1062 réponses à ce sujet

[Moiaussi]

Joshua N7 wrote...

“You're not even alive… not really. You're just a machine, and machines can be broken.”

Commander Shepard

As someone who has been completely rebuilt from whatever remained of his chassis, I am not not sure Shepard has as much of a point there as he thought he did.

[Clonedzero]

i just thought of something.
you think perhaps the reapers manually flying to the galaxy rather than hopping a ride on a relay would eat up a massive chunk of their power reserves? thus weaker shields / weapons?

[Joshua N7]

Clonedzero wrote...

i just thought of something.
you think perhaps the reapers manually flying to the galaxy rather than hopping a ride on a relay would eat up a massive chunk of their power reserves? thus weaker shields / weapons?

I think they already have to. The Alpha Relay that Shepard destroyed was their ticket to Earth, with it gone...again, I'm not sure, but you bring up a good point!

[bc525]

Impossible? Meaning there are no circumstances, no options, no events where the Reapers can be defeated? I don't buy that at all. To use the analogy "if it bleeds we can kill it" .... if a Reaper can be destroyed (is not invincible) then the Reapers can be defeated. Someway, somehow.

To argue that it's "impossible" to defeat them is too biased, too narrow minded. Yep, they can run away and hide. The Reapers can use the "run-away" tactic many, many times if they need, but are we assuming they have infinite resources? Do they require 50,000 years to somehow recharge for another attack? Again, the Reapers aren't immortal, they can be "killed" (for lack of a better word).

Defeating the Reapers (to me) isn't total and complete destruction of every single Reaper, it's forcing them back into Dark Space. Making them run and hide. No species has done that yet to them, but to me it's certainly possible that it could happen this time around.

[HunterX6]

Clonedzero wrote...

i just thought of something.
you think perhaps the reapers manually flying to the galaxy rather than hopping a ride on a relay would eat up a massive chunk of their power reserves? thus weaker shields / weapons?

thats true

[Moiaussi]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Would there be some reason they couldn't "recharge" once they reached the galaxy? Nothing says they have to arrive in a system we have even mapped.

Nothing says they had to arrive via the Alpha relay... except that they did.

[AngelicMachinery]

Shepard will do the impossible, see the invisible, ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH.

[bc525]

So it is actually possible to defeat the Reapers, but we need a more practical outline to victory. Hmmm, okay let's think here ....

Earth isn't exactly the "hub" for the civilized galaxy, that would be the Citadel. The Reapers tried (and failed) taking the Citadel away from the current intelligent races of the galaxy, and therefore a central communication/coordination point is still intact. That's a significant victory for the good guys already.

Communication is key. According to the Protheans, the Reapers knocked out the central communications of their enemies and then systematically destroyed the isolated worlds one by one. Why not do the same to the Reapers? Block or jam their communications within their "fleet"? Jamming or intercepting your enemy's communication would provide a huge advantage. The Reapers couldn't coordinate attacks, couldn't act as a group, they would just be a large group of individual "ships".

EMP's near each Reaper might work on their communications, or it might be more practical to feed 'false' information into their communications. I'm sure there are options along the lines of misinformation. After all, coordinating a fleet the size of the Reapers must be considered their weakness, and the Reapers have already shown that they do make mistakes and aren't all that agile when a plan breaks down.

Obviously I'm shooting from the hip here and haven't exactly worked out every nut and bolt to defeating the Reapers, but I'll defer to the guys and gals at BioWare that they've got some great ideas. My central kick here is to out-think the Reapers rather than out-gun them.

[Warlock Adam]

I don't know if I'd say it's impossible, because it is Bioware's video game. They can easily shoehorn a deus ex machina or a Prothean superweapon in at the last second, because they can do whatever they want. Everyone thought that the Protheans were gone after ME1, after all, but now we all know that's not the case. Established fact changes according to the design of its developers--that is, unless they had the changes in place from the beginning and nobody knew it. So no, not impossible: if Bioware wants Shepard to win he'll win.

Now, using only the knowledge we have at our disposal, and assuming a galactic armada is all we'll get? I'd say it's pretty darn close to impossible, except for two things: 1) the Collector base research (insight into destroying Reapers, or a fleet of allied Reapers) and 2) the sheer size of the galaxy. There are so many species, ships, and planets out there that Shepard hasn't encountered yet. One Alliance fleet and part of the Citadel fleet took out Sovereign, the Reaper vanguard, so a giant united fleet (with many sacrifices and losses) might just be enough.

Granted I haven't read all 33 pages of the thread, so I could just be retreading what everyone else has said

[Nashiktal]

@Warlock

You didn't read the thread did you? We KNOW we will win because its a video game, thats not the point of the thread.

[bc525]

Saphra, always with you it cannot be done (sorry, I just had to use that great SW quote there).

Anyways, how are we knowing the Reapers use quantum entanglement? And oh by the way, what the heck is quantum entanglement? Is it in the codex? It sounds like the Reapers might be a hive type consciousness, ala the bugs in the book 'Starship Troopers' by Robert Heinlen where they are telepathically interconnected to one another. In the book's case the bugs' communication system was used against them (i.e. a "brain bug" was captured) which ultimately turned the war in the good guys' favor. That falls in line with the 'false' information or intercepting communication strategies against the Reapers.

Perhaps there are leader Reapers that are more critical that could be concentrated upon by a large number of Alliance vessels. Knocking out some key Reapers might severely hurt their fleet or even force them to retreat. Or to copy the book, capturing and utilizing a leader Reaper.

How about EMP's inside a Reaper, in a critical and vulnerable location. Or even a nuclear device inside a Reaper. Planting it would require a commando style mission, and dangit that just sounds like fun to me, sign my Shepard up for that. Running around inside a Reaper like Sovereign, who knows what could be lurking in there.

As Warlock Adam points out, if the galaxy's races do in fact unite, that's some very serious numbers to bring against the Reaper fleet. I wouldn't think that's the most creative plan to follow, but hey some sort of Battlefield Earth might actually favor the widespread galaxy races converging on that one location. Victory through a contained battlefield and sheer numbers.

[Nashiktal]

Numbers against the reapers? That might have worked against a handful of reapers... But as its been repeated multiple times one reaper decimated two fleets, and that reaper was HANDICAPPED.

We know that reapers are more maneuverable than the Normandy. (I saw that ship make a turn that would shear the normandy in half sir! Paraphrase of joker to shep)

We know that reapers can take the full brunt of a fleets firepower without slowing, or any pause in retaliation.

We know that reapers can one shot cruisers. (Which were supposed to be dreads originally, they only changed to cruisers because of miscommunication between modelers and story writers)

We know reapers are very fast. (Just look at sovvy ramming that Turian ship without slowing)

We know reapers have legions of husks and indoctrinated slaves on their side.

We know reapers know the insides and out of the relays, so they may be able to do things to them that we do not yet know of.

[bc525]

Nashiktal, Reapers are intimidating enemies, no doubts there.

Do we know Reapers have infinite ammunition? Do we know Reapers have an infinite energy/power supply? There is a finite number of Reapers, correct? I haven't seen anything that suggests they replenish their numbers during a battle.

And I'm not suggesting simply blindly attacking a Reaper such as Sovereign head-on. This can't be a fair fight, the galaxy's races have to fight dirty, cheat, steal, lie, whatever. Tactics wins this fight not brute strength, but you've got to admit that if the galaxy's races all united ... that's a dang good sized fighting force.

Again, I lean more to the information warfare style against them. Husks are foot soldiers, and ultimately defeating Reapers probably isn't really an infantry style battle. So husks make for good firefights, but ultimately they don't pack a huge hit. Now, indoctrination that's a scary talent the Reapers have that must be respected.

Modifié par bc525, 03 juin 2011 - 09:24 .

[Nashiktal]

Ah but if we don't take care of the husks, how will we defend the important wars that support our infastructure? Our agri worlds, or manufacturing, everything.

As saphra has pointed out before, while we rely upon our stationary and vulnerable societies, the reapers are not. If the reapers run low on supplies, they can reap the lesser colonies.

If we run low on supplies? We hope our supply chain hasn't been broken.

[Moiaussi]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Nothing says they had to arrive via the Alpha relay... except that they did.

Something that apparently works to their advantage. It seems to me that if they are ready to start a war already then they aren't running out of energy.

Unless they are starting the war because they are low on energy or some other commodity. And the suggestion isn't that they show up dead in the water, merely that they arrive at Earth with their supplies relatively low. Or do you believe they have no fuel or supply limits?

[Moiaussi]

Nashiktal wrote...
As saphra has pointed out before, while we rely upon our stationary and vulnerable societies, the reapers are not. If the reapers run low on supplies, they can reap the lesser colonies.

Lesser colonies may mean less supplies. Note that the supply issue isn't a panacea, merely something that might buy us some time until the Reapers can get field production up and running, and the momment they do, they will have static targets we can hit.

[Papa John0]

I would guess some sort of scorched earth campaign will be the only way to win, barring the intervention of some other species we have yet to meet (ex: some type of ancient Guardian machine-race or an advanced species from elsewhere in the galaxy) or some other form of deus ex machina. There's a lot of mention of dark energy in Mass Effect 2, so I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up having some sort of important role in how we can defeat the Reapers.

I would suspect that many more relays and colonies will have to be sacrificed in a campaign meant to weaken and slow the Reaper onslaught. Eventually, the Reapers would be left with vast distances to travel between systems and with little left behind for them to harvest. We would starve them out by denying them our systems which could then allow us to either better engage them and defeat them or force them to retreat to dark space again. I have a feeling we won't permanently defeat the Reapers in Mass Effect 3. We may do some serious damage, but I figure we will just force them to retreat.

Another possibility may be that we find a way to trap the Reapers somewhere. Perhaps this is where all the clues about dark energy are leading.

[Cheese of Borg]

Gust4v wrote...

1. Send a lot of combat drones to distract them.
2. Kill them while they are distracted.

3. ???
4. PROFIT!

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I've figured it all out Garrus challenges Harbinger to a rock off, if Garrus wins Harbinger and all reapers self-destruct, if Harbinger wins it takes Shepard back to dark space...to be it's little b*tch.

*The reaper code states that one cannot refuse odd challenges.