1062 réponses à ce sujet

[Hibernating]

Also, when you hear about the reapers destroying the protheans they talk about the reapers shutting down all the mass effect relays from the citadel so the prothean fleet was disorganized. During that cycle it states that the protheans were the only race who made it to the citadel, why would the reapers bother if they were so invinsible? I also think they simply wouldnt comprehend retreat if they had been doing this over and over again for millions of years, the idea that "flawed organic life" could beat them wouldnt occur and with so many races reaching the citadel this time in addition to the geth I think the battle, while intense and with heavy casualties, would be over before they comprehended that hey, where going to loose this fight lets run away and re-group.

[Durgon Ironfist]

 It is possible to defeat the reapers but only if Kiva fixes the time drive.

Modifié par Durgon Ironfist, 04 avril 2011 - 01:51 .

[Devgil]

Dave666 wrote...

Soahfreako wrote...

Devgil wrote...

Am I going to get a response at all?

Now that you've asked for one, I suspect the possibility of you getting a response would be about 5.73%. But now that I've said this someone will respond to spite me so now your probability is not 85.96%.

I'm going to second this to up your percentage. 

btw I'm still going through the thread and looking for yours. 


*edit* Ok just read it and...er...what?

Using the Dark Matter that causes the Galaxy to spin to throw the Reapers out of the Galaxy?  Wouldn't that tear the Galaxy apart?  Or have I mis-interpreted it?

You've mis-interpreted, sorry. Dark matter doesn't cause the galaxy to spin. It causes all of the objects within to defy the laws of centripetal motion by all moving at the same speed. If we gain control of that block, we gain the ability to manipulate everything inside of it. Including the Reaper fleet. And no, manipulation would not rip the galaxy apart. It would just rip apart exactly what we wanted to rip apart. We would effectively become capable of instantaneous manipulation of our galactic enviroment. Total manipulation. To the point where we'd be able to teleport solar systems and entire star clusters around at will.

So back to what I said earlier.

Shep: Hello Reapers. *Waves hands at massive screen of the galaxy with omni-tool active. Reaper armada vanishes.* Goodbye Reapers.
NPC: What did you just do?
Shep: I sent them into the singularity at the heart of our galaxy. They won't be coming back. *smiles* I think we won.

So...yeah....

The Reapers can be beaten. Beaten with as much effort as it take to sway a fly.

[Dave666]

Devgil wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Soahfreako wrote...

Devgil wrote...

Am I going to get a response at all?

Now that you've asked for one, I suspect the possibility of you getting a response would be about 5.73%. But now that I've said this someone will respond to spite me so now your probability is not 85.96%.

I'm going to second this to up your percentage. 

btw I'm still going through the thread and looking for yours. 


*edit* Ok just read it and...er...what?

Using the Dark Matter that causes the Galaxy to spin to throw the Reapers out of the Galaxy?  Wouldn't that tear the Galaxy apart?  Or have I mis-interpreted it?

You've mis-interpreted, sorry. Dark matter doesn't cause the galaxy to spin. It causes all of the objects within to defy the laws of centripetal motion by all moving at the same speed. If we gain control of that block, we gain the ability to manipulate everything inside of it. Including the Reaper fleet. And no, manipulation would not rip the galaxy apart. It would just rip apart exactly what we wanted to rip apart. We would effectively become capable of instantaneous manipulation of our galactic enviroment. Total manipulation. To the point where we'd be able to teleport solar systems and entire star clusters around at will.

So back to what I said earlier.

Shep: Hello Reapers. *Waves hands at massive screen of the galaxy with omni-tool active. Reaper armada vanishes.* Goodbye Reapers.
NPC: What did you just do?
Shep: I sent them into the singularity at the heart of our galaxy. They won't be coming back. *smiles* I think we won.

So...yeah....

The Reapers can be beaten. Beaten with as much effort as it take to sway a fly.

Ah, I see now, not sure how plausible that would be given that the Reapers are 37 million years old and even they haven't figured out how to do that, but I'm sure you could see why I was confused.  

Wasn't trying to be insulting, I just had a 'wha...?' moment. 

[Devgil]

Dave666 wrote...

Devgil wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Soahfreako wrote...

Devgil wrote...

Am I going to get a response at all?

Now that you've asked for one, I suspect the possibility of you getting a response would be about 5.73%. But now that I've said this someone will respond to spite me so now your probability is not 85.96%.

I'm going to second this to up your percentage. 

btw I'm still going through the thread and looking for yours. 


*edit* Ok just read it and...er...what?

Using the Dark Matter that causes the Galaxy to spin to throw the Reapers out of the Galaxy?  Wouldn't that tear the Galaxy apart?  Or have I mis-interpreted it?

You've mis-interpreted, sorry. Dark matter doesn't cause the galaxy to spin. It causes all of the objects within to defy the laws of centripetal motion by all moving at the same speed. If we gain control of that block, we gain the ability to manipulate everything inside of it. Including the Reaper fleet. And no, manipulation would not rip the galaxy apart. It would just rip apart exactly what we wanted to rip apart. We would effectively become capable of instantaneous manipulation of our galactic enviroment. Total manipulation. To the point where we'd be able to teleport solar systems and entire star clusters around at will.

So back to what I said earlier.

Shep: Hello Reapers. *Waves hands at massive screen of the galaxy with omni-tool active. Reaper armada vanishes.* Goodbye Reapers.
NPC: What did you just do?
Shep: I sent them into the singularity at the heart of our galaxy. They won't be coming back. *smiles* I think we won.

So...yeah....

The Reapers can be beaten. Beaten with as much effort as it take to sway a fly.

Ah, I see now, not sure how plausible that would be given that the Reapers are 37 million years old and even they haven't figured out how to do that, but I'm sure you could see why I was confused.  

Wasn't trying to be insulting, I just had a 'wha...?' moment. 

It's no problem, I knew I was going to get some funny looks when I posted hard physics here

However, there's a plausible reason for why the Reapers have never worked this out. Simply put, they don't need to. They've never had any need to advance themselves since starting this cycle all those millions of years ago. From how they act, they're locked into a state of technological stasis worse than that of Ancient China. So...yeah.

Also, @Saphra. You going to answer me?

Modifié par Devgil, 04 avril 2011 - 02:33 .

[Getorex]

There is one thing that none of ya'll have considered...but you are in good company because the Protheans, their predecessors, etc, through every cycle of reaping failed to consider it as well: the Reapers are more than likely susceptible to DDT or some other pesticide. They DO look like fleas or lice, afterall.

The superweapon that will be used against them at the penultimate moment of desperation is a big can of Raid.

Even the Reapers have forgotten that they are just bugs. Of course, the joke's on US if they turn out to actually be Bedbugs. Those bastards are immune now to almost all chemical pesticides.

Hope that the Reapers are fleas or lice rather than Bedbugs and hose them down with insecticide. Ta-da. Win.

[Getorex]

Devgil wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Devgil wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Soahfreako wrote...

Devgil wrote...

Am I going to get a response at all?

Now that you've asked for one, I suspect the possibility of you getting a response would be about 5.73%. But now that I've said this someone will respond to spite me so now your probability is not 85.96%.

I'm going to second this to up your percentage. 

btw I'm still going through the thread and looking for yours. 


*edit* Ok just read it and...er...what?

Using the Dark Matter that causes the Galaxy to spin to throw the Reapers out of the Galaxy?  Wouldn't that tear the Galaxy apart?  Or have I mis-interpreted it?

You've mis-interpreted, sorry. Dark matter doesn't cause the galaxy to spin. It causes all of the objects within to defy the laws of centripetal motion by all moving at the same speed. If we gain control of that block, we gain the ability to manipulate everything inside of it. Including the Reaper fleet. And no, manipulation would not rip the galaxy apart. It would just rip apart exactly what we wanted to rip apart. We would effectively become capable of instantaneous manipulation of our galactic enviroment. Total manipulation. To the point where we'd be able to teleport solar systems and entire star clusters around at will.

So back to what I said earlier.

Shep: Hello Reapers. *Waves hands at massive screen of the galaxy with omni-tool active. Reaper armada vanishes.* Goodbye Reapers.
NPC: What did you just do?
Shep: I sent them into the singularity at the heart of our galaxy. They won't be coming back. *smiles* I think we won.

So...yeah....

The Reapers can be beaten. Beaten with as much effort as it take to sway a fly.

Ah, I see now, not sure how plausible that would be given that the Reapers are 37 million years old and even they haven't figured out how to do that, but I'm sure you could see why I was confused.  

Wasn't trying to be insulting, I just had a 'wha...?' moment. 

It's no problem, I knew I was going to get some funny looks when I posted hard physics here

However, there's a plausible reason for why the Reapers have never worked this out. Simply put, they don't need to. They've never had any need to advance themselves since starting this cycle all those millions of years ago. From how they act, they're locked into a state of technological stasis worse than that of Ancient China. So...yeah.

Also, @Saphra. You going to answer me?

Err...dark matter does not make anything defy anything.  Dark matter, being invisible to all normal means of detection makes it APPEAR that visible matter is not behaving properly.  That is, the dark matter makes up much more of the actual gravitationally-interacting matter in a galaxy than the actual visible matter so if you merely assume that what you see is all that's there, then something is wrong.  If the dark matter mass is there, then everything is behaving perfectly as expected, orbiting around the center of mass of the galaxy as they should if the total mass adds up to a great deal more than can be seen.

No magic, no defying of laws of physics, no violations of propriety. 

Modifié par Getorex, 04 avril 2011 - 02:40 .

[Arijharn]

I'll just save time by hitting the meat'n'potatoes.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

All of that takes time.

Which the Reapers have a nigh infinite amount of.

Yes and no. If humanity is able to hide away (in any number of ways which have already been touched upon) then our chances of 'winning' (aka; straight survival) increases due to the Reapers starting to think: "oh, so we've already exterminated the species?). Precedent for this has been set with Ilos, and even though Ilos eventually 'failed' in the sense that eventually the cyro systems failed, the general concept behind the endeavour continues to work.

A second thing to consider though is this; if you truly think that the Reapers can view and comprehend the entire galaxy at once, then I think you're being plain argumentative to the point of just being stubborn (aka; not really interested in a debate and by being 'close-minded'). The Reapers, for all their technological might, aren't 'gods.' The Reapers are bound by physical limitations as well, and even if their physical 'limitations' may be a bit more relaxed than ours, there is no basis in your claim (as far as we can see) that they can see practically all of Creation at once. The 'limitations' could be something like reading individual planets etc, but that's still remote and that still takes a lot of time (even for the Reapers because like I said earlier; we have explored less than 1% of the solar system, so if we went beyond 'known space' then that would mean that it would take longer for the Reapers to find us yet again, since we'd be working outside the limitations that the Reapers would expect, since we are no longer slaved to our 'census data.' Understand my meaning?).

The technological might for the Reapers is impressive, is indeed daunting, but if we are able to hide to some degree at the outset, then even if the vast majority of humanity is extinguished, then the survival rates for the remainder should go up somewhat (providing of course, some standards are set; aka, not settling on core worlds, utilise gravitational anamolies to 'hide' from cursory scanning, aka; hiding within gas giants where able -- not bulletproof of course but better than nothing). Of course, the quality of life for the survivors would be pretty low but it's better than extinction.

But hey, I'm not sure if this 'conversation' is even worth it, because you'll probably come out with yet another reason of why somehow the Reapers will have an infinite timeframe (what causes you to say or think this?)

[moddit]

We could fly hundreds, thousands, millions, bazillions of small planets into the Reapers. I'm sure there are plenty lying around in our Oort Cloud.. or Kuiper Belt. To humor everyone, we could have the Reapers attack earth, and have millions of VI or AI (or Geth) controlled asteroids that are accelerated to near light speed and swat the Reapers away. People said the Mass Relays couldn't be destroyed sooo...

Or the galaxy could follow something along the lines of the Redeker Plan. Reapers are kind of like zombies... right?

And what about the mini relay the Protheans made that's in the Citadel? Could the Council reverse engineer it to understand how it works? You could use its properties of accelerating sh!t stupid fast and made that an extremely compact super weapon (i.e. launching heavy things at great speeds).

Smo' edits: if we can get an effecient compact mass accelerator, why not firehigh-yield nukes to eff with the Reapers shield, systems, etc. in space? Humans went from making nukes in the 10-15 kiloton range to 50 or more megaton range in a couple decades, who says we can't developed gigaton nukes? And if such a weapon is fired at a Reaper ship, at even 1% of light speed (~6.7 million MPH), I don't see how it could be shot down or disabled.

Also, what about massive VI or AI controlled armies? Yea the Reapers could attack with a virus but if you can create AI's similar to EDI or resilient enough like Vigil, why not use them to remotely control expendable shock troops? I'm not saying creating the Geth again or individual intelligences, just have a single intelligence multitask and control say several battalions of 'soldiers'.

Modifié par moddit, 04 avril 2011 - 03:16 .

[Getorex]

moddit wrote...

We could fly hundreds, thousands, millions, bazillions of small planets into the Reapers. I'm sure there are plenty lying around in our Oort Cloud.. or Kuiper Belt. To humor everyone, we could have the Reapers attack earth, and have millions of VI or AI (or Geth) controlled asteroids that are accelerated to near light speed and swat the Reapers away. People said the Mass Relays couldn't be destroyed sooo...

The Reapers, being something along the lines of 50 million yrs old in their current advanced state have these bumper stickers on their backs that can only be seen if you are tailgating them.  They say, "My VI can beat up your VI".  They've been doing the AI/VI thing since almost the time the dinosaurs last walked the earth (en mass...birds are dinosaurs - raptor line to be specific - so technically, they still walk the earth but you get my drift).

[1490]

"This is a 20 kilo ferrous slug: feel the weight.  Every five seconds, the main gun of an Everest class dreadnought accelerates
this 1 to 1.3% of light speed. It impacts with the force of a 38
kiloton bomb. That it three times the yield of the city-buster dropped
on Hiroshima back on Earth. That means, Sir Isaac Newton is the
deadliest son of a b*tch in space!" -Gunnery Chief in Zakera ward.

That's a nuke tossed out every 5 seconds: I'm pretty sure just a standard dreadnought could completely obliterate the populated areas of a planet in less than a week.  A Reaper is bigger than an Everest
class dreadnought and probably has more and better guns with their
hyper-advanced technology: one hasn't shown us what it can do because
they usually ignore attackers, being impervious to most weapons. Safe
to say, if there are multiple Reapers on Earth and it isn't an
artificially-volcanic planet by the end of a week, they're not there to
destroy....

[moddit]

Harbinger couldn't beat up EDI though, just keep her busy. Either way, improvements could probably be made from just a shipboard AI to an entire space station(s) that houses an AI('s), or planetary installations. Heck, with the extranet it's possible an AI (if un-shackled and trusted, I played Overlord ) could transfer itself to another station if its original was destroyed. Who knows how long Cerberus spent on EDI (at least 2+ maybe 2.5 years). But since the tech worked, it's probable that smarter, faster AI's could be made to help the things 'made out of meat'.

[moddit]

1490 wrote...


"This is a 20 kilo ferrous slug: feel the weight.  Every five seconds, the main gun of an Everest class dreadnought accelerates
this 1 to 1.3% of light speed. It impacts with the force of a 38
kiloton bomb. That it three times the yield of the city-buster dropped
on Hiroshima back on Earth. That means, Sir Isaac Newton is the
deadliest son of a b*tch in space!" -Gunnery Chief in Zakera ward.


That's a nuke tossed out every 5 seconds: I'm pretty sure just a standard dreadnought could completely obliterate the populated areas of a planet in less than a week.  A Reaper is bigger than an Everest
class dreadnought and probably has more and better guns with their
hyper-advanced technology: one hasn't shown us what it can do because
they usually ignore attackers, being impervious to most weapons. Safe
to say, if there are multiple Reapers on Earth and it isn't an
artificially-volcanic planet by the end of a week, they're not there to
destroy....

They shoot lazers out of their tentacles, durrrr. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

[SandTrout]

Note that the Reapers do not seek to make the galaxy uninhabitable; they seek to wipe out the existing civilizations so that more might rise in their place. The mass accelerator equivalent of carpet bombing is not compatible with this goal.

[jamesp81]

SandTrout wrote...

Note that the Reapers do not seek to make the galaxy uninhabitable; they seek to wipe out the existing civilizations so that more might rise in their place. The mass accelerator equivalent of carpet bombing is not compatible with this goal.

Which gives the good guys time.  The Reapers are going to spend a long time on each planet indoctrinating, husk-ifying, and killing.  I say let them chew on the Batarians for a year or two while the rest of the galaxy prepares.

[1490]

moddit wrote...
They shoot lazers out of their tentacles, durrrr. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

I imagine that was its close-range GARDIAN-type laser systems.  I'm sure it has mass effect-driven projectiles as well, but you don't want to be firing nuke-slugs off at point blank range, less you want to kill yourself.

EDIT: actually, if I remember the codex right, those weren't lasers Sovereign was shooting, but magnetically-projected streams of superheated metal plasma.  Probably way better than a laser, but either way it serves the purpose of a close-range GARDIAN weapon, not a long-range slug weapon that fires at around 3,000 km/sec.

Modifié par 1490, 04 avril 2011 - 09:55 .

[jamesp81]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Seriously. There can be several ways the Reapers may be defeated:

1. The Reapers are morons (the most implausible, but the most likely scenario, which would also cover a lot of plotholes in one giant swoop).

2. Super-weapon (for instance, Cerberus puts 16105317 puppies in a meat grinder and finds a way to equip every space ship with a reverse engineered Klendagon weapon).

3. Deus Ex Machina (for instance, the "beings of light" return to save us all).

Or any combination thereof.

I don't see #3 happening.  #2, maybe.

Most likely, a weakness will be found and exploited so we kill them before they genocide the entire planet Earth.  On a good note, if all goes well, we might have intact Reapers that are truly and finally dead just sitting on Earth to be reverse engineered.  Yeah, I know what happens when we play with Reaper tech, but if they've been on Earth raping and pillaging you're kind of already past that.

[jamesp81]

1490 wrote...

moddit wrote...
They shoot lazers out of their tentacles, durrrr. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

I imagine that was its close-range GARDIAN-type laser systems.  I'm sure it has mass effect-driven projectiles as well, but you don't want to be firing nuke-slugs off at point blank range, less you want to kill yourself.

The "lasers" that fired from Sovereign's arms are what is now called a Thanix cannon, a weapon which you equip the SR2 with before going through the Omega 4 Relay if you're smart.  It's not a beam weapon despite appearances, but instead it's a cannon that uses electromagnetism to propel a jet of super heated molten metal to relativistic velocities.

Essentially, the cannon on the SR2 in ME2 is a smaller version of the weapons Sovereign was armed with.  Build a few dreadnought sized versions of that weapon and mount them on large warships, and destroying a Reaper becomes merely "very difficult" as opposed to "impossible".

[jamesp81]

Saphra Deden wrote...

You're better off surrendering.

You're better off dying in battle, actually.

Freedom overy slavery.  Death before dishonor.

[Dave666]

Saphra Deden wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

You're better off dying in battle, actually.

Freedom overy slavery.  Death before dishonor.

This is about the species as a whole, not one man's freedom or dignity.

The problem there though is that surrendering to the Reapers is dying as a species.

[1490]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Perhaps it was because I felt the Reapers were for all intents and purposes invincible (in the sense that we can't ever hope to defeat all of them) that I arrived at the conclusion that it was (improbable) impossible we could defeat them in the coming war? It's dangerous to assume your enemy is weaker. Better to assume the worst and prepare for it. Though in this case there isn't much any amount of preparation will do.

You're better off surrendering.

You're taking a logical stance toward the Reaper invasion.  If this were a real life scenario, there'd be no possible way we could win, because A: the reapers are more numerous and more powerful than all our combined forces, so no competition there and B: if they are millions of years old and more intelligent than we could ever comprehend, they have already thought of every loophole we could possibly exploit, eliminate any weakness they could think of in themselves - constantly improving, have backup plan upon backup plan in case of failures, and have observed and learned of trends in mortal resistance from the dozens to hundreds of civilizations they've conquered over the millions of years.

Problem is, that would make for a boring and disappointing game. Who wants to try to beat a game when they know it's impossible to win? Who wants to see their favorite character who they have brought through two games simply beaten down by something infinitely-cooler than them? Bioware/EA has to sell games, and they aren't going to do it by pwning players with impossible-to-beat enemies.  That is why there will be an illogical and unrealistic Deus ex machina weakness or saving grace that will allow one human (Shepard), a miniscule creature by comparison, to destroy or banish all of them singlehandedly. Explanation? Arrogance.  The Reapers are so powerful they think no single, tiny creature could POSSIBLY pose a threat to them. It's the Death Star mentality: let's leave this convenient "blow up the space station" trigger just because we doubt anyone can actually exploit it. 

Realistic? Not at all. But what else in this game is possible that shouldn't be? FTL travel? Check. Perfect resurrection with memory after complete CNS cell destruction? Check. Replacing all ballistic weapons systems with parts that allow them to shoot LESS. Not impossible, but it would be ridiculously-stupid in real life. But without these impossible things, Mass Effect wouldn't be as cool.

Modifié par 1490, 04 avril 2011 - 10:13 .