequel.

[Trogloditius]

Packofpickledpeppers wrote...

randName wrote...

Trogloditius wrote...
Where would you have us get that data from instead?

NPD I believe; but they do more research, so it takes more time ~ and you know patience is hard.

NPD wont be releasing any more software sales numbers unless specifically requested to or permitted by software companies anymore.  There's tons of links around the web about this.  It began last week.  So vgchartz is all thats left now, and it's plenty accurate enough.

Ooh thanks I missed that.  Interesting... most interesting...

Yes, it seems to me that the sources for such data can only be sampling of retailers or the publishers themselves... and the publishers only have the number shipped.  VG chartz sounds good enough!  OK how about another question...

a) How can reports of games sales affect the share price of company when they don't reflect development costs?

I mean, if, for example, General Motors sell less cars this year, and we assume their production practices haven't wildly changed from last year, we can probably safely assume they made less money this year.  But with video games, the sales return vs development cost can be wildly, wildy skewed... there is an incredibly weak correlation between investment and return.  So what value is there in, as EA are doing, trying to conceal/discredit sales numbers??

[abaris]

Packofpickledpeppers wrote...

So as fans, yes we should be concerned.  Because we know now that if there is a DA3 it will not be like DA2.  We cant even really be sure there will be a DA3 TBH with the dropoff 2 took.

So?

If DAII pays off, DAIII would be every bit as button awsome as this puppy. So I'd rather not have the franchise continued and maybe, just maybe, another future project is learning from the mistakes. Green colored Benjamin Franklin is the only teacher the business world is listening to after all.

[AkiKishi]

The numbers are accurate enough to tell a fail AAA from a successful one.

" One of the last games released by Westwood, Command & Conquer: Renegade (an action game, which mixed elements from first-person shooters and real-time strategy games) failed to meet consumer expectations and commercial goals Electronic Arts had set for it."

It's not just about numbers as you can see it's also about expectations of the public and commercial goals.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 02 avril 2011 - 01:15 .

[Packofpickledpeppers]

abaris wrote...

Packofpickledpeppers wrote...

So as fans, yes we should be concerned.  Because we know now that if there is a DA3 it will not be like DA2.  We cant even really be sure there will be a DA3 TBH with the dropoff 2 took.

So?

If DAII pays off, DAIII would be every bit as button awsome as this puppy. So I'd rather not have the franchise continued and maybe, just maybe, another future project is learning from the mistakes. Green colored Benjamin Franklin is the only teacher the business world is listening to after all.

Hey I'm on your side.  If there is a DA3 and they make it like 2 I'd rather they just dont make it.  They can take their awesome button and shove it up their ass.  The good thing for us is the numbers clearly show they ****ed up so we can expect either no DA3 or a vastly improved one.  Win/win.  Or yeah I guess like you said maybe a different franchise that captures DAOs and previous Bioware games magic while DA turns into low quality wannabe Ninja Gaiden 2 with WoW stats.

[Mantaal]

Packofpickledpeppers wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

Why do you feel the need to attack me personally?

Because you're the one who seems to be putting his head in the sand.

As it was said, that VHcharts might (likely is) off a few hundered or even thousand copies doesn't invalidate that the trend of not selling much is clearly visible.

It was said with no proof.  Here we have links and sales data, you have nothing but blind fanoyism going "It's not accurate it's not accurate! I dont want to beliiiiiiieeeeeeevvvvveeeeeee!"  Give links and data about why these numbers arent accurate and by how much they arent accurate or STFU and GTFO.

A trend is not derived from one source of information. And right now all we have is one (very unreliable) source of information. Not only that but the lack of PC sales (digital) is not accounted for in these numbers whatsoever. His point goes even further to show that even if you could reliably show a trend right now it means nothing about whether this game was more or less profitable for EA than Origins. And there is no way to know that unless, as said, you have access to their stockholder meetings and can actually outright ask them "How much profit per copy of DA2 and DA:O did we make?"

The source of information is showing the trend dummy. See the trend, down down down?  Thats the trend.  The trend is derived from the sinking sales.  And the lack of PC sales shown dont matter.  Why?  Because you can see the trend on the consoles.  Do you think the PC sales are magically great or something?  They're not.  Put them up against DAOs PC sales and no doubt you'll see the same trend as you do on consoles, that DA2 doesnt come close to what its predeccessor did.  That's the whole point.  After just 3 weeks this game has already made millions less.  After 4 weeks the gap will become wider.  After a year it's going to be up in the 10's of millions less.

So yeah, your head = in the sand.  The game stinks and the sales show it.  Get over it.

Thats the reason why i spend still time in the Forums here.

1, The game will be cool wait for the Demo!
2, Well the Demo means nothing wait for the Full game!
3, Well you cant say the game is bad you didnt even finish it! Wait for the reviews!
4, The bad reviewes mean nothing! Wait for the only one that matters on Metacritic
5, Well um Metacritic is crap and only Trolls post there, it does not matter! Wait for the Sales!
6, Well those charts arent accurate! They mean nothing! 
7, Well uhm.. hmmm.. DA2 is just great and you are the Minority! Shutup!!!111

[LightningSamus]

EA how should i feel?

[borscht25]

Jman5 wrote...

borscht25 wrote...

Wait a minute?

Why would the EA/Bioware data be the most reliable? Don't they, ya know, sort of have the MOST reason to distort the data rather than the least?

EA is a publically traded company. If you're a stockholder and you go to the stockholder meeting, you have every right to ask how many units Dragon Age 2 sold. If EA started making up numbers, that's called cooking the books and you go to jail for that.

What the company says at a shareholder's meeting and what they release for public media consumption (which is the only thing anybody on this message board is ever going to read) are two completely different things.  Not to mention the fact that from a shareholder perspective nobody cares about raw sales numbers, they care about profitability, which is a completely fungible number depending on how you assign your expenses.

Let's not be purposefully obtuse here.

[Packofpickledpeppers]

Mantaal wrote...

Thats the reason why i spend still time in the Forums here.

1, The game will be cool wait for the Demo!
2, Well the Demo means nothing wait for the Full game!
3, Well you cant say the game is bad you didnt even finish it! Wait for the reviews!
4, The bad reviewes mean nothing! Wait for the only one that matters on Metacritic
5, Well um Metacritic is crap and only Trolls post there, it does not matter! Wait for the Sales!
6, Well those charts arent accurate! They mean nothing! 
7, Well uhm.. hmmm.. DA2 is just great and you are the Minority! Shutup!!!111

:happy:

<3

[WilliamShatner]

I'm reminded of the episode of The Simpsons when Martin play the stock market, wins big then loses and his father tells him "You got greedy Martin."

[17thknight]

Broken Promise wrote...
It's sad, but true - most of the game sales are generated in first 2-3 weeks after release and very few copies are being sold afterwards (unless it's an exceptional game like DAO that had the best advertising campaign ever: word of mouth one). Sales will probably crawl up to 1.5mil in 6 months or so, but it's far from predictions www.huliq.com/10177/huliq-projects-dragon-age-2-sales-figures-will-exceed-45-million

Let's cross our fingers for DA universe to survive through all the hardships. Some Bioware figures could use a frienly hug for sure...

That's going to be brutal to report to the shareholders.

What's sad is that the suits probably have no ****ing clue that their stupid, worthless, dip****ted idea to shove this game out the door as fast as possible is precisely what caused this catastrophe.

This is why companies like EA are such abominations. The jackasses in charge have zero concept of what a video game is supposed to be. They know absolutely nothing about the market, the consumers, the products, the development. Nothing. It's a bunch of 70 year old men who couldn't tell their ass from an A-button. And these chuckle****s are the ones pushing companies like Bioware to rush rush rush development. It's abhorrent.

BobSmith101 wrote...

The numbers are accurate enough to tell a fail AAA from a successful one.

"
One of the last games released by Westwood, Command & Conquer:
Renegade (an action game, which mixed elements from first-person
shooters and real-time strategy games) failed to meet consumer
expectations and commercial goals Electronic Arts had set for it."

It's not just about numbers as you can see it's also about expectations of the public and commercial goals.

Preciesly. The the little kiddes in the forums have no concept, whatsoever, of what it's like to work in a corporate world. If you make a 'safe' prediction of (and if the general market is predicting) sales anywhere from 2-4 million over 6 months, and you go to shareholders and investors and report sales around half of that? Or less? You are in serious trouble.

Modifié par 17thknight, 02 avril 2011 - 02:14 .

[88mphSlayer]

Trogloditius wrote...

Hmm seems like the sales are dropping off rather quickly, but whatever they turn out to be we won't see the effect of this for some time. We need to wait and see what EA's financial report turns out like!

To all those who keep saying VG chartz' data isn't good...
a) Where do they get their data from?
Where would you have us get that data from instead?

DA2 could sell like a turd and EA would still have a good financial report for March because Crysis 2 is selling so well

[KalDurenik]

Well EA have not waved the "We sold a awesome number of games" flag around. So...

[Ostagar2011]

Mantaal wrote...

Thats the reason why i spend still time in the Forums here.

1, The game will be cool wait for the Demo!
2, Well the Demo means nothing wait for the Full game!
3, Well you cant say the game is bad you didnt even finish it! Wait for the reviews!
4, The bad reviewes mean nothing! Wait for the only one that matters on Metacritic
5, Well um Metacritic is crap and only Trolls post there, it does not matter! Wait for the Sales!
6, Well those charts arent accurate! They mean nothing! 
7, Well uhm.. hmmm.. DA2 is just great and you are the Minority! Shutup!!!111

Agree 100%. I would pity BioWare at this stage, if the above had all been just standard PR boilerplate responses.
However ... these guys actually seemed to believe it. Would not be surprised if they think the whole fiasco is solely down to 4 chan.

I was on these forums during the period where they drip fed announcements of the full horror of the changes they were making to DA2. Any feedback you gave - standard responses:

1) PC elitist
2) Afraid of change
3) Death by semantics ("but there is friendly fire, stupid")
4) Death by strawman attack ("just because party inventory is locked down doesn't mean the whole game is dumbed down")
5) Old fogey alert - go replay Baldur's Gate
6) How can you comment when you haven't even played it?
(+then all the points in your list).

Also the delusional arrogance of Gaider who (around September) taunted a poster critical of DA2's direction telling him to "deal with it or go" adding a flippant "you won't be missed". And then humilated him if he so much as posted a single line again. Just wow. Then another critical poster was spammed (like 3 times in the same thread) with an animated gif of Michael Scott shoving an old man out of an office and slamming the door in his face. The mods were silent and let the gifs stay. Deleted my BioWare account that day out of  sympathy for whoever it was. And with yesterday's weak sales numbers, those whose loyalty to BioWare over many years was rewarded with hubris and bullying can now tell Gaider to "deal with it".

[88mphSlayer]

17thknight wrote...

Broken Promise wrote...
It's sad, but true - most of the game sales are generated in first 2-3 weeks after release and very few copies are being sold afterwards (unless it's an exceptional game like DAO that had the best advertising campaign ever: word of mouth one). Sales will probably crawl up to 1.5mil in 6 months or so, but it's far from predictions www.huliq.com/10177/huliq-projects-dragon-age-2-sales-figures-will-exceed-45-million

Let's cross our fingers for DA universe to survive through all the hardships. Some Bioware figures could use a frienly hug for sure...

That's going to be brutal to report to the shareholders.

What's sad is that the suits probably have no ****ing clue that their stupid, worthless, dip****ted idea to shove this game out the door as fast as possible is precisely what caused this catastrophe.

This is why companies like EA are such abominations. The jackasses in charge have zero concept of what a video game is supposed to be. They know absolutely nothing about the market, the consumers, the products, the development. Nothing. It's a bunch of 70 year old men who couldn't tell their ass from an A-button. And these chuckle****s are the ones pushing companies like Bioware to rush rush rush development. It's abhorrent.

BobSmith101 wrote...

The numbers are accurate enough to tell a fail AAA from a successful one.

"
One of the last games released by Westwood, Command & Conquer:
Renegade (an action game, which mixed elements from first-person
shooters and real-time strategy games) failed to meet consumer
expectations and commercial goals Electronic Arts had set for it."

It's not just about numbers as you can see it's also about expectations of the public and commercial goals.

Preciesly. The the little kiddes in the forums have no concept, whatsoever, of what it's like to work in a corporate world. If you make a 'safe' prediction of (and if the general market is predicting) sales anywhere from 2-4 million over 6 months, and you go to shareholders and investors and report sales around half of that? Or less? You are in serious trouble.

ya know nowadays it's kind of the norm to bash the publishers thanks to EA/Activision's antics but Bioware started going in this direction long before they left Microsoft, if there's something i might be able to blame EA for it's the budgets they give games and the release windows as well as their general juvenile marketing

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 02 avril 2011 - 03:22 .

[Packofpickledpeppers]

Ostagar2011 wrote...

Mantaal wrote...

Thats the reason why i spend still time in the Forums here.

1, The game will be cool wait for the Demo!
2, Well the Demo means nothing wait for the Full game!
3, Well you cant say the game is bad you didnt even finish it! Wait for the reviews!
4, The bad reviewes mean nothing! Wait for the only one that matters on Metacritic
5, Well um Metacritic is crap and only Trolls post there, it does not matter! Wait for the Sales!
6, Well those charts arent accurate! They mean nothing! 
7, Well uhm.. hmmm.. DA2 is just great and you are the Minority! Shutup!!!111

Agree 100%. I would pity BioWare at this stage, if the above had all been just standard PR boilerplate responses.
However ... these guys actually seemed to believe it. Would not be surprised if they think the whole fiasco is solely down to 4 chan.

I was on these forums during the period where they drip fed announcements of the full horror of the changes they were making to DA2. Any feedback you gave - standard responses:

1) PC elitist
2) Afraid of change
3) Death by semantics ("but there is friendly fire, stupid")
4) Death by strawman attack ("just because party inventory is locked down doesn't mean the whole game is dumbed down")
5) Old fogey alert - go replay Baldur's Gate
6) How can you comment when you haven't even played it?
(+then all the points in your list).

Also the delusional arrogance of Gaider who (around September) taunted a poster critical of DA2's direction telling him to "deal with it or go" adding a flippant "you won't be missed". And then humilated him if he so much as posted a single line again. Just wow. Then another critical poster was spammed (like 3 times in the same thread) with an animated gif of Michael Scott shoving an old man out of an office and slamming the door in his face. The mods were silent and let the gifs stay. Deleted my BioWare account that day out of  sympathy for whoever it was. And with yesterday's weak sales numbers, those whose loyalty to BioWare over many years was rewarded with hubris and bullying can now tell Gaider to "deal with it".

Well said.  They did it to themselves and now we get to watch as they "deal with it".  Much more satisfying than the game itself.

[abaris]

Fandango9641 wrote...

I fear that the fallout from the failed experiment that is DA2 will linger long in the memories of those who share my disappointment with a truly terrible game. And yes, those numbers will likely be as distressing to Bioware (and their stakeholders) as the game was offensive to me. Such a pity, but they deserve nothing more.

Less people will preorder. Which is a good thing in my book, since preordering is always kind of stupid in my opinion. Its like Forrest Gump saying "you never know what you get".

But if they are to publish something worthy I will buy it. One game doesn't ruin a name. But if they continue on the button awsome path, they can well cater to their new thankful audience.

[Otterwarden]

borscht25 wrote...

What the company says at a shareholder's meeting and what they release for public media consumption (which is the only thing anybody on this message board is ever going to read) are two completely different things.  Not to mention the fact that from a shareholder perspective nobody cares about raw sales numbers, they care about profitability, which is a completely fungible number depending on how you assign your expenses.

Let's not be purposefully obtuse here.

Rather short-sighted shareholders.  Unit sales determine market size, number of customers potentially interested in buying a follow up product.  Profitability is important to the bottom line, but if it is not sustainable it will collapse on itself.  If the profitability was obtained at the expense of the product's reputation for quality this would interest most intelligent shareholders.  After all the share price is forward looking.

[Otterwarden]

Packofpickledpeppers wrote...

Ostagar2011 wrote...

Mantaal wrote...

Thats the reason why i spend still time in the Forums here.

1, The game will be cool wait for the Demo!
2, Well the Demo means nothing wait for the Full game!
3, Well you cant say the game is bad you didnt even finish it! Wait for the reviews!
4, The bad reviewes mean nothing! Wait for the only one that matters on Metacritic
5, Well um Metacritic is crap and only Trolls post there, it does not matter! Wait for the Sales!
6, Well those charts arent accurate! They mean nothing! 
7, Well uhm.. hmmm.. DA2 is just great and you are the Minority! Shutup!!!111

Agree 100%. I would pity BioWare at this stage, if the above had all been just standard PR boilerplate responses.
However ... these guys actually seemed to believe it. Would not be surprised if they think the whole fiasco is solely down to 4 chan.

I was on these forums during the period where they drip fed announcements of the full horror of the changes they were making to DA2. Any feedback you gave - standard responses:

1) PC elitist
2) Afraid of change
3) Death by semantics ("but there is friendly fire, stupid")
4) Death by strawman attack ("just because party inventory is locked down doesn't mean the whole game is dumbed down")
5) Old fogey alert - go replay Baldur's Gate
6) How can you comment when you haven't even played it?
(+then all the points in your list).

Also the delusional arrogance of Gaider who (around September) taunted a poster critical of DA2's direction telling him to "deal with it or go" adding a flippant "you won't be missed". And then humilated him if he so much as posted a single line again. Just wow. Then another critical poster was spammed (like 3 times in the same thread) with an animated gif of Michael Scott shoving an old man out of an office and slamming the door in his face. The mods were silent and let the gifs stay. Deleted my BioWare account that day out of  sympathy for whoever it was. And with yesterday's weak sales numbers, those whose loyalty to BioWare over many years was rewarded with hubris and bullying can now tell Gaider to "deal with it".

Well said.  They did it to themselves and now we get to watch as they "deal with it".  Much more satisfying than the game itself.

Best retort I saw for this was "the sales have been streamlined".