1062 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Seriously, it can't be done.

Only if you never figure out how... maybe if you keep destroying every Reaper thing you see...

Arrival's Paragon response to Harbinger was "Maybe we can't win this" while the others are more confident and never consider losing... who knows why...

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 06 avril 2011 - 12:25 .

[dill72]

But now we are more prepared then any other race was for the reapers if they were just trying to make more they would wait and not risk anymore of themselves becuase they have to know we right now can destroy a large amount of them. That is true that they didn't know what hit them but we are still more prepared then others were simply because we know of the reapers. okay not a large amount but at least 2 of them

Modifié par dill72, 06 avril 2011 - 12:28 .

[Nashiktal]

dill72 wrote...

But now we are more prepared then any other race was for the reapers if they were just trying to make more they would wait and not risk anymore of themselves becuase they have to know we right now can destroy a large amount of them. That is true that they didn't know what hit them but we are still more prepared then others were simply because we know of the reapers. okay not a large amount but at least 2 of them

Prepared or not, it won't matter when the reapers come. A single reaper decimates fifth fleet, one of two fleets stationed at Arcturus (the Alliance capital, which due to uncoordination with the writers is shared that honor with first fleet) and the citadel fleet. He was supported by geth, but as seen in the citadel itself Sovvy was more than durable enough to take on all those ships by himself if he wished.

What do you think a whole fleet will do to a "prepared" Alliance? The Thanix cannon is still VERY new. It would be fitted on prototype ships and the like, but due to simply how NEW it is it is very unlikely to be in widespread use yet. It is still unknown how effect a Thanix cannon will be against a reaper since we have not seen it used on a reaper itself. The collectors don't count, seeing how even an un-upgaded normandy can kill their CRUISER with relative ease, even if they take damage and lose a squadmate.

The answer so far seems to be fighters. Two fighters plus the normandy finished off sovvy, (Granted his ME fields were down), and sovvy did not seem to have anti-fighter capabilities. (Something that will probably be rectified in ME3, but we will see.) Fighters with Thanix cannons would be most effective it seems. However it has a few problems...

1. Thanix cannons are unlikely to be in ready supply to retrofit a large number of fighters.

2. Even though fighters have a relatively good chance of fighting reapers with numbers, the carriers themselves are still as vulnerable as ever. Especially because of how hollow they are.

3. This relies on the hope that the reapers ME fields can be taken out, either by the scarce Thanix  guns, or by other conventional means.

4. Fighters have no holding power. They would in no way be able to force a reaper to engage. Bug bites, man, bug bites. (Not that a dreadnought can slow a reaper down either...)

[sympathy4saren]

Agreed. It seems honestly impossible to defeat them. Us and the Turians got annihilated fighting Sovereign....ONE REAPER.

How we could defeat all of the Reapers, even with all galactic military prowess, is unimaginable. They would crush us all.

Our extinction is inevitable. They are the end to everything.

[dill72]

Sovy had a large geth fleet to back him up.
What about huge turrents on the ground of planets even if they only fire one shot it could do some damage plant about 1000 of them on earth and aim for like 10 reapers not saying it is a good idea but if we do that for like 20 planets then that is 200 reapers. One thing we don't know is how many reapers there really are could be 1000000 or only like 1500 which is still a lot but if each cycle they only make one or two reapers then there may be a chance i am not about to do the math of how many that would be since the approximate being of the galaxy but i am guessing a lot but not an inconcivable number

Modifié par dill72, 06 avril 2011 - 01:13 .

[Getorex]

Saphra Deden wrote...

How would the geth help?

Well, if logic ruled, the Geth are not like biologicals.  They are not bound to a livable planet, they do not have limits on reproduction.  They can "live" and replicate to unlimited extent (limited only by resources) in areas that are not frequented by biologicals (or Reapers) to great extent.  There would be a number of other aspects about being synthetic/computers that would also be of benefit but these don't seem to really apply in the ME universe.  

The Geth could provide a HUGE fleet and could replenish it to an extent far beyond what any organic race could manage.  

But that would require that logic of the "if this, then that" variety which doesn't really rule in a soft sci-fi game.

[Nashiktal]

dill72 wrote...

Sovy had a large geth fleet to back him up.
What about huge turrents on the ground of planets even if they only fire one shot it could do some damage plant about 1000 of them on earth and aim for like 10 reapers not saying it is a good idea but if we do that for like 20 planets then that is 200 reapers. One thing we don't know is how many reapers there really are could be 1000000 or only like 1500 which is still a lot but if each cycle they only make one or two reapers then there may be a chance i am not about to do the math of how many that would be since the approximate being of the galaxy but i am guessing a lot but not an inconcivable number

I already countered the Geth thing.

Also who is going to build these turrets? No one important enough in the military, or the Alliance government to have the power to start construction of these turrets believes shep about the reaper threat. Hackette is only one leader, and he has barely been able to protect shep from the rest of the Alliance wanting to hunt shep down.

And Anderson? *Spoilers about one of the books following.....*   He isn't even on the council anymore. He gets fired sometime after ME2. One of the few people powerful enough to help shep to prepare for the reapers, and he gets himself fired for his girlfriend.

Also you assume that those turrets would do anything to reapers to begin with. Collectors ARE NOT REAPERS. A single unupgraded normandy can defeat the collector ship, and it was (essentially) a more shiny carbon copy of the original normandy. Sovvy decimated all of the Alliance fleet, WITHOUT  the help of the Geth.

Furthermore this assumes the Alliance has the TIME and RESOURCES to build enough turrets to cover enough of the planet to actually provide protection for Earth.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 06 avril 2011 - 01:24 .

[dill72]

both arguments seem to have a lot of what if's in them

[Getorex]

Bluefuse wrote...

The only way to destroy a fleet of Reapers is by destroying mass relays with the system they're in. I wouldn't be surprised if the final mission had to do with luring the Reapers into a system altogether to blow them up with their own technology. Maybe to save the rest of the galaxy, we might have to face the choice of destroying our own system.

I still like this option (destroying mass relays).  Consider the discussion with Legion and the Geth.  The "true" Geth reject the offer from the Reapers.  They reject the Reaper tech and choose to go their own way.  ALL the organics, time after time after time for millions of years have developed to a point where they find a mass relay and then, poof, from that point onward they ALL become dependent upon Reaper tech without fully understanding that tech.  It is "found" tech that works for them.  They use it and develop from that point on with Reaper influence.  

Consider what the matriarch bartender on Illium tells Shepard if you talk her up.  She mentions recommending building our own mass relays.  Independently.  That is two separate game refs, somewhat cryptic and in passing, about cutting loose from the found tech.  

Then the Reapers.  They plan on organics becoming reliant/dependent on Reaper tech and in every single case for millions of cycles they do.  A trap.

The cleanest, most compatible-with-the-story means of defeating the Reapers is to destroy their means of trapping organics -and destroying their own means of traveling about to destroy the advanced races - the Reapers USE their mass relays too.  They do NOT just shut them down and attack with magic travel tech.  They shut down the relays, isolating systems, and use the relays themselves to go to those systems and wipe them out one by one.

Working well within the mythos of the story line, destroy the mass relays, isolate the Reapers and fight them on a more equal basis.  Develop "our" own mass relay tech, uncompromised by Reapers, and go off on our own future development trajectory, ala the "true" Geth.  

[dill72]

well said

Modifié par dill72, 06 avril 2011 - 01:36 .

[Nashiktal]

Building our own Mass Relays would be great. The problem is time. The reapers are in the galaxy now. there is precious little time to get any new tech pushed out before they arrive, and almost no one is pushing.

By the time the reapers alive it will be to late to do any R&D.

[Dave666]

Getorex wrote...

Bluefuse wrote...

The only way to destroy a fleet of Reapers is by destroying mass relays with the system they're in. I wouldn't be surprised if the final mission had to do with luring the Reapers into a system altogether to blow them up with their own technology. Maybe to save the rest of the galaxy, we might have to face the choice of destroying our own system.

I still like this option (destroying mass relays).  Consider the discussion with Legion and the Geth.  The "true" Geth reject the offer from the Reapers.  They reject the Reaper tech and choose to go their own way.  ALL the organics, time after time after time for millions of years have developed to a point where they find a mass relay and then, poof, from that point onward they ALL become dependent upon Reaper tech without fully understanding that tech.  It is "found" tech that works for them.  They use it and develop from that point on with Reaper influence.  

Consider what the matriarch bartender on Illium tells Shepard if you talk her up.  She mentions recommending building our own mass relays.  Independently.  That is two separate game refs, somewhat cryptic and in passing, about cutting loose from the found tech.  

Then the Reapers.  They plan on organics becoming reliant/dependent on Reaper tech and in every single case for millions of cycles they do.  A trap.

The cleanest, most compatible-with-the-story means of defeating the Reapers is to destroy their means of trapping organics -and destroying their own means of traveling about to destroy the advanced races - the Reapers USE their mass relays too.  They do NOT just shut them down and attack with magic travel tech.  They shut down the relays, isolating systems, and use the relays themselves to go to those systems and wipe them out one by one.

Working well within the mythos of the story line, destroy the mass relays, isolate the Reapers and fight them on a more equal basis.  Develop "our" own mass relay tech, uncompromised by Reapers, and go off on our own future development trajectory, ala the "true" Geth.  

Why destroy Relays when you can destroy Stars?

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/6892620/12#6918476

[Nashiktal]

dill72 wrote...

both arguments seem to have a lot of what if's in them

Any plan to fight the reapers right now is flawed, filled with uncertainty, and usually dangerous.

However you have to acknowledge the limits in production and political pull. Any construction will be irrelevant once the reapers arrive, and no one is pushing for a bunch of turrets to be built, even as the reapers are a few years from earth has we speak.

What I am trying to say, is that any plan to defeat the reapers that requires pre-planning is already blown out of the water. The reapers are essentially here, and any projects not completed/almost completed are unviable.

[Getorex]

Dave666 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Bluefuse wrote...

The only way to destroy a fleet of Reapers is by destroying mass relays with the system they're in. I wouldn't be surprised if the final mission had to do with luring the Reapers into a system altogether to blow them up with their own technology. Maybe to save the rest of the galaxy, we might have to face the choice of destroying our own system.

I still like this option (destroying mass relays).  Consider the discussion with Legion and the Geth.  The "true" Geth reject the offer from the Reapers.  They reject the Reaper tech and choose to go their own way.  ALL the organics, time after time after time for millions of years have developed to a point where they find a mass relay and then, poof, from that point onward they ALL become dependent upon Reaper tech without fully understanding that tech.  It is "found" tech that works for them.  They use it and develop from that point on with Reaper influence.  

Consider what the matriarch bartender on Illium tells Shepard if you talk her up.  She mentions recommending building our own mass relays.  Independently.  That is two separate game refs, somewhat cryptic and in passing, about cutting loose from the found tech.  

Then the Reapers.  They plan on organics becoming reliant/dependent on Reaper tech and in every single case for millions of cycles they do.  A trap.

The cleanest, most compatible-with-the-story means of defeating the Reapers is to destroy their means of trapping organics -and destroying their own means of traveling about to destroy the advanced races - the Reapers USE their mass relays too.  They do NOT just shut them down and attack with magic travel tech.  They shut down the relays, isolating systems, and use the relays themselves to go to those systems and wipe them out one by one.

Working well within the mythos of the story line, destroy the mass relays, isolate the Reapers and fight them on a more equal basis.  Develop "our" own mass relay tech, uncompromised by Reapers, and go off on our own future development trajectory, ala the "true" Geth.  

Why destroy Relays when you can destroy Stars?

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/6892620/12#6918476

While I don't go for stars going nova (supernova is more accurate in this case) at FTL speeds, dark energy or not, I do assume that the OTHER cryptically referenced "dark energy" stuff in ME2 must come to play some role (perhaps as another has suggested, part of an incomplete Prothean weapon - they failed to develop it, and failed to do so in time to use it).  There are a couple such references in the game to mysterious dark energy - Tali's recruitment mission was the most overt, though it was still cryptic.  This cannot be just a dick dangling in space with no purpose.  It likely has SOME role to play in ME3.  So, if not destroying Mass Relays then I would expect the mystery of this dark energy to be answered, lead to a means/weapon for fighting/defeating the Reapers, and bring a close to the Big Story behind the story - leaving just boring sh*t to deal with henceforth (in comparison) so Shepard will retire.  

How do you top discovering, fighting, and defeating THE big bad boys of virtually all history of the galaxy?  You can't.  You quit.  You retire.  You nail Tali (or Ash or Liara) and make that your future purpose...in retirement.  You hang out in bars and ramble on about "back in the day..." and "you damn kids have it so easy these days..."

My own preference would be that the Reapers NOT be defeated as in destroyed, just successfully fought off/fought back to dark space.  That would leave the threat that they will come back at some future point so everyone needs to really get working on developing tech to stop them cold at some future point.  Sure, there wont be a ME4, 5, 6 with Reapers in it but I like the idea of the game ending but the story/struggle going on (in the imagination).

Modifié par Getorex, 06 avril 2011 - 01:57 .

[Dave666]

Getorex wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Bluefuse wrote...

The only way to destroy a fleet of Reapers is by destroying mass relays with the system they're in. I wouldn't be surprised if the final mission had to do with luring the Reapers into a system altogether to blow them up with their own technology. Maybe to save the rest of the galaxy, we might have to face the choice of destroying our own system.

I still like this option (destroying mass relays).  Consider the discussion with Legion and the Geth.  The "true" Geth reject the offer from the Reapers.  They reject the Reaper tech and choose to go their own way.  ALL the organics, time after time after time for millions of years have developed to a point where they find a mass relay and then, poof, from that point onward they ALL become dependent upon Reaper tech without fully understanding that tech.  It is "found" tech that works for them.  They use it and develop from that point on with Reaper influence.  

Consider what the matriarch bartender on Illium tells Shepard if you talk her up.  She mentions recommending building our own mass relays.  Independently.  That is two separate game refs, somewhat cryptic and in passing, about cutting loose from the found tech.  

Then the Reapers.  They plan on organics becoming reliant/dependent on Reaper tech and in every single case for millions of cycles they do.  A trap.

The cleanest, most compatible-with-the-story means of defeating the Reapers is to destroy their means of trapping organics -and destroying their own means of traveling about to destroy the advanced races - the Reapers USE their mass relays too.  They do NOT just shut them down and attack with magic travel tech.  They shut down the relays, isolating systems, and use the relays themselves to go to those systems and wipe them out one by one.

Working well within the mythos of the story line, destroy the mass relays, isolate the Reapers and fight them on a more equal basis.  Develop "our" own mass relay tech, uncompromised by Reapers, and go off on our own future development trajectory, ala the "true" Geth.  

Why destroy Relays when you can destroy Stars?

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/6892620/12#6918476

While I don't go for stars going nova (supernova is more accurate in this case) at FTL speeds, dark energy or not, I do assume that the OTHER cryptically referenced "dark energy" stuff in ME2 must come to play some role (perhaps as another has suggested, part of an incomplete Prothean weapon - they failed to develop it, and failed to do so in time to use it).  There are a couple such references in the game to mysterious dark energy - Tali's recruitment mission was the most overt, though it was still cryptic.  This cannot be just a dick dangling in space with no purpose.  It likely has SOME role to play in ME3.  So, if not destroying Mass Relays then I would expect the mystery of this dark energy to be answered, lead to a means/weapon for fighting/defeating the Reapers, and bring a close to the Big Story behind the story - leaving just boring sh*t to deal with henceforth (in comparison) so Shepard will retire.  

How do you top discovering, fighting, and defeating THE big bad boys of virtually all history of the galaxy?  You can't.  You quit.  You retire.  You nail Tali (or Ash or Liara) and make that your future purpose...in retirement.  You hang out in bars and ramble on about "back in the day..." and "you damn kids have it so easy these days..."

Agreed, and you made me laugh, thank you.  It is plausible mind. 

[Almostfaceman]

Dave666 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Bluefuse wrote...

The only way to destroy a fleet of Reapers is by destroying mass relays with the system they're in. I wouldn't be surprised if the final mission had to do with luring the Reapers into a system altogether to blow them up with their own technology. Maybe to save the rest of the galaxy, we might have to face the choice of destroying our own system.

I still like this option (destroying mass relays).  Consider the discussion with Legion and the Geth.  The "true" Geth reject the offer from the Reapers.  They reject the Reaper tech and choose to go their own way.  ALL the organics, time after time after time for millions of years have developed to a point where they find a mass relay and then, poof, from that point onward they ALL become dependent upon Reaper tech without fully understanding that tech.  It is "found" tech that works for them.  They use it and develop from that point on with Reaper influence.  

Consider what the matriarch bartender on Illium tells Shepard if you talk her up.  She mentions recommending building our own mass relays.  Independently.  That is two separate game refs, somewhat cryptic and in passing, about cutting loose from the found tech.  

Then the Reapers.  They plan on organics becoming reliant/dependent on Reaper tech and in every single case for millions of cycles they do.  A trap.

The cleanest, most compatible-with-the-story means of defeating the Reapers is to destroy their means of trapping organics -and destroying their own means of traveling about to destroy the advanced races - the Reapers USE their mass relays too.  They do NOT just shut them down and attack with magic travel tech.  They shut down the relays, isolating systems, and use the relays themselves to go to those systems and wipe them out one by one.

Working well within the mythos of the story line, destroy the mass relays, isolate the Reapers and fight them on a more equal basis.  Develop "our" own mass relay tech, uncompromised by Reapers, and go off on our own future development trajectory, ala the "true" Geth.  

Why destroy Relays when you can destroy Stars?

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/6892620/12#6918476

I don't think we need to destroy anything - simply learn the controls on the Citadel for the Mass Relays (we have plenty of time to do so) and then set up the relays to detect Reapers and only, um, "teleport" only a part of the Reaper mass.  Instant dead Reapers.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 06 avril 2011 - 01:58 .

[Dave666]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Bluefuse wrote...

The only way to destroy a fleet of Reapers is by destroying mass relays with the system they're in. I wouldn't be surprised if the final mission had to do with luring the Reapers into a system altogether to blow them up with their own technology. Maybe to save the rest of the galaxy, we might have to face the choice of destroying our own system.

I still like this option (destroying mass relays).  Consider the discussion with Legion and the Geth.  The "true" Geth reject the offer from the Reapers.  They reject the Reaper tech and choose to go their own way.  ALL the organics, time after time after time for millions of years have developed to a point where they find a mass relay and then, poof, from that point onward they ALL become dependent upon Reaper tech without fully understanding that tech.  It is "found" tech that works for them.  They use it and develop from that point on with Reaper influence.  

Consider what the matriarch bartender on Illium tells Shepard if you talk her up.  She mentions recommending building our own mass relays.  Independently.  That is two separate game refs, somewhat cryptic and in passing, about cutting loose from the found tech.  

Then the Reapers.  They plan on organics becoming reliant/dependent on Reaper tech and in every single case for millions of cycles they do.  A trap.

The cleanest, most compatible-with-the-story means of defeating the Reapers is to destroy their means of trapping organics -and destroying their own means of traveling about to destroy the advanced races - the Reapers USE their mass relays too.  They do NOT just shut them down and attack with magic travel tech.  They shut down the relays, isolating systems, and use the relays themselves to go to those systems and wipe them out one by one.

Working well within the mythos of the story line, destroy the mass relays, isolate the Reapers and fight them on a more equal basis.  Develop "our" own mass relay tech, uncompromised by Reapers, and go off on our own future development trajectory, ala the "true" Geth.  

Why destroy Relays when you can destroy Stars?

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/6892620/12#6918476

I don't think we need to destroy anything - simply learn the controls on the Citadel for the Mass Relays (we have plenty of time to do so) and then set up the relays to detect Reapers and only, um, "teleport" a part of the mass.  Instant dead Reapers.

If the Relays work by teleporting and its not an all or nothing deal then this might be plausible also, though I am skeptical mind.  Definately not saying it couldn't work though.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Hurl a big space rock into a Mass Relay as they travel through.

[Getorex]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Bluefuse wrote...

The only way to destroy a fleet of Reapers is by destroying mass relays with the system they're in. I wouldn't be surprised if the final mission had to do with luring the Reapers into a system altogether to blow them up with their own technology. Maybe to save the rest of the galaxy, we might have to face the choice of destroying our own system.

I still like this option (destroying mass relays).  Consider the discussion with Legion and the Geth.  The "true" Geth reject the offer from the Reapers.  They reject the Reaper tech and choose to go their own way.  ALL the organics, time after time after time for millions of years have developed to a point where they find a mass relay and then, poof, from that point onward they ALL become dependent upon Reaper tech without fully understanding that tech.  It is "found" tech that works for them.  They use it and develop from that point on with Reaper influence.  

[blah blah blah]

Why destroy Relays when you can destroy Stars?

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/6892620/12#6918476

I don't think we need to destroy anything - simply learn the controls on the Citadel for the Mass Relays (we have plenty of time to do so) and then set up the relays to detect Reapers and only, um, "teleport" only a part of the Reaper mass.  Instant dead Reapers.

Well...I would simply program them to shoot them right back out into dark space (or you could defeat them by simply sending them to empty systems.  Every time they try to use a Mass Relay to get anywhere with a creamy center (advanced race systems) they get sent instead to BF Egypt locations with no one there.  They'll get the hint and vamoose (after some epic bouts of cussing).

Modifié par Getorex, 06 avril 2011 - 02:03 .

[Almostfaceman]

Dave666 wrote...

If the Relays work by teleporting and its not an all or nothing deal then this might be plausible also, though I am skeptical mind.  Definately not saying it couldn't work though.

Check out the codex the mass of what's being "corridored" or "teleported" has to be calculated - I postulate just screwing with that on the receiving end via the Citadel.  Citadel control of the mass relays is definitely worth investigating methinks.

[Almostfaceman]

Getorex wrote...

Well...I would simply program them to shoot them right back out into dark space (or you could defeat them by simply sending them to empty systems.  Every time they try to use a Mass Relay to get anywhere with a creamy center (advanced race systems) they get sent instead to BF Egypt locations with no one there.  They'll get the hint and vamoose (after some epic bouts of cussing).

They may vamoose but I'd rather try and destroy them and not have to worry about them coming back.  They can always regular-ftl to a creamy centered system and then that would suck if we're not expecting them.

[Dave666]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

If the Relays work by teleporting and its not an all or nothing deal then this might be plausible also, though I am skeptical mind.  Definately not saying it couldn't work though.

Check out the codex the mass of what's being "corridored" or "teleported" has to be calculated - I postulate just screwing with that on the receiving end via the Citadel.  Citadel control of the mass relays is definitely worth investigating methinks.

I still have serious doubts about the whole teleportation thing, however your idea of screwing with the mass calculations is a very good one!

[Getorex]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Well...I would simply program them to shoot them right back out into dark space (or you could defeat them by simply sending them to empty systems.  Every time they try to use a Mass Relay to get anywhere with a creamy center (advanced race systems) they get sent instead to BF Egypt locations with no one there.  They'll get the hint and vamoose (after some epic bouts of cussing).

They may vamoose but I'd rather try and destroy them and not have to worry about them coming back.  They can always regular-ftl to a creamy centered system and then that would suck if we're not expecting them.

Well, I edited my previous post to indicate my own personal preference: that the Reapers NOT be defeated permanently, not destroyed, but simply fought back for now (for some indefinite period likely to be counted in terms of a few thousand years at best).  I don't want the game/story to simply end with the defeat of the biggest, baddest bad guys of all time.  I'd prefer to have the story end with a future struggle ensured, with all races working together to develop defenses and tech in prep for this fairly distant future get together.  Basically, I'd like the story to end FOR NOW but leave it continuing in the imagination.  Without the huge (and face it, given the storyline and the role the Reapers have played for many millions of years of galactic history it is HUGE) obstacle to overcome, without that threat being out there like a boogyman who might come back bigger and badder, nothing else compares.  So leave them "out there" and the story goes on...

[sympathy4saren]

You're right. Maybe we can't win this. But we are going to fight them anyway. No matter how insignificant we may be. We will fight, we will sacrifice and we will find a way. That's what humans do.