1062 réponses à ce sujet

[SlipperehPuppeh]

Saphra Deden wrote...
The only remote possibility of victory is if we wait until all of the Reapers are busy harvesting Earth and then blow up the Charon relay. Theoreticaly the shockwave would overtake the Earth and destroy all of the Reapers before they could flee. 

You erroneously assume that the Reapers are only attacking Earth. Let me remind you, in the end of ME2 we saw what looked like thousands of Reapers approaching the Milky Way. We only saw seven on Earth in the teaser trailer. 

[1490]

Saphra Deden wrote...

1490 wrote...

You're taking a logical stance toward the Reaper invasion....

...Problem is, that would make for a boring and disappointing game.

Oh I know, but it's more fun to discuss it this way.

Sure thing, I'm all about theoretical discussions!

[Devgil]

Getorex wrote...

Devgil wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Devgil wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Soahfreako wrote...

Devgil wrote...

Am I going to get a response at all?

Now that you've asked for one, I suspect the possibility of you getting a response would be about 5.73%. But now that I've said this someone will respond to spite me so now your probability is not 85.96%.

I'm going to second this to up your percentage. 

btw I'm still going through the thread and looking for yours. 


*edit* Ok just read it and...er...what?

Using the Dark Matter that causes the Galaxy to spin to throw the Reapers out of the Galaxy?  Wouldn't that tear the Galaxy apart?  Or have I mis-interpreted it?

You've mis-interpreted, sorry. Dark matter doesn't cause the galaxy to spin. It causes all of the objects within to defy the laws of centripetal motion by all moving at the same speed. If we gain control of that block, we gain the ability to manipulate everything inside of it. Including the Reaper fleet. And no, manipulation would not rip the galaxy apart. It would just rip apart exactly what we wanted to rip apart. We would effectively become capable of instantaneous manipulation of our galactic enviroment. Total manipulation. To the point where we'd be able to teleport solar systems and entire star clusters around at will.

So back to what I said earlier.

Shep: Hello Reapers. *Waves hands at massive screen of the galaxy with omni-tool active. Reaper armada vanishes.* Goodbye Reapers.
NPC: What did you just do?
Shep: I sent them into the singularity at the heart of our galaxy. They won't be coming back. *smiles* I think we won.

So...yeah....

The Reapers can be beaten. Beaten with as much effort as it take to sway a fly.

Ah, I see now, not sure how plausible that would be given that the Reapers are 37 million years old and even they haven't figured out how to do that, but I'm sure you could see why I was confused.  

Wasn't trying to be insulting, I just had a 'wha...?' moment. 

It's no problem, I knew I was going to get some funny looks when I posted hard physics here

However, there's a plausible reason for why the Reapers have never worked this out. Simply put, they don't need to. They've never had any need to advance themselves since starting this cycle all those millions of years ago. From how they act, they're locked into a state of technological stasis worse than that of Ancient China. So...yeah.

Also, @Saphra. You going to answer me?

Err...dark matter does not make anything defy anything.  Dark matter, being invisible to all normal means of detection makes it APPEAR that visible matter is not behaving properly.  That is, the dark matter makes up much more of the actual gravitationally-interacting matter in a galaxy than the actual visible matter so if you merely assume that what you see is all that's there, then something is wrong.  If the dark matter mass is there, then everything is behaving perfectly as expected, orbiting around the center of mass of the galaxy as they should if the total mass adds up to a great deal more than can be seen.

No magic, no defying of laws of physics, no violations of propriety. 

Yes, it does. According to the equations, the outer and inner stars in the Milky Way should orbit the galactic core at different speeds. The fact is however, they don't. The most current theory on this is that our galaxy - and every other - is 'stuck' in a block of dark matter that spins around the galactic core. As all stars are within the block and the block is rotating at a uniform speed, all the stars move at the same velocity. By centripetal motion, this is completely wrong. And yet it happens.

So if the theory on this is correct and we can work out a way to manipulate the block of dark matter that our galaxy is currently embeded inside of, then we're golden. I no that it isn't detectable, that's the point of the name - likewise with dark energy. But it's also theorised that sufficent quantities of dark energy can overwhelm the fundamental forces. This is actually the science behind one of the lesser known theories for the end of the universe. The amount of dark energy flowing into our universe - yes, this is happening, somehow - increases until the fundamental forces break down into nothing. The strong nuclear force fails and all matter converts to energy.

Y'know, now that I think about it, a device that could do that locally could blow the entire Reaper armada away...

Modifié par Devgil, 04 avril 2011 - 11:03 .

[Devgil]

Saphra Deden wrote...

How exactly do we get this to throw the Reapers out of the galaxy though? Also I think ****ing with the rotation of the galaxy might be a wee bit dangerous, don't you?

To answer your second question first, we won't be. As to your first question; by gaining control of the block that our galaxy is embedded in, we become capable of influencing everything within that block. And manipulating it will likely be instantaneous, so no FTL escape. So we just transport the entire Reaper armada in a black hole or something by - quite literally - picking them up in one place and dropping them in another.

And if the scheme just involves dark energy, I direct you to my above post involving the ability for dark energy to cancel out the fundamental forces. Reapers can't really reap when the collective mass of their entire armada has been converted into energy.

[Devgil]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Devgil wrote...

To answer your second question first, we won't be. As to your first question; by gaining control of the block that our galaxy is embedded in, we become capable of influencing everything within that block.

Umm.... how? Are you gonna hook up a computer that will magically generate an interface for you where you can select individual atoms in the galaxy and decide what to do with them?

Yep. Soft sci-fi my dear.

It's such a lovely thing

And your entire argument is, as of now, null and void.

[Devgil]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Devgil wrote...

Yep. Soft sci-fi my dear.

Soft sci-fi is not a defense. Thanks for contributing, but I don't think you've made quite the impact you wanted.

I am unimpressed.

Once again, you can imagine anything you want but you need to explain how it will work and why it will work.

Except I don't. You are trying to apply logic to a soft sci-fi universe. This is what the MST3K mantra is for. You have yourself admitted that, due to the fact that this is both a game and a soft sci-fi universe, logic will not apply. And I have explained to you how and why this will work.

However. A more advanced version of EDI and/or a Geth collective would likely be able to create the sort of interface we need for this. Yes, I know that space is huge. But you have enough AI's running in tandem and you'll get there pretty damned fast. So this comes down to a "hold off the massive enemy force until we can activate the superweapon" game. You fail, Reapers win and we probably blow every single relay in the galaxy as we attempt to retreat and regroup from crushing military defeat. And eventually, yes, we lose.

But you have thus far ignored my dark energy weapon proposal. Do you have a response to that? As it could win the war just as handily as dark matter manipulation.

[Devgil]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Devgil wrote...


Except I don't. You are trying to apply logic to a soft sci-fi universe.

I'm applying the logic supplied by that fictional universe.

If you're going to apply the MST3K mantra then I suggest you follow your own advice and get out of the thread since you have no real investment in it nor any motivation to defend your position or to justify it.

I think we can invent a weapon that will make the Reapers turn inside out and die.

That's how we'll win the war.

"How will this weapon work?" Asks Admiral Hackett.

My response: "It doesn't matter, this is a soft sci-fi universe!"

Kindly address the rest of my post.

[Devgil]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Devgil wrote...

Kindly address the rest of my post.

No.

Why not? I have points in there that I have explained in detail how and why they will work. If you cannot address them, then I have proved that you are incorrect. The inability to disprove or deny my theories via logical argument and reasoning means that I am - until proven otherwise in the same way - right.

So is it a case of not being willing to address the rest of my post, or is it that you can't? I'm not trying to be flippant here, but I've fought you to deadlock and answered every single question you've asked. Either do the same for me, or you concede the point by implicit admission that you can't.

[Arijharn]

Devgil wrote...
But you have thus far ignored my dark energy weapon proposal. Do you have a response to that? As it could win the war just as handily as dark matter manipulation.

I have a rebuttal. We just don't have the time to do it, even providing that it's possible. The implication I got after playing Arrival is the immenient arrival of the Reapers, so I doubt we'd even have the Thanix on frigates and fighters in any appreciable amount.

Your invention isn't going to be completed inside a month or two, if ever. It certainly sounds as if it's outside current technological limitations at least which doesn't really sound like it'll make it practical and more just a flight of fancy. Theoretically it might sound like it works but it sounds like something that would require a lot of time and a lot of money to be thrown at it, which doesn't seem all that likely if we're fighting for our lives against the Reapers.

[Devgil]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Devgil wrote...

Why not? I have points in there that I have explained in detail how and why they will work.

You'd like to think that, but in skimming over it I remain unconvinced.

It's a nice theory, a nice dream, but it is completely lacking in substance.

It's too bad because it would make for one awesome super weapon to use against our rivals once the Reapers were dealt with.

In that case, explain what causes you to be unconvinced and I'll explain it to you. And I notice that you are still picking and choosing what you respond to. Dark energy and dark matter are both proven - in as much as anything can ever be proven - factors within the universe. We know to a degree how they work and we discover more every week.

And this wouldn't be an awesome super weapon. This would be a weapon capable of wiping the entire galaxy. Either of the two proposed weapons could do it, one would just take longer. And I do remember that you have stated that you never took physics beyond - or possibly in - high school. So I will try my best to explain, but a basic understanding of the workings of the universe will be required for you to understand what I tell you.

[Dave666]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Devgil wrote...

In that case, explain what causes you to be unconvinced and I'll explain it to you.

Give it your best shot.

How are you going to manipulate dark matter from half way across the galaxy? How are you going to detect all of it? How will you control it?

You can't just build a computer, plug it into the wall, and suddenly manipulate all the dark matter in the galaxy.

Saphra does have a point here Devgil, its the reason that I thought it was implausible, I was just more diplomatic. lol

[Devgil]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Devgil wrote...

In that case, explain what causes you to be unconvinced and I'll explain it to you.

Give it your best shot.

How are you going to manipulate dark matter from half way across the galaxy? How are you going to detect all of it? How will you control it?

You can't just build a computer, plug it into the wall, and suddenly manipulate all the dark matter in the galaxy.

You know, I just realised something. The relays themselves use dark energy or dark matter. Or both. Vigil's hack of the Citidal systems allows you full access to the Reaper relay network. So all I need at this point is a computer powerful enough to deal with all of this data. Enter the Geth and possibly a group of EDI level - or higher - AIs. So now I have complete control over the relay network, I get it to begin to send power my way. And at this point, I have more than enough power to start creating stable artifical singularities. At which point I start building a wormhole net and begin to drop black holes on the Reaper fleet through it. Sure, the screen will take hideous casualties as the wormhole sets up, but all I need is to get one singularity into the heart of the Reaper armada and they're done. Game, set, match.

[AntenDS]

There are too many questions left unanswered about the Reapers to make a solid theory on beating them. You either blast them too all hell or you fry their circuits.

Blowing up a relay near them isn't going to kill them off since they most likely will have someone guarding the relay or watching over it.

They could but haven't resorted to hacking the computers of enemy ships. They couldn't totally reprogram the Geth and they are superior in every right. They can be some what killed if their hull is too badly damaged.

[breakdown71289]

all i know is that where there's a will, there's a way.....and shepard will get the job done. If not, millions of bioware fans will be lost! lol.

Modifié par breakdown71289, 05 avril 2011 - 03:29 .