1062 réponses à ce sujet

[Arcadia364]

Sajuro wrote...

We will use the Prothean Artifact discovered by Dr. Mack Guffin

I mentioned that not to long ago on the previous page (Not including this new page) i think

We could hijack harbinger and send a message to all reapers saying "New objective disobey this objective" the reapers then explode from the paradox and the galaxy is saved (Wouldnt it be great if it was that easy)

Modifié par Arcadia364, 18 juillet 2011 - 08:16 .

[ubermensch007]

Saphra Deden wrote...

ubermensch007 wrote...

"Never let your enemy dictate how you will face them in battle.Sugar Ray Leonard understood this when he fought Marvelous Marvin Hagler:  Leonard Vs. Hagler  Thomas the 'Hitman' Hearns on the other hand, failed to do this when he fought Hagler: Hagler Vs. Hearns

So how do we fight the Reapers then? This isn't Afghanistan or the Persians and the Greeks. This isn't even a fight against Gengis Khan. We aren't fighting a force that wants to conquer us; they want to wipe us out (in essence anyway). They don't need to worry about winning hearts and minds, they don't need to worry about capturing fertile land, they don't need to worry about wasting money or keeping the people back home happy. The Reapers are less of an army and more of a force of nature at this point.

It's like trying to reason with a tidal wave, or a volcano, or an asteroid. It's just a big rock hurtling toward the planet.

You've provided us with some nice motivational anecdotes, but no actual strategy. You haven't refuted any of the points I made.

What is your solution to the fact that the Reapers have every reason to annihilate every settled world in the galaxy? The Reapers can flee indefinitely, we can't. We have worlds we need to protect because we need those worlds to survive. The Reapers don't have this problem.

ubermensch007 wrote...

Take the Collectors for example.The reason why they got so easily slaughtered by Shepard's "Dirty Dozen" is because they were a victim of thier own technology.

No, they were defeated because they lost their technological advantage and couldn't anticipate their foe's moves. Their only ship was out-gunned by the Normandy, their hacking technology was out-done by EDI, and their ground teams were out-done by skilled specialists and the Collectors'/Reapers' own lack of planning. Once the Normandy reached th base the Collectors were in trouble because the base was never designed to withstand an assault.

Their technology was good, but it was being used against them. EDI only exists because Sovereign was defeated. The Normandy only got through the relay because 37 million years ago somebody else killed another Reaper. Sovereign only failed because by chance or luck the Protheans managed to hide away the right people in the perfect position to interfere in the Reapers' plans.

The problem is, the Reapers are a lot more numerous than the Collectors. The Collectors were one base and one ship. They could only hit one colony at a time. The Reapers are entire legions of powerful machines and if only a fraction of them are as potent as Sovereign then they can very quickly decimate every fleet in the galaxy.

The Reapers are not reliant on technology, they are technology.

ubermensch007 wrote...

I have a question - How do you make the Reaper Fleet useless? By going 'deep' underground.

What does that accomplish? The Reapers can wait forever. After what happened last time I guarantee you they will re-engineer their trap. They will hunt you down and kill you. The threat won't leave unless you destroy it.

ubermensch007 wrote...

But even if some choose to remain on the surface they can be defended from orbital bombardment by what is spoken of in the Cerberus Daily News Report.

Doesn't work. You know why? I can always shoot around the barrier. So you put up a barrier over New York. All I have to do is drop an asteroid in the Atlantic ocean and the resulting tidal wave will wipe out the city.  If I drop a big enough rock onto the planet the entire crust will be turned molten.

Saphra, I think what we have here is two different views of what qualifies as success or victory against the Reapers...There are two ways to go about revenge.You either believe that --
"Revenge is a dish best served cold." :devil:Or you believe that,"The Best Revenge Is Success." :innocent:

Perhaps no people on this Earth have had to wrestle with this as the Jewish people have.The Naz!'s sought to wipe the Jews off the face of the Earth - but they failed... Not only did the children of Abraham survive the Holocaust, they thrive to this day -- They have their own homeland once more and the means and will to defend themselves if need be.

"The way we defeat the Reapers: Is by not giving them what they want." What they want above all else is our ANNIHILATION...Now don't get me wrong, I would desire nothing more than to neutralize the Reaper threat for ALL-TIME.To Avenge all the races that they brought to an end in this galaxy.But as I state in my threads;
A Sobering Thought About Mass Effect 3... &  How Long Should the Reaper War Last? That is a Tall Order indeed.

Modifié par ubermensch007, 20 juillet 2011 - 07:11 .

[BentOrgy]

I think its incredible; for a thread to have a subject with so much potential, go practically nowhere.... For four months.

Boggles the braincase.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 20 juillet 2011 - 07:39 .

[Arcadia364]

BentOrgy wrote...

I think its incredible; for a thread to have a subject with so much potential, go practically nowhere.... For four months.

Boggles the braincase.

I hope some eggheads at bioware have better ideas than we do

[BentOrgy]

Arcadia364 wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

I think its incredible; for a thread to have a subject with so much potential, go practically nowhere.... For four months.

Boggles the braincase.

I hope some eggheads at bioware have better ideas than we do

I think some of those eggheads have been hardboiled.

Case in point;

Mass Effect 1, Sovereign: "Organic life is a mutation, an accident." "We have no beggining, and we have no end, we simply, are."

Mass Effect 2, Harbinger (AKA, wannabe Sovereign.): "We are your genetic destiny." "I'm a fairy."

Okay, so that last quote was a lie. But Sovvy still makes it pretty clear that they regard organics as freak accidents, and synthetic life basically came first. But then in ME2 we hear how Reapers are synthetic AND organic.

Contradiction? Yeah, I'm thinkin' so.

[ubermensch007]

Saphra Deden wrote...

ubermensch007 wrote...

Saphra, I think what we have here is two different views of what qualifies as success or victory against the Reapers...

My definition is very simple: the Reapers are all destroyed before we are.  

What is your definition?

As for the rest, you are again just giving a motivational speech but not providing any actual means or ideas that could save us.

"Don't let the Reapers annihilate us" is not very helpful. It's even worse than "We fight or we die."

I want a war plan, not a feel good speech.




I'll check out your threads later and get back to you.

Saphra - Saphra - Saphra... Contrary to what some may believe.Every problem does not have a solution.In point of fact it has been said that,"Some problems can be solved, others only mitagated."

mitigated past participle, past tense of mit·i·gate (Verb)1. Make less severe, serious, or painful: "he wanted to mitigate misery in the world".2. Lessen the gravity of (an offense or mistake).

Mistakes have been made.The Council backsliding on thier pledge to drive the Reapers back into dark space.Two valuble years were waisted. Post-Battle of the Citadel 2183-2185.

You said on the previous page: The Reapers are less of an army and more of a force of nature at this point.

I agree with you here wholeheartedly.So when you say,"I want a war plan." That comes across to me like someone saying,"Tell me how to fight a hurricane?!" Err... You don't fight a hurricane kid.Ya get the HELL OUT OF ITS WAY, if you know what's good for you..." <_<

There is another saying that is of note here,"You've won the battle, but we will win the War..."

Commander Shepard and Co. have won many Great Battles against the Reapers.The Virmire Mission, Noveria (If you saved the Racchni Queen) the Battle of the Citadel, The Suicide Mission and Arrival...But can they WIN the War? That's the ultimate question of Mass Effect 3. And from what we see and hear Shepard and Anderson say in
E3 Mass Effect 3 Demo

Adimaral Anderson: God... How do you stop something so powerful!?!

Commander Shepard: I don't know?

The chances of "your definition of success" "the Reapers are all destroyed before we are." Looks Highly Unlikely, Highly Improbable and Highly Delusional This is no time for Shepard and Co. to be looking for some "lost crypts of beings of light" bullsh!t.The Reapers are Here! The Invasion has Begun! Deden you want a "war plan" Well to quote
Shepard: "No plan survives contact with the enemy." (Said to Thane Krios during his 'loyalty mission') I could tell you of an idea I have which involves hacking into the Citadel Mass Relay Network along with Corrupting the Reaper IFF and finding a way to link the Omega 4-Relay  to it and lure the Reapers into using a Mass Relay and having them be taken out by the Galactic Core.But that's a long-shot.

I can't tell you,"How to defeat the Reapers."

I can tell you,"How to survive a Reaper Invasion."

Which I have done in my first post in this thread.And as far as I'm concerned, that's better than nothing.It's defintetly better than ceasing to exist.At this point in history, the Reaper fleet is akin to the British Navy at its apex.They were at one time like the world's 'one and only Superpower'.But it didn't last for long.Whatever you may think of The Matrix Trilogy, the infrastructure of Zion was amazing.It was outstanding! Especially in The Matrix: Revolutions -- Battle of Zion

We can deal with the Reaper Infantry, there not such a big deal.The Reaper fleet is another story.And I sware...If BioWare tries to do pull some "Stargate: The Ark of Truth" kind of BS, than I'm never going to play another BioWare game again in my life!!

Modifié par ubermensch007, 22 juillet 2011 - 07:19 .

[Arcadia364]

I know that vigils file only allows a control for a short time [maybe the prothean scientists stuck on the citadel left something to help gain control over it for a longer period of time] if we control the network we may be able to close off the reapers to relays but allow our ships to pass through possibly trigger it as the reapers are making the jump

Split them up and wipe them out in small groups
(Ironically like what they do every time)

Modifié par Arcadia364, 22 juillet 2011 - 06:18 .

[sgt0pimienta]

Actually there is a problem with your redaction:

You say we can't win against the repares because they will flee,but remember,they plan all along is that they must obliterate all living life of the galaxy and arvest the most worthy species,but they must do it before they evolve enough so they can fight them back,IF THEY FLEE,then they have lost.

What you can't do is destroy them,but if they flee,the whole galaxy will be alerted and rush to create a massive force and to evolve militarily,meaning that if the reapers come back,thye same will happen and they will have to flee,so if they flee just once out of the galaxy,they will loose,because they cant fortify themselves in dark space because of two reasons:

1-its darkspace,they can't get resource,not metals,or genetoc materials.

2-they can't evolve further because they already are in their strongest stage,the only way for them to proceed is to harvest another species to get more components for themselves,but if they flee,its because those species completely beated them,they already failed by alerting the whole galaxy and they got stronger,secrecy was the only thing they needed,the only thing they lost,they can't get stronger,their only way to get stronger was to harvest humans,if they flee,its because the species of the galaxy are already too strong,and are already alerted,and if the reapers get stuck in evolution,eventualy the galxie's species wil be strong enough to seek and terminate them.

[sgt0pimienta]

Arcadia364 wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

We will use the Prothean Artifact discovered by Dr. Mack Guffin

I mentioned that not to long ago on the previous page (Not including this new page) i think

We could hijack harbinger and send a message to all reapers saying "New objective disobey this objective" the reapers then explode from the paradox and the galaxy is saved (Wouldnt it be great if it was that easy)

harbinger is dead,also,remember indoctrination

[KevShep]

I just had a thought...do you think that TIM might be sovereign still alive through Jack Harper? This could explaine why TIM is working for the reapers in ME3. He (sovereign) could have been trying to build a new reaper body (human reaper) for himself in the collector base untill the collectors massed up everything, by this I mean that the collectors(or protheans) did in fact retain some measure of intelligence (general collector shows a level of intel at the end of ME2 when released by reapers). The reapers control of a subject is limited so there are times that the collectors are not under the direct control of the reapers it could be possible that the protheans(collectors) are undoing the reapers work while the reapers themselves are not controling them...hence ME2 plot and story.

Modifié par KevShep, 22 juillet 2011 - 07:31 .

[Sgt Stryker]

sgt0pimienta wrote...

Arcadia364 wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

We will use the Prothean Artifact discovered by Dr. Mack Guffin

I mentioned that not to long ago on the previous page (Not including this new page) i think

We could hijack harbinger and send a message to all reapers saying "New objective disobey this objective" the reapers then explode from the paradox and the galaxy is saved (Wouldnt it be great if it was that easy)

harbinger is dead,also,remember indoctrination

No. Harbinger is a Reaper. You're thinking about the Collector General.

[Arcadia364]

KevShep wrote...

I just had a thought...do you think that TIM might be sovereign still alive through Jack Harper? This could explaine why TIM is working for the reapers in ME3. He (sovereign) could have been trying to build a new reaper body (human reaper) for himself in the collector base untill the collectors massed up everything, by this I mean that the collectors(or protheans) did in fact retain some measure of intelligence (general collector shows a level of intel at the end of ME2 when released by reapers). The reapers control of a subject is limited so there are times that the collectors are not under the direct control of the reapers it could be possible that the protheans(collectors) are undoing the reapers work while the reapers themselves are not controling them...hence ME2 plot and story.

Sovereign lives on through EDI Also Mordin said how they had no freedom, no art, no soul all replaced by tech they are just slaves... and im going to love to see why illusive man would betray his biggest goal for the reapers im hoping its not the usual "indocrination" reason

I think this plan is mildly feasible:
if we control the network we may be able to close off the reapers to relays but allow our ships to pass through as TIM said our best chance is to turn the reapers own resources against them so we Split them up and wipe them out in small groups (Ironically like what they do with their harvests)

Modifié par Arcadia364, 22 juillet 2011 - 08:43 .

[KevShep]

Arcadia364 wrote...

Sovereign lives on through EDI Also Mordin said how they had no freedom, no art, no soul all replaced by tech they are just slaves... and im going to love to see why illusive man would betray his biggest goal for the reapers im hoping its not the usual "indocrination" reason

I think this plan is mildly feasible:
if we control the network we may be able to close off the reapers to relays but allow our ships to pass through as TIM said our best chance is to turn the reapers own resources against them so we Split them up and wipe them out in small groups (Ironically like what they do with their harvests)

I do not think at all that cerberus is indoctrinated...at least TIM is not (bioware basically said the major spoiler in ME3 revolves around why cerberus is really working for the reapers). sarens eyes look the same as TIMs eyes, sovereign  inplanted himself within saren in ME1 and when shepard killed the body of saren his reaper ship was off line meaning that sovereign was not on board he was in saren. It might be possible that sovereign was also in Jack Harper and sovereign  survived the battle but his reaper shell did not.

I do think that your right about the relays. It was the reapers advantage to cut off every world and since they do not have control of the citedal (we do) then we might be able to cut them off.

[Arcadia364]

After looking at the forum i think the following are the best solutions:
- Disable/Bypass reaper sheilds
- Cut off their relay access but allow our ships through
- Disrupt their communications
- Destroy a relay in a system they are in

Also there is the anti reaper algorythms EDI has but i dont think EDI can match a dozen reapers in a hacking contest The issue with all of these solutions is that they require time to execute and the reapers arent going to give us any time

Modifié par Arcadia364, 23 juillet 2011 - 08:22 .

[KevShep]

Arcadia364 wrote...

After looking at the forum i think the following are the best solutions:
- Disable/Bypass reaper sheilds
- Cut off their relay access but allow our ships through
- Disrupt their communications
- Destroy a relay in a system they are in

Also there is the anti reaper algorythms EDI has but i dont think EDI can match a dozen reapers in a hacking contest The issue with all of these solutions is that they require time to execute and the reapers arent going to give us any time

I like the disable/bypass sheild solution. since we get our a** kicked at ship to reaper battles I think we should use fast small shuttles(full of soldiers) and swarm them, kill it with bug bites! Once inside set off EMP's...there should be no protection(or very little) for the reaper from an EMP inside. If not the EMP then just fight our way through to get to the reaper core like in ME2.

Modifié par KevShep, 23 juillet 2011 - 10:17 .

[BentOrgy]

KevShep wrote...

Arcadia364 wrote...

After looking at the forum i think the following are the best solutions:
- Disable/Bypass reaper sheilds
- Cut off their relay access but allow our ships through
- Disrupt their communications
- Destroy a relay in a system they are in

Also there is the anti reaper algorythms EDI has but i dont think EDI can match a dozen reapers in a hacking contest The issue with all of these solutions is that they require time to execute and the reapers arent going to give us any time

I like the disable/bypass sheild solution. since we get our a** kicked at ship to reaper battles I think we should use fast small shuttles(full of soldiers) and swarm them, kill it with bug bites! Once inside set off EMP's...there should be no protection(or very little) for the reaper from an EMP inside. If not the EMP then just fight our way through to get to the reaper core like in ME2.

The only problem I see with this is the amount of biting we'd have to do; God knows how many Reapers there are, hundreds, thousands, millions? We supposed to infiltrate them all?

Not to mention how we'd bypass the Reaper's shield/defense systems to get inside in the first place.

Not to be a downer, but I just can't see it being feasible. Against a few hundred, maybe. Maaaaaybe. But not against as many as we're talking.

[Arcadia364]

BentOrgy wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Arcadia364 wrote...

After looking at the forum i think the following are the best solutions:
- Disable/Bypass reaper sheilds
- Cut off their relay access but allow our ships through
- Disrupt their communications
- Destroy a relay in a system they are in

Also there is the anti reaper algorythms EDI has but i dont think EDI can match a dozen reapers in a hacking contest The issue with all of these solutions is that they require time to execute and the reapers arent going to give us any time

I like the disable/bypass sheild solution. since we get our a** kicked at ship to reaper battles I think we should use fast small shuttles(full of soldiers) and swarm them, kill it with bug bites! Once inside set off EMP's...there should be no protection(or very little) for the reaper from an EMP inside. If not the EMP then just fight our way through to get to the reaper core like in ME2.

The only problem I see with this is the amount of biting we'd have to do; God knows how many Reapers there are, hundreds, thousands, millions? We supposed to infiltrate them all?

Not to mention how we'd bypass the Reaper's shield/defense systems to get inside in the first place.

Not to be a downer, but I just can't see it being feasible. Against a few hundred, maybe. Maaaaaybe. But not against as many as we're talking.

The reapers are not full machines but organic and machine together EMP would not have much effect i would imagine
Also i figured that any one of these would fail on their own i thought a combination of them could severely cripple the reapers

[BentOrgy]

Arcadia364 wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Arcadia364 wrote...

After looking at the forum i think the following are the best solutions:
- Disable/Bypass reaper sheilds
- Cut off their relay access but allow our ships through
- Disrupt their communications
- Destroy a relay in a system they are in

Also there is the anti reaper algorythms EDI has but i dont think EDI can match a dozen reapers in a hacking contest The issue with all of these solutions is that they require time to execute and the reapers arent going to give us any time

I like the disable/bypass sheild solution. since we get our a** kicked at ship to reaper battles I think we should use fast small shuttles(full of soldiers) and swarm them, kill it with bug bites! Once inside set off EMP's...there should be no protection(or very little) for the reaper from an EMP inside. If not the EMP then just fight our way through to get to the reaper core like in ME2.

The only problem I see with this is the amount of biting we'd have to do; God knows how many Reapers there are, hundreds, thousands, millions? We supposed to infiltrate them all?

Not to mention how we'd bypass the Reaper's shield/defense systems to get inside in the first place.

Not to be a downer, but I just can't see it being feasible. Against a few hundred, maybe. Maaaaaybe. But not against as many as we're talking.

The reapers are not full machines but organic and machine together EMP would not have much effect i would imagine
Also i figured that any one of these would fail on their own i thought a combination of them could severely cripple the reapers

I don't mean to sound like an ass; but grammar is everybody's friend, your run-on sentences are hard to read.

And while Reapers are apparantly hybrids (I say apparantly, because I have serious doubts they were at first when Drew Karpyshyn was writing the story.) they are still A.I driven constructs, and killing Saren severely crippled Sovereign, which tells me that they are machine enough that an EMP would hurt them the same as if they were completely machanical.

In the end you're right, as many here and elsewhere have said; there's really no one tactic that could take out the Reapers. Barring some ill conceived Deus Ex Machina that totally crushes the story beyond all repair.

Which I fear, in light of this situation, seems all too likely.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 23 juillet 2011 - 02:42 .

[Zaxares]

Isn't it obvious how we'll defeat the Reapers?

Harbinger: "Shepard, the end is come!"
Shepard: [Persuade] "Can't we all just along?"
Harbinger: "We have been moved by the sincerity and hitherto undiscovered wisdom of your words. We, the Reapers, shall renounce our violent, warmongering ways and integrate into the galaxy."

Roll credits.

Obviously, this is only possible if Shepard maxes out his or her Persuade/Intimidate skill. If you fail to max this skill, it is impossible to win ME3.

[KevShep]

BentOrgy wrote...
I don't mean to sound like an ass; but grammar is everybody's friend, your run-on sentences are hard to read.

And while Reapers are apparantly hybrids (I say apparantly, because I have serious doubts they were at first when Drew Karpyshyn was writing the story.) they are still A.I driven constructs, and killing Saren severely crippled Sovereign, which tells me that they are machine enough that an EMP would hurt them the same as if they were completely machanical.

In the end you're right, as many here and elsewhere have said; there's really no one tactic that could take out the Reapers. Barring some ill conceived Deus Ex Machina that totally crushes the story beyond all repair.

Which I fear, in light of this situation, seems all too likely.

Drew had the "main" story drawn out before the first book. the fact that there hiybrids is part of the main plot and somthing of a mystery about why and what the reapers true purpose is.

Since great thought was put into the story I doubt that Drew or anybody in bioware would make a kill all reapers button, there is going to be a diverse way of ending the war, they have promised it was going to be an amazing game.

[KevShep]

Arcadia364 wrote...

The reapers are not full machines but organic and machine together EMP would not have much effect i would imagine
Also i figured that any one of these would fail on their own i thought a combination of them could severely cripple the reapers

The reapers organic side needs the synthetic hardware if you kill one then the other cant live...that is the point of a hybrid. Most likely the reapers original form was an organic and they tried to be immortal by infusing with synthetics to become the reapers. 

[KevShep]

BentOrgy wrote...

The only problem I see with this is the amount of biting we'd have to do; God knows how many Reapers there are, hundreds, thousands, millions? We supposed to infiltrate them all?

Not to mention how we'd bypass the Reaper's shield/defense systems to get inside in the first place.

Not to be a downer, but I just can't see it being feasible. Against a few hundred, maybe. Maaaaaybe. But not against as many as we're talking.

We dont take on the reaper when there in mass numbers. We divide and conqure....weaken there numbers. Single reapers out and swarm them,  they cant stop all of us swarming it. Since we control the citedal we can shut down the relays and only let friendlys in and out. This is what the reapers do to unsuspecting races during cycles.

Bypass a sheild is easy. all it is is a magnetic field that changes the direction of a projectile or dispenses an energy weapon. Sheilds do...not...act as a wall that stop things dead in its tracks. There are ways you can fly through another ships magnetic field without being thrown. In real life this is how it can be done if you can create a powerfull enough field. However in ME not only is a sheild a magnetic field but it also uses mass effect fields which use dark energy (something that cant actually be harnest in real life). I dont know why bioware makes the sheilds in ME to use mass effect fields when a powerfull enough magnetic field will do just fine.

Modifié par KevShep, 24 juillet 2011 - 05:34 .