1062 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

And to add:
The evidence suggests that I rather assume ZSaren's death incapacitated Sovereign until proven otherwise, than to assume it is a coincidence until proven otherwise.

Which evidence, other than the coincidence itself? That's unscientific, to say the least.

It is not, it's statistics and probability. If you have no information about when or even if a certain event (crashing shields) would have occured without additional intervention, and it does occur exactly at the time of the one additional intervention, then it is plausible to assume that the events are connected until proven otherwise. Anything else is equal to a conspiracy theory in impact.

Give me the Fifth Fleet's sensor data about Sovereign's shield and then we can talk again.

[Nashiktal]

I remember one of the devs confirming they were connected, however I have no link to prove this.

[Zulu_DFA]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

And to add:
The evidence suggests that I rather assume ZSaren's death incapacitated Sovereign until proven otherwise, than to assume it is a coincidence until proven otherwise.

Which evidence, other than the coincidence itself? That's unscientific, to say the least.

It is not, it's statistics and probability.

Actually statistics and probability deal with events reaccuring multiple times. Zombie-Saren's death and Sovereign's destruction coincidence occured only once. There is no statistic to be drawn from it.

Ieldra2 wrote...

If you have no information about when or even if a certain event (crashing shields) would have occured without additional intervention, and it does occur exactly at the time of the one additional intervention, then it is plausible

No it's not.

Ieldra2 wrote...

to assume that the events are connected until proven otherwise.

You can, of course propose a hypothesis, but you need at least something to support that. Until you have it, you're jumping to conclusiions, no less.

Ieldra2 wrote...

Anything else is equal to a conspiracy theory in impact.

Give me the Fifth Fleet's sensor data about Sovereign's shield and then we can talk again.

Is it going to be a conspiracy theory, if I tell you that maybe there was a connection, but it actually worked the other way around: the 5th Fleet knocked out Sovereign, and it naturally "released control" of Zombie-Saren? It'd make a lot more sense anyway, than the assumption that the Reapers are morons and tend to fully "upload" themselves to their avatars so that the meatbags could kill them more easily...

Nevermind the Zombie-Saren's health bar, that's the "gameplay vs. story segregation" for  you.

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 07 avril 2011 - 08:45 .

[MadCat221]

The Reapers will be defeated.

How do I know this?

Because the Mass Effect franchise would be cauterized and dead if the Reapers wiped out Humanity and all its fellow starfaring sapient races.

Very meta, I know.

Modifié par MadCat221, 07 avril 2011 - 08:40 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Nashiktal wrote...

I remember one of the devs confirming they were connected, however I have no link to prove this.

Nobody has a link to this, because it's a false rumor.

[Greysturm]

I dont know if anyone has said this before since i have only read half the thread but if i might add or restate a few points that are key in bioware presented oportunities to defeat the reapers.

1) A weapon existed that one shotted a reaper (hence we got the iff), on the impact analysis data it concludes that it was some sort of mass acelerator weapon which in theory it implies that a projectile with enough mass and traveling at some level of FTL can efectively kill a reaper on one strike. Considering that we might not reproduce the technology in time there is always as revealed in cerberus daily news the possibility of doing the same thing with a dreadnought which using the mechanics of mass effect fields could easily be accelerated to ftl speeds and change into supersolid which with the right targeting solution would efectively be a way to defeat the reapers reminiscent of world war 2 kamikazes and if it allows us to gain enough time to refine a similar weapon that costs less. This would then become a war of atrition based mainly in the ability to adapt between sentient life attacks and reaper countermeasueres.

2) The dark energy theme would in theory allows us to age stars at will which makes the lure then supernova angle possible although the exact levels of the lure and sacrifice would have to be debated. But considering the overconfidence presented by the reapers so far i dont see a problem there.

3) The geth as non organic life are not particularly planned for by the reapers, and if you chose to ,in lack of a better term, to "brainwash" the heretics, we might have an insight into technology and maybee plans and other information from sovereign. Also the fact that isolating themselves has allowed them to develop on a completely different path than the citadel races means they could have a weapon or solution available.

4) In case that everything failed one of the final oficial cerberus daily news discovered a civilization that lived as data on a computer (dont remember the details exactly but you get the gist) and had the means of transfering new conscience´s inside and outside if we could develop a decent energy source we could escape the harvesting and return into our cryogenicaly frozen bodies and prepare to stop the next cycle.

Modifié par Greysturm, 09 avril 2011 - 12:41 .

[Greysturm]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Greysturm wrote...

1) A weapon existed that one shotted a reaper (hence we got the iff), on the impact analysis data it concludes that it was some sort of mass acelerator weapon which in theory it implies that a projectile with enough mass and traveling at some level of FTL can efectively kill a reaper on one strike.

No ****. This is not some great revelation. A giant mass accelerator doesn't help us much. It is not exotic technology. It is just current technology scaled up.

That doesnt mean it would not be effective

Modifié par Greysturm, 09 avril 2011 - 12:38 .

[Greysturm]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Greysturm wrote...

That doesnt mean it would not be effective

To be effective you'd need to build dozens of these things.

Again if that ´s viable then the whole kamikaze dreadnaught is viable and by definition we have a fleet that can kill one reaper for every dreadnaught and maybee even cruiser it has. Without metioning that if we can refine the IFF technology to give us more precise mass relay jumps we could do it with objects with less mass.

Modifié par Greysturm, 09 avril 2011 - 12:45 .

[Ice Cold J]

Nashiktal wrote...

Are you kidding me? Eight cruisers is a terrible loss of manpower and ships. You know how long it will take to replace those cruiser? Not in time for the reaper arrival. 

Consider this. One reaper, all but impervious to several cruisers fire (those ships were origionally supposed to be dreadnoughts in the story, there was intercommunication problems though and they ended up cruisers. there are more reasons why for fluff and development reasons, but that could be an entire post within itself.) plus the Destiny Ascension killed eight cruisers without even slowing down.

What would happen if that same reaper didn't need to hunker down in that one spot? The reapers are just as fast as the normandy, and twice as manuervable. (Source, citadel battle cutscene, Joker's comments on Virmire.) They also have the firepower to kill cruisers in a single shot.

So should we use dreadnoughts? Well according to fluff, dreads become near useless in "knife fight" range. I.E, the range in which the geth fleet engaged the Destiny Ascension. Did you see the speed in which that reaper rammed that Turian vessel? A fleet of reapers with that speed could zoom right past any ship it pleases and take out the bigger targets.

The only real weakness we have seen so far, (Aside from plot stupidity) is when their mass effect core is disrupted. This has caused sovvy to be vulnerable to fifth fleet, and caused the "dead" reaper to lose its ability to maintain orbit and shields.

solution? We need to somehow mess with their ME cores.

How? No idea.

It's a big loss, but nothing that can't be replaced.

Yes, Sovereign did some major damage... WITH THE GETH FLEET AT HIS SIDE!!! Sovereign did not single-handedly take the Citadel. There were many Geth ships also in that battle opposing the Citadel.

OK then... have the cruisers engage the Reapers at close range and let the dreadnaughts try to bomb them from range.

It also seems as though the Reapers aren't too quick to fire or that accurate either, so let's take that into account as well.

Sovereign wasn't destroyed because his ME core was exposed. His shields were taken down (how, is a nother argument altogether) and the fifth fleet took advantage.

How would we mess with their ME cores? Suggestions are boarding teams and/or EMP blasts (which would be highly plausible if they're fighting in Earth's orbit, since we wouldn't have to rely on ships to battle them and not have to worry about crippling our own forces.

Numbers-wise, we're a match for the Reaper fleet. Tactics-wise is up to wiser generals and admirals than me to figure out.

[Krimson_Wolf]

If we are going to die, then I'm going out fighting!

[Greysturm]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Greysturm wrote...

Again if that ´s viable then the whole kamikaze dreadnaught is viable and by definition we have a fleet that can kill one reaper for every dreadnaught and maybee even cruiser it has. Without metioning that if we can refine the IFF technology to give us more precise mass relay jumps we could do it with objects with less mass.

How are you going to manufacture all of these things? It's going to take time, money, and resources. Can you imagine how much element zero you'd need?

It might be worth trying, but this is something we probably don't have the time to do anyway.

It wouldn't last forever either. Once you started picking up Reapers they could easily trace the shots back to your location.

Youll manufacture them the only way you can, once the reapers are there the whole galaxy will go into war economy and for time we can always destroy the mass relays to sectors they have taken giving us time to produce more, the resources were already discovered in mass effect in the mako sidequest at least for the alliance if we need more the shadow broker  has a database of planets rich in minerals. For luck we have a lot of them  built which would allow us to punt a big dent on the reaper forces as if we play our card tight we could not only use every council species fleet but even a big chunk of the quarian flotilla.

They might follow us but we can always booby trap the relays both by preparing to scuttle them or simply by leaving a whole  lot of scrap near them which again going by cerberus daily news its a great danger to anyone who uses them.

Modifié par Greysturm, 10 avril 2011 - 02:04 .

[dill72]

One thing we are not really considering is evolution. I am not sure on this but the protheans were the only really powerful beingings in the galaxy when they were attacked so we do have a advantage. maybe the reapers are not exactly prepared to deal with the diversity of life in the galaxy which may or may not give us an advantage. just another thought.

[Dave666]

dill72 wrote...

One thing we are not really considering is evolution. I am not sure on this but the protheans were the only really powerful beingings in the galaxy when they were attacked so we do have a advantage. maybe the reapers are not exactly prepared to deal with the diversity of life in the galaxy which may or may not give us an advantage. just another thought.

Doubtful, there have been at least 740 Reaper Cycles.

[Empiro]

I think I might have said this already, but I'll just say again that I think that most Reaper vessels will not be nearly as powerful as Sovereign. Sovereign had a very special and important task, so it makes sense that you'd leave one of your best and most powerful ships to take care of it.

[Dave666]

Empiro wrote...

I think I might have said this already, but I'll just say again that I think that most Reaper vessels will not be nearly as powerful as Sovereign. Sovereign had a very special and important task, so it makes sense that you'd leave one of your best and most powerful ships to take care of it.

I hope to god Bioware doesn't do that. It would be such a let down.  'Ooo the big scary Reapers...pew pew...oh, was that it?  I thought they were much tougher than that.  Oh well.  Next problem?'

Modifié par Dave666, 17 avril 2011 - 03:36 .

[Nashiktal]

Sovvy did plenty of damage without the geth fleet. He decimated fifth fleet all by himself.

Not only did he do it by himself, he was sitting down unable to move. We already know reapers (which are bigger than most dreadnoughts) are able to make turns that would shear the normandy in half. (A ship that was pretty freaking maneuverable) So a single reaper which is able to decimate fifth fleet without help while handicapped....

Makes you wonder what a fleet of unhandicapped reapers will be able to do.

[Nerdage]

I'm really curious as to how we'll be able to defeat the reapers, something pretty contrived I'm guessing, but I have almost no doubt we'll be able to somehow, I mean how often in Mass Effect have we been put in a position where we can't win? There's Virmire and the collector base and that's more or less it, and you really have to be trying to get the collector base wrong.

Modifié par nerdage, 17 avril 2011 - 03:53 .

[Nashiktal]

Oh there is no doubt we will win, at least in the short term. The question we are asking though is how. We don't want an independence day or war of the worlds ending here.

[Empiro]

Dave666 wrote...

Empiro wrote...

I think I might have said this already, but I'll just say again that I think that most Reaper vessels will not be nearly as powerful as Sovereign. Sovereign had a very special and important task, so it makes sense that you'd leave one of your best and most powerful ships to take care of it.

I hope to god Bioware doesn't do that. It would be such a let down.  'Ooo the big scary Reapers...pew pew...oh, was that it?  I thought they were much tougher than that.  Oh well.  Next problem?'

The alternative would be some sort of Deus Ex Machina, which is equally disappointing.

I'm not saying they're all pushovers, but that they're not quite as tough as Sovereign, but there's a ton of them. You have a fighting chance if you can get all the races in the galaxy working together.

[Nashiktal]

I still find that a lane way to go. Build up the reapers to be near godlike, and all you have to is get a bunch of ships to win?

I think I prefer the virus.

[Black_Arrow141]

Sovereign and Harbinger didn't give all those 'end of humanity' speeches for no reason.. they aren't gonna back down.

The Reapers will fight to the bitter end.